Using the Novien to clarify Natal Synastry

[Lyse]

A partial synastry for an impactful but platonic relationship. There were close aspects between our natal charts, as well as the Novien-to-natal but his Novien Saturn 90° to my natal Venus accurately described the outcome. This wasn’t completely apparent in the natal-to-natal though I could see other issues.

Natal-Natal

Venus 16°47’ Ari
ASC 16°56’ Lib (Lyse)

Venus 22°43’ Gem (Lyse)
ASC 21°37‘ Vir
MC 25°42’ Gem

Novien-to-Natal

N Saturn 22°25’ Vir
n Venus 22°43’ Gem

After having looked at a number of personal synastry charts and analyzing them further using the Novien-to-Natal with friends, family or partners, some of the closest aspects in the Novien often revealed the nature of the relationship.

Have you noticed anything similar, Jim?

[Jim Eshelman]

Most definitely. - One of the striking and puzzling things is that Novien-to-natal seem to work quite well but Novien-to-Novien do not.

[Lyse]

Thanks.

[Arena]

the Novien-to-natal but his Novien Saturn 90° to my natal Venus accurately described the outcome.

This kind of post and "observation" has no meaning unless we follow up by accurately describe what the incident or outcome it is we are referring to. In this incident we have no idea what you're talking about. Was this a long term committed, full of responsibility, work related (Saturn) friendship(Venus)? Was it destructive,r estrictive? What was the "outcome" you're referring to?

[Lyse]

This kind of post and "observation" has no meaning unless we follow up by accurately describe what the incident or outcome it is we are referring to. In this incident we have no idea what you're talking about. Was this a long term committed, full of responsibility, work related (Saturn) friendship(Venus)? Was it destructive,r estrictive? What was the "outcome" you're referring to?

It was a short term, two year acquaintance. There was no physical relationship, as there wasn’t a sexual attraction on my part to this man. We unexpectedly came together on a different level for spiritual reasons. The encounter changed my life, to such an extent that it overhauled my outlook on what I wanted in a partner and revealed deeper aspects of my personality. After its conclusion I met my husband, the only man I’ve ever loved, therefore the outcome was positive. If there had been a sexual component, nothing would have held me back.

Because of the intense nature of the relationship, I’m unable to give further positions of our synastry that might explain this in more detail but would compromise his privacy.

My point here was, although there were extremely close Venus/angular connections as well as other partile aspects between two people, it doesn’t always translate into a loving or physical relationship. It was an observation on one particular aspect between the Novien-to-natal that accurately described the outcome better than the straight synastry. Essentially, this was a limited for-purpose, high impact, non-physical relationship.

[Arena]

Thank you Lyse.

Perhaps the Novien charts give some kind of clues. However the Saturn to Venus aspect is not necessarily an aspect that results in "not a love relationship". I have my r. Saturn opposite my man's r.Venus and square his Saturn. We are in a very very loving relationship for almost five years. Saturn aspects can in some instances mean long term commitment and that you have to take on responsibility with the relationship. In our case, I think it might be because we both had children when we met, so increased responsibility with being step-parents as well.

[Lyse]

Perhaps the Novien charts give some kind of clues. However the Saturn to Venus aspect is not necessarily an aspect that results in "not a love relationship".

Thank you, Arena, I agree that Venus aspecting Saturn or angular for that matter, can work out in different ways. My granddaughter’s natal Venus is precisely conjunct my angle in our synastry but in the Novien-to-natal, her N Saturn aspects my n Venus as the closest aspect. Currently, my primary focus is taking care of her, so a good example. My sample size is small and it was no more than an observation.

[Jim Eshelman]

In my experience, the most typical expressions of Venus-Saturn interchanges center around themes of limited happiness, pleasure in work, devotion, sacrifice, parent dynamics, and lost love. There's a lot of room for variation in all of that (and, of course, the other aspects matter a lot). A longer description of the same points:

Work relationships thrive better than emotional ones. Saturn limits Venus' happiness or pleasure. Work (including creative partnerships) can prosper, work itself giving pleasure. Or Venus may sacrifice happiness from devotion, duty, or service, as in caretaking Saturn. Though rarely a close aspect for intimate relationships, it can bring commitment and perseverance that may secure happiness. Parent-child dynamics commonly play out. It may signify unrequited or lost love or friendship, which leaves a long, sad shadow on one or both lives. Venus especially may feel alone, excluded, or neglected. Saturn may resist closeness or find perverse pleasure in its own inadequacies, refusing solace or intimacy.

Long, enduring, important relationships have had this. It seems to me they thrived best when there was a "shared labor" or work-related component, and, of public examples, there has usually been an element of tragedy or distance in it; for example, Truman Capote & Harper Lee, Karen & Richard Carpenter, Felicia & Leonard Bernstein, John Lennon & Paul McCartney, and the unusually grisly Myra Hindley & Ian Brady (might we call that a "successful work relationship" lol?).

[Arena]

Yes indeed, many different outcomes and other aspects matter. I guess I should add creative partnership and pleasure in creative work as artists in the case for me and my partner.