Swinger's Party

[Jim Eshelman]

I know I've been posting a lot today, and I plan to post more the following night (in my time). But this is important, so whatever.

Around a week ago I went to a swinger's party. It lasted from January 14, 9pm to January 15, 3am. I am not a very sexually experienced person and I am rather shy, so this was a massive leap from my comfort zone. I leapt from only having sex once to going to an orgy. It was a very intense experience and not something I would do again any time soon. (BTW I wasn't in a relationship with my ex during this time. We had simply drifted away and stopped seeing each other because we weren't that attracted and satisfied with each other.)

The experience at least taught me a few things, like how to approach someone and how to be comfortable with another person. Apparently there is a specific "type" of woman I am attracted to, one who is "alternative" (punk/goth/BDSM). The woman I spent the most time with was like that. She had pink hair, a black dress, a spiked belt, and a large New Age-ish tattoo on her back.

A very strange and intense experience on the whole. In some ways I still can't make sense of it. I'm still a big novice in interpreting "synastry" charts like this. I see all these patterns but I have a vague idea of what they mean. Are they same as interpreting aspects in a natal chart?

Some obvious stuff I notice in the sex party chart. The Sun (in Sagittarius) has no aspects. The Moon (in Libra) however trines Jupiter (in Cancer) and sextiles Pluto (in Sagittarius). Mars (in Aquarius) squares Saturn (in Scorpio) in a very hard aspect. The Mars in the sex party chart (in Aquarius) squares the Mars in my natal chart (in Taurus). The Moon in the sex party chart (in Libra) sextiles the Moon and Neptune in my natal chart (in Sagittarius). The Sun in the sex party chart conjuncts the Saturn in my natal chart (both in the final degree of Sagittarius).

[Jim Eshelman]

Transiting Pluto conj. Moon (10') - that's the big one! Read up on it. (And it followed on the recent passing of Uranus square your Moon.) Moon-Pluto was 0°01' in your January 9 Lunar Return.

Transiting Sun conj. r. Saturn (11' applying when the party started). This might have indicated the discomfort, unfamiliarity, cautiousness you seen to be describing.

Transiting Venus conj. r. Desc (56' applying when the party started), "and a good time was had by all," I imagine.

Your recent Solar Return has Mars rising, Uranus setting, Pluto conjunct Mercury on IC. These show liberalization and significant thresholds in Mars-related matters.

Your progressed Moon has made it to 24°24' Scorpio by the time the party began, and Venus was 24°16' Scorpio, conjoining it through the evening.

[Jim Eshelman]

Transiting Pluto conj. Moon (10') - that's the big one! Read up on it. (And it followed on the recent passing of Uranus square your Moon.) Moon-Pluto was 0°01' in your January 9 Lunar Return.

How did I not see that!

Transiting Venus conj. r. Desc (56' applying when the party started), "and a good time was had by all," I imagine.

A good time was had by all indeed. Unfortunately, I don't really understand this aspect. Is Venus conjunct the DSC in the sex party chart? In my natal chart?

Your recent Solar Return has Mars rising, Uranus setting, Pluto conjunct Mercury on IC. These show liberalization and significant thresholds in Mars-related matters.

I have often been criticized for not being assertive and for a long time I have been very shy with dating and sex. (This probably has to do with my Mars in retrograde and in detriment in Taurus. It's a buried Mars.) I am usually docile and complaint. For most of my life I have been passive-aggressive. Like rather than openly showing force I became stubborn, withdrawn, and just did things my way no matter what anybody wanted. The problem was even if I was unhappy I didn't know how to vocalize it or even assert it. I guess the sex party helped free the buried Mars to a degree.

Your progressed Moon has made it to 24°24' Scorpio by the time the party began, and Venus was 24°16' Scorpio, conjoining it through the evening.

That devil Scorpio, always up to no good! Did it influence my liking of "alternative" women or was that something else all together?

