A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

[SteveS]

The Admiral met with me for the next 12 Wednesdays at Merrill Lynch, and the first thing he told me was the Company I worked for would not have a long life. I was shocked, and asked how he knew this, and he said to trust him he knew. He then told the next most important thing I had to do was sell my high mortgage house and look for a much more economically priced house. I asked why, and he said I had to find a house I would be able to pay-off no later than 10 years, if not, I and a lot of others of my generation had high % of having to live in a not fully paid owned house---risking living in the streets after my generation reached retirement age. I was doubled shocked and did not believe him. Long story short, the Admiral explained to me what was going to happen over the rest of my life with Nixon shutting down the Gold Window completely in Aug 1974, which was a necessary evil. He said inflation would rob my generation blind, without my generation realizing how they were being robbed. Said the morals and living standards of my generation would start a long process downward spiral with lots economic pain on unseen subtle emotional levels, and the best way for me to avoid this unseen economic pain was to find a cheap house in order to put a paid for roof over me and my wife’s head. I later realized the reason he knew this had to do with the Gold Standard being abandon by the US Government, our Country’s currency had been on the Gold Standard since its inception in 1776, but 1974 had been abandon by powers higher-up than Nixon. Somehow I felt like he knew these powers but did not ask who they were. Next, I will post what he told me to do with the Company’s Pension Fund and Company’s Investment Portfolio, it’s a wild story.

[Jim Eshelman]

If this thread (on the NYSE radical chart) continues down the path of micro-harmonics, I will move it out of the mundane astrology section into the hidden "experimental techniques" section. - Please decide if you want to upend the original thread with these new topics or remove the radically speculative content to new threads in another part of the forum.

(Primarily Steve's call since this is his long-term thread for a different purpose.)

[RingsOfSaturn22]

Rings asked:

Have you ever read Gann's book The Magic Word? Or his little article on the human body? If so, what do you think about them?

I have not read his article on the human body. Do you have a link to this article? On the other hand, I have read his coded book “The Magic Word” several times. It led me to the Bible with many references straight-up astrological in nature. This is when I decided maybe I need to take-up the study of astrology. If memory is serving me, I think I talked with a person at Billy Jones Seminar in Chicago who said this book was coded written forecasting the Great Depression in the early 30s, but not sure about this. Another Gann student said the Magic Word was JEHOVAH (a form of the Hebrew name for God used in some translations of the Bible). What are your opinions Rings with Gann’s book “The Magic Word?”

I will just post the article here since it was only a few paragraphs.

The Human Body

There are seven openings in the head – two eyes, two ears and two nostrils, equally divided, three on each
side. From this we get our Law of Three and know the reason why the change comes after two and in the
third period. The seventh opening in the head is the mouth and everything goes down. Study your seven-year
periods and see how your markets go down and make tops and bottoms.

Woman is more perfect than man because she can create. Her body contains 12 openings. Man's body only
contains 11. The 12 represents the 12 signs of the Zodiac. The fact that man's body only contains 11
openings proves why a man betrayed Christ and not a woman. Note the angle of 11 1/4 degrees. Note the
number 11 on all of your different charts. Study the position of 7 times 7 or 49 on all of your permanent
charts. The you will understand why the children of Israel marched 7 times around the walls of Jericho, blew
the ram's horn 7 times and the walls fell down on the 7th day. This law is also backed with Astrological proof,
but anything that can be proved in any way or by any science is not correct unless it can be proved by
numbers and by geometry.

The Time Cycles and every measurement of angles are represented by the human body. You have 5 fingers
on each hand. They are above the waistline or solar plexus and represent the 10-year cycle or the two 5-year
cycles, which are 1/4 and 1/2 of the 20-year cycles. You have 10 toes, but note that there are 5 on one side
and 5 on the other. This indicates that one 10-year cycle which is below the base line must run opposite to
the 10 above the base line, but that the 10 and 20-year tops and bottoms will come out according to the
proper measurements from the base or beginning point. Study the different divisions of your limbs. Note the 3
divisions of your fingers, and that the third joint or ends of your fingers are shorter than the other two, and that
the thumb really contains only two spaces or joints, where your fingers contain 3. Learn the secret of this and
you will learn why the thumb is so important. Study all of these Master charts, apply them to Space, Time and
you will find the cause of tops and bottoms and will know how to determine Resistance Levels. Go back over
any of the old charts you have and study the places where they have had the greatest resistance. Note the
price, then determine the time by weeks, months or days, and you will be able to learn how to understand
future movements. Look up the position of your Master Twelve Chart and your Square of Nine, then consider
your geometrical Angles from West to East, according to time, then consider your angles from the different
bases or beginning points and you will be able to determine the position of a stock.

The SQUARE OF NINE, the MASTER TWELVE SQUARE, and the GEOMETRICAL ANGLES are all
mathematical points and do not contradict each other but harmonize and prove up the different
mathematical points.

Jan. 17, 1931 W. D. Gann

SteveS said:

If memory is serving me, I think I talked with a person at Billy Jones Seminar in Chicago who said this book was coded written forecasting the Great Depression in the early 30s, but not sure about this.

I think you might be referring to his novel The Tunnel Thru the Air, also entitled Looking Back from 1940. It has many time cycle references as well as dates which might be clues for tracking in terms of astrology.

As for The Magic Word, what I found most interesting about it was getting a peek into how Gann thought about his life, especially his spiritual life outside of trading. However, one thing that really stood out to me is that he mentioned there is a time and season for all things, INCLUDING PRAYER! In the section "The Time to Repeat the Magic Word, Jehovah", he mentioned the best time to pray is morning, noon, and night. I never considered this before until I started getting into Vedic astrology and Ayurveda, where these are considered special times. Particularly, sunrise and sunset are considered to be "sandhi" (juncture) times which have special energies, especially for spiritual endeavors. So prayers and meditation and even yoga are considered to have a much more powerful effect if done at those time periods. This is further what set me on a path to finding some time keeping/calendar system that is in sync with nature or the cosmos. I feel our current time keeping practices have us so disconnected from natural rhythms that it's not even funny. I mean, 12 noon almost never represents the point of the day when the sun is culminating overhead; 6am has no relation to the time of sunrise, and then you add in daylight savings time to further increase confusion; the start of each month has nothing to do with anything in the skies or the seasons (it's just an arbitrary date that was chosen); the months have no connection with the rhythms of the moon; etc. It seems as the centuries have gone on, Western time keeping practices have become more and more disconnected from anything natural. That prevents us from seeing natural patterns around us. It makes me wonder how it affects spiritual activities as they have become more divorced from natural rhythms. It's funny that in many ancient societies, astronomy/astrology was viewed as the pinnacle of sciences. But now, it's considered an afterthought and taken for granted, especially in relation to time keeping.

So that's kind of what that book triggered for me. Also, it was a little concerning to me the way Gann tried to mix Jewish numerology with Western numerology. For instance, he said that "Jehovah" contains 7 letters and 3 syllables (I guess because he is trying to look for more instances of 7 and 3), and then began to make a bunch of conclusions off of that. But in Hebrew, it is considered to only have 4 letters! So his conclusion contradicts the very culture and texts that his idea is coming from. It really bothers me when people superimpose the rules of one language/culture on top of another, and expect the systems to just work. Then, even when he mentions that the letters in Hebrew are "Yod he vau he", he says it contains 10 letters. He is basing this off of the transcription into Roman letters, not how it is actually viewed in Hebrew. I may not know a lot about astrology, but I do know about languages. And to see him making a stretch like this regarding languages makes me wonder how many other times he has made a stretch in his material on trading.

Overall, though, I still found the book interesting, especially seeing him talk about donating, overall good moral character, mindfulness in both thoughts and words, and tending to your physical/mental well being.

[SteveS]

Yes Rings—that book was “The Tunnel Through the Air”, one of the two Gann books I leant out to never see again. And thanks for posting the Gann Article. For sure, he was a most interesting man with his writings.
Rings wrote:

And to see him making a stretch like this regarding languages makes me wonder how many other times he has made a stretch in his material on trading.

I hear where you are coming from Rings and maybe also stretches on the course material he sold to the public, but I do believe he found a-lot of JEHOVAH (GOD) in the markets with Natural Laws. No different as I find a lot of GOD in astrology; in myself with my Natal-- but a huge mystery for me but truly it put me on a path of pure adventure. I believe the ancients knew much more about Time (Astrology) than we know today, much has been lost. And I believe and understand where you are coming from—we must balance ourselves spiritually or we get ourselves in trouble. I will later tell you about the head soybean floor trader of Reffco Brokerage Company (many years ago) who knew all about keeping himself in balance spiritually---it is a most interesting story. Thanks for your posts Rings.

[SteveS]

Study the past if you would divine the future.

Confucius

[SteveS]

To finish my chance connection (Jup-Node) with the Admiral and the Gold Market. Admiral made me take extensive notes when he was teaching me about what was coming economically for the rest of my life because of Nixon having to close the Gold Standard the US Dollar was on in 1974, and what I had to do in order to avoid the economic perils as I aged with the likelihood I would never achieve a fully paid for house in my life. I did not believe him at first, but then he told me what to do with all of the Company’s Pension Fund $ and the Company’s Investment Portfolio, which the Company had given me the responsibly for all decisions. When what I witness soon after Admiral's investment advice, I defintely became a beleiver in his wisdom.

Admiral told me (Aug 1976) to go back home and call a special Board Meeting with a vote to put ALL Company’s $ in Gold Bullion, price of Gold around 100$ an ounce. He told me this Board motion would not pass majority, and he was right, I was basically laughed-out of the Board Room. I told the board members---to basically go screw themselves and if they did not follow Admiral’s advice—then I would no longer head-up the Company’s investment $. The Board compromised with me and only 70% majority saying they would allow me to invest all $ into Gold Stocks. I did, and the price of Gold soared to an all-time high of 850$ on Jan 20 1980 (A Gann Date). The Company Stockholders made huge profits on their Gold Stocks, but would have made 12.2 x more if they would have done what Admiral said to do—put all their Company’s $ into Gold Bullion.

But this is only part of the main story I want to convey with this Admiral/Gold story. By 1980, I had researched all the historical daily price charts for Gold & Soybeans and discovered that the markets were making major tops % bottoms exactly on these Gann 24 Dates. It took me 2 weeks (before the July Board Meeting in 1979) to prepare a presentation of this discovery to the Stockholders, and their minds were blown.

Now, go to the link below and scroll down about a third of the page until you get to the daily prices of GOLD BULLION for the entire year of 1980. Find Jan 21 1980 and you will note the all-time high for Gold was at 850$ an ounce. Note also Jan 21 was a Monday, remembering what I said when a Monday was a Gann Date. On Gann’s square of 4 Master Chart the actual Gann Date is Jan 20 (Sunday) with markets closed. 850$ an ounce was a major top made on a Gann Date and this price was not exceeded until 2008, hence a MAJOR TOP ON A GANN DATE.

