LeiLei 2023 SSR

[LeiLei]

My new SSR is approaching & I'm interested in hearing your interpretations. Interpretations only please, relocation isn't an option & I'm kind of against relocating SSR's (or any chart for that matter) unless it's completely spontaneous. I do not care what any of you all do with your own returns.

So for the newest version of TMSA, I have transiting Saturn & Venus (barely) foreground & in opposition 0*23'm. My natal Saturn is the closest 0*38' on AC. No transiting planets aspect my Saturn, however, so I'm not sure how to interpret it (unless you count t.Sedna, which is foreground but the aspect is moderate). Transiting Moon is conjunct my natal Jupiter 1*30' (In RA 0*15'??) but both are deeply background. Also are octiles ever valid in return charts?

The newer version of TMSA has t.Sa at 99% strength while the older version only has it at 93%. If I'm remembering correctly there were plans to go back to the older method of calculating angularity of minor angles, is that true & should I then go by the older version?

So what do you all think? Please do not sugar coat anything, you didn't with my 2022 SSR & it turned out far less severe than believed. In fact it's been a better year than my previous SSR. Thank you.

[Jim Eshelman]

You're right about TMSA currently overvaluing minor angle contacts. To get around that, let's to back to straight orbs listing. I see your SSR as:


r Saturn on Asc +1°05'
t Saturn on WP-a +1°31'
t Venus on Asc +9°21'

t Moon co r Jupiter 1°30'

t Venus-Saturn op 0°23' M

This is a challenging chart. The one "break" you get is that, while Venus opposite Saturn is the only foreground aspect in the chart, the planets are barely foreground (or least, Venus is barely foreground). If I were to drop out Class 3 angularities (a useful trick to get a more compact core idea of a chart), the aspect would disappear.

I think it will appear (especially because it's the only foreground aspect at all) but much less so if it were closer to the angles. If benefics were closely foreground, it might not be noticeable; but with the single strongest feature in the chart being natal Saturn about 1° from Ascendant, the Venus-Saturn will have an easier avenue of expression.

The structure of how these three sets of energies will interweave will probably be something like this: Fundamentally, this is a hard year, with loss and struggle as its chief characteristics. In the end, you'll be find - something in you is able to keep your spirits up - but it likely will magnify your awareness of the gap between what you have and what you want or feel you need. Your own needs for survival, material structuring, and laboring will be foremost. The nature of the sense of loss or absence is likely along Venus-Saturn lines.

(Or something like that.)

The main components of this are:

Enhanced material and self-preservation needs: to acquire, construct, order, conserve, retain, survive (selfish, tenacious, cautious, security minded, territorial). Emphasis on one's own demands and requirements. Old dark emotions reign (doubt, feeling inadequate, skeletons rattling in old closets). Poor health, loss of strength, depression.

Feeling superior (others regard native as an important person or exalted being). Much esteem, high prestige (desire to please, trying to win a popularity contest, entertaining others). Faith in life to treat him/her well (optimism, happy feelings; high expectations characterize the individual).

Difficulty, disappointment, embarrassment, or remorse in social or love matters. Emotional disappointment, spoiled fun, a sense that “the party is over.” Examples include feeling socially inadequate or inferior; loss of allies, friends, or popularity; others coldly refusing one's overtures; loss of someone loved (grief, heartbreak); revulsion of a relationship or wanting to end it; a disappointing blind date; or other heartache, despair, or deeply-felt loss in which love and separation co-exist. A noticeable lack of beauty: in particular, personal attractiveness loses its luster or becomes flawed (disfigured).

[Patrick Machado]

Regarding your upcoming SSR, I concur with the assessment above.

Please do not sugar coat anything, you didn't with my 2022 SSR & it turned out far less severe than believed.

Just as a big maybe, an idea to ponder about and perhaps promptly discard... In your current SSR, transiting Jupiter ties into the Moon (and Mars) via 10°-multiple aspect, with an orb under 10'. I had just mentioned a similar aspect in the thread about my next SSR, though not too seriously. Such aspects (10°-multiple with minute orbs) are valid in nativities. On the other hand, I haven't yet come across a single convincing Moon aspect in a SSR that wasn't a conjunction, opposition, or square.

There's also, of course, the preponderance of concurrent positive SLRs which you had mentioned.

In any case, the upcoming SSR strikes me as easier than the current one.

[Jim Eshelman]

For the convenience of readers, here is the current (2022) chart: A Moon-Mars-Neptune trio to natal Moon, all closely foreground.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Mo 27Aq 1'53"  4S 5 +14° 0' 354°21'  6S53 150°10' +38°52' 301°41' 100% Z 
Ma 27Ta14'17"  0S26 +16'41"  81°38' 22N47  59°53' + 0° 5' 359°55' 100% A 
Ne 28Aq24'19"  1S13 - 1'31" 354°29'  3S43 148°22' +41°44' 300°27' 100% Z 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Mo 28Sc57'24"  5N15 +14° 0' 263°44' 18S 3 241°55' + 4°37' 185°14'  93% D 
Ne 21Sc32'55"  1N25 + 1'17" 255°36' 21S22 244°43' - 3°14' 176°26'  97% D 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects    
tMo op tMe  2° 6' 92% M 
tMo sq tMa  0°12'100%   
tMo co tNe  1°14' 97% M 
tMa sq tNe  1°10' 97%   
----------------------  
tMo sq rMo  1°56' 93%   
tMa op rMo  1°43' 94%   
tNe sq rMo  0°33' 99%

[LeiLei]

The structure of how these three sets of energies will interweave will probably be something like this: Fundamentally, this is a hard year, with loss and struggle as its chief characteristics. In the end, you'll be find - something in you is able to keep your spirits up - but it likely will magnify your awareness of the gap between what you have and what you want or feel you need. Your own needs for survival, material structuring, and laboring will be foremost. The nature of the sense of loss or absence is likely along Venus-Saturn lines.

