0.4.10 alpha release

[Mike V]

I have finally gotten my understanding of the codebase and the build process to the point where I'm able to build an installer, and the installed program actually works.

This is just a test to see if I have enough information to proceed with new features. Here's what I expect you'll find (and if I'm wrong it means there are bugs):

• The installer looks and behaves differently. This is because I don't have access to Mike Nelson's previous installer setup, and there's a lot that I don't know how to pull off yet. It just installs the necessary files (though you get to pick where) and makes a shortcut on your desktop; no student vs advanced installation, no prompt to create a shortcut; it just does it.
• There's no program icon or shortcut icon. I've tried a bunch of things for a few days and I can't get that to work yet.
• The landing page has updated language and spacing which I think are consistent with Jim's most recent requests.
• "TMSA" is renamed everywhere (except some file paths) to "Time Matters."
• I tweaked the installation location of some underlying Swiss Ephemeris files as well as the error log (they're local to the installation folder now instead of being in a fixed place on the C drive).
• I think that you shouldn't notice any other differences in behavior - it should read all of your existing options and charts, and it should be able to calculate everything just as before (i.e. no crashes because it doesn't know where a file is).

I'd love if you could test it out when you get the chance and let me know if I broke anything (besides the icons). Maybe, just as a safety precaution, back up your charts and other options
(I cannot imagine why or even how they could be lost... but that doesn't mean that they can't be.)

I intend for the full 0.4.10 "release" to just be a stable re-release with my version of the codebase and some updated language, but no new features. The 0.5.x series will add new features.

[replaced with 0.4.11:] https://mega.nz/file/cXMGDQab#NL74dEauN ... Pdodt4uPyE

[Mike V]

I intend to eventually host the download links in a fixed location, but there are some things I have to figure out with that first.

[Jim Eshelman]

You're one of those Virgo Moons that stays up all night doing Mercury things, right?

This is a great step. Very exciting! I'm downloading now. [Oh, just noticed it's done.]

You might want to report the download site as safe to Microsoft, otherwise native security features like Defender will mark it as a suspect item. I know what I'm doing and tried three times before I could get it to confirm the file as safe to finish downloading. I clicked to report the download site and package as safe, but it wants owner info and representations I couldn't provide. (This may be irrelevant once your full download system is ready.)

More later. Busy morning at work and it looks like I'm ready to click Finish and see what happens next. (And yes, with Sun opposite my Saturn this morning and the Mars-Neptune conjunction in Pisces exact today, all sorts of things COULD go wrong, so I backed up my TMSA folder before I did anything else so that problems wouldn't cascade across every machine on which I have this installed.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Mike, where is the executable stored?

By outward signs, the installer ran to what it thinks is completion. In fact, when I thought it hadn't run, I launched it again and it gave me Uninstall/Repair options (I ran Repair on principle, just to have it to something, and it seemed satisfied with the outcome).

But I can't find the program. Win 11 Start menu doesn't show any newly installed items. Searching for tmsa only produces the earlier install (which is still there) complete with app icon. Launching that one (shortcut still pinned to taskbar) opens the program with 0.4.9.2 label and historic text.

So I'm pretty sure I'm not running the new one even though it looked like it installed and then looked like it repaired itself when asked.

BTW, Settings > Apps > I stalled apps does show Time Matters 0.4.10 in addition to Time Matters Sidereal Astrology 0.4.9.x, so it's there. I just kind find it to launch it.

[Jim Eshelman]

Belay that. Indexing caught up and, lo and behold, the app is on the desktop. (It appears to be the actual executable, not a shortcut.) On launching it, two things happen: One, I get an error message (I'll post it if it persists) and, two, I find that Windows Defender is blocking the installed program. I'll go fix that and come back. (On the earlier version, I'd allowed unverified code to run from the exact folder it needed, but perhaps this is a different location. Off to check.)

[Later: I see it is actually in %localappdata%\programs\Time Matters, including tmsa.exe. I guess that really is a shortcut on the desktop (somehow I missed that even when I went looking for it - the format in Win 11 is still unfamiliar for things like icon Properties).]

[Jim Eshelman]

We have liftoff! Next... testing. (This is exciting.)

[Jim Eshelman]

A few remarks before I go into testing...

First: Congratulations on pulling this together.

It just installs the necessary files (though you get to pick where) and makes a shortcut on your desktop; no student vs advanced installation, no prompt to create a shortcut; it just does it.

