October 2023 Lunar

[Lyse]

Jim, would you mind taking a look at my October LR? It seems quite harsh and I’m a bit concerned. Thanks.

Code: Select all

         October 10, 2023 8:12:16 AM, Pointe-Claire, QC
MC 10°41’ Ca
Asc 3°40’ Li

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           

Ma  3Li48'31"  0N16 +40'27" 206°56' 10S50 105°31' - 0° 1'   0° 1' 100% A 
Pl  2Cp49'18"  2S44 - 0' 1" 300°34' 23S16  17°58' -66°59'  82°32' 100% N
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             

Su  4Cn 5'37"  0S 0 +57'18" 121°19' 20N19 194°50' +64°15' 262°58' 100% Z 
Ma 12Cn31'20"  1N 9 +38'21" 130°19' 19N29 175°17' +63°57' 272°18'  99% M 
Ju 13Cn59'33"  0N33 +13' 8" 131°39' 18N31 172°38' +62°54' 273°45'  96% M 
Ur  3Cn52' 5"  0N31 + 3'40" 121°11' 20N52 195°20' +64°46' 262°54' 100% Z 
Ne  1Li23'33"  1N43 + 0'27" 205°11'  8S36 105°15' + 2°47' 357° 6'  98% A
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tMa sq tPl  0°59' 98%   tMo op tSa  0°56' 98%                           
tVe op tSa  0°14'100%                           
----------------------   ----------------------                         
tMa sq rSu  0°17'100%   tSu sq rVe  0°52' 99%                           
tMe sq rVe  0°40' 99% M                      
tMa sq rUr  0° 4'100%                    
			tSa op rMo  0°57' 98%                           
tPl op rSu  0°26'100% M                                                 
tPl op rUr  0°22'100% M                                                 
tPl sq rNe  1°26' 96%                                                   
                                        
----------------------                                                  
rSu co rUr  0° 4'100% M                                                 
rMa co rJu  1°27' 96% M                                                 
                             

[Jim Eshelman]

I agree, it looks rough. To get a little perspective, here is my experimental way of summarizing SLR themes.

MARS = 12
Malefic = 14, Benefic = 6
Change = 11
Dignity = 9, Indignity = 4
Spotlight = 6
Natal = 24, Transit = 12

This summary softens the first impression a bit. Malefic planets foreground definitely top benefic (with the doubled-up close Mars leading), but the chart is not without benefic quality (natal Jupiter and Uranus). It's malefic-leaning mixed. Also, most of the foreground planets are natal planets: Though it's still too soon for me to be sure about this, I'm working on the premise that this means most of the circumstances come from you, not the environment.

Still... not only is it double-Mars, it's with transiting Mars 0°01' from an angle, intensified by partile Pluto. I think you need to be very careful concerning Mars matters, whether conflict with others (common with double-Mars: both sides want to fight) or accidents (don't get hurt). Of course, it's not necessarily bad: It could be running an over-the-top marathon (but I think you'd have mentioned that under the circumstances). It could be abundant, mutually aggressive, rough-housing sex (considering the aspects, things that overwhelm your senses, take your breath away are hardly out of the question.

Still, most people most of the time with a chart like this would come away with physical, emotional, or financial scars. - And it doesn't help that this occurs (SLR aside) with transiting Saturn partile opposite natal Moon - that transit will be felt regardless.

If we look at the Saturn-Moon transit, the most common matters are probably health concerns or emotional loss (the latter especially with it being Moon-Venus opposite Saturn), but it could be wider than that. A hurtful argument with a friend?

I don't suppose you've been feeling an overwhelming desire to visit Chipman, NB?

