Tel Aviv 2024 Arisolar

[SteveS]

Jim, there are news reports that Iran is going to launch a major missile attack on Israel. I suppose this has high probability of happening by looking at Tel Aviv, Israel Arisolar beginning soon (link below). I see that Tel Aviv’s Pluto has an Azi of 269,37. Does this compute a class 1 PVP Mars-Pluto square? I can’t locate Matthew’s Mundane Large Page to check for this per your instructions yesterday. Your thoughts?

https://ibb.co/9tq37Qg

[Jim Eshelman]

I remember in the Arisolar thread I cited Mars and Saturn lines going through Israel (and various Mars and Saturn lines bathing that general area including the Gaza coast, Suez, and Cairo). Here are the basics:

Mars on WP 0°20' [0°46' from Dsc]
Saturn on WP-a 0°48' [3°18' from Dsc]
-- Ma/Sa on EP-a 0°55'
-- -- -- Mars-Saturn co 2°29'
Moon-Venus sq 0°43' M

Despite the Moon-Venus square worldwide, there is no sign of peace for the area, and increasing hardship and suffering seems certain.

Steve's question concerns Pluto being mundanely on Vertex, 0°17' off in azimuth. Of course, being on the Vertex alone means nothing at all in an ingress - it's statistically insignificant. However, there is reason to think that Pluto (which, is minutes from the prime vertical) is square Mars (which is only minutes off Descendant). Let's check the meridian longitudes of these planets:

0°05' H1 - Mars
0°18' H1 - Pluto
0°23' H1 - Saturn

We find a 0°13' Mars-Pluto PVP square and a 0°05' Saturn-Pluto PVP square. Adding these to the picture above is incredibly, stunningly brutal and destructive. Saturn-Pluto aspects have coincided (at the extreme) with the ultimate fall and demolition of places, e.g.: extreme earthquakes and ground-levelling hurricanes like the quakes that leveled Avezzano and nearly destroyed Tokyo, the eruption of Krakatoa, and Hurricane Sandy; Destruction of the Second Temple, the first successful sack of Constantinople, the fall of Saigon, etc.

[Jim Eshelman]

Iran launched drones (over 100) toward Israel. CNN reported on this by at 4:19 PM EDT, and the launch was likely soon before that.

The drones will take several hours to reach israel.

[Veronica]

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim. Adding PVP Mars-Pluto into the mix with Mars-Saturn will be a good test for the Mars-Pluto PVP. Do you agree?

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks Jim. Adding PVP Mars-Pluto into the mix with Mars-Saturn will be a good test for the Mars-Pluto PVP. Do you agree?

I'm not sure how I would read this chart differently by adding the Pluto into it. Most of what I would say could also fit the Mars-Saturn alone. Pluto might have magnitude and scale (intensity) but, everything specific I might pull up would be described equally by the chart with just the exactly angular Mars-Saturn conjunction.

[SteveS]

Iran has said that this attack will be their last attack unless Israel retaliates, but if Israel retaliates their next attack on Israel will be far worse. In my way of thinking when we add Pluto symbolism into the mix of any war situation we see "stunning/shocking" results. I was impressed with Israel's defense system for this attack, but I think the Arisolar had not begun when the missiles/drones were being shot down. It is kinda surreal watching all this war stuff unfold with these Arisolars starring us in our faces.

Jim, this war situation started when Hamas (Iran) attacked Israel last Oct. Rings has asked me if inception event charts can be used in Sidereal Astrology to predict further events into the future, I said I can't recall ever seeing this system used in Sidereal Astrology. Do you have a time you trust for the attack on Israel last Oct? If so, maybe we could test this latest attack on Israel.

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, this war situation started when Hamas (Iran) attacked Israel last Oct. Rings has asked me if inception event charts can be used in Sidereal Astrology to predict further events into the future, I said I can't recall ever seeing this system used in Sidereal Astrology. Do you have a time you trust for the attack on Israel last Oct? If so, maybe we could test this latest attack on Israel.

In theory, inception charts can be used this way, and occasionally there is a good result. I don't find it very reliable, though.

While I spent many years on and off saying "astrology is the science of beginnings" - every beginning is a horoscope! - I stopped saying it not so much because I think it's untrue (it's probably true in principle) but rather because it doesn't get us very far (except in after-the-fact justification). The universe is obviously a complex engine with an infinite number of interlocking, interconnected "charts," each having a seemingly endless number of predictive layers operating simultaneously and, at best, we are completely incapable of managing such a complexity. I think focusing on the basics - ingresses for Israel and perhaps Israel's natal chart - is our best strategy.

