Marion broke her ankle

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:01 am

As detailed elsewhere, my wife, Marion, fell and broke all three bones in her right ankle and one bone in her left foot. She's in the hospital for ER treatment and then overnight care. We're on the road and have made arrangements to get all of us and our vehicle back to LA late tonight. She'll have to have surgery almost immediately, and then probably two months of recovery.

I knew her Demi-SLR this week was bad - that is, malefic dominated - but they weren't close enough to look like it was super bad. She was planning next week to start an aggressive work push, and she does well with that under Mars and Saturn. Also, they were natal Mars and Saturn, so any problems would be self-originated, not something from the environment. We discussed the difference between her SLR at home (if we'd stayed home an extra day)or in Paso Robles (where we would be camping) and there wasn't enough difference to matter.

Marion was born May 30, 1963, 5:03 AM, Staten Island, NY. We live at 34N03'46", 118W18'47" where her SLR occurred two weeks ago. Here Demi-SLR occurred north of Paso Robles at 35N51'01" 120W46'14" just after midnight beginning August 31. The fall and injury were September 1 in Los Olivos, CA (about 3:30 PM).

Her August 17 SLR had been difficult but we knew what the immediate effect would be. Broadly (cast for home) it was Mercury-Mars and MC opposite Neptune on IC. Natal Sun is the most angular, though (but squared by transiting Mars). After ruling out concerns about car damage, we knew the main effect would be a business trip with lots of interaction with a sometimes contrary, demanding, and inattentive person that matched the aspects quite well (set to start about a day after the SLR). - This was all true but, of course, this chart is reasonably consistent with her accident yesterday anyway.

Her backdrop of major transits is that the recent Uranus station at 28Ar00 was half a degree from her Mercury and just within one degree of square her Saturn. - Oops, of the many possible effects of Uranus to Saturn, "broken bones" is one of them!

The main chart, though, was the immediate Demi-SLR of early August 31. The main feature is... t Uranus sq r Saturn 52' foreground. Natal Saturn is 2 14' from MC, natal Mars 5 degrees from IC, t Uranus and Mercury also angular but not closely.

Natal Mars and Saturn... consistent with an accident, but showing everything arose from her, not the environment. (She fell btw because of uneven ground in a dug-up street she was walking down.)

Had we stayed home, natal Mars was more angular than Saturn, about 1 28' from IC. Instead of Uranus to her Saturn the foreground aspect would have been Saturn opposite her Uranus 1 20', and a natal "discovered" mundane Sun-Saturn square would have appeared. Between these two, the Paso chart looked kinder, more exciting, less feeling restricted, so we continued with our plans to travel a day earlier and have her Demi on the road. She will, of course, not return to home where the Demi takes the form of Saturn opposite her Uranus, a natal Sun-Saturn square she doesn't usually have, and natal Mars most foreground.

For Los Olivos where the fall occurred, the chart is about halfway between home and Paso: natal Mars and Saturn are the two most foreground planets, each 3-4 degrees off angles. Mars is 4 06' one side, Saturn 3 09' the other, putting their midpoint 29' from the meridian!

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sun Sep 03, 2023 5:19 am

So sorry to hear this about Marion Jim. Reminds me when Gayle was in a hurry crossing a city street, fell and broke her knee requiring 4 screws to put her knee cap back together. Confined to bed for a long time at home, but what saved her from a-lot of swelling and pain was a specialized ice cooler which automatically pumped ice water to her busted knee several times during the day.

As far as what I see for the main chart timing her accident is her LA Aug 17 SLR. I know you don’t use 120s for return charts but Matthew and I paid a fair amount of attention to then, only when they were tight on the angles in a return chart. Doing so with her Aug 17 SLR we see angular SLR Mars (MC) partile 120 her SLR Uranus for an “outstanding incident” accident. Mars-Uranus symbolism is Ebertin’s (COSI) par-excellent symbolism for all kinds of accidents. Her elevated (Zenith) Natal partile Moon-Pluto cnj squaring her Natal Sun on SLR DSC for the emotional strain of the accident. Give Marion my best for a speedy recovery/rehab.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:10 am

Her Novienic Lunar Return occurred seven and a half hours earlier when we were still north of Paso Robles. For either location, it has Neptune within 1° of Descendant and a Moon-Mars opposition across the horizon.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 5:31 am

Par-excellent symbolism Jim. Do you have any idea how long she will have to remain in hospital after surgey?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:24 am

SteveS wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 5:31 am Par-excellent symbolism Jim. Do you have any idea how long she will have to remain in hospital after surgey?

No, because we haven't had any contact with a surgeon yet. That's my main task tomorrow, once doctors' offices reopen after the holiday: To secure the doctor we want. I suspect hospitalization not long, perhaps an overnight, but probably eight weeks of bed recovery after that.

Arena · Post by **Arena** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:49 am

OMG, so sorry to hear about Marion's accident. I wish her a speedy recovery.
The Mars-Uranus symbolism (even though it's a 120° aspect) for an outstanding incident is worth noting.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 9:26 am

Thanks, Arena and Steve.