[Jim Eshelman]

Breaking out the SLR (at home) my favorite way:

r Jupiter on MC -3°45'
r Mars on MC -2°18'
r Sun on Z -0°16'
r Uranus on Z -0°12'
t Mars on Asc -0°01'
------------------------
t Pluto on N +0°51'
r Neptune on Asc +2°54'

t Mars sq r Uranus 0°04'
r Sun-Uranus co 0°04' M
t Mars sq r Sun 0°17'
t Pluto op r Uranus 0°22' M
t Pluto co r Sun 0°26' M
t Mars-Pluto sq 0°59'
t Pluto sq r Neptune 1°26'
r Mars-Jupiter co 1°27' M
t Mars sq r Mars 2°17' M
t Mars co r Neptune 2°25'
r Uranus-Neptune sq 2°29'
r Sun-Neptune sq 2°42'

The aspects boil down to a partile, closely angular Mars-Pluto square with Mars square your Mars and both Mars-Pluto aspecting your Sun, Uranus, and Neptune. That's tough to get altogether in a single idea, but the main parts seems to be that the universe is confronting you aggressively - either bringing a fight to your doorstep or giving every opportunity to fulfill your desire for a fight. There is something that resembles combat. And otherwise, your reactions (or what you initially bring) can be summarized by Sun, Uranus, and Neptune - which, actually, is pretty ingenious, in command, and resourceful. I'd read this as "you want to get away" except natal Pluto isn't involved, so I actually thing things are a little surrealistic in how all this happens and you step up into it.

I don't like the non-foreground partile aspects. That's where the sense of loss emotional comes in. I read these as "filling in the gaps" when you already know the essential nature of the period (from the foreground stuff), though Steve thinks these fast transits to natal planets are more primary. In any case, here is the list:

Other Partile Aspects
t Venus-Saturn op 0°14'
-- t Saturn op r Moon 0°57'
t Mercury sq r Venus 0°40'
-- t Sun sq r Venus 0°52'

[Lyse]

Still... not only is it double-Mars, it's with transiting Mars 0°01' from an angle, intensified by partile Pluto. I think you need to be very careful concerning Mars matters, whether conflict with others (common with double-Mars: both sides want to fight) or accidents (don't get hurt).

It’s no surprise as I’ve been having a bad feeling about the upcoming month for a few weeks and have slowed down excessively exercising. However, it’s quite likely a conflict with a former family member who, at the moment, I’m trying my best to avoid. If it’s a conflict with them, it will be a one-way event.

I don't suppose you've been feeling an overwhelming desire to visit Chipman, NB?

That’s quite far, a nine hour drive but if that is the only location I might very well do it.

Thanks, Jim

[Jim Eshelman]

The only benefic line in North America is this Jupiter line. - And remember that SLRs work in both locations: When you come home, you still get the SLR for home, but you bring the one where it set up along with you. (That's why for SLRs it's not good enough to just get out from under the line you don't like - you have to acquire the line you DO like to add to the mix.)

For Chipman: Not perfect, but with some great advantages.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
MC: 18Cn31    Asc: 9Li20
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ju 18Ar26'32"  1S25 - 6'31"  41°30' 14N33 283°22' + 7°21' 187°33' 100% W 
Ma  3Li48'31"  0N16 +40'27" 206°56' 10S50 111°19' + 5° 0' 354°38'  92% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ju 13Cn59'33"  0N33 +13' 8" 131°39' 18N31 188°57' +62° 6' 265°18'  94% M 
Sa 20Li22'52"  2N18 + 0'14" 223°41' 14S16 101°39' - 8°38'   8°49'  xx% E 
Ma 12Cn31'20"  1N 9 +38'21" 130°19' 19N29 191°56' +62°53' 263°57'  90% M 
Ne  1Li23'33"  1N43 + 0'27" 205°11'  8S36 111°10' + 7°49' 351°38'  82% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects    
tMa sq rMa  0°41' 99% M
tMa sq rJu  0°40' 99% M
tMa co rNe  2°25' 92%  
tJu op rSa  1°15' 98% M
---------------------- 
rMa co rJu  1°20' 97% M
rMa sq rNe  2°20' 85% M

JUPITER = 10
Dignity = 10, Indignity = 3
Benefic = 10, Malefic = 8
Change = 0, Spotlight = 0

[Lyse]

When you come home, you still get the SLR for home, but you bring the one where it set up along with you.

