Flo SSR 2023

[FlorencedeZ.]

Hi Jim,
I am a bit in doubt if I picked a good location for my next SSR.
As you know I love to travel for my SSR and so far the years turned out pretty good.
For 2023 my SSR Venus line slices right through Portugal, east of Albufeira and goes north towards Almodovar and further.
Moon is also angular but a bit wider.
I also have a partile SSR Moon conjunct Neptune and t.Saturn makes a direct Midpoint with t.Neptune.
Would you altogether advise me to go there or avoid and pick a location where Moon and Neptune are further away from the angles?
Thank you very much in advance.
Regards, Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

Happy to help, Flo. Give me a chance to look at it and get back to you. (SF astromapping is broken on my computer at work, but works fine on the computer at home.)

On first impression (just calculating for birth place and looking on a 90° wheel) the main things to miss are transiting Mars on your MC and Neptune on your Moon. Mars might make Jupiter hard to match, but transiting Venus seems good. (Too bad Moon doesn't side even closer to it geographically.) Focus is probably for Venus - which seems to be the way you've gone.

It MIGHT be as simple as optimizing the Venus to let it overwhelm everything else. I'm not crazy about Moon-Moon-Neptune so closely together and moderately foreground, though in a pinch I'd pick Venus within 5-10' of an angle to bypass it.

Are you able to extend down into Africa? Or is Europe the limit? If Africa is OK, I'll see where things reach that far south.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thank you Jim.
Yes, I prefer to stay in Europe.
Regards, Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

The only line that seems ideal is transiting Venus. We can expand the search by considering all available angles Venus could be on.

You're right that the primary line - Vens on Descendant - cuts up he middle of Portugal, from about Albufeira upward. That also brings a close Moon-Neptune mundane conjunction, mundane square natal Moon, all about 4-6° from the angles. While Moon-Neptune isn't the worst influence, I've lived through its transit the last few years and wouldn't recommend it if you can avoid it. I'd assume the EXACT Venus would overwhelm this, but the longitude of Albufeira etc. also puts SSR Moon exactly on EP in RA, highlighting its aspects more.

The Venus setting line also touches England's west coast (Wales) in two spots, the tips at Penzance and Milton Haven (and, of course, adjacent areas). These are closer to a Saturn rising line, though AND gets the Neptune square - a really unpleasant spot to have your birthday, I imagine, so let's skip that.

Contacts to EP/WP in RA don't show in Solar Fire, but we can calculate them pretty easily. Transiting Venus' RA is 166°43'. This is on WP when MC is 90° later, 256°43'. at Albufeira (which I have up in front of me, 8W13), RAMC is 261°10', so we have to reduce this by 4°27'. "Reduce" means go west, so 4°27 west of 8W13 is 12W40 which is mostly in the middle of nowhere - halfway between Faroe Island and the eastern tip of Iceland, or some islands just off the Morrocco coast, or farther south in areas you've said you do not want to travel.

That brings us back to the Venus on Descendant line. Glancing at the astromap, the main calculation that may help: It's the question of where SSR Moon is exactly angular. With RA 351°00', it is on MC when RAMC is 90° earlier, or 261°00'. At Albufeira (using 8W13), RAMC is 261°10' - almost exactly there - so the one way I see to improve this is to keep Venus as close to the angle as possible while inching Moon away from EP. (This is hard. The areas are quite similar.) Since the Venus line inclines northeast through Portugal, going as far north as possible takes it most off the Moon's peak line of longitude.

We can get it almost 1° away at Chaves, Portugal. Remember that about 1° from EP is about as strong as 3° off the horizon (i.e., end of Class 1 angularity), although the current iteration of TMSA scores it a little higher (Mike has adjusted that in unreleased versions).

The TMSA coordinates for Chaves (41N44, 7W28) gives transiting Venus 0°03' from Descendant and t Moon 0°55' off EP-a. The other transiting planets foreground are Saturn and Neptune - not a great mix taken together, and perhaps with some discomfort to pay, but Venus is quite strong. Neptune to Moon-Neptune remains foreground, but moderately so. You have all these factors in Albufeira, at the southern end of the line, except with transiting Moon being much closer (10'), so I think the northern end of the line is better. Given all of these, if the choice were mine I'd probably pick Chaves (especially if it interested me for its own sake) and count on Venus to make it far better than it would be otherwise.