But the year 1980 for the Gold Market contained two more important Gann Dates which turned the market on a dime to the exact dates of a Gann Date. Go to same link below and find May 22 (Thursday) 1980 and you will note Gold Bullion (cash London price---not futures price made a weekly/monthly low at 501$ an ounce.) You must understand these prices are cash prices with lag times behind the futures markets. If we had the actual daily charts of the futures market it would have shown a major Gann Date bottom on May 20 1980 which was the actual Gann Date on his Master Chart. Now go to Sept 23 1980 with the link below and you will note a price of 720$ an ounce. Sept 23 was a Tuesday and if we were looking at actual future prices for Gold on the commodity exchanges with their daily charts, we would see the exact top on Monday Sept 22, again another Monday. Sept 23 is the actual Gann Date on his Master Chart. I sold all the Company’s Gold Investments Stocks on Monday Sept 22 1980 for enormous profits. I became a hero to the Stockholders and a threat to the CEO of the Company. Try to look at the price graph for 1980 Bullion Prices of Gold for a better feel how these 3 Gann dates turned the Gold Market on a dime to the exact day of Gann's Dates on his Master Chart. I was able to get the stockholders of the Company to see the importance of these Gann Dates for turning markets to these exact dates.

But main point is not to glorify myself in a Jupiter way even though these were part of my glory Jupiter days. My main point is to try to convey to the few who may be interested-- the true fact: Gann was damn sure onto some kind of Timing Natural Law in the Market places with his Master Charts with their DATES. Next a Soybean story which is even more bizarre/unique (Uranus) for my life with a Gann Date TOP in April 1977. In 1977, I did not know anything about Gann.

***By the end 1980 I became convinced I better sit down with my wife and discuss with her in detail what Admiral taught to me in 1976 about what kind of economy we would be living in for the rest of lives and our # 1 Priority was to try and figure out a way to purchase a cheap house in order to be able to get it fully paid for by the time we retired. In 1984 we bought a run-down cheap (29K) 1888 historical summer cottage next to a rural natural spring in Springville. If we had not followed Admiral’s economic advice by buying this cheap house, I don’t think we would never found ourselves with a fully paid for roof over our heads. Admiral # 1 teaching instruction for my generation: Somehow figure out how to fully pay for a roof over your head or you may find yourselves living in your car or depending on other family members to take care of you with living quarters. I now see so many in my generation not having a fully paid for roof over their heads and are in deep emotional economic trouble.

Link to the entire daily price history of cash gold prices (not futures prices which are the more truer GANN dates) for the entire year of 1980. Cash prices always have a 1-2 lag time behind the actual future prices on commodity exchanges.

https://sdbullion.com/gold-prices-1980

[RingsOfSaturn22]

Yes Rings—that book was “The Tunnel Through the Air”, one of the two Gann books I leant out to never see again. And thanks for posting the Gann Article. For sure, he was a most interesting man with his writings.

You're in luck. As many universities have been digitizing their collections in recent years, The University of Connecticut has made The Tunnel Thru the Air available online. You can read it or download it here.

Rings wrote:

And to see him making a stretch like this regarding languages makes me wonder how many other times he has made a stretch in his material on trading.

I hear where you are coming from Rings and maybe also stretches on the course material he sold to the public, but I do believe he found a-lot of JEHOVAH (GOD) in the markets with Natural Laws. No different as I find a lot of GOD in astrology; in myself with my Natal-- but a huge mystery for me but truly it put me on a path of pure adventure. I believe the ancients knew much more about Time (Astrology) than we know today, much has been lost. And I believe and understand where you are coming from—we must balance ourselves spiritually or we get ourselves in trouble. I will later tell you about the head soybean floor trader of Reffco Brokerage Company (many years ago) who knew all about keeping himself in balance spiritually---it is a most interesting story. Thanks for your posts Rings.

I concur 100% with all that you wrote there. My personal belief is that God is present in all things. That includes astrology and financial markets. Astrology acts as a formalized tool for us to understanding the divine "mechanics" of the universe. The financial markets give us an unbiased testing ground — the numbers don't lie.

Thank you for sharing your story about the Admiral. It sounds like you met a sage or a prophet. How fortunate. Please do share the rest!

I was puzzled and when I met with him the first question he asked me was what kind of education I had. I told him zero, all I did in college was party. He stared into my eyes and paused and said, “Good, I can teach you something but first I need to see the last 10 years of the Company’s Financials including last 10 years of investments.”

This made me laugh out loud because it is 100% true!

Rings asked:

As a side note, I don't know if you have some of these Gann charts in your collection, but I've come across them over the years. Perhaps they will help you in your quest.

No, I have never seen these type charts Rings, interesting. Can you tell what Gann was doing with these charts? I think you have studied and know much more than me about Gann’s technical approach to markets, definitely interested in listening more about your Gann studies .

While I wish I could say I know a lot about Gann's technical approach, I'm afraid I don't know much at all. (That's my opinion.) When I first learned about him, I began reading any material on him I could find — that included his novel, any newspaper articles he wrote, interviews, a good amount of his recommended reading material, and of course the main trading material he wrote. I also tried to find people who studied his method and "claimed" to understand what he was doing. (Your mileage may vary with that crowd, but I digress.)

Naturally, after collecting all of this information and trying to test his methods, I was left a bit disappointed. I was left with one of 3 conclusions:

1. I have completely misunderstood what he is trying to convey
2. He has left out important information that makes the whole system work well
3. What he says simply just doesn't work well, only giving a marginal advantage, and thus, tactics for being a good trader are of utmost importance (which he stressed a lot).

I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that the problem was either 1 or 2 since it does seem like he was on to something profound, but I cannot completely rule out #3.

Some of the problems I ran into include:

1. He stresses the importance of the 45º angle for knowing when price and time have squared out and thus where there will be a reversal. But he never explains how you go about determining what constitutes "1 unit of price for 1 unit of time". The time part is clear. But with the way how the markets have exploded in price now compared to his time, how do we make that determination for something like the DOW or Bitcoin? Is it $100 per day? $120 per day? Or some other number? In his material itself, he would sometimes use 1 cent, 1 point, 1 dollar, or sometimes even 8-10 points per unit of time, but he never explained how to make this determination.
2. What is the master time factor? He often talked about this in his courses ad nauseam, but never actually revealed it. I suspect it might just simply be a relative proportioning of ANY interval, based on 8 and/or 3 (and subdivisions thereof), but I honestly have no clue.
3. Which is the correct great cycle to use? He says 60 years, then he says 49/50 years, then he says 90 years, then he says 100 years, and also mentions 1,000 years! He will say something is important, but then in the next breath, say something else is important, and then yet another thing is important, but doesn't really give a hierarchy of importance to make the information useable.
4. Considering how much the number 40 shows up in the Bible (which is supposedly the source of all his discoveries), I'm surprised he never used this anywhere! He only seems to fixate on 3, 7, 12, 10, and multiples thereof of these numbers, particularly the squares of these numbers.
5. As I have demonstrated in this thread, he often gives contradictory information, including regarding important dates. For instance, he tells you Jan. 5th is a seasonal date (15º from the winter solstice). Then he says Jan. 2-7, and 15-21 are important dates to watch at the beginning of the calendar year, but especially the first one. Then in another place, he tells you Jan. 7-10 and 19-24 are the important January dates. At this rate, he might as well tell you every day of the month is important.
6. He tells you from important tops and bottoms, look at the date 1, 2, and 3 years away from said point for important changes in trend. In most of the charts I reviewed, this just was not working for me. It would only show a very minor change in trend, if any change in trend at all!
7. He tells you to keep a list of the dates and durations of all major tops and bottoms because you will use that in your future forecasts. But, even in his own examples, from several important tops, he would show something like 23 months, 26 months, 30 months, 21 months. So, between all of those values, how are you supposed to decide what it will be for the NEXT important top/bottom? How do you know you're not going to get one of those fluke years that turn out to be much shorter or much longer than is typical?

And I could go on and on like this. His material has been an interesting but frustrating endeavor. But it did at least set me on the path of looking for patterns in the stock market in relation to astrology. The only thing of his that I managed to get working a decent amount of the time was his 50% level. He said after a stock has been following the main trend for some time, it will often retrace to the 50% level. In his own examples, it sometimes went to the 5/8 level. I have noticed the markets do often play out somewhere close to the 1/2 - 5/8 level when having a minor reversal from the main trend.

Also, changes in trend DO sometimes occur around seasonal dates, but I haven't been able to ascertain a particular methodology as to when it will actually occur this way.

Many of his charts were interesting, as they just seemed to mostly be calculators for various types of number series such as triangular numbers (for his triangle chart), centered hexagonal numbers (for his hexagon chart), and various types of square number series which he was using in his square of evens and odds. (Sometimes people mistakenly call these the square of 4 and the square of 9. When Gann referred to the square of 9, he was talking about this. I have the square of 9 there, and then the square of 12 so you can see the similarity, then the 6 square of 9 which he said formed a cube, and lastly the square of 19 which he also called the square of the circle. The square of odds is a centered square number series as found in the 2nd link below.) I find these interesting because each seems to reflect a different rate of growth/decay — rate of vibration. The polygonal number series represent an exponential growth, while his regular squares represent a linear growth. The tricky part is figuring out precisely which pattern a particular stock vibrates to. Seeing how much of the market has expanded in an exponential way and not a linear way, it leads me to believe one of these polygonal number series might apply. If you're really into math, geometry, and number series, much more can be found here. I have a field day with this kind of material. But trying to apply it to the financial markets and things in the natural world opened up an entirely new dimension for me. I believe this is what Pythagoras was doing, or at least attempting to do. It's what initially inspired me to study this particular topic. Also, since Gann kept talking about 3 dimensions and even 4 dimensions, these 3 dimensional expansion number series might also be worth checking out.

In regards to the two astrology wheels I linked previously, between the image quality and Gann's handwriting, I have a little bit of a hard time figuring out what is going on. In the ringed chart with the diamond in it, he is marking different major events in US history from its inception on Jul. 4, 1776, and writing the ecliptic longitude of certain planets in relation to those events. The 3 innermost rings seems to be the longitudes of single planets, while the 2nd ring from the outside seems to be all the aspects he was tracking. In the very center, you can see the 12 signs of the zodiac and how he cut each sign in half, making 15º segments. For instance, in the bottom right, 2nd ring from the outside, it looks like he wrote 1914, and then the symbols for Jupiter conjunct Uranus, 9º35' Aquarius. And it is correctly in the Aquarius section of the chart. On the innermost circle of that "slice", we see Saturn at 13 Aquarius (and I can't make out the minutes -- either 17, 27, or 37). For 1831, he wrote Jupiter conjunct Uranus 3º10' Aquarius. In 1843, we see Jupiter conjunct either Uranus or Neptune (can't tell) at 21º Aquarius. And so on. In the color image, he was basically marking the exact same things. If there was ever any doubt that Gann was using some form of astrology, or at least investigating, these charts (as well as many others) confirm. It's why I wonder what else was in those 2 Uhauls of material that Billy Jones transported!

[RingsOfSaturn22]

I have the daily charts for this in my storage facility. If someone can tell me how to post a link on the forum with a pic from my I-Phone of these daily gold charts, your mind would understand much better what I am trying to explain, that Gann explained in coded words with his course material about the importance of major tops and bottoms on either the monthly charts or yearly charts, its somewhat difficult for me to explain, explanations are much better understood with historical daily price charts.