You did say desktop, and I missed that completely. (That's the executable, right? Not a shortcut? And it eventually will go in Program Files or some such location?)

I didn't get an option to select install location. (I don 't need one, but you said there would be one.)

Student vs. Advanced will be back later? (I don 't know if anyone uses it, but it was an intentional step so we could layer in "starter" settings that weren't necessarily what one would se later.(

The landing page has updated language and spacing which I think are consistent with Jim's most recent requests.

• It fits very well on a half-screen.
• I wonder if the copyright and credits might go under the buttons (among other things, raising the buttons on the screen and putting things necessary but less important to the user at the bottom.
• One button doesn't fit on half screen mode: "Chart of the Moment" gets horizontally scrunched. Down the road, maybe change to "Chart for Now" to trim six characters.
• Title still says "Time Matters Sidereal Astrology" (but see below).
• Program title gets cut off at the top by the title bar. Probably needs to come down a line.

"TMSA" is renamed everywhere (except some file paths) to "Time Matters."

Not on the landing screen. - BTW, that's fine since my original idea was to keep the old name under 0.5, then make a big deal of the rebrand when the fully QA'd 0.5 was released as 1.0 - but, sure, it can be changed earlier. - Relevant feedback at the moment is that the name isn't changed on the first screen.

OK, off to testing.

[Jim Eshelman]

Impressions as I go...

It kept my Program Options (e.g. color choices) which was a nice surprise - on all of Mike's versions I always had to reset them every time. (We still may hit this e.g. anytime the program options file is updated and a new one needs pushing out.) - Not a biggie but a nice surprise.

My Deault_Natal settings are retained and, with spot checking, other Chart Options files seem all retained unmolested.

New Chart works as intended and produces the correct chart.

Solunars produces the correct lunar returns. All of these chart calculations pull up location / time zone as before. My retained locations are all there.

Lunar ingresses for Washington, DC look just as dismal as they do under the old program

Anything else you want me to test? - I think you got it!

[Mike V]

Anything else you want me to test? - I think you got it!

Not that I can think of, thank you for testing for me! I need to make a Win 11 VM to test some of this stuff myself. (There's stuff I have precariously configured in Win 10 and I don't feel like dealing with that right now.)

There's day-job work I need to do at the moment but I'll address your other questions later on today.

[Jim Eshelman]

Functioning on Win 11 and Win 10 shouldn't be different (there are sometimes surprises, though). The main thing I ran into is that default security is heightened another big level - such things as impossible to install any software without a valid security certificate without going through several small steps to make special allowances for program operation or folder privilege. (We always had to do that before in Win 10; Win 11 just makes it a little more insistent and hard to work around.)

Yes, go do stuff to get paid

[Mike V]

You're one of those Virgo Moons that stays up all night doing Mercury things, right?

Unfortunately... yes, very

You might want to report the download site as safe to Microsoft, otherwise native security features like Defender will mark it as a suspect item. I know what I'm doing and tried three times before I could get it to confirm the file as safe to finish downloading. I clicked to report the download site and package as safe, but it wants owner info and representations I couldn't provide. (This may be irrelevant once your full download system is ready.)

I should still do this until then. I'll add it to Trello. I suspect that Microsoft will consider Github to be safe once I actually do releases through there... MIcrosoft owns Github these days, I think

Mike, where is the executable stored?

When I run the installer, it lets me pick the installation folder; it defaults to `%USERPROFILE%\local\appData` or something to that effect, though I usually redirect it elsewhere. All of the files, including dlls and ephemeris files, go there. (I'm generally a fan of all of the dependencies being in the same place rather than in separate, fixed locations - it's easier to sandbox.)
Did it not give you the chance to pick an installation folder?

Belay that. Indexing caught up and, lo and behold, the app is on the desktop. (It appears to be the actual executable, not a shortcut.) On launching it, two things happen: One, I get an error message (I'll post it if it persists) and, two, I find that Windows Defender is blocking the installed program. I'll go fix that and come back. (On the earlier version, I'd allowed unverified code to run from the exact folder it needed, but perhaps this is a different location. Off to check.)

[Later: I see it is actually in %localappdata%\programs\Time Matters, including tmsa.exe. I guess that really is a shortcut on the desktop (somehow I missed that even when I went looking for it - the format in Win 11 is still unfamiliar for things like icon Properties).]