Thanks, would being in Saint John, NB be much different?

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks, would being in Saint John, NB be much different?

Slightly better! I don't think squares to MC work past 2° (unlike the other minor angles) and natal Saturn is 2°03' - if it counts as all, it's at its weakest.

Ironically, this removes the one GOOD aspect I saw for the other location: transiting Jupiter opposite natal Saturn, which is a prudence and recovery aspect. Nonetheless, the angularities are in your favor and essentially the same otherwise:

Code: Select all

MC: 18Cn20    Asc: 9Li32
Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G

                           Transiting Planets                           
Ju 18Ar26'32"  1S25 - 6'31"  41°30' 14N33 283°21' + 7°16' 187°28' 100% W 
Ma  3Li48'31"  0N16 +40'27" 206°56' 10S50 111° 6' + 5°12' 354°25'  92% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ju 13Cn59'33"  0N33 +13' 8" 131°39' 18N31 188°50' +63° 1' 265°31'  95% M 
Ma 12Cn31'20"  1N 9 +38'21" 130°19' 19N29 191°56' +63°47' 264°11'  91% M 
Ne  1Li23'33"  1N43 + 0'27" 205°11'  8S36 110°55' + 8° 1' 351°25'  81% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects     
tMa sq rMa  0°14'100% M 
tMa sq rJu  1° 6' 97% M 
tMa co rNe  2°25' 92%   
tJu op rSa  1°17' 98% M 
----------------------  
rMa co rJu  1°20' 97% M
rMa sq rNe  2°46' 79% M

[Lyse]

Thank you, it’s hard to see the subtleties at times. Though, I do like the t. Jupiter opposite n. Saturn.

[Jim Eshelman]

JUPITER = 10
Dignity = 10, Indignity = 3
Benefic = 10, Malefic = 8
Change = 0, Spotlight = 0

Redoing this for St. John:

JUPITER = 10
Dignity = 10, Indignity = 1
Benefic = 10, Malefic = 7
Change = 0, Spotlight = 0

As you can see, on the basic dynamics, not much difference but minutely better. The rest is in the aspects.

[Lyse]

In the past two days, we’ve had two near misses while driving with the other cars losing control of their vehicles. However, what shook me up was a third close call yesterday, a random driver pulled along the passenger side making faces and aggressive hand signals for no particular reason. The first time I ignored it, we passed him but he sped up and continued his attack. So, I lost my cool and a mini road rage ensued. We dodged it by quickly taking a side road.

Jim, in hindsight, have you ever found that upcoming lunar returns were foreshadowed by similar incidents, even days out?

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, in hindsight, have you ever found that upcoming lunar returns were foreshadowed by similar incidents, even days out?

Roy Firebrace once wrote that he thought lunars had leading events so often that he wondered if maybe they marked the center of a period instead of a beginning. However, he never repeated that speculation. I respected and appreciated Roy immediately, but the fact that he calculated lunar returns for birthplace reduces my confidence in his observations about the returns.

For myself... not very many days. There are times in the far past that I'd have given them two or three days, but since I've been watching them minutely (and with good calculation tools) the 24-hour mark seems about right. I can conceive it could be earlier (any such "boundary" we create is on a rising curve that occasionally could find expression a little early) but that's only theory - making allowances. I think 24 hours is about right and would be skeptical of anything over 48 hours.

What I've seen OFTEN happen is that transits coming to a head that are active in a lunar return at simply transits, and they come in orb or peak ahead of time. We see the same symbolism but from a distant cause. Was there anything already operating October 3 that peaked on October 5 for you? The first thing I see - highly accurate symbolism! - is that transiting Mars was already within 1° of conjunct your natal Neptune.