After you have taken the pic on your phone, in the web browser on your phone, go to https://imgur.com. It will ask you to download the Imgur app. Once you download it, click the + button at the bottom to create a new post. Select "Files" to upload a photo. Add as many images as you want. Click Upload. Then make sure you go to the share button to grab the link for the post, and then you can post that link here.

Alternatively, you can email the pictures to yourself and then use the web based version of Imgur, which I find much easier to use and quicker. You would just click "new post" in the upper left hand corner, drag your picture onto the screen, click "Get link" in the upper right, and then you're done!

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

You're in luck. As many universities have been digitizing their collections in recent years, The University of Connecticut has made The Tunnel Thru the Air available online. You can read it or download it here.

This is great Rings! For the first time in my life I will have someone else to ask their opinion about some of Gann’s writings. This will be fun/interesting.
Rings wrote:

This made me laugh out loud because it is 100% true!

I don’t let school interfere with my education. Mark Twain

Rings wrote:

Thank you for sharing your story about the Admiral. It sounds like you met a sage or a prophet. How fortunate.

He was just a very wise man and I was at the right place at the right time to cross his path. The account executive at Merrill Lynch said he was appointed by US Government to sit in on the Britton Woods Agreement after WW11, when the winners of this tragic war was trying to figure-out how to financially rebuild/finance all the destructions from the War.
Rings wrote:

While I wish I could say I know a lot about Gann's technical approach, I'm afraid I don't know much at all. (That's my opinion.) When I first learned about him, I began reading any material on him I could find — that included his novel, any newspaper articles he wrote, interviews, a good amount of his recommended reading material, and of course the main trading material he wrote. I also tried to find people who studied his method and "claimed" to understand what he was doing. (Your mileage may vary with that crowd, but I digress.)

I understand Rings, obviously you and I share a-lot in common with certain market interests.
Rings wrote:

Naturally, after collecting all of this information and trying to test his methods, I was left a bit disappointed. I was left with one of 3 conclusions:
1: I have completely misunderstood what he is trying to convey
2: He has left out important information that makes the whole system work well
3: What he says simply just doesn't work well, only giving a marginal advantage, and thus, tactics for being a good trader are of utmost importance (which he stressed a lot).
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that the problem was either 1 or 2 since it does seem like he was on to something profound, but I cannot completely rule out #3.

Exactly Rings!!! Beautifully put into very intelligent words!
Rings wrote:

His material has been an interesting but frustrating endeavor. But it did at least set me on the path of looking for patterns in the stock market in relation to astrology.

I hear you Rings. When I was finished with my simplified research with Gann’s DATES on his Master Charts, I said to myself: Gee, if something in this Solar System can cause/calculate exact dates tops/bottoms in the market place, and with all of Gann’s subtle clues about astrology/astronomy---maybe I need to look into personal astrology for myself, and here we are Rings.
Rings wrote:

Also, changes in trend DO sometimes occur around seasonal dates, but I haven't been able to ascertain a particular methodology as to when it will actually occur this way.

Me too Rings. What I did is take the weekly charts/monthly and when I saw a market breaking to new highs or lows I would go to a brokerage office near-by and watch the price action closely playing close stops with certain financial vehicles. In other words, I made the market reverse directions on the exact Gann Date without making new highs or lows on the weekly charts. In this situations markets would always be over-bought or over sold on the weekly charts. I will try to give an example in the oil market later for much better understandings.
Rings wrote:

I believe this is what Pythagoras was doing,

TIME is the soul of everything in this World. Pythagoras

Most interesting Rings about those other two Gann Charts with the July 4 1776 USA Chart, indeed! Have you read Jim’s writings on financial panics with Sidereal Mundane Astrology? If not, we will try to get into that later, but it’s the best I have ever seen for isolating the pure timing symbolism for panics (Neptune). At least this would alert anybody with personal $ in the markets for high % for a possible financial panic.

Any I understand and agree with all your other points about your opinions with Gann Rings. Later

[RingsOfSaturn22]

Now, go to the link below and scroll down about a third of the page until you get to the daily prices of GOLD BULLION for the entire year of 1980. Find Jan 21 1980 and you will note the all-time high for Gold was at 850$ an ounce. Note also Jan 21 was a Monday, remembering what I said when a Monday was a Gann Date. On Gann’s square of 4 Master Chart the actual Gann Date is Jan 20 (Sunday) with markets closed. 850$ an ounce was a major top made on a Gann Date and this price was not exceeded until 2008, hence a MAJOR TOP ON A GANN DATE.

But the year 1980 for the Gold Market contained two more important Gann Dates which turned the market on a dime to the exact dates of a Gann Date. Go to same link below and find May 22 (Thursday) 1980 and you will note Gold Bullion (cash London price---not futures price made a weekly/monthly low at 501$ an ounce.) You must understand these prices are cash prices with lag times behind the futures markets. If we had the actual daily charts of the futures market it would have shown a major Gann Date bottom on May 20 1980 which was the actual Gann Date on his Master Chart. Now go to Sept 23 1980 with the link below and you will note a price of 720$ an ounce. Sept 23 was a Tuesday and if we were looking at actual future prices for Gold on the commodity exchanges with their daily charts, we would see the exact top on Monday Sept 22, again another Monday. Sept 23 is the actual Gann Date on his Master Chart. I sold all the Company’s Gold Investments Stocks on Monday Sept 22 1980 for enormous profits. I became a hero to the Stockholders and a threat to the CEO of the Company. Try to look at the price graph for 1980 Bullion Prices of Gold for a better feel how these 3 Gann dates turned the Gold Market on a dime to the exact day of Gann's Dates on his Master Chart. I was able to get the stockholders of the Company to see the importance of these Gann Dates for turning markets to these exact dates.

But main point is not to glorify myself in a Jupiter way even though these were part of my glory Jupiter days. My main point is to try to convey to the few who may be interested-- the true fact: Gann was damn sure onto some kind of Timing Natural Law in the Market places with his Master Charts with their DATES. Next a Soybean story which is even more bizarre/unique (Uranus) for my life with a Gann Date TOP in April 1977. In 1977, I did not know anything about Gann.

***By the end 1980 I became convinced I better sit down with my wife and discuss with her in detail what Admiral taught to me in 1976 about what kind of economy we would be living in for the rest of lives and our # 1 Priority was to try and figure out a way to purchase a cheap house in order to be able to get it fully paid for by the time we retired. In 1984 we bought a run-down cheap (29K) 1888 historical summer cottage next to a rural natural spring in Springville. If we had not followed Admiral’s economic advice by buying this cheap house, I don’t think we would never found ourselves with a fully paid for roof over our heads. Admiral # 1 teaching instruction for my generation: Somehow figure out how to fully pay for a roof over your head or you may find yourselves living in your car or depending on other family members to take care of you with living quarters. I now see so many in my generation not having a fully paid for roof over their heads and are in deep emotional economic trouble.

Link to the entire daily price history of cash gold prices (not futures prices which are the more truer GANN dates) for the entire year of 1980. Cash prices always have a 1-2 lag time behind the actual future prices on commodity exchanges.

https://sdbullion.com/gold-prices-1980

The exact 300º mark was hit on Jan. 20, 1980 at 5PM NYC time, so this worked out well! The high of 850 in terms of a spot price also occurred on Jan. 21, 1980. The futures high was 873, and it occurred right at the open, so this all makes sense!

The exact 60º point was May 20, 1980 at 5:50PM NYC time. This would have been after the markets already closed for the day. Gold futures made its low of 500 on May 22nd as the open price. There were even lower prices in the weeks prior to that. It seems like the actual low of 453 occurred on Mar. 27, 1980. If we go by the spot gold price, however, a low of 481.50 occurred on Mar. 18, 1980, which is very close to a Gann date! The Gann date occurred on Mar. 20, 1980 at 6:10AM NYC time.

According to the spot gold chart, a high of $711 was reached exactly on Sept. 23, 1980! Actual Gann date was Sept. 22, 1980 at 5:09PM NYC time. Markets would have been closed already, so the high coming out on the 23rd makes sense. On the futures chart, the high of 748.50 occurred on Sept. 23rd. You did an excellent job by selling on the 22nd!

Here are your gold futures prices and dates: https://stooq.com/q/d/?s=gc.f&i=d&d1=19 ... 801020&l=3
For spot gold prices, go here: https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/gold-prices

I'm happy that you heeded the admiral's advice regarding housing!

[SteveS]

I never followed cash prices when I was charting for Gann Dates, only closest futures contract prices with the most open interest. I will try later to post the exact monthly future contacts I was tranking for exact Gann Dates in 1980. I am not sure what the exact 15 degree interval of days (dates) calculated from the Spring Equinox in 1979 and 1980.

[RingsOfSaturn22]

In light of our conversation today, it's interesting how gold has spiked today, going up to $2,009. The Gann date is Oct. 23, 2023 at 12:26PM NYC time. I wonder if that will indicate a reversal? We've hit one of the natural Gann price levels today, $2,000, and don't seem to be holding above it. I wonder if this will reverse before the Gann date.

Most interesting Rings about those other two Gann Charts with the July 4 1776 USA Chart, indeed! Have you read Jim’s writings on financial panics with Sidereal Mundane Astrology? If not, we will try to get into that later, but it’s the best I have ever seen for isolating the pure timing symbolism for panics (Neptune). At least this would alert anybody with personal $ in the markets for high % for a possible financial panic.

I believe I read it a few years ago, but that was when I was first getting into sidereal astrology, and it was a lot to digest at that time. Maybe it's time to revisit that now?

I never followed cash prices when I was charting for Gann Dates, only closest futures contract prices with the most open interest. I will try later to post the exact monthly future contacts I was tranking for exact Gann Dates in 1980. I am not sure what the exact 15 degree interval of days (dates) calculated from the Spring Equinox in 1979 and 1980.

(All times in NYC time, including DST)

1979-1980
0º - Mar. 21, 12:13AM
15º - Apr 5, 4:09AM
30º - Apr 20, 11:27AM
45º - May 5, 10:38PM
60º - May 21, 11:45AM
75º - Jun 6, 2:56AM
90º - Jun 21, 7:47PM
105º - Jul 7, 1:16PM
120º - Jul 23, 6:40AM
135º - Aug 7, 11:02PM
150º - Aug 23, 1:38PM
165º - Sept 8, 1:51AM
180º - Sept 23, 11:08AM
195º - Oct 8, 5:21PM
210º - Oct 23, 8:19PM
225º - Nov 7, 7:24PM
240º - Nov 22, 4:45PM
255º - Dec 7, 12:09PM
270º - Dec 22, 6:01AM
285º - Jan 5, 1980, 11:20PM
300º - Jan. 20, 4:40PM, 305 days after vernal equinox
315º - Feb 4, 11:01AM
330º - Feb 19, 6:53AM
345º - Mar 5, 5:08AM
360º - Mar 20, 6:01AM


1980-1981
0º - Mar. 20, 6:01AM
15º - Apr 4, 10:06AM
30º - Apr 19, 5:14PM
45º - May 5, 4:36AM
60º - May 20, 5:33PM
75º - Jun 5, 8:55AM
90º - Jun 21, 1:38AM
105º - Jul 6, 7:15PM
120º - Jul 22, 12:33PM
135º - Aug 7, 5AM
150º - Aug 22, 7:32PM
165º - Sept 7, 7:45AM
180º - Sept 22, 5PM
195º - Oct 7, 11:10PM
210º - Oct 23, 2:09AM
225º - Nov 7, 1:10AM
240º - Nov 21, 10:33PM
255º - Dec 6, 5:53PM
270º - Dec 21, 11:47AM
285º - Jan 5, 1981, 5:04AM
300º - Jan 19, 10:27PM
315º - Feb 3, 4:47PM
330º - Feb 18, 12:43PM
345º - Mar 5, 10:56AM
360º - Mar 20, 11:54AM

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

In light of our conversation today, it's interesting how gold has spiked today, going up to $2,009. The Gann date is Oct. 23, 2023 at 12:26PM NYC time. I wonder if that will indicate a reversal? We've hit one of the natural Gann price levels today, $2,000, and don't seem to be holding above it. I wonder if this will reverse before the Gann date.