Here is the full breakdown for Chaves:

r Pluto on Dsc -8°36'
t Neptune on Asc -5°14'
r Moon on MC -4°50'
-----------------------------
t Venus on Dsc +0°03'
t Moon on EP-a +0°50'
t Saturn on Asc +5°10'
r Uranus on Dsc +8°27'

-- t Neptune sq r Moon 0°24'
-- t Moon-Neptune co 1°04' M
-- t Moon sq r Moon 1°40' M


Here is the full breakdown for Albufeira:

r Pluto on Dsc -7°34'
t Neptune on Asc -5°52'
r Moon on MC -5°30'
-----------------------------
t Venus on Dsc +0°05'
t Moon on EP-a +0°10'
t Saturn on Asc +6°23'
r Uranus on Dsc +9°57'

-- t Neptune sq r Moon 0°22'
-- t Moon sq r Moon 1°14' M
-- t Moon-Neptune co 1°36' M
-- t Neptune op r Pluto 1°42 M
-- r Moon-Pluto sq 2°04' M

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thank you very much Jim for all your calculations.
This is wonderful. And helps in making decisions of where to travel.
Chavez sounds great. The only thing is, we have been to this area quite a few times and it is a little hard to get there as it is a remote town.
You mentioned Maroccan islands off the coast. Do you mean the spanish Canary islands or Santa Cruz? Those are easy to get to and the weather is still so good in October.
However, I see that t. Saturn gets much closer there so indeed Chavez is first choice. I will think about it for a while.
Thanks again, regards, Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

You mentioned Maroccan islands off the coast. Do you mean the spanish Canary islands or Santa Cruz? Those are easy to get to and the weather is still so good in October.

Let's see... I wrote:

...12W40 which is mostly in the middle of nowhere... or some islands just off the Morrocco coast

That is the approximate longitude of Arrecife in the Canaries. It's not exactly at the target longitude, but close: 28N57'45", 13E33'02" according to Wikipedia. TMSA uses nearly the same coordinates under Arrecife, Espana. Saturn is a bit closer but, more importantly, Venus is backed of just a little. Your Pluto is actually strongest. Probably not the vest idea, though Moon-Neptune (while still in orb, as they will be everywhere) is no longer foreground (Moon is; Neptune is not). Because of their position on WP in RA, it highlights a Venus transit to your Pluto that isn't there for the Venus Descendant line (I'd missed that before when I was trying for that angle). I think it looks bitter-sweet at best, nd perhaps more separation or loss leaning. Here's the breakdown:

t Moon on EP -0°55'
t Venus on WP-a -0°54'
----------------------------
r Pluto on WP-a +0°50'
t Saturn on Asc +5°46'
r Urans on Dsc +8°33'

t Moon op r Pluto 1°09' M
t Moon-Neptune co 2°33 M

t Venus co r Pluto 1°47' in RA

[FlorencedeZ.]

Jim may I bother you again?
Maybe, just maybe we skip Chavez and look for something more sunny on the beach.
If we were to go intercontinental would West of Antalya in Turkey at Demre another good Venus line option?
Other planets are getting close too but as you said if Venus can override it should be fine.
Just looking at other options as well.
Regards, Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

Ooh, that's interesting. Taking Antalya specifically, here are the foreground planets:

t Uranus on Asc -4°21'
r Mercury on Dsc -2°52'
t Pluto on MC -1°00'
----------------------------
t Jupiter on Asc +0°56'
r Sun on WP-a +0°17'
r Neptune on Dsc +1°57'
t Mars +3°30'
t Mercury on Dsc +5°28'

Jupiter and Sun are almost exact. I don't mind the Pluto at all (in fact, I'm risking - with just a little trepedition - a Mars-Pluto to Jupiter with double Jupiters for my next SSR). Natal Neptune is not a concern for a beach get-away, though I do wonder about putting transiting Mars conjunct natal Neptune on angles. There is no Venus, but making the Jupiter even more exact could seal the deal as a positive outcome.

I'm more concerned with mundane Moon aspects you pick up, so this isn't perfect. Don't be afraid of these but don't take them lightly. Here are the Moon and foreground aspects:

t Moon-Neptune co 2°23' M
t Moon op r Pluto 2°29' M
t Moon sq r Saturn 2°32' M

t Mars co r Neptune 0°17'
t Jupiter op r Neptune 1°01' M
t Uranus op r Mercury 1°29' M
t Pluto sq r Mercury 1°52' M
t Jupiter-Pluto sq 1°56' M
t Mercury-Mars co 1°59' M
t Mercury co r Sun 2°08' M
t Mars-Jupiter op 2°29'
t Pluto sq r Mercury 2°57' M

As I lay this out, it makes me nervous. The foreground Mars to Neptune plus the Moon aspects alone make me nervous, and then there are various ways the Jupiter aspects can come out that are unpleasant (and some that are pleasant). Your call, of course - I'm just doing the math. I think I wouldn't do it if I had an alternative.

If you do pick the area, it looks like the Jupiter line is closer in Kaleucagiz or Demre, though I haven't yet found coordinates for those cities to check - just going by the map. If you pick the area I can dig more carefully.