On the Mars-Uranus, I agree on the symbolism - but statistics don't support soft aspects being valid in returns. The strong statistical results of using only hard aspects becomes diluted (as when random noise enters a sample) and the soft aspects themselves produce no meaningful aspects (while the hard aspects alone do hit right targets).

While that culminating Mars in the SLR is entirely consistent with bad accidents, and the SLR fits in broad terms (various combinations of Mercury, Mars, and Neptune around the angles), what I find to be the two most interesting details are:

The actual event occurred in the immediate aftermath of her Demi-SLR.
The Demi had no transiting planets foreground. It was all natal planets, and this was primarily a self-inflicted injury. (The pavement was uneven, and something distracted her a moment before she took the misstep - and these were the only outside, environmental factors. Primarily, she took a serious misstep and fell.

The combination of the two charts, though, is quite interesting and compelling. Cutting through the various location possibilities and using the location of the accident for both charts, here are the angularities (ignoring fine points of midpoints):

SLR 8/17
Partile: t Mercury
Class 1: r Sun, r Pluto
Class 2: t/r Moon, t Mars, t Saturn
Class 3: t Neptune

Demi-SLR 8/31
Class 1: --
Class 2: r Sun, r Mars, r Saturn
Class 3: t Mercury, r Uranus

Breaking the relative strengths out this way, in addition to the very strong Mercury presence, both charts are clearly malefic-biased. The SLR emphasizes transiting malefics and the Demi emphasizes natal malefics. - I find the Mercury interesting: We were being very careful about the car, and she was also planning to be using the car much more beginning tomorrow (Tuesday) for a new project that will now be delayed - Mercury seems simply to mean that she was in motion, in this case meaning walking (surely a basic Mercury meaning long before cars existed). Natal Sun is involved twice - though I'm not used to seeing this for health matters (and, actually, her health - her vitality - is quite excellent), German astrologers especially relate Sun to the physical body itself. (Transiting Mars squared natal Sun in the SLR.) She's also getting a lot of attention from friends.

If I were to blend these two charts with my ranking methods (a way to quantify what's obvious at a glance from the lists above), seeing how the SLR and Demi together appear, it looks like this:

Spotlight = 14
Malefic = 13, Benefic = 1
Indignity = 8, Dignity = 7, Change = 6

Despite the malefic bias overall, Sun tops the list (8 points) followed by Mercury (7). Moon, Mars, and Saturn come next (6). The two 0 scores are Venus and Jupiter.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 10:06 am

This gives a chance to test the quotidians for a big event. I'm curious how they respond here. They are the most sensitive to location in the moment.

Testing first by my usual Solar Fire quick methods for 3:30 PM September 1 in Los Olivos:

SNQ:
3°51' Leo - r Mars
3°53' Tau - SNQ MC

7°07' Leo - r Uranus
7°18' Leo - SNQ Asc
8°21' Aqu - t Saturn

28°52' Cap - r Saturn [sq t Uranus 28Ar00, r Mercury 27Ar31]
29°18' Can - SNQ EP-a
Natal Saturn is exactly on the angle at 29°14'! This is within 4'!!

Exactly on target! (Exactly!) Natal Mars 2' from EP is especially impressive, though we also might have liked t Saturn slightly closer. Overall, everything is here we would expect (and nothing is here we wouldn't). It will be interesting, then, to compare it in a moment to what I think (in theory) is the better SNQ rate.

SQ:
10°45' Can - s Mars
11°25' Lib - SQ Asc

16°19' Can - SQ MC
17°13' Can - t Venus stationary

The Mars is exactly right. The Venus doesn't fit the event as well, although it does describe the context of where we were and what we were doing for the day. Good enough, but a little compromised and not up to the SNQ standards. - An interesting aside is that SQ Moon was 22°23' Virgo, 5' from my Sun (not that I've found this sort of thing to be reliable).

PSSR:
(This is an estimation method usually accurate to within 1°. I'll refine it below.)
The better angles might be needed to get this one right. Transiting and SSR Saturns are each near but too far from the angles. I'll refine it below. By this calculation, natal Sun was exactly angular. For comparison, the Solar fire estimation method gave MC 10°30' Leo.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 10:27 am

In theory, the SNQ should be calculated using the sidereal year instead of the tropical year. If my Excel spreadsheet for this is calculating correctly, the SNQ should be calculated for July 29, 1963, 8:14:18 AM PDT. For Los Olivos, this gives nearly the same angles, but the precise (within a few minutes) orbs or lost so I have to judge this slightly inferior. - It still has the same right planets within 1° of an angle, just not having the tiny 2'-4' orbs. It does not (as I wrongly expected) bring transiting Saturn closer to the angle: It's not within 1° by either calculation.

SNQ:
3°04' Tau - SNQ MC
3°51' Leo - r Mars

6°36' Leo - SNQ Asc
7°07' Leo - r Uranus

28°26' Can - SNQ EP-a
28°52' Cap - r Saturn [sq t Uranus 28Ar00, r Mercury 27Ar31]
Natal Saturn is exactly on the angle at 29°14'.