In practical terms, i think there is no stopping it until Netanyahu is removed from power. He will keep it going as long as he can, with the goal of obliterating any Palestinian areas in what he considers Israel's domain and attacking other countries around them. Netanyahu's chart is probably one to watch.

The Hamas attack on Israel began October 7, 2023, around 6:30 AM EEDT. It is from Tel Aviv that, soon after, Netanyahu announced Israel was at war. The charts are discussed here:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8085

Netanyahu's chart is rated DD but that's because of several times in a fairly narrow range. I consider it C because everything proposed in the range is technically a rectification. Several times and tweaks spinning off an under-documented report of 10:30. All times are within a close range of that time - and then one other alleged report of 11:45 AM. The seeming correct time (which has some persuasive features, especially answering the question of how he could have stayed in power so long) is: October 21, 1949, 10:30 AM EEDT, Tel Aviv, Israel.

[Jim Eshelman]

For the 10:30 AM time, Netanyahu's 2023 SSR (16 days after the attack) has transiting Venus-Saturn and natal Venus-Saturn on angles, plus a close Moon-Sun aspect tightly tied to Pluto. This all seems quite descriptive of him in his current year.

The attack occurred under an SSR dominated by transiting Moon and a little Neptune and, primarily, natal Saturn 0°16' from Asc. Moon aspected natal Venus-Saturn. I take this as fitting on many levels: he was in political trouble at the time, this was a horrible thing to happen on his watch, and it gave him every opportunity to launch and prosecute his long-time agenda.

His September 30 Demi-SLR is less decisive. The main feature, though, is transiting Sun on MC exactly square natal Uranus with a sneaky transiting Mercury-Neptune opposition more widely angular.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I think focusing on the basics - ingresses for Israel and perhaps Israel's natal chart - is our best strategy.

I totally agree Jim! The more I work with em the more in awe I am for major events. I am still mystified by why the Cardinal Ingresses, but as you say: don’t get wrapped-up in the WHY, only pay attention if the method works.
Jim wrote:

In practical terms, i think there is no stopping it until Netanyahu is removed from power. He will keep it going as long as he can, with the goal of obliterating any Palestinian areas in what he considers Israel's domain and attacking other countries around them. Netanyahu's chart is probably one to watch.

Indeed Jim! I was forewarned about this part of the world when I was 22 and told I may live to see the day when it totally comes apart, and to always pay close attention to what is happening. Well, now that I have studied Sidereal Mundane Astrology, I am paying very close attention to the Arisolar!

Thanks Jim for the other timing info.

[Jim Eshelman]

Tel Aviv has a single planet angular in the 2024 Capsolar: Saturn is 0°04', Both in terms of what they are experiencing and what they are dishing out, this is entirely appropriate. (It's in 2°03' PVP square to Sun, with various obvious meanings.)

OTOH one would hope that the 0°27' Moo-Venus mundane square (just under 3° worldwide) might bring peace during this year. That Moon is also conjunct Neptune makes this less certain, though Moon-Venus aspects are the most common for peace maps.

We know what the Arisolar looks like. (See the top of this thread.) It's brutal and hurtful.

The Cansolar is dormant, so the Arisolar lasts for six months. However, the Cansolar adds too Moon aspects that are unhappy under the circumstances: Moon opposite Mars and Moon opposite Uranus. In PVL:

22°19' H10 - Uranus - 1°18' Taurus
23°31' H10 - Mars - 2°21' Taurus
24°59' H4 - Moon - 6°19' Scorpio

The Libsolar brings Venus 0°19' from Nadir, Uranus 1°11' from MC. They are in somewhat wide mundane opposition (3°27'). Venus-Uranus pairs signal beginnings and endings of war, i.e., "changes in relationships with other countries or parties." There is a worldwide ecliptic Moon-Pluto square. The best chance for peace this year is after mid-October.

In 2025, Israel's Capsolar has Uranus 0°07' from Descendant - a totally different look suggesting that, indeed, the year of suffering ended in the prior quarter. The Arisolar is Venus, Jupiter, and a little Saturn. The Cansolar is Pluto and a little Sun (elections?). Only the Libsolar is potentially warlike with its Mercury-Mars conjunction exactly rising.

Overall, it does not look like Israel is at war next year (at least, for the most part).