[Jim Eshelman]

Oh God I'm so sorry, Jim! I accidently put the years as 2015 when the years were 2016 the whole time! Here let me correct that for you! I'm terribly sorry!

So here are the aspects I notice.
In the sex party charts:
Sun conjuncts Mercury
Sun trines Jupiter
Mars trines Neptune

In relation to sex party charts and my natal chart:
Pluto in sex party charts conjuncts my Moon and Neptune in my natal chart
Sun and Mercury in sex party charts conjuncts Saturn in my natal chart
Pluto in sex party charts sextiles Pluto in my natal chart
Moon in sex party charts sextiles Mars in my natal chart
Moon in sex party charts squared the Sun in my natal chart but only in the first two hours

Almost all of your earlier remarks apply just as they had before and do not lose any accuracy:

Transiting Sun conj. r. Saturn (11' applying when the party started). This might have indicated the discomfort, unfamiliarity, cautiousness you seen to be describing.

Transiting Venus conj. r. Desc (56' applying when the party started), "and a good time was had by all," I imagine.

Your recent Solar Return has Mars rising, Uranus setting, Pluto conjunct Mercury on IC. These show liberalization and significant thresholds in Mars-related matters.

Your progressed Moon has made it to 24°24' Scorpio by the time the party began, and Venus was 24°16' Scorpio, conjoining it through the evening.

The only remark that is out of place is the one about the Moon conjuncting Pluto one, as the Moon was in Pisces, not in Libra. As the party started both Venus and Saturn were conjunct the DSC (or at least in the foreground). Jupiter and Neptune were both in the foreground when the party started as well as when the party ended (I think).

Can you provide any updated insights?

[Jim Eshelman]

Oh God I'm so sorry, Jim! I accidently put the years as 2015 when the years were 2016 the whole time! Here let me correct that for you! I'm terribly sorry!

Not a problem. I didn't look at your charts, I did them myself, and I used 2016 in the calculation (I just took the data from out of your post and assumed it was this year.) It was January 14, 2016 that had Venus at 24° Scorpio, conjunct your natal Descendant and your progressed Moon.

[Jim Eshelman]

Transiting Venus conj. r. Desc (56' applying when the party started), "and a good time was had by all," I imagine.

A good time was had by all indeed. Unfortunately, I don't really understand this aspect. Is Venus conjunct the DSC in the sex party chart? In my natal chart?

As we now know, you were looking at the wrong charts. Transiting Venus at 24°16' Scorpio (when the party began) conjoined your natal Descendant 25°12' Scorpio.

Your progressed Moon has made it to 24°24' Scorpio by the time the party began, and Venus was 24°16' Scorpio, conjoining it through the evening.

That devil Scorpio, always up to no good! Did it influence my liking of "alternative" women or was that something else all together?

I don't think the sign matters much. The main way to understand this is simply means transiting Venus conjunct your progressed Moon (read like a transit to natal Moon).

The sign may have a couple of smaller effects. Progressed Moon seems to color us a bit, so the two years it's spending in Scorpio has probably marked this as a time such as sexual intensification in general.

I wonder, though... has your very strong attraction to Scorpio women been primarily during the last two years? If so, then it's your progressed Moon responding especially strong to their Sun-sign.

[Jim Eshelman]

As we now know, you were looking at the wrong charts. Transiting Venus at 24°16' Scorpio (when the party began) conjoined your natal Descendant 25°12' Scorpio.

Oh, now I get it.

I don't think the sign matters much. The main way to understand this is simply means transiting Venus conjunct your progressed Moon (read like a transit to natal Moon).

Like this?

Moon-Venus
Vivid feeling responses, intense emotional life (moodiness). Temperamentally hungry for affection (affection received, being in love); need for gentleness, tenderness,caressing, touching, holding; responding with full sensual vigor to another's enamored advances. Responding to beauty (aesthetics, art-minded). Marked predominance of female component in behavior (any problems arise from inability to accept full scope of feminine side); desire for children. High frustration tolerance, usually happy state of mind (shared happiness).