Yep it is an actual shortcut on the desktop. I need to figure out how Mike N got the installer to ask you if you wanted a shortcut.

First: Congratulations on pulling this together.

Thanks! It was a lot

You did say desktop, and I missed that completely. (That's the executable, right? Not a shortcut? And it eventually will go in Program Files or some such location?)

It should be a shortcut, not the actual executable. The executable has relative paths to its needed files, not absolute paths (with few exceptions, like chart and options folders).

I didn't get an option to select install location. (I don 't need one, but you said there would be one.)

Weird, I get a prompt to select location. Maybe it's a thing that is different on Win 11.

Student vs. Advanced will be back later? (I don 't know if anyone uses it, but it was an intentional step so we could layer in "starter" settings that weren't necessarily what one would se later.(

I have to 1. figure out how to do that, and 2. look through the posts here to see what the difference is. Stuff like that is unfortunately lost, since it wasn't in the source code. (It is now, though!)

The landing page has updated language and spacing which I think are consistent with Jim's most recent requests.

• It fits very well on a half-screen.
• I wonder if the copyright and credits might go under the buttons (among other things, raising the buttons on the screen and putting things necessary but less important to the user at the bottom.
• One button doesn't fit on half screen mode: "Chart of the Moment" gets horizontally scrunched. Down the road, maybe change to "Chart for Now" to trim six characters.
• Title still says "Time Matters Sidereal Astrology" (but see below).
• Program title gets cut off at the top by the title bar. Probably needs to come down a line.

Thanks for the detail; I'll add this to Trello. I agree with pushing copyright stuff towards the bottom.

"TMSA" is renamed everywhere (except some file paths) to "Time Matters."

Not on the landing screen. - BTW, that's fine since my original idea was to keep the old name under 0.5, then make a big deal of the rebrand when the fully QA'd 0.5 was released as 1.0 - but, sure, it can be changed earlier. - Relevant feedback at the moment is that the name isn't changed on the first screen.

All noted and agreed, thank you. I'll change the title to "Time Matters" just to be consistent.

It kept my Program Options (e.g. color choices) which was a nice surprise - on all of Mike's versions I always had to reset them every time. (We still may hit this e.g. anytime the program options file is updated and a new one needs pushing out.) - Not a biggie but a nice surprise.

I don't think I changed anything that intentionally changed that behavior. It's possible that my tweaks to path logic (I made everything OS-agnostic by replacing all of the `windows\specific\path` stuff with `os.path.join("windows", "specific", "path")`) incidentally fixed a bug.

My Deault_Natal settings are retained and, with spot checking, other Chart Options files seem all retained unmolested.

New Chart works as intended and produces the correct chart.

Solunars produces the correct lunar returns. All of these chart calculations pull up location / time zone as before. My retained locations are all there.

Lunar ingresses for Washington, DC look just as dismal as they do under the old program

Perfect, besides the installation actually working, those were my big concerns. Hard to feel extremely confident that a program will run fluidly when you can only kinda sorta trace the logic with your finger

Anything else you want me to test? - I think you got it!

Not at this stage! I think so too. Solid initial success.

[Mike V]

What I want to iron out before proceeding with actual features are the following:

• Prompt for shortcut creation.
• Prompt for install location.
• Get Microsoft comfortable with mega.nz as a download site (for now).
• Get a working icon for the program window as well as the shortcut. (I don't have access to the existing TMSA icon so I just picked something star-themed online that was royalty-free.)
• Implement your recommended landing page tweaks.

It's a relatively short list!

[Jim Eshelman]

MIcrosoft owns Github these days, I think

They do.

Did it not give you the chance to pick an installation folder?

Unless it went by so fast and I clicked Next unthinkingly, no. (I'll install it on the home Win 10 computer tonight and tell you if it's otherwise.)

I need to figure out how Mike N got the installer to ask you if you wanted a shortcut.

It must be standard most software asks. (I always say no, but it being on the desktop was the only way I ended up finding it so it was good.) Of greater concern is that it doesn't announce itself as newly installed on Start Menu (even though I have that option on). I would have thought Windows would have done that automatically since it appeared in Settings > Apps as an installed program.

I have to 1. figure out how to do that, and 2. look through the posts here to see what the difference is. Stuff like that is unfortunately lost, since it wasn't in the source code.