[Jim Eshelman]

OTOH what do you think of the northern edge of that landmass - say, Bandirma? I'm still not sure it's the best place you can find, but I do think it's better.

You get Jupiter 0°05' from Ascendant. Mars on your Neptune has your Neptune within a degree of the angle and Mars about two and a half degrees away - definitely strong, but not like the Jupiter. Moon aspects are bad - instead of transiting Neptune and natal Saturn-Pluto you get transiting Neptune and natal Mars-Saturn. -- I'm torn and I guess ethically have to say that those Moon aspects are just too threatening despite the Jupiter, but I wanted to give you another option. (Mars to Neptune is worse since - off the angles - you also have Neptune to natal Mars).

Istanbul is about the same, with transiting Jupiter still the closest but now out to 0°53'. Moon aspects are the same. For that matter, Bucharest (Jupiter 3' from the angle) keeps the same Moon aspects (Neptune + Mars-Saturn): I was hoping it might lose them.

I know you wanted the beach, but if you go as far north as Warsaw you lose the Moon-Saturn and keep the Jupiter. You still have Moon-Neptune (everywhere) and Moon to natal Mars, but the Saturn is gone. It's just that keeping transiting Jupiter on an angle also keeps your Neptune (transited by Mars near an angle).

[Jim Eshelman]

What do you think of Tbilisi in eastern Georgia? I recently spent an evening with some Georgians who said that, while the coastal stretch is regrettably occupied at the moment, none of that extends to the eastern two-thirds of the country, which is beautiful, safe, and inviting. (This is also the heart of Georgia's renewed wine industry, a tradition that goes back over 6,000 years. We were tasting Georgian wines that evening.)

For Tbilisi you keep the Jupiter, still have Moon-Pluto but lose all Moon aspects to natal malefics. I think you lose the Mars-Neptune, i.e., I don't count planets square MC farther than 2°, which makes both transiting Mars and natal Neptune drop from the foreground. (This is how I would read it for myself.) This gives the following chart for Tibilisi. (Exact location could be fine-tuned if you pick the area, but the Jupiter is so close it's probably exact somewhere on the outskirts of town, or close enough as it is.)

r Pluto on N -2°00'
---------------------------
t Jupiter on EP +0°04'
r Venus on Dsc +2°22'
t Uranus on Asc +8°20'

t Moon op r Pluto 2°28' M
t Moon-Neptune co 2°47' M

[FlorencedeZ.]

This is awesome Jim, thank you very much.
Georgia sounds very appealing, it is very beautiful indeed, wow. (and the wines )
People don't really go there from here but what a chance.
I have been looking it up, it is not very easy to get there but doable.
The choice will then be between Chavez and Tbilisi.
The thing is, since I travel every year for my SSR during annual leave, I have only picked Jupiter lines and it is nice to do a little change this year. However, this one is tricky.
I would like to find the exact EP line and will consult astro relocation. Solar Fire doesn't show it.
Many thanks for your time,
regards, Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

I would like to find the exact EP line and will consult astro relocation. Solar Fire doesn't show it.

This is the Eastpoint in longitude - not EP-a (the EP in RA). In other words, it's just the square to Midheaven, which SF does show.

You just have to get the time of the SSR right. TMSA is more accurate than SF and gives October 25, 2023, 15:42:36 UT. Also, I don't know how SF's index lists the nation of Georgia (it keeps giving me the U.S. state and resists finding Tbilisi in any form), so you may want to put in the local coordinates: I used 41N41'36" 44E48'05".

With Jupiter at 16°35' Jupiter, MC is 16°39' Capricorn. For a perfect contact, MC needs to be 0°04' earlier. Reducing MC means going west. For this small of a difference, the change in celestial longitude on MC will be the same as the change in RA, so you need to go 0°04' west of 44E48, or anyplace at 44E44. (Recalculating the SSR in TMSA for longitude 44E44 indeed gives MC 16°35' Capricorn.)

Is Armenia easier to get to for travel purposes? Looking at the map, Ayrum is precisely in the line (but calculation gives it less close). However, Tbilisi a major city with traffic in and out of it frequently, and you're only looking at a few miles in any case. Here is a map showing your Jupiter and Mars lines - notice that the Mars line does through the eastern third that is under Russian occupation (I'm told the boundaries are pretty tightly drawn) and the Jupiter line is in the east. (The map is puzzling because small differences don't quite match what the map shows, as if the map is slightly wrong.)