I did feel an intense affection for the woman I had sex with. I actually ended up liking her and wished we could actually have a date or something else more "normal" like that. But I'll probably never see her again and that makes me sad.

On a less intimate level my relationships to family members have been benign and calm. They used to be very turbulent in the past.

I can't find any link for Sun-Saturn return.

I wonder, though... has your very strong attraction to Scorpio women been primarily during the last two years? If so, then it's your progressed Moon responding especially strong to their Sun-sign.

I first knew Monica in early 2013. I haven't known any Scorpio Sun women well until then.

[Jim Eshelman]

Sun-Saturn transits are discussed here: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=43&p=217#p217

Your progressed Moon entered Scorpio December 22, 2013.

[Jim Eshelman]

I think one remark you made was the most important. Here it is:

Your recent Solar Return has Mars rising, Uranus setting, Pluto conjunct Mercury on IC. These show liberalization and significant thresholds in Mars-related matters.

And here is my own response on why it is so important. It probably really helped me develop as a person:

I have often been criticized for not being assertive and for a long time I have been very shy with dating and sex. (This probably has to do with my Mars in retrograde and in detriment in Taurus. It's a buried Mars.) I am usually docile and complaint. For most of my life I have been passive-aggressive. Like rather than openly showing force I became stubborn, withdrawn, and just did things my way no matter what anybody wanted. The problem was even if I was unhappy I didn't know how to vocalize it or even assert it. I guess the sex party helped free the buried Mars to a degree.

[Jim Eshelman]

I have often been criticized for not being assertive and for a long time I have been very shy with dating and sex. (This probably has to do with my Mars in retrograde and in detriment in Taurus. It's a buried Mars.) I am usually docile and complaint. For most of my life I have been passive-aggressive. Like rather than openly showing force I became stubborn, withdrawn, and just did things my way no matter what anybody wanted. The problem was even if I was unhappy I didn't know how to vocalize it or even assert it. I guess the sex party helped free the buried Mars to a degree.

Hi Bogdan,
Maybe your natal Mars is not responsible for this as Mars is angular conjunct Eastpoint in your natal chart ( 0°37') Perhaps this is due to Pluto foreground in your natal chart? Or the unaspected Sun?
Regards,
Florence

[Jim Eshelman]

I bet not a lot of people have this experience ever during their lifetime

But wouldn't a swinger's party be couples, swinging - exchanging sex partners?
An orgie and a swinger's party are not the same thing by definition.

[Jim Eshelman]

Some parties have single men in them. Some don't. It depends on the party in question.

[Jim Eshelman]

But wouldn't a swinger's party be couples, swinging - exchanging sex partners?
An orgie and a swinger's party are not the same thing by definition.

That's the usual definition, yes.

[Jim Eshelman]

Used to be a swinger's party was for swingers, i.e. couples willing to trade partners. Now it's just a party where people have sex with random people they expect to never see again. Usually a lot of very drunken people from what I've been told, which takes care of the excess male problem.

[Jim Eshelman]

Well, of course, some parties have no problem with the "excess male" problem because they are bisexual events.

But, at least in SoCal, organized events still deal with it by requiring every male to arrive with a female or, as an older counterbalance, to run them all like "ladies' night events," where a fee is charged to attend but waved for women.

Then again, there are just sex parties!

(To my surprise, I see that Urban Dictionary and similar sites now define "swinger" primarily as a sexually active uncommitted person, i.e., someone single or partnered practicing promiscuity as a lifestyle. As JSAD effectively said, this is wider than the historic usage.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Ok, interesting. I've always in my mind connected this term with couples opening up their relationship to have sex with other people, maybe even just two or a few couples exchanging partners knowingly and openly, but still being together in a relationship.

Well, anyway, Bogdan went to a crazy sex party/orgy. That's unusual.