Thanks Jim. This one is harder for me to figure out. I don't really have much to lose. Due to transportation problems & my own reclusive nature the only human contact I really have is with my son. I only go out in public for errands once a month tops. My only contact with others online is here on the forum & you know how rare that is. I'd be worried about something happening to my son but his 2023 SSR (beginning about 8 days before mine) seems pretty positive. And he's in peak physical health. I'm also in very good physical health other than a little extra weight, not anything to be worried about outside of vanity though. Obviously things happen regardless of health though. Loss of independence & struggle have been a sort of theme of my life for the past 3 years, I'm constantly aware of the gap you speak of on a daily level. If Mars were involved I might be worried that my storage unit may go up in flames & I'd lose the majority of my possessions. But I think I'd be okay, they're just things after all. The last time my natal Saturn was foreground is my 2019 SSR I saved a fair amount of money which kept me going independently for a couple of years before I ended up completely broke & moved in with my son.

So I really have no idea. That's why I asked about octiles in return charts because both Venus & Saturn are aspecting my natal Sun. My Sun is barely middleground though but at least it bridges a connection. My Su/Ju midpoint falls on my Saturn. COSI lists sites this as a negative contact but I wonder if it's not necessarily so. For instance most Mars & Venus transits to my Saturn have been positive. So again I don't know. I'd take some hard work if it meant being able to save some money & just have more power over my own life again. Sorry for the ramble, trying to sort this out.

[Jim Eshelman]

Wasn't there discussion of your son moving away permanently in the near future?

[LeiLei]

Wasn't there discussion of your son moving away permanently in the near future?

It was more about me moving away. I've wanted to move for the last few years. He does too but is much more attached to Morgantown due to work. Plus he's not like me in the sense of constantly uprooting oneself.

[LeiLei]

Regarding your upcoming SSR, I concur with the assessment above.

Please do not sugar coat anything, you didn't with my 2022 SSR & it turned out far less severe than believed.

Just as a big maybe, an idea to ponder about and perhaps promptly discard... In your current SSR, transiting Jupiter ties into the Moon (and Mars) via 10°-multiple aspect, with an orb under 10'. I had just mentioned a similar aspect in the thread about my next SSR, though not too seriously. Such aspects (10°-multiple with minute orbs) are valid in nativities. On the other hand, I haven't yet come across a single convincing Moon aspect in a SSR that wasn't a conjunction, opposition, or square.

There's also, of course, the preponderance of concurrent positive SLRs which you had mentioned.

In any case, the upcoming SSR strikes me as easier than the current one.

My last few SLR's haven't been that noteworthy. They haven't been awful either, just nothing outstandingly positive about them. But this may fall into what Jim says about seemingly positive SLR's under a seemingly negative SSR & vice versa.

I think so too, it does seem easier. And while my current one has been tough in some ways (I really will do a follow up post on that thread very soon) I feel stronger both mentally & physically from it.

[Patrick Machado]

That's why I asked about octiles in return charts because both Venus & Saturn are aspecting my natal Sun. My Sun is barely middleground though but at least it bridges a connection.

Since the Sun isn't foreground, the aspects to it that are important are the transits within 1°. In that regard, Saturn's octile to it doesn't make the cut of being within 1°. (But I see the logic in taking Venus-Saturn together since they are closely opposite.) There's also Mercury octile natal Venus, Uranus opposite natal Venus, and Jupiter opposite natal Mars. All in all, were I to consider octiles as important as major aspects, that wouldn't be a concern in this SSR.

[LeiLei]

That's why I asked about octiles in return charts because both Venus & Saturn are aspecting my natal Sun. My Sun is barely middleground though but at least it bridges a connection.

Since the Sun isn't foreground, the aspects to it that are important are the transits within 1°. In that regard, Saturn's octile to it doesn't make the cut of being within 1°. (But I see the logic in taking Venus-Saturn together since they are closely opposite.) There's also Mercury octile natal Venus, Uranus opposite natal Venus, and Jupiter opposite natal Mars. All in all, were I to consider octiles as important as major aspects, that wouldn't be a concern in this SSR.

I allowed partile mundane octiles on TMSA because I was trying to find anything that might connect transiting factors to my natal. By doing that T.Sa is octile N.Su 0*59'm. I agree with your thinking though.

[LeiLei]

Two more things I meant to mention. This upcoming SSR also includes my Saturn opposition, exact on 02/27/2024. I know you don't think they're valid as charts, Jim, but I drew up my Saturn return & my Saturn square a while back just out of curiosity. I was blown away by the symbolism, probably more so than any other chart I've seen of mine. Maybe I'll make a post about them, I think you might at least find them interesting. Anyways if they are valid, it gives special meaning to my SSR with T.Sa & T.Ve in close opposition. And the chart in February seems like a dramatic shift in circumstances. If anything it will be a good test chart.

I also wonder if I might see my SSR manifest quite quickly as my Oct. 19 SLR features T.Ve 0*01 conjunct N.Sa, both very closely foreground.

[Jim Eshelman]

Transits have a life of their own - they work independently, more or less as if solunars didn't exist. So I expect major transit rhythms to play out regardless.

Regarding the SSR showing early... the simpler logic is that, once your SSR occurs, the solar and lunar will have similar overlapping symbolism, defining the window for the Venus-Saturn to manifests.

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote:

My last few SLR's haven't been that noteworthy. They haven't been awful either, just nothing outstandingly positive about them. But this may fall into what Jim says about seemingly positive SLR's under a seemingly negative SSR & vice versa.

LeiLei, if your SSR was my SSR, the first thing I would do is to see if I had any “outstanding incidents” SLRs for the solar year. I will be glad to scan for you if needed?

[LeiLei]

LeiLei wrote:

My last few SLR's haven't been that noteworthy. They haven't been awful either, just nothing outstandingly positive about them. But this may fall into what Jim says about seemingly positive SLR's under a seemingly negative SSR & vice versa.

LeiLei, if your SSR was my SSR, the first thing I would do is to see if I had any “outstanding incidents” SLRs for the solar year. I will be glad to scan for you if needed?

Thanks Steve. I've only skimmed over them but the only one I remember resembling the SSR while also being an "outstanding incident" chart is the SLR occurring 10/19. Feel free to check for them, you might see something I missed.

[SteveS]

I already see something and will get back to you with details later, nothing severe, only a dose of confusion possibly or some dissappointment. Go to Jim's deleinations for Moon-Neptune for certain tones.