Yes this is interesting! I have not checked Gold for today or this week. I would become keenly interested if the Gold Market tested it’s all-time high I think around 2,100$, and only if it did exactly on the Gann Date of Oct 23, this would we require another price spike. But even if it gets close to it’s all time high Gann would definitely be interested in watching the Gold Market on his Gann Date Oct 23. In Gann’s book “How to Make Profits in the Commodity Markets” he repeated over and over how old highs and lows were very important to watch for testing and then failing/reversing. This weekend I will look closely at the Gold Charts and we will watch this possible important development closely on Monday the 23rd. But for sure on the weekly charts we are already seeing extreme prices, and the markets have to be at extreme prices before I will even consider looking for a major Gann Date top or bottom. Let me go look at all of my technicals with the charts. Thanks for bringing this gold spike to my attention, I will definitely get back with you before the market opens Monday.
Rings wrote:

Maybe it's time to revisit that now?

No big deal now but it is most interesting from a historical market standpoint, Jim’s analysis IMHO nails all the financial panics with clear Neptune Markers that turned the markets on the yearly charts for years. We can take it up later when we have more time to discuss with Jim’s input with any of his thoughts.

Thanks a-lot Rings for the exact 15 degree interval Gann Dates for 1979 & 1980. I have got to dig my 1980 Gold charts out of a huge box sitting next to my desk, and then figure out if they match-up with your link dates. I think I was looking at the March & Dec 1980 contracts, Maybe the May contract.

[SteveS]

OK Rings, just brought-up the online 5 year Yearly Gold Chart (link below) with prices taken from the nearest traded contracts before expirations. Note by moving your cursor over the individual bars when the 3 highs were made on:
Week of:
8/03/ 2020 2,063$
3/07/2022 2,072$
5/01/2023 2,O72$
I need to go back to other sites and see if any of the above 3 trading weeks were an exact Gann Date. If so, Gann would mark that top as the key one for his other timing methods.

https://www.barchart.com/futures/quotes ... tive-chart

But note: Gann would classify this as triple top on the monthly/yearly charts with what appears to be a fourth test coming soon. If by chance we see this 4th test happen Monday on the exact Gann Date of Oct 23---this would be huge for this reason:

Gann said whenever you have a forth test of a major top on the yearly charts, in most cases it will be the final test of the 3 previous tops with huge reversals taking place for a long term down movement. But he said if the price closes above the 3 other tops (2,072$) you will see much higher prices to come with very a very fast market. Checking Gann’s favorite chart (Weekly) for technicals….later.

[SteveS]

OK Rings, just checked the weekly (Gann's favorite chart to use for trading) Gold Chart at the link below with my favorite technical indicator, The Relative Strength Indicator:

https://www.barchart.com/futures/quotes ... tive-chart

Go to the link and scroll down past the price chart and you will see The Relative Strength Indicator with its last number at 58 for todays bar price. This is not an overbought strength number!!! It has to get 70 or higher for the market to become over bought. This clearly tells me it needs to test the all-time high prices of the other 3 major tops on the yearly chart I posted in the post before this post. If there is bad, bad news over the weekend with the sick Middle East situation, the gold market would have at least a 50% or higher % to test the previous 3 tops on the yearly chart between a price of at least 2,062-2,072 or maybe higher, running all the sell stops from the previous 3 tops and trapping the bulls with more buying!!! You do understand where I am coming from?

Now, back in the old days with my glory days I would call all the stockholders for a phone vote and tell em I see what could be high% for a major top in the gold market, and for em to vote on risking 10% of Company funds for a major short trade with a stop above 2,072% only on the weekly charts (next Friday's close). What this would mean is this:

I would go to a brokerage office nearby my office with a private room for me with a screen where I could closely watch the gold market prices on Monday the 23rd. When and if I saw the market trade at 2,062 (first major top on the yearly charts), I would start a short selling procedure for the company, by short selling forward future gold contracts with the highest open interest (amount of trades for best liquidity), and then if I saw the gold market close over 2100 by ext Friday (weekly chart), I would exit the trade at no more than 10% risk of the Company Funds. Do you see/understand where I am coming from Rings? But back in my glory days I would have access to the main floor trader in Chicago with the Brokerage Company that my Company had an account with. This would allow that floor trader to communicate with me as far as who he saw as the main traders’ active in the gold market on this Gann Date. Were they small traders buying/selling or large smart money buying, the floor trader would also be able to tell me the certain key things about the psychology of the market (a key) on this Gann Date. But only if the Gold Market was testing the previous 3 tops on the yearly charts on Monday the 23rd—an exact Gann Date. If the market was not testing the 3 previous highs on the yearly charts, I would do nothing on the 23rd, and patiently wait for another possible Gann Date to execute some trades for the Company.

Let’s see if anything happens very upsetting in the Middle East this weekend to see if there is good possibilities for a 4th test of the 3 other gold tops on the 23rd –an exact Gann Date. You see Rings---this is WHY Gann repeatedly said it is most important to watch closely when markets are testing major old top or bottoms only on the yearly charts

I will check the price pulse of gold market Sunday night. Have a great weekend Rings.

[SteveS]

Rings, looking at some of my Gann material I pulled out of storage last week. It’s been years since I have gone through a-lot of this material, found this for your interest from Billy Jones:

When I purchased the Gann Copyrights and his personal effects, which included his books, papers, all his charts, research and records, there was so much material that I am still working my way through it.

This was two years after he purchased Gann Copyrights, sometime in the mid-70s or later if my memory is serving me. This was taken from Jones pamphlet titled “The W.D. Gann Commodity Trading Course.” I think, again if memory is serving me: when I had dinner with Billy in Chicago after I told him and his seminar audience that the Dates on Gann’s Square of Four Master Charts were 15 degrees intervals of the Sun’s movement from the Spring Equinox, Billy told me he and another family member flew into Miami and rented two U-haulers to take all of Gann’s material back to Washington State. Where did you get the two Gann Charts you posted with the July 4 1776 date on it?

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

Here are your gold futures prices and dates: https://stooq.com/q/d/?s=gc.f&i=d&d1=19 ... 801020&l=3

Rings, the low price for Gold on May 1 1980 482$ definitely does not match my daily price charts for 1980. My daily price charts show the low yearly low occurring one day off the Gann Date May 21, after the all-time high on Jan 20 1980. Rings I can take a picture of my daily price charts with my I-Phone, but I don’t know how to put this pic into a link to post. I must put it into a link, not the pic itself or it will eat into Jim’s BW causing more expenses to Jim. Do you know how I can get this pic into a link? We need to be able to do this in order where we both can look at what each one has with certain price charts or Gann Master Charts.

[SteveS]

Because of my personal experience with my entire life up to 76 with the # 1 event to ever occur in my life on the exact day of the event Oct 30 1987, with t Sun partile cnj my Solar Arc Sun, I strongly feel that Jan 6 2022 on an exact Gann Date in the DOW-- with strong Solar Arc symbolism symbolism outer planet transits with t Sun partile cnj Solar Arc Sun with this NYSE Chart, I strongly feel the DOW has at least a 50% chance of becoming the all-time high for many more years. If by the end of 2024 the DOW has not made new all-time highs with a weekly close over the Jan 6 2022 DOW highs, I will move this % up to 75% probability. I hope I am wrong with my gut instincts here! Also another strong factor in my statement here is: We had a t Sun partile cnj Solar Arc Sun on Sept 3 1929 which was an all-time high form the May 17 1792 inception radical of the NYSE, and this all-time was not exceeded for many years after Sept 2 1929 all-time high. I doubt if I will ever get around to doing the necessary research for added further proof with my gut instincts about t Sun partile cnj Solar Arc Sun only with major tops or bottoms in the market place, but that’s what my gut instincts are telling me with my limiter research.

Below is a tri-wheel link chart for NYSE (inside Natal; middle Solar Arcs; outside transits.)
https://ibb.co/M7VL66L

We can clearly see the important outer planet transits of Saturn-Uranus partile 90 & 180 Solar Arc MC for this Jan 6 2022 Gann Date Top (IMHO symbolizing a major trend change), and t Jupiter partile cnj Solar Arc ASC, (probably symbolizing a major Gann Date Top). But clearly understand why I am making this statement: t Sun partile was partile cnj Solar Arc Sun for a major event in the DOW, a Gann Date Top of Jan 6 2022. Again, I hope I am dead wrong on this piece of intuitive analysis.

[Jim Eshelman]

Every now and then, Steve, I get tickled at just how splendidly you act out the synastry between your chart and Gann's chart. With his Mercury 1°14' from your Descendant and 0°33' from opposite your Jupiter, read what I previously wrote about Mercury-Angle (Gann's Mercury and your angle) and Mercury-Jupiter (Gann's Mercury, your Jupiter) here:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=244#p1636

I wish I knew what to make of contacts like his Ascendant being within 1° of your MC, but it certainly looks significant. (It shares the Regulus contact, at least.)

But the thing I just noticed for the first time this morning (had never looked before) is that his Novien Moon is 2°33' Virgo - exactly on your Sun and square your Uranus!

And, of course, Gann was born on a Gann Date

[SteveS]

very Jim. I never will forget when I read my first article on Gann and saw his Master Charts--- one of those invisible waves swept across my mind, and a little voice inside me said---yes—that’s what you have been looking for to solve the dilemma of what I didn’t want from the stockholders when they assigned me the task of taking over Company investments. Our World/Life/God works in Mysterious ways, and I love it.

Gann’s birth data?

[Jim Eshelman]

Gann’s birth data?

Oh, I thought you had it. (It's even in my 1,000-person example chart file for the book.)

Gann was born June 6, 1878, 10:34 AM LMT, Lufkin, TX. It's A data, ultimately from Gann: Robert Zoller found Gann's own chart for himself in his papers. (There is a biography where his son - who kinda hated him - gave completely other data, being even 12 days off on the birth, so there is no reason to trust anything else he said about the birth.)

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Oh, I thought you had it. (It's even in my 1,000-person example chart file for the book.)