SQ isn't altered by the different secondary progression theory, so it's the same.

PSSR (Mean Rate):
The Solar Fire estimation method gave MC 10°30' Leo, expected to be right to within about 1°. The mean rate has been performing better than the apparent solar rate, so I'm relying on that and checking it first. Careful calculation shows the MC 42' later, which makes all the difference in the world! Here is the correct mean rate PSSR for the accident:

11°12' Leo - PSSR MC
11°53' Aqu - s Saturn

14°20- Tau - r Sun [sq t Sun 14°190' Leo]
14°37' Sco - PSSR EP-a

Bingo! Saturn is the definitive planet of falls in general and broken bones in particular. It's also in Aquarius, with the ankle break being a Leo-Aquarius injury.

PSSR (Apparent Rate):
As long as I'm doing these comparisons, I might as well take the opportunity to contrast the mean and apparent rate PSSRs.

This (as expected) is not nearly as good, though it does meet the minimum requirements.

3°29' Sco - PSSR Asc
3°51' Leo - r Mars

14°01' Tau - r Sun
14°06' Leo - PSSR MC
14°10' Leo - t Sun

SNQ (Q1):
Having come this far, I might as well address the question, nearly as old as Sidereal astrology, about whether the Q1 performs better or worse than the Q2 above. The Q2 was fabulous! The Q1, while not utterly without merit (there is a Neptune) is fundamentally wrong (the double Jupiter).

1°00' Pis - Q1 MC
1°41' Pis - t Neptune

17°24' Gem - Q1 Asc
17°58' Pis - r Jupiter

20°30' Ari - t Jupiter
21°27' Lib - p Moon

Primary Angles (Naibod rate):
Calculating the "progressed angles" (which really means Primary angles) is astonishingly precise for the location of the fall (I don't think we look at these for LOCAL angles often enough):

28°33' Cap - P1 MC (Naibod rate)
28°52' Cap - r Saturn

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:05 am

Since this occurred only a few hours after her Quarti-Solar - with transiting Sun still partile square natal Sun - we should check the QSSR. For a long time, I've given up on these. Will then one surprise me?

It occurred September 1, 2024, 12:06:46 PM PDT when we were in Los Olivos. It's mixed: The strongest virtue is a 0°10' Moon-Mars opposition plus natal Saturn within a degree of an angle. However, it also has benefics closely angular including Jupiter conjunct natal Venus. (It's a real mix.) Here's the full breakdown:

t Saturn on IC -9°15'
r Uranus on MC -7°39'
r Mars on MC -4°30'
r Mercury on Dsc -3°40'
-----------------------------
r Saturn on IC +0°40'
t Jupiter on Dsc +2°24'
r Venus on Dsc +3°30'
r Neptune on Asc -3°40'
t Uranus on WP +1°55'

t Moon-Mars op 0°10'

r Venus-Neptune sq 0°03'
t Uranus co r Mercury 0°29'
r Mercury-Mars sq 0°49' M
t Uranus sq r Saturn 0°52'
t Uranus sq r Mars 0°55' M
t Jupiter co r Venus 1°02'
t Jupiter to r Neptune 1°05'
t Saturn op r Uranus 1°14'
r Mercury-Saturn sq 1°22'
t Jupiter sq r Saturn 1°44' M
t Uranus sq r Uranus 2°14' M
r Venus-Saturn sq 2°50'
r Saturn-Neptune sq 3°00' M

On balance, with all the aspects, I think this fits, though with lots of extra stuff added (perhaps the fact that we were on vacation and having a good time when it hit).

The question is whether this is valid because it's the Quarti-SSR or (what I think is the case) because it's the 10-day solar. The only way I know to assess that is to see if the themes of this chart continue after the next 10-day sets up Monday September 11 with Moon conjunct Venus and square Jupiter (with transiting Mars, Neptune, and Sun foreground): Is this perhaps the surgery or immediate aftermath?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:45 am

While the return charts are the most dramatic, and the quotidians came through like champs, we shouldn't skip past basic transits. How did these show for the event?

t Eris oc r Pluto 17'
t Eris oc r Moon 56'

t Uranus co r Mercury 29'
t Uranus sq r Saturn 52'

t Jupiter co r Venus 52'
t Jupiter op r Neptune 55'

t Sun sq r Sun 0°09'

It's easy to see the wider processes she was in and then how the day stood out as at least significant, though (other than quirky, unexpected things involving movement, and possibly one symbol of bones breaking) the exact kind of event doesn't show - just the larger processes we were involved in (the backdrop of what we were doing).

In general, I'm not used to transits to progressed planets being significant (except to the luminaries). We should look anyway. What we just missed was transiting Mars conjunct progressed Mars, separating by 1°07' (almost as if to pointedly not be involved). Otherwise,

t Pluto op p Venus 14'

This isn't fitting except, perhaps, in some off-to-the-side sense.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:53 am

Looking at her tertiaries. (These impress a lot of excellent astrologers and have been showing barely at all in my monitoring mine this year.)