[LeiLei]

I already see something and will get back to you with details later, nothing severe, only a dose of confusion possibly or some dissappointment. Go to Jim's deleinations for Moon-Neptune for certain tones.

Oh you mean the 02/06 SLR? I'm sorry, I thought you were meaning lunar's that were similar to my SSR. Considering my current SSR I'm not worried about Mo-Ne. I already had a couple outstanding ones this year & I'm all good. I figure I'll just be a bit more sensitive & my workouts may lag a little.

[Jim Eshelman]

LeiLei, you have partile aspects in the close foreground of most SLRs of this year (9 of them). While there are other angular planets, here's what I found listing ONLY the partile foreground aspects:

Oct 19 SLR: t Ve c r Sa 0°01'
Nov 15 SLR: t Ju op r Ve-Ma < 1° (plus natal Uranus-Pluto moves to a 0°01' mundane aspect)
Dec 13 SLR: t Ne s Mo 52'
Jan 9 SLR: t Ne sq r Mo 3' M
Feb 6 SLR: t Ne s Mo 20'
Mar 4 SLR: t Ma sq r Ur 12', t Pl op r Ju 35' M
Apr 27 SLR: t Me oo r S 50' M
May 25 SLR: t Pl op r Ju M
Jul 18 SLR: t Ju-Ne sa 6' M

For Demi-SLRs, same criteria, you have:

Dec 26 - t Mo-Ma-Ne all aspected within 14' to 49', all mundo
Jan 22: t Mo-Ve op 25' M; t Ve sq r Me 40' M
Feb 18: t Ma-Ur 23' M
Apr 13" t Ju op r Ve 38' M; t Ur op r Ve 4'; t Pl op r Ju 1' M
May 10: t Ve op r Ma 57'
Jul 4: t Ve-Ne sq 47' M

[SteveS]

OK LeiLei, I have looked at 6 months of your SLRs/DSLs beginning Oct 4 2023. On Dec 13 you run into an “outstanding incident” Moon-Neptune SLR, very important since we are dealing with a major outer planet (Neptune) in major aspect to your Natal Moon. Look for this SLR to probably begin “out of ordinary” Moon-Neptune stuff manifesting in your life. Below is a link to your mundo Dec 13 SLR featuring a very potent Moon-Neptune Paran time period in your life.

https://ibb.co/9YvhSFk

And then on Dec 25 you run into a nasty angular Moon-Mars-Neptune “outstanding incident” DSLR. I suspect this will have high probability of timing when your SSR angular Natal Saturn (on SSR ASC) will fire off, but only TIME knows for sure. Your eclipto Dec 25 DSLR link below.

https://ibb.co/mCPYyHB

Later I will discuss some of the probabilities how your Natal Saturn may manifest being on your SSR ASC, but remember this: you have silver linnings in your 2023 SSR with two Moon-Jupiter hits. I will discuss these later.

[Jim Eshelman]

Another way to look at the year: Ignoring aspects, here are only lists of Class 1 angularities in your SLRs and Demi-SLRs throughout the birthday year.

Oct 19: t Ve Ne, r Sa
Nov 1: r Me
Nov 15: t Ju, r Ve Ma
Nov 28: t Ve, r Su Me
Dec 13: t Mo Su Ne, r Mo
Dec 26: t Ne
Jan 9: t Ve Sa, r Sa
Jan 22: t Mo Ve, r Me Pl
Feb 6: t Mo Ne, r Mo
Feb 18: t Su, r Ma Ju
Mar 4: t Ma, r Ur
Mar 16: t Sa, r Ne
Apr 13: t Ju, r Ve
Apr 27: t Ve, r Me
May 10: r Ma Ju
May 25: t Pl, r Ju
Jun 7: t Ma
Jun 21: r Me Ju
Jul 4: t Su, r Su
Jul 18: t Ju Ne, r Ne
Jul 31: r Me
Aug 15: t Sa
Sep 11: t Ur, r Ve Ma Ur
Sep 24: t Sa, r Ne

This summarizes as:
Mo 5, Su 5, Me 6, Ve 8, Ma 5, Ju 6, Sa 6, Ur 2, Ne 8, Pl 2
Ve + Ju = 14... +Ur = 16
Ma + Sa = 11... +Ne = 19
Most common: Venus & Neptune (8)
Least common: Uranus & Pluto (2)

[LeiLei]

LeiLei, you have partile aspects in the close foreground of most SLRs of this year (9 of them). While there are other angular planets, here's what I found listing ONLY the partile foreground aspects:

Oct 19 SLR: t Ve c r Sa 0°01'
Nov 15 SLR: t Ju op r Ve-Ma < 1° (plus natal Uranus-Pluto moves to a 0°01' mundane aspect)
Dec 13 SLR: t Ne s Mo 52'
Jan 9 SLR: t Ne sq r Mo 3' M
Feb 6 SLR: t Ne s Mo 20'
Mar 4 SLR: t Ma sq r Ur 12', t Pl op r Ju 35' M
Apr 27 SLR: t Me oo r S 50' M
May 25 SLR: t Pl op r Ju M
Jul 18 SLR: t Ju-Ne sa 6' M

For Demi-SLRs, same criteria, you have:

Dec 26 - t Mo-Ma-Ne all aspected within 14' to 49', all mundo
Jan 22: t Mo-Ve op 25' M; t Ve sq r Me 40' M
Feb 18: t Ma-Ur 23' M
Apr 13" t Ju op r Ve 38' M; t Ur op r Ve 4'; t Pl op r Ju 1' M
May 10: t Ve op r Ma 57'
Jul 4: t Ve-Ne sq 47' M

I think I've had just as many if not more this SSR period. While I definitely think Lunar's are absolutely valid, I have not experienced them as anything exceptionally noteworthy lately. I'm not saying there haven't been some in the past, deaths of loved ones, other hardships, triumphs, etc. But the last couple of years have produced nothing truly outstanding. So I have a hard time getting excited or worried about them. It may be that my life is so secluded that I am mainly experiencing these charts psychologically rather than as events. And since I know what's coming I have better control of the outcome.

