In various online communities involved in discussing synastry and - more broadly - the astrology of relationships, one repeatedly encounters the view that Saturn's strong involvement is essential to the stability and endurance of a relationship.
But is this true? And, if so, in what ways (and under what conditions) is it true? We surely can admit that - at least occasionally - there is some truth in this, because Saturn corresponds to what psychologists call our material needs, such as the needs to acquire, construct, shape, conserve, preserve, and retain. Saturn, in short, wants to own things and to invest in "sure things" that come with a good warranty!
I take issue with this astrological view even beyond the first and obvious concern that it equates a relationship with ownership. The frequent assertion about Saturn does usually come from younger people, who strike me as looking for a mate the way they shop for a blender: Do your research, crowdsource for opinions, find the best brand, and do everything possible to pick one that will always perform as expected, meet your practical needs, isn't too hard to clean up when it gets messy, and you can keep it around for years, perhaps never having to shop for another one. A good investment!
It seems to me that there is already a lot of Saturn in this approach.
But people aren't blenders. Major relationships are changing landscapes. Two people that are always changing a little (and often a lot), living together in a changing landscape of shifting conditions. You can't lock them down and try to keep them from changing. (Change happens anyway.)
Yes, but isn't it good to have some commitment to stick in there together even when it gets rough? Of course. The traditional phrase "for better and for worse" recognizes that conditions shift, that we have some bad times. Including this phrase in one's vows amounts to saying, "No matter what happens, I'm not going anywhere!" Saturn often gives persistence, a willingness to work hard, and endurance in the midst of hardship.
Of course, it also gives the hardship. Saturn equips us to survive better in difficult, survival-challenging circumstances. In practice, this means that Saturn leaves us most comfortable when we find ourselves in difficult, survival-challenging conditions. One doesn't necessarily want to make this a basic characteristic of one's long-term life together, right? (I can imagine it having been a high priority in the settling of the old American West with couples routinely bonding over the issue of whether they could survive better together in a life of guaranteed hardship. Saturn is great for that!)
Today, this isn't what most people want in a relationship.
This morning, I was asked for the umpteenth time whether Saturn was needed to stabilize a relationship that kept changing, I replied, "Yes, absolutely - provided stabilize means strip all the joy out of it." I overstated (a little) for effect, though basically I do think this is true: Strong Saturn involvement may help two people live "ever after" together, but usually not "happily ever after."
Enough general musing! Let's add some facts to this, specifically in terms of confirmed observations of how Saturn interacts with the other planets in synastry interchanges.
Does Saturn secure and stabilize a relationship?
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Jim Eshelman
- Are You Sirius?
- Posts: 19124
- Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
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Jim Eshelman
- Are You Sirius?
- Posts: 19124
- Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Re: Does Saturn secure and stabilize a relationship?
Something common to many Saturn inter changes (I'll mention it once and then not repeat it) is that thet are better for business than pleasure - for work purposes, not personal (especially emotional) purposes. If the chart comparison is for co-workers, or for romantic partners that also have a persistent work focus in their relationship. The same would be true for other major Saturn conditions, such as knowing in advance that enduring severe hardship would be necessary.
(Perhaps this also applies to relationships formed at a very advanced age - nursing home couplings and the like - though I don't have enough examples to say this for sure.)
Another preliminary point: Wider Saturn interchanges are in a different category (as are wider aspects in general). Wider orbs - conjunctions and oppositions in the 4°-7° range, squares in the 3°-5° range - do not usually define the fundamental nature of a relationship. They are supplemental. If close (Class 1) aspects show a strong, positive, pleasurable connection then wider Saturn interchanges can indeed act like a bit of duct tape. However, if they are closer than 3°-4°, they are more likely to show in the purer forms described below.
Aspect discussions below presume close aspects - the ones we normally count on to tell the primary story of the relationship.
MOON-SATURN is not conducive to prolonged domestic happiness. Saturn has most of the power and eventually brings the "no" that limits the relationship: Despite possible warmth and attraction, Saturn is removed, indifferent, and may be unavailable in some important way. Enduring, loyal connection is possible (based on other aspects that show connection and warmth) but is not ensured. Negative expressions include wounded pride, threatened security, distrust, sadness, and loss.
SUN-SATURN Longevity of the relationship is not at all ensured: They must find commitment from other dynamics or conditions. This aspect is common for partners who (if there is commitment) work hard and weather hardship together as it comes. Mutual need binds them. However, both may struggle with feelings of discouragement, disappointment, and feeling under-appreciated. Sun eventually feels small (reduced) in Saturn's presence. In a dance of darkness and light, Saturn may drive Sun (controlling, structuring, demanding). Saturn supports and uplifts Sun but only on Saturn's terms, often seeing Sun as a resource to shape for Saturn's benefit.
MERCURY-SATURN does not affect the issue of longevity directly, though it indirectly discourages it simply because communication is poor (especially emotional communication). Specifically, Saturn tends not to really listen to Mercury, or hears Mercury's thoughts only in the worst light, often shutting them out ("I don't want to hear any more of that!") and showing little respect. This aspect can be quite good for some types of relationships, but not intimate ones.
VENUS-SATURN is one of the interchanges most often cited as giving durability to a relationship. Sometimes it brings commitment and perseverance, though usually only when the orb is wide. Generally, it means the opposite. A clear exception is in situations where Venus sacrifices personal happiness from devotion, duty, or service caretaking Saturn. In most cases, though, the message is simpler and unhappy: Saturn limits Venus' happiness or pleasure. Intimate relationships are stifled. It may signify unrequited or lost love or friendship that leaves a long, sad shadow on one or both lives. Venus especially may feel alone, excluded, or neglected.