There isn't a single tert-to-tert or tert-to-natal aspect unless you count the very long-term 0°28' tert-to-tert Saturn-Pluto opposition (which fits the type of event, but in no way identifies the time frame of the event). Nor is there a single transit to the terts.

Tert EP-a for location of the event does conjoin natal Sun, which, by itself, isn't exciting or descriptive other than the very broad sense of her being the center of attention.

Terts weren't worth a damn on this one.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:04 pm

How about solar arcs? Well, here's everything partile, with a heavy emphasis on benefic patterns that do not fit this event. (At best, they broadly describe our life over the last month etc..

d Pluto sq r MC +43'
d Mars oc r Moon +24'
d Eris co r Sun +14'
d Jupiter sq r Pluto +11'
------------------------------ <right now>
d Jupiter sq r Moon -28'
d Sun op r MC -35'
d Venus sq r Jupiter -57'
t Neptune sq r Jupiter -60'

The overall set is quite positive (thus, unfitting). The two best fits are the that are longest past, Mars to Moon and maybe Pluto to MC (though that seems way too big and pivotal for this event). Directing local angles by Solar Arc (for the event site in Los Olivos), we at least get d MC sq r Mercury 51', which is wide and generic though.

The Solar Arcs are pretty good at showing Marion's basic life state for this period of her life, but I don't think show this event at all.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:13 pm

Her August 20 Anlunar, set for Los Olivos, has only wide angularities. Transiting Mars for the event was 8°23' Virgo and local Anlunar Asc was 7°03' Virgo, but not really there.

Ah, but if we set up the Anlunar where it occurred - at home - it's Asc is 8°34' Virgo, so transiting Mars was crossing that (within 11') for the fall. Still, this chart is a hard sell since nothing is closely angular: It has Mars opposite Neptune, for example, but they are more than 7° from angles. Nobody would pick this as a significant chart.

The August 23 Kinetic Lunar was much better. In fact, it's the chart that brings together transiting Mars' conjunction with progressed Mars (we should count on the KLR for such things). Los Olivos IC was 9°36' Virgo with progressed Mars 7°05' and transiting mars still back at 2° Virgo. By the accident, transiting Mars had crossed p Mars and was just 1° out of orb but about to cross KLR IC.

FlorencedeZ. · Post by **FlorencedeZ.** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:14 pm

Jim, would the Soli Lunar (SL) be of interest you think? Since you are looking at different techniques. I am not behind SF today to have a look.
I am very sorry this happened to Marion, what a terrible accident. Regards, Flo

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:30 pm

I was working my way up to that, Flo, hadn't gotten there yet. In my large collection of accident cases, they proved quite weak, although individual examples are sometimes interesting.

To do them in TMSA, I have to build special configuration files and hadn't gotten that far yet.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:49 pm

Regarding SL/LS, the immediate chart was the August 24 Demi-LS (5:35:35 PM PDT per TMSA). I've cast it for Los Olivos, though it occurred while we were still home. It's an enormously benefic chart: If it applies to anything, it is our pleasure vacation during which the accident / bone-breaking occurred.

t Pluto on Asc -5°15'
t Jupiter on IC -2°16'
r Neptune on MC -1°09'
r Venus on IC -1°05'
---------------------------
t Venus on WP +0°04'

r Venus-Neptune op 0°03'
t Venus sq r Neptune 0°17'
t Venus sq r Venus 0°20'
t Jupiter co r Venus 0°52'
t Jupiter op r Neptune 0°54'
t Venus-Jupiter sq 1°11'
t Venus-Pluto op 1°55' M
t Jupiter-Pluto sq 2°58'

For home, where it occurred, it's an even more benefic chart: t Jupiter 0°25' from IC, t Venus 0°43' from WP-a, natal Venus 1°34' from IC, natal Neptune 1°30' from MC.

In some ways, the August 10 full LS is even better. For Los Olivos, the angularities aren't as close, but the aspect orbs are nearly 0. It's a totally benefic chart other than the inevitable Neptune that comes with her Venus. The angularities are so wide one might be tempted to say the chart shows nothing at all (in which case the Demi is the only voice) but, if we give full angularity orbs, it's an utterly benefic chart.

r Neptune on Dsc -7°43'
r Venus on Asc -7°28'
t Jupiter on Asc -7°15'

t Jupiter co r Venus 0°01'
t Jupiter op r Neptune 0°03'
t Venus-Neptune op 0°03'

For LA where it occurred, the angularities are somewhat closer, but not enough to scream about (and all benefic): t Jupiter 5°58' from Asc, r Venus 6°11', r Neptune 6°25'.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:47 pm

Bingo, WOW, for Marion’s SNQ! Her natal Mars-Uranus all over the SNQ’s angles for par-excellent accident symbolism! And the angular Saturn symbolism as well! What a strangely configured SNQ

. For sure on that DAY, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, angularily speaking.