Tbilisi 2.png

[Jim Eshelman]

Finally, here is the TMSA output for Tbilisi, adjust 0°04' in longitude to move it slightly west and get an exact hit. MC is 16°35' Capricorn, Asc 11°19' Taurus. (I've manually removed transiting Mars and natal Neptune, which would otherwise have been scooped into the 3° orb for square MC - which is too wide.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ju 16Ar35'26"  1S25 - 7'57"  39°41' 13N59  82°19' +12°31' 347°22' 100% E 0°0'
Ur 26Ar45'48"  0S19 - 2'18"  49°30' 17N55  73° 2' + 7°56' 351°43'  82% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ve  9Sc13' 0"  1S 2 + 1°13' 242° 6' 22S 1 241°55' - 2° 2' 177°41'  99% D 
Pl 13Le23'18" 12N23 + 1'21" 164°59' 19N50 328°36' -22°10' 141°59'  97% N 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects    
tMo co tNe  2°47' 85% M
---------------------- 
tMo op rPl  2°29' 88% M

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thank you again Jim for these indepth calculations and true, I got that mixed up as Eastpoint is in longitude. (square MC)
I manually inserted the coordinates for Tbilisi in SF and the exact line, a few miles West of Tbilisi slices through the Tbilisi East Point shopping Mall in the direction of Vaziani. That should be no problem at all as you say.
Getting there will be okay, however the flights are not direct and at inconvenient hours. But you know, I am happy, this sounds fun and really nice.
All the SSR's up to now have brought me to places I would never have thought of going to, it's so exciting.
Moon-Neptune has been following me around incl. the current SSR and will continue to do so in the following years as well.
My mother is taking all my attention and am happy to do so, she is 86 years now and with her severe Parkinson's it is quite amazing she has made it this far. (she has a partile Moon-Venus btw)
I imagine this is is the Moon Neptune symbolism.
Thanks again, also for the TMSA calculations.
Regards, Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

Getting there will be okay, however the flights are not direct and at inconvenient hours. But you know, I am happy, this sounds fun and really nice.

We'll want to hear all about it. Marion and I are now quite captivated with Georgia (and, to a lesser extent, Armenia) but who knows if we will ever do it - getting out of North America is much more complicated and costly than if one is already in Europe or Asia (and there are so many other places in Europe at a higher priority if we are able to make the leap). So... we want to hear

All the SSR's up to now have brought me to places I would never have thought of going to, it's so exciting.

That's so true. I'd have never picked several places we've gone were it not for chasing the intersection of the return chart lines. And one at least has a great birthday under beautiful circumstances, which colors that place in memory forever I think. (We're currently planning a third trip to Memphis after such an extraordinary time there the first two times - as a possible side trip ahead of my birthday, which needs to be on the West Coast this year.)

My mother is taking all my attention and am happy to do so, she is 86 years now and with her severe Parkinson's it is quite amazing she has made it this far. (she has a partile Moon-Venus btw)

This does sound like a Moon-Neptune experience.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Will do Jim. I also hear such great stories about Georgia, my collegue has just been there and she spoke so highly about it.
You are right about travelling. For us it's the other way, where you live is quite far for us. And we love it so much. You have such good weather.
Making a stop over in Europe could hopefully be materialized one day for you and Marion, that would be lovely.
Regards, Flo

[FlorencedeZ.]

You just have to get the time of the SSR right. TMSA is more accurate than SF and gives October 25, 2023, 15:42:36 UT. Also, I don't know how SF's index lists the nation of Georgia (it keeps giving me the U.S. state and resists finding Tbilisi in any form), so you may want to put in the local coordinates: I used 41N41'36" 44E48'05".

Jim, would you know what the local time will be in Tbilisi when my SSR starts? I am not sure how to convert 15:42:36 UT.

[Jim Eshelman]

You just have to get the time of the SSR right. TMSA is more accurate than SF and gives October 25, 2023, 15:42:36 UT. Also, I don't know how SF's index lists the nation of Georgia (it keeps giving me the U.S. state and resists finding Tbilisi in any form), so you may want to put in the local coordinates: I used 41N41'36" 44E48'05".

Jim, would you know what the local time will be in Tbilisi when my SSR starts? I am not sure how to convert 15:42:36 UT.

I tried to get that before and it didn't come up quickly. Let's try again.

Q: "What time is it right now in Tbilisi?"
A: 9:38 PM. Here in LA, it is 10:38 AM PDT or 17:38 UT, while in Tbilisi it is 21:38, so they are four hours later than UT at the moment.

Q: "When is Tbilisi on daylight saving or summer time this year?"
A: Tbilisi is in the Georgia Standard Time (GET) time zone, which is 4 hours ahead of UTC1234. Tbilisi does not observe Daylight Saving Time (DST) currently."

So I know it's 15:42:36 UT and think it's 19:42:36 GET.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thank you Jim.
My computer shows that it is now an hour later 10:48PM.
Therefor I got 18:42:36 GET.
These time frames are both good to stick around there, that will not be a problem.
Thanks again.

[Jim Eshelman]

When you're there, I' sure they'll tell you what time it is