[Jim Eshelman]

I think I've had just as many if not more this SSR period. While I definitely think Lunar's are absolutely valid, I have not experienced them as anything exceptionally noteworthy lately. I'm not saying there haven't been some in the past, deaths of loved ones, other hardships, triumphs, etc. But the last couple of years have produced nothing truly outstanding. So I have a hard time getting excited or worried about them. It may be that my life is so secluded that I am mainly experiencing these charts psychologically rather than as events. And since I know what's coming I have better control of the outcome.

I wasn't suggesting you be concerned or that this was unusual - it's just to summarize what the times are to be like. These don't necessarily mean events or outward expressions. The strongest effects are always psychological, the "outer" events being particular expressions of that. - I can't imagine any other way astrology could operate.

In any case, "outstanding" doesn't mean there is a physical event, just that the forces are cresting as when multiple harmonics of an ocean wave strike together at the same time.

[LeiLei]

And then on Dec 25 you run into a nasty angular Moon-Mars-Neptune “outstanding incident” DSLR. I suspect this will have high probability of timing when your SSR angular Natal Saturn (on SSR ASC) will fire off, but only TIME knows for sure. Your eclipto Dec 25 DSLR link below.

The angularities are pretty weak. It reads very similar to my current SSR but much further from the angles. And it's only two weeks. I don't know, I just don't see the energies in such a black & white way. I don't experience Venus & Jupiter as only good nor do I experience Mars, Saturn, & Neptune as only bad. I also thoroughly enjoy Mars transits to my Neptune. I haven't had one this entire SSR period that hasn't been fun & creative. But I'll discuss that in my 2022 SSR thread a little later.

It seems like I'm always shooting down what you guys say & I'm sorry about that. It's just if my current SSR didn't produce anything truly nasty, I have a very hard time believing a two week chart will. It might very well suck but it will suck for two weeks & then I'll move past it.

[Jim Eshelman]

I also thoroughly enjoy Mars transits to my Neptune.

You are a weird, strange woman <vbg>.

I can think of no transit, and no aspect in any form, that I least want than Mars to my Neptune, Most of the time (guessing: 2 times out of 3) no matter how serene and karmic balanced I am, someone out of the blue (usually a stranger) eviscerates me emotionally as if rapidly running a sword in and out of my emotional body rapidly and repeatedly. Nothing like this EVER happens to me EXCEPT when Mars is transiting my Neptune.

I've learned to roll with it, but in the few minutes it happens I am in the worst nightmare I can imagine. It's difficult to think it's not happening to someone else, it is so at odds with everything else in my life.

When it is transiting Mars and transiting Neptune - quite a different aspect! - I usually think first of health problems especially when Moon is involved, although otherwise this can be quite pleasant in the sense of unreasonably indulging temptations in a nearly sordid and enthusiastic way. - That may be my natal Mars-Neptune coming to the fore.

It might very well suck but it will suck for two weeks & then I'll move past it.

A difference in how we value things, of course. After a certain age, getting sick is no minor thing that I can slough off, so the same reaction becomes, "Oh, shit, I could get sick!" And, of course, one moves past it, but the chance of getting a virus that would take me out for two weeks is always enough cause for me to try to have the return chart somewhere else.

That's the biggest difference I've found that aging makes in how I use astrology for myself: In my 20s, 30s, mostly in my 40s, signals of financial distress or health distress fell off my shoulders. Given that things are never QUITE as good or bad as one might think (most events in life are normal events), there was always the sense in the back of my mind that, given 10 years, I could work my way back from any of it. At this point, I don't want to knowingly leave an opening for either financial or health concerns that would take 10 years to work my way back from.

[LeiLei]

I think I've had just as many if not more this SSR period. While I definitely think Lunar's are absolutely valid, I have not experienced them as anything exceptionally noteworthy lately. I'm not saying there haven't been some in the past, deaths of loved ones, other hardships, triumphs, etc. But the last couple of years have produced nothing truly outstanding. So I have a hard time getting excited or worried about them. It may be that my life is so secluded that I am mainly experiencing these charts psychologically rather than as events. And since I know what's coming I have better control of the outcome.

I wasn't suggesting you be concerned or that this was unusual - it's just to summarize what the times are to be like. These don't necessarily mean events or outward expressions. The strongest effects are always psychological, the "outer" events being particular expressions of that. - I can't imagine any other way astrology could operate.

In any case, "outstanding" doesn't mean there is a physical event, just that the forces are cresting as when multiple harmonics of an ocean wave strike together at the same time.

No you didn't, I was making an assumption. And it is probably based on me actually wishing some of these charts would produce some outstanding event in my life & being frustrated that it hasn't been the case. I think it really all just boils down to being bored.

[Jim Eshelman]

No you didn't, I was making an assumption. And it is probably based on me actually wishing some of these charts would produce some outstanding event in my life & being frustrated that it hasn't been the case. I think it really all just boils down to being bored.

Boredom is a drag.

I guess I understand better why you might like Mars transiting your Neptune

Given that transits (including return charts) are primarily experienced as interactions with others (the environment), more sensational "somewhere other than in my own head" manifestations are more likely to happen the more one interactions with others and the worl in general.

[LeiLei]

I also thoroughly enjoy Mars transits to my Neptune.

You are a weird, strange woman <vbg>.

I can think of no transit, and no aspect in any form, that I least want than Mars to my Neptune, Most of the time (guessing: 2 times out of 3) no matter how serene and karmic balanced I am, someone out of the blue (usually a stranger) eviscerates me emotionally as if rapidly running a sword in and out of my emotional body rapidly and repeatedly. Nothing like this EVER happens to me EXCEPT when Mars is transiting my Neptune.

I've learned to roll with it, but in the few minutes it happens I am in the worst nightmare I can imagine. It's difficult to think it's not happening to someone else, it is so at odds with everything else in my life.

When it is transiting Mars and transiting Neptune - quite a different aspect! - I usually think first of health problems especially when Moon is involved, although otherwise this can be quite pleasant in the sense of unreasonably indulging temptations in a nearly sordid and enthusiastic way. - That may be my natal Mars-Neptune coming to the fore.

It might very well suck but it will suck for two weeks & then I'll move past it.

A difference in how we value things, of course. After a certain age, getting sick is no minor thing that I can slough off, so the same reaction becomes, "Oh, shit, I could get sick!" And, of course, one moves past it, but the chance of getting a virus that would take me out for two weeks is always enough cause for me to try to have the return chart somewhere else.