Marion’s SNQ for day/time of her accident:
https://ibb.co/NK6scYV

Note her Natal Mars partile 90 her SNQ MC, and her Natal Uranus partile cnj her SNQ Asc.
Ebertin’s COSI negative for Mars-Uranus combos:

The passing of a test of nerves, accident, injury, operation.

And the angular Saturn action with her SNQ helped make sure it was a downer DAY. Outstanding angular symbolism for her accident Jim!

Jim wrote:

…but probably eight weeks of bed recovery after that.

This is exactly what happened to Gayle when she broke her knee cap, in bed for several weeks---then a strenuous rehab period of several more weeks. Her hydro ice water delivery system should did save her a lot of pain and swelling Jim---let me know if Marion’s Doc orders the same type system.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:56 pm

SteveS wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:47 pm Bingo, WOW, for Marion’s SNQ! Her natal Mars-Uranus all over the SNQ’s angles for par-excellent accident symbolism! And the angular Saturn symbolism as well! What a strangely configured SNQ . For sure on that DAY, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, angularily speaking.

Especially considering the new Demi-SLR marked by natal Mars and Saturn.

Her hydro ice water delivery system should did save her a lot of pain and swelling Jim---let me know if Marion’s Doc orders the same type system.

That may just be specialized to knees. I suspect it will be medication plus rest (with foot elevated above heart level to make sure fluids don't build up). Probably three layers of medication, being a superstrong (opioid) for night or when really needed, an extra-strong over-the-counter analgesic like high-dose Motrin, and counsel to use normal OTC (like her Extra Strength Tylenol) when that's enough.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 6:59 am

Jim wrote:

Especially considering the new Demi-SLR marked by natal Mars and Saturn.

Indeed!

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:41 am

Did Marion have surgery Jim?--updates when you have time.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:04 am

SteveS wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:41 am Did Marion have surgery Jim?--updates when you have time.

This will take at least several days to set in motion. I made contact with the office of the surgeon we want, and they need the records from the original hospital - and that's a complicated process on its own (it should be trivial, but it isn't). Separately, Marion had a video appointment with her primary doctor who is also setting in motion a formal referral to the surgeon. Some progress made yesterday, therefore, but more steps to follow. Our goal for today is to "seal the deal," provided all the pieces are in place.

I have Sun-Mercury transiting my Jupiter-Uranus today (and Venus still within a degree of square my Mercury, while still nearly at her station), but several days on Neptune on a quotidian angle, so we'll see. I expect there will at least be progress, and perhaps more. Marin still has transiting Jupiter (essentially at its station) on her SSR MC. Her Q's are interesting, with t Uranus conjunct r Mercury on an SQ angle and that transiting Sun-Mercury conjunction on her PSSR MC.

We'll see what's happening.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:45 am

I understand Jim, update us after she knows from the surgeon what will be involved with surgery.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:33 am

We got a surgeon's appointment for next Tuesday, 9/12.

Interestingly, in looking at the Quarti-SSR (not being sure if it showed things reasonably well as a QSSR or as a 10-Day Solar), I saw the tide changing within a new 10-Day on 9/11. (Moon to Venus-Jupiter.)

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:59 pm

We saw the surgeon today. Surgery Thursday with lots of appointmentss tomorrow. Four weeks off her feet and then "we'll see."

Lunar look like we're liberated and Travelling first week of January, with lots of Mercury (movement?) stuff in her lunar most of thst time.

Her new SLR tomorrow is pretty boring other than an angular Pluto.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:12 am

Surgery not tomorrow after all. Pre-op tests can't all get back at once. Thus also gives the chance for her to try one more time to get her first choice surgeon (instead of the surely competent other surgeon in the same department).

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 1:32 pm

Do you/Marion know whats involved in the surgery?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 1:42 pm

SteveS wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 1:32 pm Do you/Marion know whats involved in the surgery?

As we knew when it happened, the three bones jn the ankle are snapped. Whether clean or with gravel, they can't tell til they get inm. They have to repair the breaks with whatever steel parts they find are needed.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 1:54 pm

Reminds me when Gayle broke 2 bones in her lower arm, one bone in several places. They had to put a long steel plate in with 10 screws. We still have all the metal in a small plastic bag.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 1:55 pm

They went back and took it out?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:11 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:12 am Surgery not tomorrow after all. Pre-op tests can't all get back at once. Thus also gives the chance for her to try one more time to get her first choice surgeon (instead of the surely competent other surgeon in the same department).

After several back-and-forths, surgery is tomorrow morning. We need to be there by 9 AM, so they are planning it at about 11 AM. Best location (if anyone is tracking) would be the coordinates for West Hollywood, CA, although LA is close enough and Beverly Hills is nearly the same. Moon is nearly New (risk of bleeding is lowest), at 11 itself Jupiter is setting squared by a slow Venus (but one can never know exactly when they will start). She'll be in surgery about three hours.