Transits usually manifest either when they are exact or when (a little bit wider) they come to an important angle (such as an SLR). It's not common (nor is it rare) to subliminally feel them coming on from, say, 3° out, but they don't usually break into immediate awareness until they are exact. Three days ago, Mars was about 2° from your Neptune. Yesterday it was within a degree. I'd have expected the effect more today, but it was in the zone yesterday. (This is my least favorite transit. Your Neptune is 4' from mine, and I had what should have been a minor event punch an emotional hole in my last night - not to worry, I'll get better - so I have fresh reminders of how that transit can feel. BTW mine was emphasized by being either that transit or my natal Mars-Neptune being simultaneously on all three quotidians' angles.)

You're also well into transiting Saturn's transit opposite your Moon. It was 9' wide yesterday afternoon and getting closer. You even have ongoing "surprise!" events with transiting Uranus partile square your MC.

As we get excited about Sidereal lunar returns that are SO vivid and genuinely exciting, it's easy to forget that we could do a really good job in astrological prediction with using ONLY transits. Probably 70% or more of everything would pop out that way, so it's always the first thing I check. You're in a rough transit zone with Saturn opposite your Moon, and the Mars transit to Neptune had a harder impact than is perhaps usual for you.

[Lyse]

I've been watching them minutely (and with good calculation tools) the 24-hour mark seems about right.

As we get excited about Sidereal lunar returns that are SO vivid and genuinely exciting, it's easy to forget that we could do a really good job in astrological prediction with using ONLY transits. Probably 70% or more of everything would pop out that way, so it's always the first thing I check.

Thank you, Jim, you’ve made an excellent point. In trying to learn lunar and solar returns, I sometimes forget the basics in predictive work, transits first! Looking back at a painful experience, the lunar was unclear but transiting Pluto-Saturn was partile square Sun/Uranus.

At the moment, I have a high degree of anxiety as I’m waiting on news, this month, that’s vital to the direction my life takes. Therefore, I’m not surprised that I stupidly engaged with someone more than likely on illegal medication.

[Jim Eshelman]

Since the mid-1970s, my version of "your daily horoscope" for myself has been some variation of day-to-day transits. Always transits to natal and SSR, sometimes with other things added that I'm exploring (including most of a decade of pre-calculating quotidian crossings - I have an easier 60-second way to do that now each morning when I wake up).

So, for today, my list shows that transiting Mars conjoins natal Neptune and opposes natal Sedna (they are in precise opposition), squaring solar Pluto. Primarily, it is transiting Mars triggering the exact SSR aspect of s Pluto = r Neptune. I suppose we could say that outside assertion popped my reality and security balloon.

Additionally, my SSR has an exact Saturn-Uranus square and today transiting Mercury octiles solar Saturn-Uranus. - Altogether, it probably will be a tense day, preferring to pour myself into the difficult phase of writing I'm doing (I'm now off work for most of a week building to my birthday). (I'm currently trying to articulate the fine points of differences in the various angles of a natal horoscope without being either escapist or naysaying.)

So the expectation of the day is: Mars to "Pluto on Neptune," and Mercury to solar Saturn-Uranus. Much of this was already felt yesterday. But that's how I do my dailies for myself.

Tomorrow will be kinder and perhaps more fun: Transiting Sun to SSR Venus-Asc, perhaps a "last hoorah" on the lovely Venus on Zenith of the outgoing solar.

[Lyse]

Update:

Yesterday, we were told in confidence that an extremely expensive item belonging to building management had been stolen from the underground garage. The janitor saw them driving the vehicle out but he was too late to stop them.

The management believes it knows who is responsible and that they were operating as a two person team with one of them living in this building. As there are cameras in the building lobby and garage facing towards the doors, they were trying to figure out how the person gained entry.

Last week, I saw the person they think is responsible, btw, who lives a few doors down with his mother, coming through the emergency exit into the garage; there are two doors which can only be opened from the inside. He doesn’t have a car and, when he saw me, he was upset and started to walk quickly. Every other time we’ve met, he always says “Hello”. I didn’t think too much of it at the time but did mention to my husband that he was acting strange. Some time ago, we were that he had been suspected of multiple thefts with a car and money stolen from the garage.