That's the biggest difference I've found that aging makes in how I use astrology for myself: In my 20s, 30s, mostly in my 40s, signals of financial distress or health distress fell off my shoulders. Given that things are never QUITE as good or bad as one might think (most events in life are normal events), there was always the sense in the back of my mind that, given 10 years, I could work my way back from any of it. At this point, I don't want to knowingly leave an opening for either financial or health concerns that would take 10 years to work my way back from.

LOL I am indeed! I'm a baker & pretty creative at it (creating my own recipes & such). In 2021 I starting experimenting with sourdough bread but didn't have great results. I left it behind but during the first long transit of Mars to my Neptune (2022 SSR) I decided to tackle it again & had the best results I had so far. Now it's a breeze & the best bread I've ever tasted. I also challenged myself to paint something new (outside my usual) during the same period & created something cool. There is some anxiety in the transit but I don't know...I like the way it feels, it's exciting. My son has similar experiences as yours but toned down. During this year I decided not to tell him when he had the transit so I could observe how he handled it. Two times we've had arguments but they were both productive, resolving quickly. Another time he had some conflict at work but it also resolved quickly. You both have Ma-Ne aspects although his is a Class 2 sextile. I've also wondered if my Neptune being in Scorpio takes well to Martial energy.

I don't worry about getting sick. Meaning I don't allow myself to dwell on those thoughts. I am a highly allergic person. I was tested as a child as being allergic to over 200 allergens. My allergist said I was the most allergic person he had ever seen. I went through immunotherapy for over 5 years. It didn't work & actually produced new problems. I started rejecting modern medicine after that. I've taken antibiotics one time in 20 years. I don't take a single allergy medication (I used to take loads) & I don't even take aspirin for a headache (which I barely get anymore). I ride it all out. I never have an allergy attack lasting longer than two days, usually just one, & occurring much less than when I was taking medications. I've only been actually sick 1.5 days for the last 4 years. My father also died at the hands of modern medicine when he was just 55 years old & had roughly a dozen major surgeries when I was preteen & teenager that left him a mess. So I have lots of reasons for the way I am now. I'm not at all suggesting anyone reading this to follow my example, I am simply sharing my experiences.

From my experience our minds are very good at manifesting that in which we fear. If I don't fear it, it won't happen. My greatest fear in my life was getting stuck, being in a situation that seemed impossible to get out of & here I am.

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote:

The angularities are pretty weak.

Then we are not looking at the same charts. Checking your birth data: Oct 7 1978, 3:35 pm EDT, Decatur, Ga. Correct?

[LeiLei]

LeiLei wrote:

The angularities are pretty weak.

Then we are not looking at the same charts. Checking your birth data: Oct 7 1978, 3:35 pm EDT, Decatur, Ga. Correct?

Yes that's right. My Neptune is close & the closest angularity overall but nothing transiting aspects it. T.Ma & T.Ne are both a little over 5* from an angle, according to TMSA at 93% strength, T.Mo is weaker, about 6* from an angle at 91% strength.

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote:

Yes that's right.

LeiLei, here is the mundo chart for your Dec 25 DSLR, another view inmundo but the same :
https://ibb.co/Qd7fT6v
We see a partile mundo T-square of Moon-Mars-Neptune angular 5 degrees, or Moon/Mars = Neptune angular. If you don’t feel any malefic effects during this 13 day time period as an incident or a psychological downer, then indeed, you are a superwoman with immunity . I tip my hat to you. Go to COSI and read Mo/Ma = Nep for an overall tone for this potent plantary picture in your Dec 25 DSLR. This doesn't mean an outward event will necessarily take place, it could manifest as a significent psychological downer pertaining to your immediate environment at the time. Keep me informed.

[Jim Eshelman]

Agreeing with Steve, I get this for the Christmas Demi-SLR in Morgantown. The angularities aren't Class 1 but they're Class 2 - wouldn't be called weak - and the foreground aspects are exceedingly close. (I've kept both sets of Moon aspects because they tell slightly different stories. The one thing that makes this seem less worrisome is that the close Moon aspects are to transiting Moon, not natal Moon: Not an assault on your vulnerabilities and immune system, but likely crazy responsiveness and instability in the environment.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ne 29Aq55'37"  1S14 + 0'41" 355°54'  3S 8 261°46' + 4°59' 185° 2'  93% D 
Ma 27Sc55'39"  0S30 +44'13" 262°21' 23S45 341°54' -73°26'  95°17'  93% I 
Mo 28Ta57'24"  4N26 +12°58'  83°16' 27N44 153°47' +76°57' 275°51'  91% M 
Me  1Sg10' 2"  2N52 - 1° 9' 265°59' 20S32 334°55' -69°20'  99° 5'  79% I 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ne 21Sc32'55"  1N25 + 1'17" 255°37' 21S22   3°30' -71°42'  88°51' 100% I 
Mo 28Sc57'24"  5N15 +14° 0' 263°45' 18S 3 342°26' -67°36'  97° 5'  87% I 
Sa 14Le32'55"  1N32 + 6'41" 161°46'  9N23  85°55' + 9°49' 350° 9'  76% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects     
tMa sq tNe  0°14'100% M                                                 
tMo op tMa  0°34' 99% M                                                 
tMo sq tNe  0°49' 99% M                                                 
tMe sq tNe  1°14' 97%                                                   
----------------------                                                  
tNe sq rMo  0°58' 98%                                                   
tMa co rMo  1° 2' 98%                                                   
tMe co rMo  2° 0' 92% M                                                 

Dropping out Class 3 angularities, it simplifies significantly:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ne 29Aq55'37"  1S14 + 0'41" 355°54'  3S 8 261°46' + 4°59' 185° 2'  93% D 
Ma 27Sc55'39"  0S30 +44'13" 262°21' 23S45 341°54' -73°26'  95°17'  93% I 
Mo 28Ta57'24"  4N26 +12°58'  83°16' 27N44 153°47' +76°57' 275°51'  91% M 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ne 21Sc32'55"  1N25 + 1'17" 255°37' 21S22   3°30' -71°42'  88°51' 100% I 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects     
tMo op tMa  0°34' 99% M                                                 
tMo sq tNe  0°49' 99% M                                                 
tMa sq tNe  0°14'100% M 

[LeiLei]

LeiLei wrote:

Yes that's right.