Transiting Uranus is the main player, 22' from conjunct her Uranus and 59' from square her Saturn; plus Saturn 18' from opposite her Uranus. (Saturn-Uranus both ways for broken bones.) Jupiter is just within 1° of her Venus-Neptune (52', 55'). Venus EXACTLY squares her Venus-Neptune (at 11 AM, 15', 12').

Eris is 56' from octile her Sun (but has been in that area for years).

Her chart has the event fairly well described. Mine has it worse (astrologically: I'm sure she'll have the worse day). Besides the two-year Pluto opposite Jupiter-Uranus and Neptune conjunct Descendant, Saturn is octile my Sun 3', Mars is still within a degree of my progressed Moon and octile my Venus-Pluto within minutes, Sun opposes my Moon, and Mercury octiles my Mars.

Moon hits new at 6:40 PM tomorrow night at 26°55' Leo, precisely conjunct just before the luminaries set in the west, partile trine Uranus, and exactly square MC in LA.

Marion's new SLR is pretty boring but does have one planet (Pluto) close to an angle. My Demi-SLR late tomorrow night is anxious and effortful but not horrible. (Lots of spousal attention symbolism.) Here are notes on hers:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Pl  2Cp59'22"  2S44 - 0'44" 300°45' 23S14 167°43' +31°42' 289° 0'  99% Z 
Ma 16Vi18'54"  0N31 +39'13" 190°40'  4S 2 271°33' - 9°29' 170°31'  77% D 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ju 17Pi58' 6"  1S11 +10'59"  12°27'  4N 4  90°30' + 8° 1' 351°59'  83% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects    
tMa op rJu  1°28' 97% M

Of course, though we've abandoned such methods (for what appear to be good cause), if we were to interpret this in the fashion of Fagan-Bradley in the 1940s, we would note that both luminaries (and two other planets) are in the 6th house, with Sun closely trine Uranus = suggesting that health is a major theme and it's going to have a positive, change-oriented outcome - with Jupiter, Uranus, and Pluto in angular houses and Jupiter squared by Venus - with all malefics background. From this, we would conclude a happy outcome.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Thu Sep 14, 2023 11:10 am

She's on her way into the OR. One unpleasant piece of news from the CT scan: She has some sort of compression thst means it will be six to eight weeks (rather than two to four weeks) before she can put pressure on it post-surgery.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:00 am

Jim asked:

They went back and took it out?

Yes, and when we actually viewed all the pieces of metal in plain sight Gayle & I were

.

She has some sort of compression thst means it will be six to eight weeks (rather than two to four weeks) before she can put pressure on it post-surgery.

How did her surgery go Jim?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:45 am

SteveS wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:00 am How did her surgery go Jim?

Well, as far as we know it went fine. That is, I assume it went fine, I don't actually have any objective basis for judging that: I took her there, they had her for eight hours, and they gave her back to me and said they were done.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:22 pm

Is her angle/foot in a thick cast?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:41 pm

SteveS wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:22 pm Is her angle/foot in a thick cast?

Yes, as it was before the surgery.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 6:28 am

Marion us in the "this is going to take forever!" healing process, utterly bored with her mandated immobility, though at the moment cramming hard on a course she's taking. Her two-week post-surgical follow-up is day after tomorrow, so we'll get revised estimates and perhaps information.

So, of course, yesterday's Demi-SLR shows boredom, eagerness to get out, antsiness, and picking up physical and mental activity. The strongest thing is multiple kinds of Saturn-Uranus, including Saturn square transiting Uranus mundanely and opposite natal Uranus ecliptically. Now that we're past the stage of breaking bones, Saturn-Uranus seems to be the push-pull of need for freedom vs need for constraint and restriction.

Her Demi boils down to transiting Saturn-Uranus aspecting natal Mercury-Mars-Saturn-Uranus in the foreground, though (like all the returns of the last month) natal Sun is th single strongest factor. The four partile foreground aspects are:

t Saturn op r Uranus 0°06'
t Saturn op r Uranus 0°08'
t Saturn sq t Uranus 0°13' M
t Uranus sq r Uranus 0°19' M