Last night, I remembered the encounter and realized that he wasn’t coming in but had probably gone down to ‘leave the outside door ajar’ for his buddy.

So, what do I do now? Normally, I’d do the right thing and inform the staff but with the current lunar return, I’m second guessing this course of action. Could the Mars-Pluto symbolism refer to encounters with police and potential fallout and/or does he find out it was me who turned him in, walks over and beats me up? He’s as tall as I am but 75 pounds heavier and 25 years younger, so I’m not likely to emerge as a winner.

Am I overthinking this?

[SteveS]

even if you told the staff, could they know for sure he opened the door from the inside? I agree with you Lyse, he most likely opened the door to let his buddy in, but...this is a tough one to know what is best to do.

[Lyse]

even if you told the staff, could they know for sure he opened the door from the inside?

It’s a fire exit, nobody can enter the building through it and I’d bet fingerprints are on the outside handle.

We’re due to buy a car and don’t want to see it shipped overseas and there are other residents to think about. What a dilemma! If I wait until the lunar is finished they might ask why it took me so long to report it. Not an easy explanation.

[SteveS]

Lyse wrote:

What a dilemma! If I wait until the lunar is finished they might ask why it took me so long to report it. Not an easy explanation.

Indeed Lyse, a dilemma!

[Lyse]

Indeed Lyse, a dilemma!

Steve, After thinking on this, I’ve decided to write an anonymous letter to management informing them a resident, without naming them, is entering the building through the emergency exit. Maybe they’ll place a camera at that end of the garage. The stolen vehicle is long gone but I may be able to prevent the next theft. That’s about as far as I’ve decided to pursue this matter.

[SteveS]

Lyse, this is exactly what I was thinking of suggesting you do, but I decided to keep my thoughts out of it--- not realizing the situation as well as you. The management defintely needs to install a camera to record the activity for this exit.

[Jim Eshelman]

Remember that the SLR is likely causing the anxiety (which stirs the uncertainty). It need not show an event to get your adrenaline pumping and create a body based sense of threat.

I lost track: Did you stay home for this or travel to NB?

Also, I haven't had time to check thr Demi. (I'm in commute right now.) How does the Demi look? That seems about the timing that stirred this up.

[Jim Eshelman]

(I'm at work now.) The Demi came in late Monday night and was probably felt as early as late Sunday night. It's pretty simple (quite the opposite of the SLR): Transiting Neptune is 4° from Descendant.

Given the broader effect of Saturn's transit to your Moon and the broad, complex sent of threat and mobilizing the fight-or-flight animal instincts in your body from the SLR, I think this simply means anxiety. It's not a strong chart by itself. It just draws attention to things not seen and a tone of worry and uncertainty.

[SteveS]

Lyse, FWIW, here are words by Donald Bradley for Return Charts which have angular Mars-Pluto symbolism (tones):

Mars-Pluto: Swift meting out of justice is the surest token of strong aspects between Mars and Pluto. Suspense, as tense as a fictional serial chapter-ending, clutches the native’s senses sometime during the period covered by the chart. A crisis which calls for the native’s taking the initiative and responsibility is in the offing, for a keyword of Mars-Pluto is “the blame.” The combination is essentially criminogenic in nature.

I find Bradley’s words most interesting with what manifested under your “outstanding incident” Mars-Pluto SLR, if I am remembering correctly with your SLR. So, we see these Bradley's Mars-Pluto tones manifest within your immediate environment.

[Jim Eshelman]

FWIW, here is what I've evolved that to over the years. (Obviously support and dependent on Bradley's original idea.)

One is forced to stand accountable for one's actions (with swift, unapologetic consequences); otherwise, to take unusual initiative amidst urgent events (air of crisis or emergency). Suspenseful, tense. Unprecedented force (possible aggression, belligerence, or attack). Consequences of cumulative stresses.