LeiLei, here is the mundo chart for your Dec 25 DSLR, another view inmundo but the same :
https://ibb.co/Qd7fT6v
We see a partile mundo T-square of Moon-Mars-Neptune angular 5 degrees, or Moon/Mars = Neptune angular. If you don’t feel any malefic effects during this 13 day time period as an incident or a psychological downer, then indeed, you are a superwoman with immunity . I tip my hat to you. Go to COSI and read Mo/Ma = Nep for an overall tone for this potent plantary picture in your Dec 25 DSLR. This doesn't mean an outward event will necessarily take place, it could manifest as a significent psychological downer pertaining to your immediate environment at the time. Keep me informed.

Nope not a superwoman. I may be making too light of the chart. I was sitting here asking myself why that is so & I remembered a particularly rough time in my life in 2016. A couple of charts for reference: 09/22/2016 DLR & 10/07/2016 SLR, both Morgantown WV. Awful charts, right? And it was an awful time. The entire year had been really rough but this time was the absolute worst of it. But then come November the most amazing thing happened & I experienced the most pure generosity from someone who owed me nothing & I was quite literally saved (my JU-PL potential paran may play a role here).
I think that's my worry with predictive charts. While I certainly find them interesting & more than a little addictive to study, I worry other people will let a SSR or SLR chart with negative features go to their head & feel doomed before it even unfolds. The worst times in my life have always led to the best times in my life, sometimes gradually, other times literally overnight like what I experienced in 2016. You just never know, things can change so quickly, & I just don't want anyone to feel like they're sunk before they've even started sinking. I know we all have a different set of experiences we must go through & I'm not actually responsible for how someone reacts to my threads on this forum, nevertheless, I do not want to aid in creating fear in other people. I have a 'I'm just going to face it & I will weather what comes' attitude but there are many people that are not like that & will turn to drugs & alcohol, poison themselves with worry, or worse. I just don't want to have a hand in that, I'd rather encourage people to be brave & to realize that nothing lasts forever. And thank goodness for that.
And yes I'm fully aware I asked you guys not to sugarcoat your responses (and I thank you for not doing so) but for whatever reason I still feel the need to be a voice against it & soothe anyone who might be reading these threads & then looking at their own charts that might have similar line-up's. I'm probably revealing my own particular blend of crazy within myself right now too.

[LeiLei]

Agreeing with Steve, I get this for the Christmas Demi-SLR in Morgantown. The angularities aren't Class 1 but they're Class 2 - wouldn't be called weak - and the foreground aspects are exceedingly close. (I've kept both sets of Moon aspects because they tell slightly different stories. The one thing that makes this seem less worrisome is that the close Moon aspects are to transiting Moon, not natal Moon: Not an assault on your vulnerabilities and immune system, but likely crazy responsiveness and instability in the environment.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ne 29Aq55'37"  1S14 + 0'41" 355°54'  3S 8 261°46' + 4°59' 185° 2'  93% D 
Ma 27Sc55'39"  0S30 +44'13" 262°21' 23S45 341°54' -73°26'  95°17'  93% I 
Mo 28Ta57'24"  4N26 +12°58'  83°16' 27N44 153°47' +76°57' 275°51'  91% M 
Me  1Sg10' 2"  2N52 - 1° 9' 265°59' 20S32 334°55' -69°20'  99° 5'  79% I 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ne 21Sc32'55"  1N25 + 1'17" 255°37' 21S22   3°30' -71°42'  88°51' 100% I 
Mo 28Sc57'24"  5N15 +14° 0' 263°45' 18S 3 342°26' -67°36'  97° 5'  87% I 
Sa 14Le32'55"  1N32 + 6'41" 161°46'  9N23  85°55' + 9°49' 350° 9'  76% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects     
tMa sq tNe  0°14'100% M                                                 
tMo op tMa  0°34' 99% M                                                 
tMo sq tNe  0°49' 99% M                                                 
tMe sq tNe  1°14' 97%                                                   
----------------------                                                  
tNe sq rMo  0°58' 98%                                                   
tMa co rMo  1° 2' 98%                                                   
tMe co rMo  2° 0' 92% M                                                 

Dropping out Class 3 angularities, it simplifies significantly:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ne 29Aq55'37"  1S14 + 0'41" 355°54'  3S 8 261°46' + 4°59' 185° 2'  93% D 
Ma 27Sc55'39"  0S30 +44'13" 262°21' 23S45 341°54' -73°26'  95°17'  93% I 
Mo 28Ta57'24"  4N26 +12°58'  83°16' 27N44 153°47' +76°57' 275°51'  91% M 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ne 21Sc32'55"  1N25 + 1'17" 255°37' 21S22   3°30' -71°42'  88°51' 100% I 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects     
tMo op tMa  0°34' 99% M                                                 
tMo sq tNe  0°49' 99% M                                                 
tMa sq tNe  0°14'100% M 

My son has rough charts around this time too, from the beginning of December until mid January. But every time I've come across a chart that seemed worrisome for him it resulted in just being a lot of hard work (sometimes out of the ordinary hard work) that he handled with strength. This could be something entirely different of course.

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote:

My son has rough charts around this time too, from the beginning of December until mid January. But every time I've come across a chart that seemed worrisome for him it resulted in just being a lot of hard work (sometimes out of the ordinary hard work) that he handled with strength. This could be something entirely different of course.

I understand LeiLei, thanks Jim/LeiLei for confirming my charts for Dec 25 Xmas DSLR.

Now I want to guess the delineation of LeiLei’s Natal Saturn on her 2023 SSR, understand LeiLei this is just guessing what this may bring to your immediate environment sometime during your 2023 solar year. Again remember you have strong Moon-Jupiter SSR symbolism so very high % if you do experience a downer Saturn experience you will bounce back with benefic Moon-Jupiter .