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Sa  6Aq35' 7"  1S47 - 3'25" 334°19' 12S33   8°56' -68°16'  86°28'  97% I 
Ur 27Ar38'54"  0S19 - 1'24"  50°24' 18N 8 294°38' - 3°25' 176°14'  96% D 
Mo 15Aq59' 2"  3S39 +15° 2' 343°55' 10S47 344°47' -66° 2'  96°39'  88% I 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Su 14Ta 1'27"  0N 0 +57'32"  67°24' 21N49 288°30' +11°47' 192°24' 100% Wa
Ur  7Le 7' 9"  0N46 + 1' 7" 154°27' 11N24 188°13' +67° 9' 266°33'  97% M 
Me 27Ar30'46"  3S35 - 1'49"  51° 7' 14N57 291°41' - 4°49' 174°50'  93% D 
Sa 28Cp52'23"  1S 3 + 0'24" 326°37' 14S32  29°51' -68° 3'  78°39'  92% N 
Ma  3Le51' 0"  1N25 +29'21" 151°34' 13N11 196°24' +68°23' 263°37'  89% M 
Mo 15Le59' 2"  3N53 +12°20' 164° 1' 11N 1 164°26' +66°14' 276°44'  88% M 
Pl 15Le19'57" 13N36 + 0'16" 167°21' 20N12 145°52' +73°43' 279°18'  78% M 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects     
tSa sq tUr  0°13'100% M 
----------------------  
tSa sq rMe  1°38' 93% M 
tSa op rMa  2°44' 89%                                                   
tSa op rUr  0° 6'100% M                                                 
tUr co rMe  0° 8'100%                                                   
tUr sq rMa  2°37' 81% M                                                 
tUr sq rSa  1°13' 96%                                                   
tUr sq rUr  0°19'100% M                                                 
----------------------                                                  
rMo sq rSu  1°58' 89%                                                   
rMo co rPl  0°39' 99%                                                   
rSu sq rPl  1°18' 95%                                                   
rMe sq rMa  1°13' 96% M                                                 
rMe sq rSa  1°22' 95%                                                   
rMe sq rUr  1°44' 92% M                                                 
rMa co rUr  2°56' 88% M

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Fri Sep 29, 2023 12:09 pm

Report on Marion's two-week post-op visit (exactly four weeks post-injury): The keywords are: progress, next steps, and normalcy.

Specifics: The cast on the right came off and was replaced by a boot. The lesser break on the left is healed well so its boot came off and she can start weight-bearing on the left. Surgical stitches came out. She will start simple rotational exercises with the foot and other early exercise to increase mobility of the ankle and flexibility of the foot. Pain meds are reduced by dropping the narcotic and using a cocktail of two high-dose anti-inflammatories piggybacked several times a day. She's going to start using crutches (what I used to call my upper body workout system) for limited excursions around the apartment.

The next follow-up is in six weeks (November 10), which will be ten weeks post-injury. Current expectation is that she'll be released at that time for full weight-bearing on both feet.

I got one weird look from the PA: Marion was describing current pain patterns. The PA said, "That's normal, unfortunately." I corrected her, saying "Fortunately." (On this sort of thing, I think "normal" is fortunate by definition.)

She probably doesn't need the wheelchair we rented by the month. However, we rented it in Goleta and we don't have a way to get it back right now, so I'll probably call Monday and tell the manager we're keeping it an extra month.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 4:55 am

Will Marion eventually have to go to a rehab center on a regular basis?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 7:16 am

SteveS wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 4:55 am Will Marion eventually have to go to a rehab center on a regular basis?

There will be a period of physical therapy after she's released to full weight bearing. What I've generally seen is a month or two of going once a week (but nobody has said exactly what it will be in this case).

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:50 pm

I wanted to record... I checked Marion's Lunar Arcs for this event and found absolutely nothing. Not a single aspect.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:29 pm

Last week, Marion was released to begin weight-bearing (using a walker) and start physical therapy. This is still very limiting (transiting Saturn is still within a degree of her natal Zenith, as it is of my Descendant). I know there is progress, but it has been too slow for her to feel there is much gain.

A few minutes ago, she moved, for the first time, the length of the apartment in two directions. Then (since I have to be at work tomorrow when she has a PT appointment), she confirmed that, by herself, she can get out the door, use our very cumbersome elevator, and get out the front door - and back. This is a very big deal!

There are, of course, various astrological markers. Among other things (since this is in the SLR forum), we both have minor positive lunars.

But the one big thing that matched the time, a few minutes ago, when she let out a "Hallelujah!" is that transiting Uranus is 0°01' from exact opposition to her progressed Moon.

I thought the quotidians might show the day this happened and, indeed, SQ Ascendant was square natal Jupiter half a degree (though one-planet quotidians aren't all that impressive). Predictably, the Quarti-SLR late yesterday was poor (Neptune rising).

But that 0°01' opposition of transiting Uranus to progressed Moon... that's pretty good!

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Thu Nov 16, 2023 2:20 am

Jim wrote:

But that 0°01' opposition of transiting Uranus to progressed Moon... that's pretty good!

Indeed! To become mobile again after weeks of being confined to a limited space is indeed an exciting (Uranus) emotional (Moon) feeling, we take walking for granted until we lose the ability to walk.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:32 pm

Valentino, our new car, is back in our possession - and Marion drove it home from Long Beach.

Surprisingly, driving is easier than walking. (She's been walking short distances unassisted and still using her walker for anything longer.) This surely is because she has been working hard on her PT for ankle flexion. (Ankle flexion is the main consideration for driving.)

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:04 am

We retrieved our car from the friend who had been car-sitting it December 10, 2023, 1:45 PM PST, Long Beach, CA. The moment had two significances for both of us. First, it was the reacquiring what had been a new car to us just before Marion's accident (we'd had it exactly three weeks before the accident, then Kali and I lived in it for a few days while Marion was initially in the hospital). We had come to love the car a lot and it was a significant event to get it back. - Second, even though Marion isn't entirely healed, it psychologically registered as her moment of freedom, since she was able to drive it away (and is quite comfortable doing so: driving is easier than walking).