I did have it when I first started getting into astrology/the Gann material. If I remember correctly the astrologer/tarot reader who first told me the Gann Master chart I sent my cousin in Houston was astrologically related was able to get Gann’s birth data, but this was the pre-computer days and I did not have the mathematical skills to compute a Natal. I probably ignored having his birth data. But now—things have changed to a much more serious outlook on astrology.

(There is a biography where his son - who kinda hated him - gave completely other data, being even 12 days off on the birth, so there is no reason to trust anything else he said about the birth.)

Very interesting, I had no idea his son hated him. I do remember when my cousin and I did some research on Gann from his early days in Lufkin, I think Gann was born into poverty and eventually went to work for a cotton gin as one of his first employments for a company. Thanks for this Jim, I will get into his Natal and see what my mind sees.

[SteveS]

Jim, just now got into Gann’s Natal for the first time and was put into awe with his angualr Natal symbolism! Now I understand with pure astrological symbolism so much more about WHY I was attracted to this Market Legend work through his Mercury. Never in my entire life have I researched a man’s profession like I have with Gann’s work, and now Jim-- like you pointed out the WHY this man attracted my mind with his Mercury research with his Mercury all over my horizon with my Jup-Node, a pure revelation for me. I now clearly understand so much more as to the WHY he had such laser focus with the markets with his 0,11 direct mundo midpoint of Me/Pl=MC; astrologically understanding with his Me-Pl in the foreground of his MC, powerful Natal Me-Pl stuff here. Also his partile angular Moon-Uranus cnj in a tight class 1 mundo 90 to his angular Mercury for the uniqueness/genius of his work. The man blew me away with the amount of work he had to do with investigating the entire history of price charts; with me definitely confirming with Billy Jones the amount of Gann’s paper work (charts) he purchase from Gann/Lambert publishing house, unbelievable. Now I clearly understand so much more with the rich symbolism of Gann’s 0,03 direct midpoint of Ma/SA = MC. Ebertin COSI for this combo:

Indefatigable

(with difficult hard work).

And great observation Jim with Regulus on his ASC with a rising Leo Moon (King), Gann truly became known in his day as a Market KING!

Thanks so much Jim---many astrological revelations here for me with Gann who I consider a Genius in his own rights—a self-made KING through very difficult market research. Never have come across a person such as Gann with such a “stunning/shocking” (Pluto) Natal aspected Mercury. And Jim—he was another one of those Taurus….

[SteveS]

Jim Eshelman is the most intelligent astrologers I have had the pleasure of knowing when it comes to relocational astrology. Many of the members on this forum have read many posts from Jim about relocating their Natal’s/SSRs for various objectives/reasons. Since Jim just posted W.D. Gann’s A rated Natal Chart, here is Gann’s relocated Natal to NY in 1908, it stunned me for so much astrological truth. I know for sure Gann in 1908 moved to New York to pursue a Career on Wall Street as a Stock Market Trader. Just take a look (link below) at Gann’s relocated Natal to New York. This is the location he became known as a most famous Market Guru Legend. I have met people from other parts of World who knew/heard about this Market Legend. Take a look at this partile relocated Sun partile cnj MC:

https://ibb.co/hFxGBfW

Jim, did I do this right or I am in error with the way I relocated it with Solar Fire??

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes - I forgot about this. Blew me away, too. I had it calculated for Brooklyn: Since he died there, I assume he lived there. Also, Brooklyn is just across the bridge from the NY financial district (Wall Street etc.), so the coordinates are probably slightly better than the usual NYC coordinates (which are for central Manhattan).

I suspect, though, you didn't see the real genius element of NY for him: Not only is Sun 0°18' off MC for Brooklyn, but his Moon-Uranus conjunction (especially Uranus) is on the Antivertex. This gives a stunningly precise Sun-Uranus square unique to that locale (supported by wider but still close Moon-Sun square). Here are the azimuth positions with the angles thrown in by longitude also. Note that the mundane contacts (azimuth) are clearly the stronger ones. The columns are azimuth, planet, then longitude. In longitude, MC is 22°27' Taurus, Vx 4°023' Aquarius.

28°48' Moon {3°37' Leo}
0°00' MC/IC/Vx/AV
0°19' Uranus {2°49' Leo}
0°56' Sun {22°45' Tau} [but 0°18' MC in PVL]

A 0°37' Sun-Uranus square only in that place!

While this exact angularity and this precisely angular azimuth paran are the outstanding factors, there is still more. For New York his already-close ecliptic Moon-Uranus square Pluto is partile and near-partile mundanely. He also has one fascinating mundane aspect: A 0°19' Jupiter-Neptune square. Usually with Jupiter-Neptune we see making bad money choices, but the root idea, I think, is that SPECULATION is central. (The losses are just because most people don't know how to speculate profitably.)

I haven't even checked his paran switches yet - this was enough for me at the moment

[SteveS]

Simply amazing Jim! I will get back to this relocation later.

[Jim Eshelman]

I haven't even checked his paran switches yet - this was enough for me at the moment

OK, I might as well finish these, since we were looking at the phenomenon natally and locally recently. Here are Gann's parans within 1° for birthplace: Most of them, of course, are also natal ecliptical aspects, with only Mars-Neptune and Mercury-Jupiter being new.

Mars-Neptune 0°07'
Moon-Uranus 0°10'
Mercury-Pluto 0°13'
Moon-Mercury 0°41'
Mercury-Uranus 0°44'
Mercury-Jupiter 0°57'

Here are Gann's parans for Brooklyn:

Moon-Uranus 0°10'
Jupiter-Pluto 0°18'
Venus-Mars 0°56'
Venus-Jupiter 0°59'

There it is: Jupiter square Pluto for Brooklyn.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

There it is: Jupiter square Pluto for Brooklyn.

My Holy God in the heavens Jim you are so right--"there it is"! This Jup-Pl along with all the other parans for both locations for sure tell me he discovered market natural laws, at the very least, which made him fortunes, weather he was able to keep these fortunes---who knows for sure? Some more writings from Jones:

Gann cleared millions by using the principles and rules which made him become recognizable as one of the most successful traders in the world.
Here are some excerpts from an old---December 1909---issue of “The Ticker and Investment Digest, and was sent to the Foundation by Renato P. Alghini, who is a member of the Foundation:

Gann talking to a reported from the “Investment Digest” (ID):
I devoted ten years of my life to the study of natural law as applicable to the speculative markets to devote my best energies toward making speculation a profitable profession. After exhaustive researches and investigations of the known sciences, I discovered the Law of Vibration enabled me to accurately determine the exact points to which stocks or commodities should rise and fall within a given time.

Reporter from the ID:

In order to substantiate Mr. Gann’s claims as to what he has been able to do under this method, we called upon A Mr. William E. Gilley, an inspector of imports, 16 Beaver Street, New York. Mr. Gilley is well—known in the downtown district. When asked what had been the most impressive of Mr. Gann’s work and predictions, he replied as follows:

“It is very difficult for me to remember all the predictions and operations of Mr. Gann which would have to be seen to believe, they are phenomenal, but the following are a few (only one-maybe some more later): In 1908 when Union Pacific was 168 he told me that it would not touch 169 before it had a good break. We sold it short all the way down to 153 before covering our profits. Mr. Gann’s calculations are based on natural law. I have followed his work closely for years. Yes, we have made a great deal of money. He has taken half a million out of the market in the past few years. I once saw him take $130, and in less than one month run it up to over $12,000. He can compound money faster than any man I ever met. I do not believe any other man on earth can duplicate his methods and market successes at the present time.”

There are many more exact market examples Gilley offers in the same article from the ID that are just as phenomenal and more so than the one cited above. What I simply did when attempting to prove Gann’s dates on his Master Charts were turning markets on a dime to the exact days of major tops and bottoms, I purchased about 20 years of daily price charts in a couple of markets to prove to myself markets were indeed turning on these dates. It was a simple task for me to prove to my mind, but tedious research. I was blown away these Gann Dates were turning the markets on their exact day for major tops and bottoms.
And now, thanks for Jim posting Gann’s birth data, we have pure astrological valid symbolism using the principles of Western Sidereal Astrology that Gann was born with the Soul to “compound money faster” than any man on the planet. Just listening to my words about Gann’s Master Dates does not mean anything to you, but if you could see some of the daily charts I have which show these Gann Dates turning the market on a time for a major term market top or bottom your mind would be able to see and then understand part of a timing natural law he discovered with his Master Dates, a picture is worth much more than words. Maybe more later.

[RingsOfSaturn22]

Wow. A lot has happened in this thread since Friday!

@SteveS

It's fascinating seeing part of your chart aligns with Gann's!

Thank you for sharing your experience regarding how you would trade the current gold futures. I have just a few comments on that:

OK Rings, just brought-up the online 5 year Yearly Gold Chart (link below) with prices taken from the nearest traded contracts before expirations. Note by moving your cursor over the individual bars when the 3 highs were made on:
Week of:
8/03/ 2020 2,063$
3/07/2022 2,072$
5/01/2023 2,O72$
I need to go back to other sites and see if any of the above 3 trading weeks were an exact Gann Date. If so, Gann would mark that top as the key one for his other timing methods.

https://www.barchart.com/futures/quotes ... tive-chart

For the weeks that you mentioned, the highs that you gave are a little low. For some reason, if you set the date range to the chart to a longer period, it changes the frequency to "Weekly Nearby", which seems to give incorrect highs and lows. If you change it to just "Weekly", you will get the following highs:

Week of 8/3/2020 -- 2,150.30 made on 8/6/2020
Week of 3/7/2022 -- 2,080.10 made on 3/9/2022
Week of 5/1/2023 -- 2,116.20 made on 5/4/2023

I will also add in a few lows that I noticed:

Week of 9/24/2018 -- major low of 1,373.20 on 9/27/2018 (formed a double bottom of 1,373.90 five weeks prior during the week of 8/20/2018)
Week of 3/8/2021 - low of 1,718.70 on 3/8/2021 (nearly formed a double bottom 3 weeks later)
Week of 9/26/2022 - low of 1,710.00 on 9/28/2022 (nearly formed triple bottom 3 weeks later, and then 2 weeks after that)

What's interesting here is the low from the week of 9/24/2018 and the low from the week of 9/26/2022 are perfectly 4 years apart -- 4*360º. Gann says to watch for important reversals 1, 2, and 3 years after important tops and bottoms, but this one is interesting.

Also, the low made the week of 3/8/2021 and the high made the week of 3/7/2022 is just about a near perfect 360º. (If I knew the exact hour these lows and highs were made, I could confirm, but this is as close as it get. I consider this to be a dead on hit!)

I took each of those dates and made a chart in Excel, dividing the year into 8ths, and also dividing the year into 24 parts, and then figured out what the corresponding date would be for each of the 5 dates above. (i.e. 5/8 of a year from the low on 9/27/2018 would be 5/13/2019. We should then look for that same date, give or take a day, in the following years moving forward. This is one of the ways in which he was using those even and odd numbered charts -- to make these calculations easier.) I wanted to see if any of the reversal points were exact proportions of each other, as would be expected from his material. The results were highly disappointing. Not a single match. The closest matches would be off by 3-4 days at best, but usually more.