LeiLei, Jim teaches in his book “Interpreting Solar Returns" Natal Planets on a SSR angle is an indication how we will react to the symbolism in a SSR. Jim teaches us to first look to the natal aspects of your Natal Saturn for possible more clues to how your Natal Saturn will react. There are no aspects to your Natal Saturn. I use direct midpoint structures when I see a unaspected Natal Planet on a SSR angle. Your Natal Saturn has a partile direct midpoint of Sun/Jup = Saturn. What could this mean? I don’t really know but guessing by your posts in this thread, maybe something financial. At least Jup is connected so maybe not so bad. Sometime I will use houses the Natal Planet is in—but only if I can isolate from the native clear cut house symbolism by feedback from the native. Your Saturn is in your Natal 7H. This could indicate your Natal Saturn will react to your SSR with some person who is close in your immediate environment. Again, by what you have shared with us (thanks), you seem to worry about your son who you live with in his house. So, on a scale of 1-10 for malefic possibilities, I rate a 5 you will encounter some type of Moon-Mars-Neptune symbolism related to your son who we know is the closest person to you in your immediate environment of 7H relationships, maybe a confused/dazed fight with your son in a Moon-Mars-Neptune manner over the X’mass holidays---but understand I am guessing here. Even if so, the fight will be short lived with all the Moon-Jupiter symbolism in your 2023 SSR. Whatever may or may not manifest (you may indeed have superwoman powers) with your “out of the ordinary” Moon-Mars-Neptune Dec 25 DSLR, the worst will be just another possible downer which happens to all of us from time-to time (lunars).

We will wait and see if anything significant in a Saturn manner happens with your Dec 25 DSLR before we check the rest of your lunars after the first 6 months of your solar year. Anyway, this is my best I can offer and sincerely know you will reap benefic stuff with the next SSR Moon-Jupiter symbolism. Try to inform us after the holidays of any possible Saturn manifestations, and happy baking .

[LeiLei]

Thank you, Steve, I will try. I have a question, do you mean there are no aspects to my natal Saturn in my SSR or overall? Because I do have a Ma-Sa sextile 3*14' & a wider sextile to Uranus 5*46'. I understand you may not be counting these as they are static aspects. Just wanted to confirm.

Also you said in a previous comment that I have two Mo-Ju hits. Do you mean the T.Mo to N.Ju conjunction & the 0*15' conjunction in RA? I thought they were the same aspect basically, just that in RA it's closer?

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote/asked:

I have a question, do you mean there are no aspects to my natal Saturn in my SSR or overall? Because I do have a Ma-Sa sextile 3*14' & a wider sextile to Uranus 5*46'. I understand you may not be counting these as they are static aspects. Just wanted to confirm.

When I was discussing “no aspects” to your Natal Saturn, I was referring to “no aspects” in your Natal Chart to your Natal Saturn, not SSR aspects to your Natal Saturn in your 2023 SSR. Whenever we see a Natal Planet falling partile on a SSR angle that Natal Planet becomes super important to the Sidereal Astrologer because it will at times offer very important clues as how the native will react to the SSR symbolism. If I was doing a blind reading for someone else with the same SSR as your 2023 SSR, I would start by asking that person about what has happened in their life pertaining to close relationships, since I see that their Natal Saturn in in their Natal 7H. I would be searching for clues as to how that native may react to their 2023 SSR with their Natal 7H Saturn on their 2023 SSR ASC. So, I see that your Natal Saturn is in your 7H symbolizing “very close relationships”, and for sure we know the closest relationship in your immediate environment is your son because you are living with him. So, I immediately know that there are very high % that your 2023 SSR will have something to do with you reacting to something to do with your son. I already know you are living like a hermit in isolation since you have told us this is the case. In actuality the way I see/understand your main life situation is the only person in your immediate environment for you to react to-- is your son. LeiLei, do you see/understand how I am approaching interpreting your 2023 SSR? All I am doing is following Jim’s guidelines in his book “Interpreting Solar Return,” trying to arm you with as much symbolic information as possible for you to be able to hopefully cope better with your Saturn SSR, since you are a learning astrologer. The way I understand your 2023 SSR---the bottom line theme of your 2023 IMHO has much to do with your Natal Saturn and its Natal structures, high % this has to do with your son.
LeiLei asked:

Also you said in a previous comment that I have two Mo-Ju hits. Do you mean the T.Mo to N.Ju conjunction & the 0*15' conjunction in RA? I thought they were the same aspect basically, just that in RA it's closer?

Actually you have 3 Solar Return Moon hits to your Jupiters, natal & solar, and this is going to help in an important way to balance-out the possible heavy Saturn themes in your 2023 SSR. In Jim's Solar Return book he goes into important details how important it is for the Sidereal Astrologer to take a close look at our SSR Moons with their possible aspects both to solar planets and natal planets; and, the secondary progressed (sp) SSR Moons are very important to consider in delineating a Solar Return.

1: Your 2023 SSR sp Moon will soon after your birthday sp to exact cnj to your Natal Jupiter, about a month and half since the sp Solar Moons progress about 1.1 degrees a month. But what is super important since your 2023 Solar Moon is class 1 cnj your Natal Jupiter—this Solar Moon is “locked-in” to your Natal Jupiter for your entire solar year, thank the lord.
2: Your 2023 PSSR Moon will exact 90 your SSR Jupiter during your 2023 solar year.
3: Your sp SSR Moon will also sp to exact 90 to your SSR Jupiter during your solar year.
These 3 SSR Moons will be a great benefic aid to your psyche in dealing with whatever the details of the main angular theme in your SSR of Saturn, both SSR Saturn and Natal Saturn.

What I am trying to offer to you with Jim’s guidelines for his “outstanding incidents” return charts, is: in your case, you have an “outstanding incident” Moon-Neptune SLR on Dec 13 & more importantly an “outstanding incident” DSLR Moon-Mars-Neptune on Dec 25. This would be my best guess when you could possibly feel most of the SSR themed Saturn manifesting in your life, but understand I have not looked further than Mar 4 2024 at any more possible “outstanding incident” lunars. Please feel free to ask Jim or I more questions for better understandings with your leaning curves. I got a feeling you may learn a-lot this year with your 2023 SSR .

[LeiLei]

Another way to look at the year: Ignoring aspects, here are only lists of Class 1 angularities in your SLRs and Demi-SLRs throughout the birthday year.

What percentage does Class 1 angularity begin on TMSA (using the older version that measures minor angularity more accurately)?