Student_Natal should have some slight changes to fully match where the Student recommendations (default for my classes, default for Foundations part of book) are going. With those changes, it should be: No Eris, Sedna, Vertex, or Node. Background at cadent. Angle orbs 3/7/10 and 1/2/[blank]. Ecliptic aspects on five major aspects 3/6/9. Mundane aspects 3° for Class 1 (nothing else). "All aspects." Midpoints off.

[Jim Eshelman]

Get a working icon for the program window as well as the shortcut. (I don't have access to the existing TMSA icon so I just picked something star-themed online that was royalty-free.)

I don't really care. Want to use the Aldebaran Sidereal Academy logo? Here is the black and white one. I think I have a color one her somewhere (not obvious at the moment; it was bronze colored, then I flattened it to B&W for book printing purposes).

[removed]

[Jim Eshelman]

On Windows 10 at home it asked me location. (I used to be cute about this and think I could figure out best how to splay it across different drives, but for years I've made a point of putting it wherever the default is.) Installation in progress.

[Jim Eshelman]

Install successful on Win 10. Everything retained, basics all work.

Shortcut successfully placed on desktop.

However, it still doesn't appear automatically on Start menu, either in the program list or at the top where new installs appear.

[Mike V]

Get a working icon for the program window as well as the shortcut...

I don't really care. Want to use the Aldebaran Sidereal Academy logo? Here is the black and white one...

Sure, that works! I'll gladly take the colorized version too if you find it. I'll convert this to a .ico file and try it out.

Install successful on Win 10. Everything retained, basics all work.

Shortcut successfully placed on desktop.

However, it still doesn't appear automatically on Start menu, either in the program list or at the top where new installs appear.

I have an inkling that I know how to approach getting it in the Start menu program list... I'll take a crack at that next time I can work on it.

[Jim Eshelman]

I've replaced the B&W logo above with the colored one; but, as long as I was doing this, I thought I'd give Time Matters a shot at its own distinctive icon. Here are four variations on a theme: My favorite for a program icon is the first one.

I like the second one better as a matter of art - sitting on the oceans - but think sitting atop the globe is a better icon. I also like the last one a LOT as artwork and what it implies with energy flows, but think it would make a terrible icon given size, centering, and color considerations. They can, of course, all be cropped as required.

TMSA3 tiny.png

tMSA3.jpg

TMSA1 tiny.jpg

tMSA1.jpg

TMSA4 tiny.jpg

TMSA4.jpg

TMSA2 tiny.jpg

tMSA2.jpg

[Veronica]

I see certain things in each that I really like, like the sand in tMSA1 looks especially lovely to me......and certain things in each that I dont, like how the earth looks slightly squashed under the crowning time piece. Each one seems to speak to a different aspect in me. But I do especially like tMSA1 with the sand that looks like it's really moving. FWIW

[Jim Eshelman]

Of course this will be less than half an inch high, so most subtleties will be never seen by anyone. I gave the tiny copy as an approximate example of how it would look as an icon on the windows Taskbar. (I also like the swirly sand in the second one - which will be lost when this is shrunken to icon size - plus the proportions of how the hourglass fills the square.)

Of course, pinned to a Windows 10 Start menu, especially in Large format, much more would be available. That's all gone away in Win 10 and nobody will ever see program icons larger than about half an inch. I keep TMSA pinned permanently to the taskbar, so that's all I ever end up seeing - a rectangle sized at roughly 1/3 of an inch high.

[Mike V]

I finally got the icon working (I used TMSA3, I think it looks the best when really small) and some other little tidbits. I have a number of miscellaneous documentation- and distribution-related things to sort out but we're rolling along. I'm gonna see if I can realistically host the zipped installer on Github with this release and stop using mega.nz direct download links. (I've run into file size issues with that before, but lots of other software is distributed via building, zipping, and just including the compressed file in source control.)

[Mike V]

Student_Natal should have some slight changes to fully match where the Student recommendations (default for my classes, default for Foundations part of book) are going. With those changes, it should be: No Eris, Sedna, Vertex, or Node. Background at cadent. Angle orbs 3/7/10 and 1/2/[blank]. Ecliptic aspects on five major aspects 3/6/9. Mundane aspects 3° for Class 1 (nothing else). "All aspects." Midpoints off.

I have an idea. What if we use these as the default installation settings, if there isn't already a settings file?

i.e. whenever you install Time Matters for the very first time, you just get the student settings. Any further update will keep the settings you have. Maybe we can add a button to revert to "default settings" (which are these) if you want.