[Lyse]

I lost track: Did you stay home for this or travel to NB?

Travelled to Saint John, NB. Maybe a good thing as this seems to be an organized operation and I have been anxious after hearing that and other matters.

[Lyse]

Steve wrote

The management defintely needs to install a camera to record the activity for this exit.

Agreed, the cost of a car today is more expensive than my first house!

[Jim Eshelman]

Travelled to Saint John, NB. Maybe a good thing as this seems to be an organized operation and I have been anxious after hearing that and other matters.

So, while you do get your residence SLR once you get back home, you also bring with you this original location SLR in St. John:

r Saturn on Asc -8°45'
t Jupiter on WP -0°07'
----------------------------
r Jupiter on MC +4°29'
t Mars on Asc +5°35'
r Mars on MC +5°49'
r Neptune on Asc +8°35'

t Mars sq r Mars 0°14' M
t Mars sq r Jupiter 1°06' M
t Jupiter op r Saturn 1°17' M
r Mars-Jupiter co 1°20' M
t Mars co r Neptune 2°25'
r Mars-Neptune sq 2°46' M

[Lyse]

That’s a lot of Mars energy.

Thanks, Jim.

[Jim Eshelman]

I'm experimenting this year (beginning this month with my birthday) with using my angular planet ranking system to COMPOSITE multiple returns. I'm using it primarily to blend a Demi with it's full SLR to see whether the period is better described by treating the SLR and Demi as distinct or by expecting both effects during the last half of the month.

The same technique (slightly modified) also (theoretically) could model the way in which a return expresses itself BOTH for where it occurs and where you go later in the month (as with your current SLR). - Remember, I don't know yet if there is something here we can rely on, I'm just starting to look. For a comparison, the first set of rankings is your SLR set up only for current residence (as if you did not travel). The second set is a blending of the two versions of the two SLRs (for the two locations).

MARS = 12
Malefic = 14, Benefic = 6
Change = 11
Dignity = 9, Indignity = 4
Spotlight = 6
Natal = 24, Transit = 12

MARS = 12 (Jupiter = 9)
Dignity = 15, Indignity = 5
Change = 11
Malefic = 15, Benefic = 12
Spotlight = 6

These lists aren't the whole story, but so far they have been really useful to me in getting a balanced perspective in the whole of the return. Between these two versions (if taken seriously), the gain from the almost perfectly angular Jupiter is significant. It doesn't tip the whole picture benefic, but it narrows the gap, making it much more "mixed quality, slightly more malefic." Instead of the malefic score being more than double the benefic score (14 to 6) it is barely higher (15 to 12). Even with the heavy malefic indicators at home, you were already on track to have more dignity than indignity (9 to 4), but that dignity gap has increased from double to triple (15 to 5). - You were always going to end up "looking good," or drawing respect, from the month even if things were otherwise bad; now, that likelihood of heightened dignity is much increased.

Change and Spotlight don't move. The Change score is moderately high: Things are in motion. However, the Spotlight score is low compared to everything else. It was never likely you were going to end up in the spotlight for the events of this month.

Also, the number of transiting and natal planets have levelled out. That's one of the interesting differences (still sorting out whether this means what I think it means). If you hadn't travelled, the activity of natal planets would have been double that of transiting planets. Adding the other location, they are closer to even (T = 18, N = 25). I've been drawing the line at double at least.

[SteveS]

Thanks Lyse for keeping us informed with the details for the main manifestation for your “outstanding incident” Mars-Pluto SLR-- a crime of thief with you knowing (witnessing) most likely who was involved. Indeed, an out of the ordinary Mars-Pluto incident. IMHO, I think with your conscious forewarning as an astrologer for this malefic SLR has helped you think your way through this incident in a well-thought out manner. It will be good---soon you will be able to put this SLR behind you.

[Lyse]

Thanks Steve!