It looks like Class 1 would start around 92% but looking at your list it seems you're only giving Class 1 to 98% - 100%.

[Jim Eshelman]

What percentage does Class 1 angularity begin on TMSA (using the older version that measures minor angularity more accurately)?

The boundaries aren't exact. I use 3° for major angles, 1° to minor angles (but sometimes include minors to 2° since I want to see them anyway).

I always calculate that as hard orbs. We could have forced the percentages to line up but thought it better to show the curve honestly. Since orbs are flexible things, I think it would be too artificial to try to line them up exactly. After all, I might cut things off at 3°00' even though an orb of 3°09' (e.g.) wouldn't be discernibly different most likely.

[LeiLei]

What percentage does Class 1 angularity begin on TMSA (using the older version that measures minor angularity more accurately)?

The boundaries aren't exact. I use 3° for major angles, 1° to minor angles (but sometimes include minors to 2° since I want to see them anyway).

I always calculate that as hard orbs. We could have forced the percentages to line up but thought it better to show the curve honestly. Since orbs are flexible things, I think it would be too artificial to try to line them up exactly. After all, I might cut things off at 3°00' even though an orb of 3°09' (e.g.) wouldn't be discernibly different most likely.

I'm either not understanding or my question isn't clear. I can't count on reading orbs accurately because mundanely they may be closer or further away. For instance, using TMSA, my natal chart has my MC at 23*34 Libra, Ur 20*19' & Ma 17*47'. My DC is 4*36' Cancer, Ju 10*59'. So that puts Ur at 3*15' & Ma at 5*47' from my MC. Ur - borderline Class 1/Class 2, Ma - Class 2. Ju at 6*23' from my DC - borderline Class 2/Class 3. But we know this is incorrect, because my Ma & Ur are further away, Ma - Class 3 & Ur - Class 2. My Ju is actually closer, firmly Class 2. On TMSA I'm given percentages, not mundane orbs. Both Ur & Ju are at 94% strength, I would think that would be Class 1 but it seems wider margins are given to Class 2 & Class 3. Shouldn't the classes be equally divided (at least roughly) by the percentages? Otherwise it doesn't make much sense, well it doesn't make sense to me. I don't see how only 98-100% is Class 1, leaving 75-97% to Class 2 & Class 3. It's very unbalanced unless I'm totally missing something.

Sorry Jim, I just read your response again & I think I understand what you're saying a bit more. But I still think it's very unbalanced. Anything 95% & up reads very strong to me, I think a lot of people would go even lower, say 92%. I don't think anyone is going to look at 95-97% strength & think it's moderate.

[Jim Eshelman]

Here is now you read angularity orbs in TMSA. Your return has all major angles, so we'll start with that. The thing you need to know is that the four major angles all have Prime Vertical Longitudes (PVL) multiples of 90°, i.e., 0°, 90°, 180°, and 270°.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ne 29Aq55'37"  1S14 + 0'41" 355°54'  3S 8 261°46' + 4°59' 185° 2'  93% D 
Ma 27Sc55'39"  0S30 +44'13" 262°21' 23S45 341°54' -73°26'  95°17'  93% I 
Mo 28Ta57'24"  4N26 +12°58'  83°16' 27N44 153°47' +76°57' 275°51'  91% M 
Me  1Sg10' 2"  2N52 - 1° 9' 265°59' 20S32 334°55' -69°20'  99° 5'  79% I 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ne 21Sc32'55"  1N25 + 1'17" 255°37' 21S22   3°30' -71°42'  88°51' 100% I 
Mo 28Sc57'24"  5N15 +14° 0' 263°45' 18S 3 342°26' -67°36'  97° 5'  87% I 
Sa 14Le32'55"  1N32 + 6'41" 161°46'  9N23  85°55' + 9°49' 350° 9'  76% A 

The next to last column head is PVL. Transiting Neptune on Descendant (D) is 185°02', so a 5°02' orb before Descendant (180°). Transiting Mars 95°17' is 5°17' before IC (90°). Transiting Moon is 275°51', so 5°51' before MC (270°). Transiting Mercury is 99°05', so 9°05' before IC (90°).

Natal Neptune is 88°51', so 1°09' past IC (90°). Natal Moon is 97°05' or 7°05' before IC (90°). Natal Saturn is 350°09', or 9°51' past Asc (0° = 360°).

For minor angles, you have to look back to the chart. Zenith (Z), Nadir (N), Eastpoint in longitude (E or El) and Westpoint in longitude (Wl) are ecliptical squares to Asc. EP and WP in R (Ea and Wa) take the most effort (but not much): Compare the planet's RA to the RAMC in the center of the chart.

[Jim Eshelman]

In terms of the thresholds, they're buried in a thread somewhere here - probably in the TMSA forum - or I could get out a spreadsheet and recalculate them. When I write the Advanced sections of my angularity chapter, they'll be spelled out minutely.

LATER - OK, I found the spreadsheet. (It's for aspects, but one page is scaled to the same 10° drop-off.) Class 1 cut-off is 3°00', which, on a +1 to -1 scale, has a score of 97% (exact 97.5% target is at 2°52', essentially 3°). Class 2 cut-off is 7°00', which has a score of 86% (exact 87.5% target falls at 6°40', so about 7°). Class 3 cut-off is 10°00', which has a score of 75% exactly.

Foreground is more than 75%, background is 25%, middleground is everything in between.

[LeiLei]

Thanks Jim, that makes much more sense. From now on I'll just ignore the percentages & go to PVL to read the orbs instead. Thank you!!

[LeiLei]

LATER - OK, I found the spreadsheet. (It's for aspects, but one page is scaled to the same 10° drop-off.) Class 1 cut-off is 3°00', which, on a +1 to -1 scale, has a score of 97% (exact 97.5% target is at 2°52', essentially 3°). Class 2 cut-off is 7°00', which has a score of 86% (exact 87.5% target falls at 6°40', so about 7°). Class 3 cut-off is 10°00', which has a score of 75% exactly.

Foreground is more than 75%, background is 25%, middleground is everything in between.

This is great to know too! Very much appreciated, Jim!

[Jim Eshelman]

I wrote a long thread this morning explaining the whole model with much detail:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=7812