Sonny & Cher

[Jim Eshelman]

Sonny Bono. February 16, 1935, 9:21 PM EST, Detroit, MI (AA).
Cher. May 20, 1946, 7:25 AM, El Centro, CA (AA).

This is a fantastic example of an obviously important, life-changing (and even world-changing) relationship that was nonetheless a terrible relationship in most ways.

Look at it yourself - using all the methods we normally prioritize. It's hard not to talk about it. Their luminary signs have no meaningful connections. He obviously loved her adoringly (his Venus near her MC) AND his Moon is exactly on her Mars-Pluto (with the best and worst those bring out). Their Suns were square, which was also part of her Sun's square to his Sun-Mercury-Saturn. His Mars squared her Saturn. Her Neptune conjoined his Ascendant. Each of them was a strong Mars-Pluto personality, with their respective Mars-Pluto combinations importantly touching the other's chart.

Don't take the first impression of all of these. Go after the details of each aspect. See how the pieces all fit together. It's a great learning example!

[SteveS]

Each of them was a strong Mars-Pluto personality, with their respective Mars-Pluto combinations importantly touching the other's chart.

Enough said for the eventual nasty break-up!

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thanks for this example Jim.
I always tend to overrate a Venus-angle contact.
Indeed, there are many difficulties in their synastry such as the Moon-Mars-Pluto and Neptune-angle plus Mars-Saturn-Pluto interchanges. And her Sun's square to his Sun-Mercury-Saturn.

[Jim Eshelman]

I don't think there is a need to think Venus-Angle overrated. I think he honestly adored her.

That doesn't stop one or both from also being asses - And the aspect doesn't necessarily mean peacefulness. I think in synastry it just mean that Venus unconditionally adores the angle. (At least, that's the only clear thing I've been able to discern.)

[FlorencedeZ.]

I think in synastry it just mean that Venus unconditionally adores the angle. (At least, that's the only clear thing I've been able to discern.)

Yes, this has been my experience as well, I know this first hand. It really is unconditional.

Slightly off topic perhaps. I have always wondered in what way does a Moon-Venus interchange differ from Venus on an angle in synastry?

[Jim Eshelman]

Slightly off topic perhaps. I have always wondered in what way does a Moon-Venus interchange differ from Venus on an angle in synastry?

I learned early - directly from Fagan's writings - that Sun-Venus = friends, Moon-Venus = lovers. the reality isn't quite that simplistic, but it give a starting point that takes you down the right road.

The best insight I've had on the distinctive characteristic of Moon-Venus is that each yields to the other's touch.

For a contrast, here is what I've written about Venus to Angle:

Venus adores Angle. Love, friendship, and trust are immediate, moving, and deep (especially with Venus on the horizon). They easily share pleasure, fun, and good feelings. Venus will do anything for Angle. Even friendships last long. Arguably the most powerful and important aspect of connection, this is also the most common interchange for marriage.

That last phrase is from Jung's small study: He found it the most common co-aspect between charts of married couples he checked. The list of significant married couples and important pairs of friends with this aspect is impressive. Keywords: adoration, love, friendship, trust, pleasure.

In contrast, for Moon-Venus I've written:

Deep mutual attraction, affection, and tenderness flow freely. Classically the aspect of lovers and heart-warming romance, Moon-Venus also marks longstanding friendship. Its most evident feature is how comfortable, at ease, and "at home" each feels around the other. Simple fun and shared pleasure come easily. Sexually, each surrenders to the other's touch, caress, and embrace. Any separation likely will be a gentle fade-away, not a split.

Keywords: love instinct, attraction, affection, tenderness, sexual surrender.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I learned early - directly from Fagan's writings - that Sun-Venus = friends, Moon-Venus = lovers. the reality isn't quite that simplistic, but it give a starting point that takes you down the right road.

Fwiw, when my Solar Arc Moon 90 my r Venus was the first time in my life I fell in love with a woman, Gayle my wife of 53 years.
And you’re quoted words Jim about Sun-Venus rings true in our Composite charts with:
Sun 17,Vir59; Ve 17Vir16; Jup 16,Sag37 (Gayle for sure is my best “friend” in life).

[Veronica]

It is such a beautiful thought for me to know that each of us has our planets placed just so,
And our angles angling in such a way that we have aspects like moon and Venus or Venus on an angle just waiting to be discovered out in the vast cosmos!

[SteveS]

Exactly V! I have had a-lot of profound spiritual experiences in my life that has touched my soul & heart which is very difficult for me to explain to others because they are not rational living in a material world. When I took my first and only macro dose of psilocybin mushroom and went out into a quite wooded area by myself for the experience, I saw the life energy in all the trees, it was like they were offering me their love, it is difficult for me to convey in words. About an hour into this altered mind/soul experience, which the only words I know to explain this experience was my mind/soul entered the spirit world, a beautiful American Indian Woman in the largest tree in front of me appeared and started talking to me telepathically. She told me I would soon be meeting a woman who would change my life with love and put me on new paths involving new worlds. Two weeks later I met Gayle my wife for 53 years.

Gayle got me connected with Astrology and she never was interested in Astrology. I look back on my life and realize I never would have discovered Astrology if it had not been for Gayle. When I started learning Astrology, I started searching for components of Astrology which would explain to me important timings in my life, and then I soon discovered Solar Arcs. Then I start learning astrological things from Jim like his words above with Moon-Venus, and then I discover my Solar Arc Moon was partile 90 my Natal Venus when I fell in love with Gayle. These discoveries of the spirit world and timings of Astrology wash my being with awe---they are special moments of TIME for me in a way which are wonderful in a mysterous feeling to ponder....