What do you think?

[Jim Eshelman]

Well... I'd like most people to get what are set in the Default files that are also distributed with it. Only a small percentage will be enrolled in a class or following along the book, I suspect. (I could be too pessimistic about that.) And for those in that category, if they change their settings, it's good to know they can get back to them.

I don't know that it's ever been a popular (or even used?) feature, but it still seems a great idea (more so in the future and for that matter now that HOSNI is out and trickling into circulation).

Is the issue that you don't want to have the Students vs. Non-students (whatever) it says at the install? We can probably find a way not to do that. I have a couple of bad ideas, but I bet we can find a good one. The most innocuous is the Student file can be there and it's up to a teacher to recommend they use it. (I could rewrite that part of the book to tell them differently how to do it.)

I'd like not to stick most experienced users with Student orb recommendations.

[Mike V]

Ah, I see what you're saying.

Is the issue that you don't want to have the Students vs. Non-students (whatever) it says at the install?

Partially. Since I don't yet know how to pull that off, I'm taking the opportunity to try to figure out the ideal workflow for this feature. If it ends up being an installation-time selection, I'll learn it.

But if not...

Maybe we could have a way to toggle this within the program itself. That way, someone can maybe join Solunars, download the software and screw around, then end up with HOSNI and say, "you know what? I'd like to start fresh and learn from the beginning." Or they install it and just see "ooh, Student Settings, that sounds like a good idea!" And they can always change their mind (and then change it back) whenever they feel like it.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but only giving them 1 chance to decide seems unnecessarily forcing. (I don't think non-techy people will necessarily think to uninstall and reinstall it.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Suggestion: I think there is room along the bottom of the front screen button row for a small gap and then two wide buttons (two buttons as wide as the three columns that re already there). One says "Student Defaults" and one says "Professional Defaults". ('Advanced' is a bad idea since everyone thinks they're advanced <g>.)

the only thing this does is toggle a flag where by either Default_Natal (to be renamed Natal_Default) or Student_Natal (to be renamed Natal_Student) is set to come up automatically. Any user, or course, can change any chart options at any time, so it's just a default change which, yes, I think can be done in-program in an obvious front screen "in your face sorta" way.

BTW, there isn't just one chance to decide. Program Options page has an option to switch that.

[Mike V]

Ah okay, noted, thank you. I think I agree!

[Jim Eshelman]

Or something like that.

[Mike V]

https://mega.nz/file/1P9iGZaa#L_fAQYDI- ... ItgjvvDUQQ

New patch version 0.4.11 that rearranges stuff on the landing page, shouldn't create a shortcut by default (it should just appear as a new app under the start menu... i think?), and small tweaks like that. Can you let me know what you think of the arrangement on the landing page, and if it appears where you expect in the Start menu?

[Jim Eshelman]

Great - thanks. I've backup my TMSA folder an am now uninstalling, will let you know the outcome.

In noticed at home (Win 10) that uninstalling 0.4.10 took a surprisingly long time, at least 10 minutes (so I didn't have time to test the install before leaving). The laptop here in the office (Win 11) is going much faster. It's not a concern either way, just something of note.

Another strange thing on the home computer, I noticed for the first time (had never looked before) that as I installed each of Mike's o.4.x versions, though it looked (from a user perspective) that each one overwrote the other - one Start Menu entry, etc. - nonetheless all versions were kept installed. I have something like 12 TMSA 0.4.x versions. When the time comes to leap over to TM solidly, I can uninstall all of those, it's just surprising they were all kept.

It seemed a full uninstall of TM 0.4.10a was warranted for the exact things you wanted tested.

[Jim Eshelman]

Mike, I'm getting an issue with the extraction process. The zip file saves to the Downloads folder and appears fully downloaded (e.g., its name changes to the correct finished name). By either clicking into it with Windows' native compressed file capabilities, or right-click and Extract All etc., I get another zip file that I can't open. One approach gives an obscure error message, the other approach says this inner zip file is empty and can't be extracted.

I deleted and then downloaded again. Same result.

[Jim Eshelman]

Just on a lark, I also downloaded it to my work laptop (Win 10 fwiw). I won't install it here, but want to see how the download process goes. The only difference would be that on my personal computers I'm using entirely native capabilities, and the work laptop has WinZip. The downloaded zip file has an identically named zio file inside it. Attempted to open it, WinZip says it does not appear to be a valid archive.