I will add, however, there was a low of 1,520 on 3/18/2020. The next major low was made on 3/8/2021, 355 days later. 355/365=97.3%, not even close to any of the significant Gann numbers. (Very ironically, though, in one of the quotes I posted from 45 Years in Wall Street, he erroneously stated the date range as being 355 days, even though it was actually lower. The reason this stood out to me so strongly is because 355 days is a lunar year, the lunar year being 354.36 days!) On 3/19/2021, there was a very, very minor high that occurred in between the double bottom.

Between the double bottom on 3/8/2021 and 3/30/2021, it is 22 days, which IS one Gann said to watch out for (22-1/2 days being half of 45)! (The angular difference in position of the moon between these two dates (assuming a time of 12 noon for both) is just a few minutes over an exact 285º which Gann listed as important.) That's just about 1/32 of a year, which Gann did say to watch out for. But a 32nd of a year is one of his minor numbers, yet this was an important low! So it's confusing. None of the portions of the year that are supposed to be important turn up anything worth while!

This is why I have a love-hate relationship with Gann. You get a few things that look amazing, followed by a lot of things that don't work.

[RingsOfSaturn22]

Where did you get the two Gann Charts you posted with the July 4 1776 date on it?

One came from Bonnie Hill's site. She has a small handful of some of Gann's original charts.

The color one, I can't remember where I found it. It might have been from an Italian Gann web site https://www.gannworld.it. (When I'm looking for info on a topic, I will search for it numerous ways. Sometimes I just do a Google image search, which is more than likely how I found that picture. Other times, I will search the same topic in multiple languages, because you can get VASTLY different information once you get outside of English!)

I don't know if you've seen the one chart where he was tracking May soy beans, and he drew trend lines based on the tropical ecliptic longitudes of Jupiter for each day. He was using the tropical ecliptic longitude both as price and resistance/support points. He also clearly marked off Jupiter at 30º Saggitarius, which naturally would have been one of his seasonal positions. (He started Jupiter at around 263º on the chart, so 270º was coming up in a matter of a few weeks.) There are other charts where he is seen doing similar things, sometimes tracking two planets. This makes me wonder what kind of treasures were in Jones' UHaul trucks!!!

In his Soy Beans Price Resistance Levels (from either 1954 or 1955), he starts converting prices into degrees of the zodiac, and shows how his "Gann dates" were indeed envisioned as being degrees of the zodiac! 180 days was really envisioned as 180º. He also mentions 6 planets and watching them heliocentrically and geocentrically. In practice, I couldn't get this to work consistently. (He seemed to be using tropical ecliptic longitudes. When I followed his charts and used sidereal longitudes, the resistance points wouldn't line up correctly.) There was an entire handwritten page converting prices into ecliptic coordinates and other things. (Have trouble understanding some of his handwriting.) He also had a table with Saturn and Jupiter, and different levels of prices as it goes through different signs?

It's all very fascinating. But this leads to back to this question again. I'm sure Gann had to be aware of the sidereal zodiac, especially at this point in the 1950s. Yet, it didn't seem he was using it for anything. He seemed to focus more on the tropical zodiac, and I can't wrap my mind around why. It makes me think of something Edgar Cayce once said. Someone was asking him about astrology, and more specifically, the differences between the tropical and sidereal zodiac. His response was short, but he said the tropical zodiac was better to use in the financial markets, while the sidereal zodiac was better when dealing with the births of people. I have had this stuck in my head ever since, because even in Vedic astrology, they have something similar, in the sense that the tropical zodiac is to be used more with things involving the seasons and the karma of the earth, but everything else is to use the sidereal zodiac, especially when dealing with nativities. I wonder, since Gann was mostly dealing with commodities like wheat, corn, soy, etc., most of this would indeed deal with SEASONAL factors. He kept talking about seasonal factors affecting commodities all throughout his works. So using the tropical zodiac for something like this would make sense. But then, if Gann were around today and had to deal with something like Tesla, Amazon, or Apple, would he still use the tropical zodiac?

[RingsOfSaturn22]

Rings wrote:

Here are your gold futures prices and dates: https://stooq.com/q/d/?s=gc.f&i=d&d1=19 ... 801020&l=3

Rings, the low price for Gold on May 1 1980 482$ definitely does not match my daily price charts for 1980. My daily price charts show the low yearly low occurring one day off the Gann Date May 21, after the all-time high on Jan 20 1980. Rings I can take a picture of my daily price charts with my I-Phone, but I don’t know how to put this pic into a link to post. I must put it into a link, not the pic itself or it will eat into Jim’s BW causing more expenses to Jim. Do you know how I can get this pic into a link? We need to be able to do this in order where we both can look at what each one has with certain price charts or Gann Master Charts.

That's interesting. I wonder why there is a discrepancy between the data?

I don't know if you saw this post earlier, as there have been a lot of replies in this thread, but this explains how to get the image on here without eating up Jim's resources.

I have the daily charts for this in my storage facility. If someone can tell me how to post a link on the forum with a pic from my I-Phone of these daily gold charts, your mind would understand much better what I am trying to explain, that Gann explained in coded words with his course material about the importance of major tops and bottoms on either the monthly charts or yearly charts, its somewhat difficult for me to explain, explanations are much better understood with historical daily price charts.

After you have taken the pic on your phone, in the web browser on your phone, go to https://imgur.com. It will ask you to download the Imgur app. Once you download it, click the + button at the bottom to create a new post. Select "Files" to upload a photo. Add as many images as you want. Click Upload. Then make sure you go to the share button to grab the link for the post, and then you can post that link here.

Alternatively, you can email the pictures to yourself and then use the web based version of Imgur, which I find much easier to use and quicker. You would just click "new post" in the upper left hand corner, drag your picture onto the screen, click "Get link" in the upper right, and then you're done!

[RingsOfSaturn22]

@SteveS

This is something else I've been wondering about. You know how Gann really emphasizes watching stocks at the beginning of the year around Jan. 3rd or 4th? I've wondered if he was really tracking when perihelion occurs, because it's usually right around that date, give or take a day. And then I've seen him mention watching things at the beginning of July. Aphelion occurs around July 5, give or take a couple of days. Perhaps these points in earth's orbit are important celestial times for stocks? (Dates for perihelion and aphelion can be found here if you want to compare for various years.)

Furthermore, this ties in to what I mentioned earlier in the thread regarding the moon and Gann mentioning 28 days making an important cycle. The lunar anomalistic month is the closest to 28 days. George Bayer, who worked with Gann and revealed a lot of the astrology, said that the moon is very much related to this number 7 and thus 28, but he didn't detail more beyond that.

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

For the weeks that you mentioned, the highs that you gave are a little low. For some reason, if you set the date range to the chart to a longer period, it changes the frequency to "Weekly Nearby", which seems to give incorrect highs and lows. If you change it to just "Weekly", you will get the following highs:
Week of 8/3/2020 -- 2,150.30 made on 8/6/2020
Week of 3/7/2022 -- 2,080.10 made on 3/9/2022
Week of 5/1/2023 -- 2,116.20 made on 5/4/2023

Excellent observations Rings, much thanks. Like I said it has been years (over 25) since I have traded anything. I have one client (friend) who is a trader in the S&P 500 futures, and he knows about my past researches with Gann, so the only market I keep a close eye on is the Dow with their possible Dann Dates. Also I feel strongly we have a very accurate timed birth for the NYSE Radical, which has now become very fascinating for me looking at Solar Arcs associated with major tops and bottoms. From a Gann perspective he consider the all-time high at 2,150 made on 8/6/2020 as the key top, simply because it is the all-time high. The market must close above this high all-time high on the weekly chart before Gann would consider that prices are going much higher and probably fast, I don’t feel like this is going to happen for the rest of my life time. Here is the most important thing about the Gold Market I considered using Gann technical guidelines for the Gold Market, but I am going by a failing memory since it has been 47 years since I was involved with a serious study of his course material. Gann always talked about how important historical major top & bottoms were, saying Natural Law would calculate future major tops or bottoms from the historical ones. I think Gann said that if you ever saw a 4th test of a market top or bottom, the market had a high probability of failing---then moving into a very fast moving collapse or rise. In other words if the Gold Market to the nearest futures month with high open interest tested the Gold Price between 2,080—2.150, Gann would think there would be very high % the market would fail and it would then start collapsing in prices, but Rings, remember I am going by memory and I need my book that was never returned to me where I could write Gann’s exact words pertaining to a 4th test of a major top or bottom. But I do know this with my research: If the Gold Market happens to close over 2,150 making rapid advances in price there would be high % the market would top on a Gann Date to the exact day, the same if the Gold Market started collapsing in prices on the monthly charts making new lows on the yearly charts—there would be high% the market would bottom to the exact day on a Gann Date. I only executed trades for the Company on exact Gann Dates, few and long elapses of time between trades, but back in those days I was tracking all the markets for new all-time highs or highs made on the yearly charts.

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

I will also add in a few lows that I noticed:
Week of 9/24/2018 -- major low of 1,373.20 on 9/27/2018 (formed a double bottom of 1,373.90 five weeks prior during the week of 8/20/2018)
Week of 3/8/2021 - low of 1,718.70 on 3/8/2021 (nearly formed a double bottom 3 weeks later)
Week of 9/26/2022 - low of 1,710.00 on 9/28/2022 (nearly formed triple bottom 3 weeks later, and then 2 weeks after that)
What's interesting here is the low from the week of 9/24/2018 and the low from the week of 9/26/2022 are perfectly 4 years apart -- 4*360º. Gann says to watch for important reversals 1, 2, and 3 years after important tops and bottoms, but this one is interesting.
Also, the low made the week of 3/8/2021 and the high made the week of 3/7/2022 is just about a near perfect 360º. (If I knew the exact hour these lows and highs were made, I could confirm, but this is as close as it get. I consider this to be a dead on hit!)

Excellent observations Rings, I can see Gann’s guideline material is serving you well, and can understand if one is going to trade the markets for a living, one can’t wait around for an exact Gann Date to turn the market, one must simply follow Gann’s trading rules. Here is the last time I put out a sell recommendation for the Dow for my friend: On Jan 6 2022 I noted the Dow was making new-all-time highs and Gann had written to always look closest at the first week in Jan for major price reversals, but only if the prices were at all-time highs or lows or at extreme highs/lows on the yearly monthly charts. This is exactly what happened on Jan 6 2022 and BINGO---because of my research into the past of many years of DAILY price charts, I was able to see clearly the 24 Gann Dates were turning markets on a dime to the exact day. Now, the only thing that would definitely interest me: If the Dow were to go back-up and test the all-time high made on Jan 6 2022 (exact Gann Date). Just like you have pointed out Rings the 1, 2, 3, 4 year tests of major highs or lows are critical for either major support or resistance price levels.

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

This is why I have a love-hate relationship with Gann. You get a few things that look amazing, followed by a lot of things that don't work.