As for the fall of 2024, the October 11 Caplunar has Jupiter most angular (a little Saturn and Neptune in the wings) and Moon aspecting Mercury and Pluto. The 10/23 Canlunar is rather bellicose - great fighting and turmoil still happening - but a sense of a turning point - and the 10/31 Liblunar is quiet and peaceful (and perhaps victorious).

The 11/7 Caplunar, timed with the U.S. elections, is Mars-driven - Mars on Nadir aspecting Uranus and Pluto - and seems climactic and threatening. The 11/13 Arilunar is fairly terrible, the strongest mark being an exactly angular Saturn. The 11/20 Canlunar looks like a full resolution, with Mercury opposite Jupiter most angular among other things.

The 12/4 Caplunar is a Mars chart but with a Moon-Venus conjunction. If I'm right about the foregoing, this is still a stabilizing period. The 12/11 Arilunar shows significant changes in relationship (though, taken by itself, it doesn't look all that friendly - if war hadn't already been waging, it might be seen as a war map.) The 12/17 Canlunar (lasting the rest of the year) is most consistent with successful diplomacy but with a lot of horse-trading and no small amount of deception or undisclosed details.

January 1 opens thew new year with a Caplunar that continues politics, horse-trading, and secrecy reaching the level of outright lies. No other live lunar ingress occurs until the new Capsolar: On the same day, a Canlunar has benefics and power-play planets angular.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

We know what the Arisolar looks like. (See the top of this thread.) It's brutal and hurtful. The Cansolar is dormant, so the Arisolar lasts for six months. However, the Cansolar adds too Moon aspects that are unhappy under the circumstances: Moon opposite Mars and Moon opposite Uranus. In PVL:
22°19' H10 - Uranus - 1°18' Taurus
23°31' H10 - Mars - 2°21' Taurus
24°59' H4 - Moon - 6°19' Scorpio
The best chance for peace this year is after mid-October.

It scares the hell out of me because I understand what it could mean if this region comes under complete control of Iran who hates the West (America). I don’t believe the powers will allow this to happen but the consequences for not allowing this to happen could affect USA in the malefic Solar Arc ways Jim has pointed out with Bradley’s USA Chart. Iran has already tried to destroy Saudi Arabia/s oil fields. Energy is such a critical factor for the West economically. Maybe the rapid advance in technology can save the day. Let’s all hope this region (Israel) gets through this Arisolar time period without a "brutal/hurtful Mars-Saturn-Pluto disaster. Keep you eyes on the markets—they usually know the truth of things before a possible final event happens.

Thanks Jim for the rest of your long term analysis.

[staragewiz]

With Mars conj Saturn on Tel Aviv's Desc.apparently little damage to Isreal's
infrastructure was done, We'll have to wait and see if that is the case.
However this brutal angular pairing could portend even more death and destruction
in the region, Free Palestine!

[SteveS]

“Timing is everything” and obviously Tel Aviv’s Arisolar is timing these attacks. Without Donald Bradley's brilliant astrological work in the Sidereal Zodiac, we could not have seen this piece of Sidereal Mundane Astrology manifesting the events. DC is also faced with its Mars-Saturn Arisolar but has an angular Jup-Ur. Maybe/hopefully the Jup-Ur manifests in benefic ways. Could it be Isarel's/USA defense system working so well is part of the Jup-Ur? I had no idea about this defense system, and I think maybe the world was surprised how well it worked. For sure, it was a successful test for their defense system, at least for now.

[SteveS]

By the overnight's price action in the futures market, the attack on Israel was no big world deal, markets are trading normally! I am guessing smart money took some profits in the bull prices of gold, they always know things that the public does not know. Let's see what TIME tells us for the future of this volatile war situations in the Mid-East.

[SteveS]

I am being asked by friends/family members as an astrologer what my astrology is telling me is going to happen with the declared war between Israel and Iran. I have told them I am looking at a key chart ( Arisolar) for Israel, which is in effect for 6 months from April 14 symbolizing there is high % that Israel will suffer stunning destructive damage. Today, Iran stated if Israel counter attacks, Iran uses weapons that have never before been used on Israel. I tell them if a weapon of mass destruction is going to be used on Israel the NYSE markets with high % will know and eventually start to discount this news.
Jim, have you ever tested Israel's National Chart for reliability? If so, what is Israel’s National Chart?

[Jim Eshelman]

I was thinking of dragging Israel's chart out again and looking. Going from memory, we have a half hour to an hour leeway in time based on different reports, then an Alexander Marr rectification that got a lot of attention Spica and is the one I used historically. I'd probably start with that and test from there. (Steve, you have all the Spica issues we have, and can look up the original articles.)