I think the file is damaged.

[Jim Eshelman]

Back home. Again confirmed same results on home computer.

[Mike V]

Ugh, sorry. I didn't realize I screwed up zipping the installer.

It should be fixed in this download link:

https://mega.nz/file/cXMGDQab#NL74dEauN ... Pdodt4uPyE

This installer will also create a desktop shortcut. I still have to figure out the arguments that the setup file needs in order to put a Start menu shortcut. That seems like something I need to do manually; we won't get it for free.

[Jim Eshelman]

0.4.11 successfully installed on Win 11 personal laptop at work. I think everything is exactly as expected:

• Shortcut (with a delightful new icon <s>) on desktop.
• No notification of new program on Start menu (or listing in Start Menu "All Apps" list).
• Launches much faster than old program. Taskbar shortcut shows indiscernible but attractive icon.
• Landing page fits half screen well. Strangest effect on landing page is that the top four lines are underlined and that zone of the screen seems to be a hotlink to the AGPL web page. I think that's a mistake.
• It still seems to me that a lot of "single spaced" text is showing as double-spaced. I think we only need single spaced within the three lines following the program title, between the "Dedicated" line and the link after it (same with the next pair. After the GNU AGPL notice at the bottom is triple-space and only needs single. (These are all minor against the important work of revising behavior, though I think cosmetically they will matter.)
• Chart for Now" fits with almost no cut-off (just a bare shaving of the "w," so it's a definite improvement. This will vary with individual screes, of course. The next ones to think about how to shorten are "Predictive Options" and "Program Options" - maybe change "Options" of bot of them to "Ops" without changing "Chart Options"? (Actually, I just realized using "Ops is kinda hot in a geeky way.)
• Old stuff is entirely preserved. Colors and program options come up as previously set, charts are accessed.
• Basic functions all work: chart retrieval, natal calculation, return calculation, ingress calculation.

Are you starting to tighten the code a little? The whole thing seems a little faster, a little smoother, especially in initial launching. Installation dragged just a little at the start, but overall was much faster than the last time I installed it at home (I haven't installed this at home yet).

Looks good!

[Jim Eshelman]

On the computer I'm on at the moment:

TMSA 0.4.9.2 launches in 31 seconds.
TM 0.4.11 launches in less than 2 seconds.

[Jim Eshelman]

The startup speed of this new version is amazing! I should add that with this kind of startup speed I don't think we need the "re-initialize" button I asked for. It's less than 5 seconds to simply close the program and relaunch it. (I thought at first that you might have dropped the initialization cleanup steps, like purging the Temporary folder, but no - I create a new Temporary chart, confirm it's in the folder, close and reopen TM, and it's gone.

[Mike V]

0.4.11 successfully installed on Win 11 personal laptop at work. I think everything is exactly as expected

Woo!

Launches much faster than old program. Taskbar shortcut shows indiscernible but attractive icon.
...
Installation dragged just a little at the start, but overall was much faster than the last time I installed it at home (I haven't installed this at home yet).

The installation being a bit different, whether faster or slower, doesn't surprise me; I'm basically doing it from scratch and just emulating some things I imagine Mike N probably did based on my experience installing 0.4.9.x. I don't really know what setup he had.

TMSA 0.4.9.2 launches in 31 seconds.
TM 0.4.11 launches in less than 2 seconds.
...
The startup speed of this new version is amazing!

That's awesome, but I'm not actually sure why! My theory is that doing the packaging from scratch gave me a clean slate, whereas I know Mike N was fighting with PyInstaller and environmental issues... probably something got tangled on itself that we didn't realize was an environmental pipe-clogging issue.

Are you starting to tighten the code a little? The whole thing seems a little faster, a little smoother, especially in initial launching.
...
(I thought at first that you might have dropped the initialization cleanup steps, like purging the Temporary folder, but no - I create a new Temporary chart, confirm it's in the folder, close and reopen TM, and it's gone.

Nope, no real behavioral changes yet; just some tinkering under the hood. (Python library imports, variable usage, OS path resolution, stuff like that.)

Landing page fits half screen well. Strangest effect on landing page is that the top four lines are underlined and that zone of the screen seems to be a hotlink to the AGPL web page. I think that's a mistake.

Thanks for pointing that out - I did a bunch of iterations and didn't realize the underlining had spread. I know exactly why, though. (I changed what lines were parts of what text blocks.)