I absolutely understand Rings where you are coming from Rings!
When I first started studying Gann’s course material which the Company bought for me through my annual expense account, I thought to myself BS—this is not going to do me any good since I can’t become a full time trader---my main responsibility for the Company was booking the best of the best movies for the Company with a limited amount of screens that could not play all the movies, and then over seeing all the operations of the Theater Company. I was very disappointed in the Gann Material but came somewhat fascinated when I saw all the geometry involved with Gann’s material. I immediately knew it was way over my technical abilities. But, I lucked out in a very unique way (Sun-90 Uranus/Angular Jup-Node)! I sent all the Gann material out to my cousin in Houston who I knew had a much better technical/mathematical mind than me, just like when I got into astrology I knew I was going to need close contact with technical/matemathical experts in astrology, hence, here I am on Jim’s forum and he has taught me things that I did not understand. I can certainly see Rings you have a much better discipline mathematical mind than me. Anyway my cousin could not do any better than me with the Gann Material, but it just so happened he was dating an astrologer and very intuitive Tarot reader. It was her who looked at the Gann Material and did a tarot reading on the Gann Material and then a Tarot reading on me. She emphatically told me it was the Gann Dates I should focus on to achieve my market objectives but she told me I would first need to educate myself into some of the principles of astrology. When she told me this, a light bulb went off in my mind and I said OK---now I understand WHY Gann repeated over and over with his course material that TIME was the most important factor in his methods. So, I made-up my mind to purchase historical daily price charts only focusing on the 24 Gann Dates, and BINGO---there they were as plain as DAY starring me in the face---the 24 Gann Dates were turning the markets on the exact days in dramatic fast price reversals. Hell, my mind was blown! And I had to give the stockholder something to justify my expense accounts on the Gann Materia, so I presented my discovery to the Board and they then asked me what I was going to do with this TIME discovery to make them and their company $. And I told them what I thought the most practical thing for me to do is devise a technical system to only go into the market-places when I saw high % for a Gann Date turning a market on a time with low-risk very high rewards for fast money to be made. The Board voted and said DO IT! I did and the Gann Dates worked beautifully for my mode of operations for the Company. But no way do these Gann Dates work for other traders objectives for making $. Over my entire time of operating these Gann Dates for the Company---maybe only a half dozen times/trades---but they returned huge profits for the Company. Hell, all I wanted to do was contract movies and run a small Theater company—but I was saddled with the responsibly of taking over the Companies investments, so I put my mind to the task and here is what came out of my mind. More later Rings addressing your posts and thanks so much for your feedback.

[Jim Eshelman]

Happy Gann tipping point day, everyone. I'm watching the news... It looks like accelerated attacks on Gaza. House Speaker chaos continues after a weekend vote to revoke Jordan's nomination. A suspect shooting in Nashville.

Then again, this is all typical Mars in Libra stuff.

And the Dow opened at 32,993, essentially where I speculated last week it would get by today (33,000). This is just above its May 24 "shallow bottom."

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

I don't know if you've seen the one chart where he was tracking May soy beans, and he drew trend lines based on the tropical ecliptic longitudes of Jupiter for each day. He was using the tropical ecliptic longitude both as price and resistance/support points. He also clearly marked off Jupiter at 30º Saggitarius, which naturally would have been one of his seasonal positions. (He started Jupiter at around 263º on the chart, so 270º was coming up in a matter of a few weeks.) There are other charts where he is seen doing similar things, sometimes tracking two planets. This makes me wonder what kind of treasures were in Jones' UHaul trucks!!!

Rings, IMHO, there were indeed volumes of historical price charts, but no specific instructions how to use astrology to make very accurate price predictions. I have seen a couple charts like this with price trend lines appearing to track daily planetary movement. IMHO, it would be the only way Gann could have predicted this as reported in the followingg 1909 Investment Digest by Gilley:

One of the most astonishing calculations made by Mr. Gann was during last summer (1909) when he predicted that September wheat would sell at 120. This meant that it must touch that figure before the end of the month of September. At twelve o’clock, Chicago time, on September 30th (the last day) the option was selling below $1.08, and it looked as though his prediction would not be fulfilled. Mr. Gann said, ‘If it does not touch $1.20 by the close of the market it will prove that there is something wrong with my whole method of calculation. I do not care what the price is now, it must go there.’ It is common history that September wheat surprised the whole country by selling at $1.20 and no higher in the very last hour of the trading, closing at that figure.

Rings, if Gann indeed made this accurate prediction in the Wheat Market, his favorite market to trade, this would explain to me why he would have to have the entire daily price of Wheat in all the tradeable future options. Gann was going back into history with the entire price history of Wheat and then noticed repeatable price trend lines with certain planet(s) at the same time into the future as it was in the past. Somehow it appears Gann was able to take the same planet at the same place in the heavens from the past into the future and covert this same planet trend line into a price chart. This could certainly explain why Jones had to use 2 U-Haul trailers to move Gann’s material back to Washington, they were mostly full of historical charts. But when Jones started looking at Gann’s historical charts with all the exact trend lines flaring out everywhere, Jones or anybody else would not have a clue what they meant unless Gann had left specific astrological instructions exactly how to take the motion of the planets and converting into a price trend line into the future from an exact heavenly position of a planet from the past.
When I first read the quoted words from the above article from 1909 Investment Digest, I called BS on Gann, but then I did exactly what Gann told me I had to do---study price charts from the past and discovered the truth about his 24 Dates on his Master Charts. Now that I have seen Gann’s Natal Chart with his acute angular planetary aspects with their know/proven symbolism, I now am understanding much better how Gann indeed may have been able to make his Sept 1909 prediction for the Wheat Market---I now see and understand a much better possibility Gann had the Mind/Soul to do this kind of accurate predicted work for the markets. More later.

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

I wonder, since Gann was mostly dealing with commodities like wheat, corn, soy, etc., most of this would indeed deal with SEASONAL factors. He kept talking about seasonal factors affecting commodities all throughout his works. So using the tropical zodiac for something like this would make sense. But then, if Gann were around today and had to deal with something like Tesla, Amazon, or Apple, would he still use the tropical zodiac?

For sure he was dealing with the labeled Tropical Zodiac with the markets for the way he was measuring things for price and TIME (24 dates). I think you distinguished the key word: “SEASONAL” factors measured from the Vernal Point or Spring Equinox. For sure, I think there are natural seasonal mundane laws measuring TIME from the Vernal Point/Spring Equinox but nothing to do with the Sidereal Zodiac which in my book is the only Zodiac. Does this make sense to you Rings?
Rings wrote:

That's interesting. I wonder why there is a discrepancy between the data?

I don’t know, but I do know I was closely following the Gold Market in 1980 because the Company had all their investment $ parked in the Gold Stocks from 1976. I was receiving weekly Commodity Price Charts in booklet form with the daily price, which by now I had researched and confirmed the 24 Gann Dates were turning markets on a time for large price swings. I still have one page copies of the daily gold prices with these daily sheets, which will confirm to our eyes the gold market turned on a dime with 3 of Gann’s Dates, one of em 1 day off. The all-time high which held the top for over 25 years was app 850$ an ounce, but the Gold Stocks Index topped at 720$ an ounce on the Sept 23 Gann Date in 1980. I still have copies of these daily gold price charts in 1980, but can’t figure out how to link em for the forum. It really takes the EYE to see how 3 exact Gann Dates turned the gold market with wild price swings in 1980. Just think of 850, 500, 720 for these turns in the gold price on Jan 20, May 21, and Sept 23 1980. It truly takes the eye to the mind with these daily price charts to see/understand that there is definitely a natural timing law actually calculating these exact price top/bottoms on these Gann Dates in the market place.
Rings wrote:

I don't know if you saw this post earlier, as there have been a lot of replies in this thread, but this explains how to get the image on here without eating up Jim's resources.

No Rings, I missed this, I will get on this link and get the price charts link posted showing our minds these prices with the Gann Dates turning markets on a dime, in the gold market & soybean market. Thanks , later.

[SteveS]

OK Rings, here is my first attempt for posting a link of a pic from my I-Phone. Its Gann's Master Square of 4 Chart showing the 24 Dates. Before I start posting links to some of my old daily price charts, look at this link here and tell me if you know what I may be doing wrong in order to show larger/clearer images. I have got to practice this new procedure for me in order where we can see the dates and prices much better. Thanks.

https://ibb.co/jV6pSkP

[SteveS]

Rings, here is a link to the Comex April 1981 futures Contract, but make sure you understand this a daily price chart covering an actual time period from Dec 3 1979 to Jan 23 1981. In order for your eyes to see this actual time period go to the bottom of the chart and note each calendar month from Dec 1979 to the month of Mar 1981, but note the daily price bar ends on JAN 23 1981. Now let your eyes look at how prices went vertical from Dec 3 1979 (left side of chart), opening limit-up for many days, but then the price topped exactly on a limit-up day Monday Jan 21 1980, the actual Gann Date was on Sunday Jan 20 so we see a slippage of one day to Monday Jan 21 1980 because markets were closed on Sunday’s. Now let your eyes move over to the right at the bottom of the chart till see May and look-up at the bar price and you will note this contract made its exact low on May 22, the actual Gann Date on his Master Chart is May 21, I don’t know when the exact hour for the Gann Dates in the calendar year of 1980 happened—when the market had closed or was open. Now go back down to the bottom of the chart and let your eyes focus on the months again scanning to the right until you get to the month of Sept. You will note if you could see the bar dates the market topped exactly on Sept 23 1980 a Gann Date. You will note on this cut-out daily chart I have these 3 Gann Dates of exact swing tops & bottoms labeled Sun Date, the reason being that is exactly what they are—15 degree intervals of the Sun moving from Spring Equinox to Spring Equinox. Back in the old Company files I had 20 years of daily price charts for Gold & Soybeans and this is how I discovered and proved to myself dozens of very fast swing prices exactly topping or bottoming on these Gann Dates, it blew my mind, then I made a presentation to the Board and it blew their minds how these Gann Dates were stopping prices on a dime with significant tops/bottoms. This is why Gann briefly wrote in his course material to watch closely for the 24 Gann dates on his Gann’s Master 4 Chart, because he had already proven to himself by looking at many historical daily price charts that all kinds of different markets were making swing tops & bottoms with significant price moves to these exact 24 dates in very fast moving markets. Can you see where I am coming from with this Gold Daily Price Chart, even though you may not be able to see the actual dates of these swing tops and bottoms? I will later try to make a close-up of these 3 Gann Dates in 1980 where you can actually see-em. Let me know what you need me to try and do with this procedure for posting I-Phone Pics through a link to allow you to see clearer the chart image with these 24 Gann Dates stopping significant price swings dead in their tracks many times on these 24 Gann Dates.
https://ibb.co/DYfr4JK

[RingsOfSaturn22]

Hi Steve,

I just wanted to let you know that I tried both links you posted. The page loads up, but for some reason, the image itself won't load. As I've never used that site before, I can't comment more. Perhaps there is an issue with their server at the moment? I will try again later.

I will respond to the rest of your posts later this evening.

[Jim Eshelman]

I click the link and get the image. What platform are you using? It works fine for me on a Windows computer or launched from Edge browser in an Android phone.