I mention all of this for the whole record of this thread but also as a setup for one particular detail. As a few of you may recall, we were discussing the possibility that transits to Solar Arc positions are valid. I'm skeptical of this, but the way to find out is to test them on day-to-day transits. In the two months I've been watching, I haven't seen anything that impressed - the transits were either inconsequential or (occasionally) seemed contradictory to the nature of the day. However (and this is only one example), yesterday's transits to my directed planets were remarkably precise and descriptive - enough that I thought I should mention them. For the moment we retrieved the car:

11°13' Ari - t Jupiter
11°26' Cap - d Venus
11°39' Lib - d Pluto
12°09' Lib - t Venus

12°53' Vir - d Uranus
12°56' Sag - t Mercury
13°10' Vir - d Jupiter

Given the two psychological characteristics of the event... Mercury to Jupiter-Uranus and Venus-Jupiter to Venus-Pluto seem pretty solid. The only connection back to the natal is that directed Venus-Pluto have just crept into partile orb of octile natal Moon at 27°24' Aquarius.

On the other hand, there was a distinct negative that is contrary to the time:

6°35' Aqu - t Saturn
6°57' Tai - d Moon

This should have had some significance since it octiles natal Sun at 22°28' Virgo. (Saturn's transit to my Sun will be exact 12/22, a few days before my eye surgery is currently scheduled.)

BTW, in simpler terms, yesterday's Venus-Jupiter opposition was partile square Marion's natal MC. [That also means it was square her progressed Sun, which is currently on natal IC like mine.) I'm puzzled that, as she's starting to experience more freedom, she still has Saturn (cleared of all other contacts) opposing natal Uranus - not exact until 12/18. (Perhaps restlessness? Not sure.)

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:18 am

I only pay attention to outer planet transits to d planets, but your example here appears to maybe allow for inner planet transits to d planets. Anyway, I know it’s a relief for you and Marion to reacquire the vehicle for much more freedom of movement. After your eye surgery how long will it take to get full vision back? Has a date been confirmed for the eye surgery?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:37 am

Eye surgery is currently scheduled for December 27. However, I keep hoping they'll move it sooner so, in my head, it's settled but not settled.

On fast planet transits, the primary purpose for which I do astrological forecasting at all is to get a day-by-day "here is what your day is like" reading, so it relies heavily on fast planet transits to various things. My psyche doesn't really register "unusual day" events as all that different from "usual day events," it's just witnessing what happens as it goes. (There are exceptions, of course.) When I got into real astrology I was so excited to learn that you really could do a personal, authentic equivalent of the day-by-day Sun-sign horoscope predictions, and that it really worked! It's all part of the flow.

The 27th is the exact day transiting Neptune sesqui-squares natal Saturn, which does not sound pleasant (but is probably fitting), It's two days before Pluto exactly squares SSR Mars. This sounds like major surgery, which is exactly what's planned. - The day after (12/28) has only transiting Mars octile natal Saturn (meaning: Mars-Neptune to natal Saturn!), which makes sense for probable immediate-aftermath pain and impact. The second day after (12/29) besides the exact Pluto to Mars has Mars square SSR Neptune (more aftermath) but, by evening, Venus crossing my local Nadir (and weaker aspects to Sun to SSR Uranus and transiting Venus to progressed Moon). So, by that night, I'll probably be starting to come out of it. And so on. (New Years Eve may be a little rough as Mars crosses natal IC and squares progressed Sun. Lovely new lunars begin for both of us with the new year and we hope to be on the road for a few days.)

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:03 am

You and Marion need to get back to wine country ASAP after your eye-surgery and what she has been through.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sat May 04, 2024 6:38 pm

After work on a Bradley thread earlier today, my attention got sparked by converse progressions. From earlier work, I'm convinced that all converse rates work, but it's just not work calculating them most of the time. So I essentially never look them.

But, for the heck of it, I pulled up Marion's quotidians for the fall (which did so spectacularly well as direct progressions) and flip the middle ring - the progressions - to converse. (Natal on the inside ring, converse secondary progressions on the middle, and transits on the outside). At first I thought there was really nothing of note. Then it occurred to me - doh! - you can't use direct transits against converse quotidian angles, you need to use converse transits. So, I flipped the outside ring to converse transits and - whoa! - there it was:

22°18' Vir - c SNQ2 Asc
22°39' Vir - c t Mars

This brought out a few other things of interest, too, but nothing so blunt as (converse) transiting Mars a third of a degree from (converse) SNQ Ascendant.

The other things included cp Moon op Uranus 0°58' - nearly out of orb. Converse transiting Moon was 0°03' from opposite regressed Mars (a brief transit, but a good quick timer). There were also several Venus or Venus and Uranus contacts to show the general context of the trip we were on.

So... in case I forget... the key to the converse quotidians is to use converse transits with them. (Of course!)