MARS-SATURN A long article could be written about this aspect alone. The bottom line is usually that, while it can create longevity and endurance of a relationship, it is rarely for a healthy relationship. (It may last, but perhaps it shouldn't last.) It is an aspect of struggle and pain; therefore, it can show a willingness to struggle and endure pain, prejudice, attack, conflict, burden, or hardship. (It's the only interchange for which damage is rarely too strong a word.) The relationship is prone to incompletions, withheld communication, and even shame that one must live with or confront. When there is a single survivor, they often feel a posthumous duty or debt.
SATURN -ANGLE rarely marks a long-term emotional relationship. Eventual wandering apart is common. Though work of some sort is favored (the personal connection likely exists primarily to serve a particular shared task or other practical purpose), even intimate relationships tend to last only as long as they remain serviceable. Even when both people value the relationship, it usually falls short of what it might have been.
(Perhaps this also applies to relationships formed at a very advanced age - nursing home couplings and the like - though I don't have enough examples to say this for sure.)
Another preliminary point: Wider Saturn interchanges are in a different category (as are wider aspects in general). Wider orbs - conjunctions and oppositions in the 4°-7° range, squares in the 3°-5° range - do not usually define the fundamental nature of a relationship. They are supplemental. If close (Class 1) aspects show a strong, positive, pleasurable connection then wider Saturn interchanges can indeed act like a bit of duct tape. However, if they are closer than 3°-4°, they are more likely to show in the purer forms described below.
Aspect discussions below presume close aspects - the ones we normally count on to tell the primary story of the relationship.
MOON-SATURN is not conducive to prolonged domestic happiness. Saturn has most of the power and eventually brings the "no" that limits the relationship: Despite possible warmth and attraction, Saturn is removed, indifferent, and may be unavailable in some important way. Enduring, loyal connection is possible (based on other aspects that show connection and warmth) but is not ensured. Negative expressions include wounded pride, threatened security, distrust, sadness, and loss.
SUN-SATURN Longevity of the relationship is not at all ensured: They must find commitment from other dynamics or conditions. This aspect is common for partners who (if there is commitment) work hard and weather hardship together as it comes. Mutual need binds them. However, both may struggle with feelings of discouragement, disappointment, and feeling under-appreciated. Sun eventually feels small (reduced) in Saturn's presence. In a dance of darkness and light, Saturn may drive Sun (controlling, structuring, demanding). Saturn supports and uplifts Sun but only on Saturn's terms, often seeing Sun as a resource to shape for Saturn's benefit.
MERCURY-SATURN does not affect the issue of longevity directly, though it indirectly discourages it simply because communication is poor (especially emotional communication). Specifically, Saturn tends not to really listen to Mercury, or hears Mercury's thoughts only in the worst light, often shutting them out ("I don't want to hear any more of that!") and showing little respect. This aspect can be quite good for some types of relationships, but not intimate ones.
VENUS-SATURN is one of the interchanges most often cited as giving durability to a relationship. Sometimes it brings commitment and perseverance, though usually only when the orb is wide. Generally, it means the opposite. A clear exception is in situations where Venus sacrifices personal happiness from devotion, duty, or service caretaking Saturn. In most cases, though, the message is simpler and unhappy: Saturn limits Venus' happiness or pleasure. Intimate relationships are stifled. It may signify unrequited or lost love or friendship that leaves a long, sad shadow on one or both lives. Venus especially may feel alone, excluded, or neglected.
MARS-SATURN A long article could be written about this aspect alone. The bottom line is usually that, while it can create longevity and endurance of a relationship, it is rarely for a healthy relationship. (It may last, but perhaps it shouldn't last.) It is an aspect of struggle and pain; therefore, it can show a willingness to struggle and endure pain, prejudice, attack, conflict, burden, or hardship. (It's the only interchange for which damage is rarely too strong a word.) The relationship is prone to incompletions, withheld communication, and even shame that one must live with or confront. When there is a single survivor, they often feel a posthumous duty or debt.
SATURN -ANGLE rarely marks a long-term emotional relationship. Eventual wandering apart is common. Though work of some sort is favored (the personal connection likely exists primarily to serve a particular shared task or other practical purpose), even intimate relationships tend to last only as long as they remain serviceable. Even when both people value the relationship, it usually falls short of what it might have been.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
www.jeshelman.com
Re: Does Saturn secure and stabilize a relationship?
My wife Gayle's Saturn partile cnj my Sun and we have been married for 53 years---survived a lot of economic hardships together but finally succeeded together in business and made it across the finish line for retirement.
Re: Does Saturn secure and stabilize a relationship?
Jim wrote
“In various online communities involved in discussing synastry and - more broadly - the astrology of relationships, one repeatedly encounters the view that Saturn's strong involvement is essential to the stability and endurance of a relationship.”
It would be so interesting to look at the chart of the person making that sort of of view and see how Saturn is configured in their chart that would prompt them to share their thought on such a unique topic.
“In various online communities involved in discussing synastry and - more broadly - the astrology of relationships, one repeatedly encounters the view that Saturn's strong involvement is essential to the stability and endurance of a relationship.”
It would be so interesting to look at the chart of the person making that sort of of view and see how Saturn is configured in their chart that would prompt them to share their thought on such a unique topic.