The chart I have in my files at the moment is May 14, 1948, 3:00 PM EET, Tel Aviv, Israel, with a note that it's from Alexande Marr in Spica VII:1; but I'll look for other notes.

[Jim Eshelman]

As usual, Astro.com has tracked the times issue pretty well. They give 4:00 PM as the A-rated time (on May 14, 1948, in Tel Aviv). It was the Sabbath eve, so they had to be done with everything by sundown.

Here's a simplified version of what they say:

Nick Campion book of national charts gives 4:00 PM, so that's what Astro.com uses. Here is a quote from that book:

In the atmosphere of crisis, and an invasion by the Arab Legion at dawn on 12 May, the Jewish leaders arranged a meeting to proclaim independence at 4.00 pm on 14 May in the Tel Aviv Museum... The meeting began precisely at 4.00 pm, as arranged, when [David] Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister, struck the table with his gavel. The audience then rose spontaneously and burst into the Hatikva, the anthem of the Zionist movement. It is clear that Ben-Gurion himself regarded 4.00 pm as the critical time...Ben-Gurion finished reading the independence statement and manifesto at 4.24 pm. The scroll of independence was then signed by the 24 members of the National Committee who were present and the meeting concluded at 4.32 pm when Ben-Gurion spoke the words 'Israel has been born!

Based on this I would theoretically prefer 4:32 PM, or no earlier than 4:24 PM, but these have to be tested.

I think I recorded Marr's time incorrectly. I had thought it was 4:15 PM, not 3 PM, and Astro.com quotes Isaac Starkman as quoting Marr's rectification for 4:15:07 PM. If you want a starting time based on Marr's skills, 4:15 PM is a good guess.

I'll do a little checking against October 7.

[Jim Eshelman]

Here's a start: The 4:15 PM time gives an Ascendant of 2°13' Libra. At the time the Hamas attack was launched:

1°34' Lib - t Mars
2°13' Lib - possible r Asc
2°50' Cap - t Pluto

This does suggest the time is pretty darn close. Also, SSR Mars was 2°12' Cancer.

Other transits:
t Neptune sq r Uranus 23'
t Jupiter sq r Pluto 9'

Saturn was about 2° from opposite natal Mars. This is too wide by itself, but appropriate if it falls in a relevant angle.


Solar arcs for this time have two solid hits EXCEPT there are multiple theoretical angles in the neighborhood and other alignments are possible. Nonetheless, the two seeming clean hits are:

4°29' Lib - d Saturn
4°38' Can - r MC

16°34' Vir - r Neptune
16°41' Vir - d MC

Notice that Saturn to MC at the same time as MC to Neptune tells us (without looking) that the natal has MC = Saturn/Neptune and this was activated. Sure enough, on checking, natal Sa/Ne is 19°29' Leo, aspecting 4°29' Virgo, 9' from the chart's MC.

[Jim Eshelman]

Checking quotidians for refinement:

SNQ has Asc sq t Neptune -10' and natal Mercury on EP-a. SQ has nothing. PSSR had various things near but not exactly at the angles, but at least had the interesting t Sun op PSSR Moon 0°02'.

I' not inclined to draw conclusions from this.

SSR MC was 0°19' Libra. This starts to tie in transiting and SSR Mars and Pluto, though none of it is as precise a hit as the (possible) natal Ascendant first mentioned above.

I'm skeptical of the reliability of solar and lunar returns in nation charts. Some seem quite good, others seem not to click. Nonetheless, just to look, Israel's 2023 SSR was primarily a peace and prosperity SSR, so I wouldn't think it very descriptive.

The 9/11 SLR is unclear, primarily having Neptune to natal Jupiter-Uranus on angles. The 9/25 Demi-SLR is tense, tragic, and hard by its partile non-foreground aspects, that included a transiting Saturn-Uranus square and a Venus transit to natal Saturn. Nonetheless, these would be far better if foreground.

The real mark, though, is the October 8 SLR. This was already on its way in and certainly shows things as of the next morning. It has Mars square Pluto (0°24') foreground, Sun on natal Neptune, and Mars square natal Venus. Transiting Pluto is the most angular planet, natal Neptune the second. It's better than OK.

I'm comfortable using a 4:15 PM time.

[SteveS]

Excellent work Jim!!! I will look into the near future with this timed chart, and if you look before me post your thoughts. Thank you.