It still seems to me that a lot of "single spaced" text is showing as double-spaced. I think we only need single spaced within the three lines following the program title, between the "Dedicated" line and the link after it (same with the next pair. After the GNU AGPL notice at the bottom is triple-space and only needs single. (These are all minor against the important work of revising behavior, though I think cosmetically they will matter.)

Absolutely, and good callout on single vs double spacing. I have a suspicion about the cause but I'll have to push some buttons and see what happens.

Chart for Now" fits with almost no cut-off (just a bare shaving of the "w," so it's a definite improvement. This will vary with individual screes, of course. The next ones to think about how to shorten are "Predictive Options" and "Program Options" - maybe change "Options" of bot of them to "Ops" without changing "Chart Options"? (Actually, I just realized using "Ops is kinda hot in a geeky way.)

I'm a big fan of "ops" as a shorthand, so I'm into it. I can also make the font very slightly smaller on buttons where it almost fits. What size monitor are you usually using TM on?

Old stuff is entirely preserved. Colors and program options come up as previously set, charts are accessed.
Basic functions all work: chart retrieval, natal calculation, return calculation, ingress calculation.

Awesome, thank you for testing this with me. I'll make those cosmetic changes and when we're all settled on them, we can move onto some more interesting enhancements

[Jim Eshelman]

Monitor size changes. The one I was viewing this morning is a 19" laptop. I'm gone from work and can't get res until Monday (WFH tomorrow).

[Mike V]

Not a big deal at all, I'm just curious. I'd guess the absolute smallest you'd ever have it is half-screen on the laptop, right?

My main monitor is a 32" ultrawide and I have a 27" next to it, though I typically used TM half-screen regardless.

[Jim Eshelman]

Our Surface Laptop Go is a CD 12.4" screen and it usually has to be open full screen to be usable. The all in one desktop at home is probably bigger than the laptop but I can check it when I get home. I keep dual 24" at work (for the docked work laptop, of course) because the dual 27"s are just two damn many pixels and too much real estate.

[Jim Eshelman]

At home now. It finished installing unattended while I was at work (I forgot that I'd started it). After an initial startup (perhaps 10+ seconds), it now launches in 2-2 seconds, which is quite impressive.

The home desktop is an all-in-one with monitor set on 1920 x 1080. To my surprise, the buttons don't scale nearly as well. Here's what they look like at half screen on 1920 x 1080. (At full screen, they're spacious.)

[illustration removed]

[Mike V]

Thanks for the screenshot. Hmm, I'll have to ponder this. Probably we should consider rearranging the buttons themselves depending on screen size, and that way it'll all fit no matter what the setup is. If this were regular HTML and CSS, I could do it in a heartbeat, but rendering a GUI with Python is a completely different thing; I'll have to investigate how to do this sort of thing.

[Jim Eshelman]

By chance can the buttons be treated as objects resembling words and allowed to wrap? It's one crazy approach.

A smaller font size would help some. If words can wrap within a button, that might solve the whole thing.

[Mike V]

I'll investigate that too!

[Jim Eshelman]

I suspect (or at least hope) that you are finding this an opportunity to learn things you might not get to do usually.

I'm not a programmer, though today I finished writing a tool to allow a limited pool of IT figures in our fitm to open an elevated system command prompt on any firm computer to appropriately bypass most of our security systems. It opens the prompt in 2 seconds instead of the 18-step three minute process everyone has had to use. That reduces stress and makes day to day work life better. It works perfectly. Haven't had that kind of fun in years.

[Jim Eshelman]

At some point, I also want to work on one piece of the landing page language. the current basic description says:

A freeware program for calculating geometrically accurate astrological charts in the sidereal zodiac, as rediscovered by Cyril Fagan and Donald Bradley.

The phrase "geometrically accurate" was important to Mike. By this he meant that the planet placements in the houses and in relation to the angles in prime vertical longitude was spatially correct. This is (thus far) unique to TM and one of his (and my) big "wish list" items that other programs would steal.

However, as written - and without the explanation, I think most readers will think "geometrically accurate" is a statement he's making about the Sidereal zodiac, which is no more "geometrically accurate" than the Tropical zodiac. (They have the same geometry - the same spherical coordinate system shape and math.) Such a misunderstanding (someone thinking it's an attempt to describe the zodiac) is misleading and a little strange.