[Jim Eshelman]

Ok, interesting. I've always in my mind connected this term with couples opening up their relationship to have sex with other people, maybe even just two or a few couples exchanging partners knowingly and openly, but still being together in a relationship.

Well, anyway, Bogdan went to a crazy sex party/orgy. That's unusual.

I too thought of swinger party like that.
Bogdan is updating our dictionaries on these matters , which is quite fitting given his natal stellium in Sag:

Venus 13*37'
Mercury 13*53'
Uranus 14*19'

Neptune 19*00'
Moon 20*24

[Jim Eshelman]

But, at least in SoCal, organized events still deal with by requiring every make to arrive with a female or, as an older counterbalance, to run them all like "ladies' night events," where a fee is charged to attend but waved for women.

Mine was like this. Most of the people who came were actually women and the event itself was overseen by women.

[Jim Eshelman]

prostitution?

then that is a whole different thing.

[Jim Eshelman]

prostitution?

then that is a whole different thing.

No, not at all. The women aren't getting paid. They're partiers like the men. They just don't have to pay a fee to get in the door, just as, in a "Ladies' Night" at a bar, women don't pay for their drinks - because they attract a lot of men!

The payment is for the people throwing the party, the promoters - just like other sorts of parties, clubs, etc.

[Jim Eshelman]

Aha, ok. So they do it like that. I guess I am used to other kind of parties

[Jim Eshelman]

I recently friended the woman I had sex with at the swinger's party. Her birthday is March 17. What is with me and Pisces women!?

[Jim Eshelman]

I recently friended the woman I had sex with at the swinger's party. Her birthday is March 17. What is with me and Pisces women!?

Not just Pisces... but Sun exactly square your Sun (to the degree).

[Jim Eshelman]

What does that mean in particular?

From the Synastry section: http://www.solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=32

Recognition/identification: Each person is simultaneously trying to assert the urge to dominate and take charge. An ego clash may result. In the case of business partners it is often fortunate: each person is tuned into exactly what the other is wanting and thinking and their goals and senses of priority are well-matched. Yet they are generally not susceptible to compromise once there are differences. An understanding should be had as to who is really boss. Each should learn to give in to the other without feeling his or her pride so dearly bruised.

[Jim Eshelman]

I have often been criticized for not being assertive and for a long time I have been very shy with dating and sex. (This probably has to do with my Mars in retrograde and in detriment in Taurus. It's a buried Mars.) I am usually docile and complaint. For most of my life I have been passive-aggressive. Like rather than openly showing force I became stubborn, withdrawn, and just did things my way no matter what anybody wanted.

I have often been criticized for not being assertive and for a long time I have been very shy with dating and sex. ... I am usually docile and complaint.

Docile, compliant, and passive - Mercury-Saturn midpoint (287°40') and Venus-Saturn midpoint = Moon (286°27'). Saturn (old)-Uranus (new) midpoint (287°56') is there also. Sun-MC midpoint (296°55') = Saturn (296°06'). So many planets in combination overcoming the Mars square MC expression most of the time.

For most of my life I have been passive-aggressive.

The aggressive - Mars ( 56°17') square MC (327°27'). 56°17' + 270° = 326°17'.

Like rather than openly showing force I became stubborn, withdrawn, and just did things my way no matter what anybody wanted.

Above comments combined for your last sentence above.

Venus-Saturn midpoint referenced above is at 287°34'.

[Jim Eshelman]

Wow I didn't know that midpoints could show so much!

[Jim Eshelman]

Scales wrote:

Wow I didn't know that midpoints could show so much!

IMO, midpoint analysis as taught by Robert Hand is very important for Natal Chart interpretations. I definitely believe all midpoints are not created equally, as Hand teaches. I don't believe Hand ever wrote a book on Midpoints, only taught his system of midpoints in a seminar, which I have the tapes of this seminar stored away somewhere. These tapes may still be available and I will later try to find a direct source where these tapes can be ordered.