[SteveS]

No problems Rings on my end for the link loading showing daily gold prices for the year 1980 looking at the April 1981 futures contract. Obviously a problem on your end, maybe your server. Keep me informed and when you are able to view my cut-out daily price charts, you may be able to zero in on a better online site where it will save me time explaning what you can't see with my links. We will figure it out.

[SteveS]

Rings, I found a link (below) with the daily closing Gold Prices (cash) for each trading day for the entire year of 1980. Since it is impossible for you to see on the pic of my old daily cut-out price charts the DATES for the major tops and bottoms in 1980 for the Gann Dates, the link below will allow you to clearly see the major tops & bottoms for 1980 Gold Prices were made on the Gann Dates allowing for one day slippage with one of the Gann Dates falling on a Sunday (Jan 20) with price top Monday Jan 21 and the other Gann Date on May 21 but with exact price top on May 22.
https://www.usagold.com/daily-gold-pric ... Years=1980

[SteveS]

On August 7, 2020, gold futures hit their highest-ever price of $2,089.20….

https://www.americanbullion.com/what-is ... n-history/

Aug 7, 2020 was an exact Gann Date on his Master Square of 4 Chart--measurred from the Spring Equinox Mar 19, 2020 10:50 PM Central Time. I suspect this all-time high will hold this high for many more years, but with the gold chart patterns from Aug 7 2020---ONLY IF the price of gold on its nearest gold futures contact closes above this all-time high on the weekly charts---gold price will go much higher.

[SteveS]

In most cases when I have isolated a Gann Date top or bottom in the market places, they are associated with major tops & bottoms with long periods (years) of elapsing time before these major Gann Date tops or bottoms are exceeded in price. For sure, I have isolated a Gann Date Top in the Gold & DOW, for Gold Aug 7 2020, and for the DOW Jan 6 2022. If many more years are going to elapse before these two important tops will be exceeded in price, this tells me there is high % interests rates will continue to rise and stay high for years to come. About the only way I see the Fed significantly reducing interest rates-- if another great type recession was to hit the country. Time will tell.

[SteveS]

The NYSE is getting somewhat oversold, lowest readings I have seen in a while. Last Friday after the market closed this “outstanding incident” Mars-Jup Oct 27 SLR appeared:

https://ibb.co/qsYzfmj

Mars-Jup Paran backed with a Mercury Mix. Market was up last night and holding firm so far today. Let’s see what happens on balance for the rest of this SLR period?

[RingsOfSaturn22]

Apologies it has taken me so long to get back. I have some interesting info to share with you, Steve! I will be starting 2 new threads in the experimental section.

I click the link and get the image. What platform are you using? It works fine for me on a Windows computer or launched from Edge browser in an Android phone.

I'm on OSX using both Firefox and Brave web browsers. It works for me now. So they must have had a server problem at the time I tried to access the site before.

And the Dow opened at 32,993, essentially where I speculated last week it would get by today (33,000). This is just above its May 24 "shallow bottom."

Great call! I will be following your earlier prediction in the thread through 2024.

Anyway my cousin could not do any better than me with the Gann Material, but it just so happened he was dating an astrologer and very intuitive Tarot reader. It was her who looked at the Gann Material and did a tarot reading on the Gann Material and then a Tarot reading on me. She emphatically told me it was the Gann Dates I should focus on to achieve my market objectives but she told me I would first need to educate myself into some of the principles of astrology. When she told me this, a light bulb went off in my mind and I said OK---now I understand WHY Gann repeated over and over with his course material that TIME was the most important factor in his methods.

Talk about a great plot twist! I love your stories.

Rings, here is a link to the Comex April 1981 futures Contract, but make sure you understand this a daily price chart covering an actual time period from Dec 3 1979 to Jan 23 1981. In order for your eyes to see this actual time period go to the bottom of the chart and note each calendar month from Dec 1979 to the month of Mar 1981, but note the daily price bar ends on JAN 23 1981. Now let your eyes look at how prices went vertical from Dec 3 1979 (left side of chart), opening limit-up for many days, but then the price topped exactly on a limit-up day Monday Jan 21 1980, the actual Gann Date was on Sunday Jan 20 so we see a slippage of one day to Monday Jan 21 1980 because markets were closed on Sunday’s. Now let your eyes move over to the right at the bottom of the chart till see May and look-up at the bar price and you will note this contract made its exact low on May 22, the actual Gann Date on his Master Chart is May 21, I don’t know when the exact hour for the Gann Dates in the calendar year of 1980 happened—when the market had closed or was open. Now go back down to the bottom of the chart and let your eyes focus on the months again scanning to the right until you get to the month of Sept. You will note if you could see the bar dates the market topped exactly on Sept 23 1980 a Gann Date. You will note on this cut-out daily chart I have these 3 Gann Dates of exact swing tops & bottoms labeled Sun Date, the reason being that is exactly what they are—15 degree intervals of the Sun moving from Spring Equinox to Spring Equinox. Back in the old Company files I had 20 years of daily price charts for Gold & Soybeans and this is how I discovered and proved to myself dozens of very fast swing prices exactly topping or bottoming on these Gann Dates, it blew my mind, then I made a presentation to the Board and it blew their minds how these Gann Dates were stopping prices on a dime with significant tops/bottoms. This is why Gann briefly wrote in his course material to watch closely for the 24 Gann dates on his Gann’s Master 4 Chart, because he had already proven to himself by looking at many historical daily price charts that all kinds of different markets were making swing tops & bottoms with significant price moves to these exact 24 dates in very fast moving markets. Can you see where I am coming from with this Gold Daily Price Chart, even though you may not be able to see the actual dates of these swing tops and bottoms? I will later try to make a close-up of these 3 Gann Dates in 1980 where you can actually see-em. Let me know what you need me to try and do with this procedure for posting I-Phone Pics through a link to allow you to see clearer the chart image with these 24 Gann Dates stopping significant price swings dead in their tracks many times on these 24 Gann Dates.
https://ibb.co/DYfr4JK

Now that I can see the image, this clears up a lot. Most of the sites that have historical financial data have different numbers than the records you have. But I DID come across one that had the same data as you! https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/histor ... year-chart If you turn off "inflation adjusted data", it shows the low occurring in May 1980 just like your records show, not March 1980. If I had seen the records that you had access to, I too would have been convinced without a doubt that there was something to the Gann seasonal dates!

I'm still curious, though, where all of these web sites are pulling their info from that has different info than you. This is one of the tricky things about going back and testing Gann's data -- making sure you have access to the SAME data that he was using, and not changes that people made to the data after the fact. 45 Years in Wall Street was helpful because at least he gave specific dates and prices on specific dates (even though some of his own internal info contradicted itself).

[SteveS]

Rings wrote:

Most of the sites that have historical financial data have different numbers than the records you have.

Yes, and this makes it terribly difficult for me to get any interested people in Gann the Legend to be able to see the vast importance of Gann’s 24 Dates in the markets, virtually impossible. The only sure way for the mind to see/understand how important these 24 dates are is to be able for the eyes to look at many years of daily price history, and then when you isolate an important extreme top or bottom made during a given year, or at the very least the monthly charts if it is a fast market (like my 1980 daily gold prices), these dates are turning the markets on a dime in most cases to the exact Gann Date. You must allow slippage of a day during the week of trading because you never know if the exact hour marking an exact Gann Date occurred during trading hours or after the market closed for the day of trading. Also, when a Gann Date occurrs on the weekend (Sat/Sun) you must watch closely Monday's price action. It’s a tedious mental process when you are looking at 20 + years of daily price charts, but this is exactly what I did, and I never would have thought of doing this tedious procedure if it had not been for my cousin’s girlfriend who clued- me- in on the vast importance of Gann’s 24 Dates. In a sense, I had the help of a 6th Sense presence with her astrological & tarot sense telling me the vast importance of Gann’s 24 dates, and that I would be able to see/understand the importance of these dates. But even then, if I did not have the confidence of the Board of Directors approving me an annual expense account to investigate this matter of the Gann Dates, I would have never seen the importance of theses dates reveled to my mind by pouring over 20 years of daily price history. And then later when Jones told me most of Gann’s material he purchased from Gann-Lambert publishing company were price charts for dozens of stocks/commodities, worthless to Jones. Gann discovered the importance of these 24 dates no different than me—he proved to his mind the markets were turning on a dime with these dates when they were making extreme highs or lows on the yearly charts.

I know this for sure: Knowing what I know today and if I could start my life over with AI, I would know exactly how to plug the data into AI for ALL STOCKS/COMMODITIES to track nothing but the daily price movements and to ring a bell when market prices were making new highs or lows only on the yearly charts on these Gann Dates. Then it would be a simple matter to run certain technicals and to closely follow these markets on the Gann Date for certain technical reversals, mainly a weekly reversal to see if the Gann Date would turn the market on a dime. That’s all I know to do---Gann for sure knew much more with his geometrical angles converging on a particular Gann Date with all the charts he kept. Jones told me there were hundreds of different time charts of different markets with geometric angles flaring everywhere from old important tops and bottoms. Somehow Gann was squaring Price & Time, and when he saw this squaring-out of Price & Time on one of the 24 Dates he knew with a high degree of certainly the market was going to turn on a dime. He knew there was a natural law (God) working in the marketplaces, and this is how he made millions in these marketplaces. This is why Gann made the statement he spent years of researching markets with their price history in the Astor Library in NY. Gann had a brilliant technical mind (Mercury-Pluto) for hard nose focused research and he was a natural Genius/Inventor (Moon-Uranus), and IMHO his Natal Chart proves this with the solid principles for Western Sidereal Astrology. His Natal Chart I saw with my mind for the first time when Jim provided the data last week, and other very important Sidereal Astrology Principles was a sheer wonder for me to behold, but only means something to the serious Sidereal Astrologer. Looking forward to your new experiments, we learn nothing new without experiments.

[RingsOfSaturn22]

In a sense, I had the help of a 6th Sense presence with her astrological & tarot sense telling me the vast importance of Gann’s 24 dates, and that I would be able to see/understand the importance of these dates. But even then, if I did not have the confidence of the Board of Directors approving me an annual expense account to investigate this matter of the Gann Dates, I would have never seen the importance of theses dates reveled to my mind by pouring over 20 years of daily price history.

It does indeed seem like you have a 6th sense or some type of divine guidance for this. Is there anything in your chart currently reactivating an interest in Gann?

I know this for sure: Knowing what I know today and if I could start my life over with AI, I would know exactly how to plug the data into AI for ALL STOCKS/COMMODITIES to track nothing but the daily price movements and to ring a bell when market prices were making new highs or lows only on the yearly charts on these Gann Dates. Then it would be a simple matter to run certain technicals and to closely follow these markets on the Gann Date for certain technical reversals, mainly a weekly reversal to see if the Gann Date would turn the market on a dime.

AI gives SUCH an edge right now for anyone who has to do research through a ton of data. If I knew how to program it, I would surely be using it more for this type of research.

I have put up the first post in the experimental section. There will be a second one later in the week once I get time to write it. I really do have to thank you for all of this, because you have served as a trigger and a catalyst for me digging deeper. It has caused me to synthesize previously known info in a different way, as well as to find new info.

And on an unrelated side note, THANK YOU for having legible handwriting on your chart!!!! Is that a Virgo thing?