In a sense, this is like a feeling I had the first time I remember reading a Cyril Fagan article sometime in 1970. I had no idea who he was or what he was about, and Fagan's articles always picked up in the middle assuming you'd been reading him since the mid-'50s and would catch up on the soap opera on your own eventually. When I saw the words "sidereal zodiac" I thought he was just using an adjective with imagery, like saying "the starry heavens." I had no illusion that the zodiac as I'd known it was anchored to stars, but of course an astrologer could call it "sidereal," stellar, celestial, heavenly. - Only later did I figure out he had a technical meaning.

Getting back to Mike's wording: I don't need to rush this or do anything hasty, but I'd like to accomplish the two following goals with this three lines of text in simple language (to be determined):

1. Preserve the words "geometrically accurate" as words Mike used often and repeatedly and basic to TMSA branding and uniqueness
2. Structure the language to dissociate (dis-confuse) them from the zodiac
3. Connect them to the PVL ideas they were meant to convey all along

I'll work on this a bit. Ideas are welcome. My current thought is to move "geometrically accurate" late in the sentence, after mention of the zodiac. Not a priority matter, but I hadn't written it anywhere.

[Jim Eshelman]

One approach (yeah, I couldn't stop fiddling with it once I got my initial stuff at the office done) might be not hang so closely to the three-line limit (just stretch it a little). With the compression of the current double-spacing there will be room for more lines in an opening declaration (which should still only take someone a few seconds to read - otherwise, they won't). Switching the form to imperative ("Do this!"), and understanding that the following is all centered, perhaps this:

Calculate astrology charts in the Sidereal zodiac
restored by Cyril Fagan & Donald Bradley
-- An Ancient Recovery ~ A Modern Discovery --
with geometrically accurate planet positions
with respect to angles and houses

Perhaps with a little extra space (half a line if possible) above and below the third line.

PS - I don't know how much flexibility Python has in display. Can the program title be made bold and larger (even double-height, whatever the esthetics support)?

[Jim Eshelman]

Another question for discussion regarding the front screen:

As the esthetics sharpen a little, do we want the long link to a specific page on Solunars.com? I see that link to viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2259 as serving two purposes:

1. The purpose it declares: more information about Sidereal Astrology (the Landmarks)
2. It gets people onto the site, perhaps for the first time

Those are both good things. I wonder, though, if the program wouldn't be served better by having its own page of the Landmarks. Click to that. Then right under it maybe a simpler

Join the discussion on Solunars.com.

[Mike V]

PS - I don't know how much flexibility Python has in display. Can the program title be made bold and larger (even double-height, whatever the esthetics support)?

Sure it can!

I'm pondering the rest of your thoughts. I always like cleaning up and tightening language.

Another question for discussion regarding the front screen:

As the esthetics sharpen a little, do we want the long link to a specific page on Solunars.com? I see that link to viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2259 as serving two purposes:

1. The purpose it declares: more information about Sidereal Astrology (the Landmarks)
2. It gets people onto the site, perhaps for the first time

Those are both good things. I wonder, though, if the program wouldn't be served better by having its own page of the Landmarks. Click to that. Then right under it maybe a simpler

Join the discussion on Solunars.com.

I also suspect I can just make a hyperlink that says whatever we want - without displaying the full URL. Does that change the calculus at all?

[Mike V]

I suspect (or at least hope) that you are finding this an opportunity to learn things you might not get to do usually.

Definitely. At the very top of that list of "things I don't get to do usually" is just Python itself. I worked very heavily in Python during my self-teaching period, and then my first 2 years as a professional... but I haven't had much opportunity to work in it since then, beyond a little experiment here or there. It's a pleasant language to work in and I'm happy to refresh myself on it.

I'm not a programmer, though today I finished writing a tool to allow a limited pool of IT figures in our fitm to open an elevated system command prompt on any firm computer to appropriately bypass most of our security systems. It opens the prompt in 2 seconds instead of the 18-step three minute process everyone has had to use. That reduces stress and makes day to day work life better. It works perfectly. Haven't had that kind of fun in years.

My dad used to be a developer a few decades ago, and he gradually meandered into IT stuff. I think his current title is something very close to Subject Matter Expert, but he does a lot of packaging/rollout of updates, control over user stuff, and he's the highest escalation for support tickets that no one else can figure out. The work he relishes the most is always when he gets to write scripts that take big, annoying, manual problems and turn them into a few seconds of automation. Cracking those puzzles and programming the solutions are things he loves too.