Luigi Mangione

[Venus_Daily]

Thank y'all for the correction

[Lyse]

Luigi Mangione born December 21st, 1998.

According to the criminal complaint, Luigi Mangione’s DOB is May 6, 1998.

https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/p ... e12924.pdf

[Jim Eshelman]

According to the criminal complaint, Luigi Mangione’s DOB is May 6, 1998.
https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/p ... e12924.pdf

Correct. There's been extensive discussion of this in astrology quarters all week. (I've been holding off until we have a time but, y'know, we may not.)

One of the most interesting things is that... here is another Leo Moon with lifelong massive back-spine issues.

Another interesting thing is that there isn't a single superior planet transit to his natal - meaning almost certainly that they are indeed hitting angles. Even the exact Sun-Saturn square that morning or the nearly stationary Mars didn't aspect anything in his natal but MAYBE were exactly on his progressed Moon (if his birth time was two or three hours before noon).

[Lyse]

(I've been holding off until we have a time but, y'know, we may not.)

I’ve been through the Baltimore papers but nothing so far.

[Venus_Daily]

Thank you for the correction

[Venus_Daily]

According to the criminal complaint, Luigi Mangione’s DOB is May 6, 1998.
https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/p ... e12924.pdf

Correct. There's been extensive discussion of this in astrology quarters all week. (I've been holding off until we have a time but, y'know, we may not.)

One of the most interesting things is that... here is another Leo Moon with lifelong massive back-spine issues.

Another interesting thing is that there isn't a single superior planet transit to his natal - meaning almost certainly that they are indeed hitting angles. Even the exact Sun-Saturn square that morning or the nearly stationary Mars didn't aspect anything in his natal but MAYBE were exactly on his progressed Moon (if his birth time was two or three hours before noon).

Jim, so where does the propensity for murder and radicalism come in? Is it the regal luminaries? Obviously, they point toward someone born into affluence as well. For being so intelligent and affluent, he obviously didn't think this through, that UHC wasn't to blame for his problems. Why take on the CEO and not the doctor who botched him.

[Jim Eshelman]

No clue. One, I don't think he has a propensity to murder. I think someone exposed to overwhelming physical pain and, just maybe, medication mismanagement had a complete personality inversion (from a well balanced, socially integrated extrovert to a brooding, isolated, antisocial introvert) in about 60 days.

He has a Sun-Mars close conjunction in Aries bit that's not enough by itself.

I think unless we get a birth time, we'll never see it in his chart.

[Ember Nyx (Mike V)]

One of the most interesting things is that... here is another Leo Moon with lifelong massive back-spine issues.

!!

My Leo Moon mother's back and neck issues have been the defining factor of her life - I can easily say the defining factor of her entire identity - for the last 4 decades. I really need to get a handle on the medical side of astrology.

[Jim Eshelman]

The medical astrology draft chapter of CSA is one of the better original things I've written.

[Jim Eshelman]

By the way - not too helpful without a time, of course - but I forgot to add his birthplace, which is very hard to find in public information. He was born six miles south of Cockeysville, Maryland (in Baltimore County).

[Jim Eshelman]

The Thompson murder was December 4, 2024, 6:44 AM EST, in New York City at 40N44'46" 73W58'47".

Without a birth time there is almost nothing findable in Mangione's chart for the occasion. For the day, there was a flitting square of transiting Venus to his Saturn that surely figures in somewhere. The one really outstanding marker is that he had a progressed Mars-Pluto opposition: for a noon birth it would be 0°06' wide for the event. (This is fitting both for an act of violence and also for his significant physical pain and disability.) - This progressed Mars-Pluto opposition at 11°44' Taurus to 11°50' Scorpio is especially significant because Ascendant at the moment of the shooting was 12°34' Scorpio!

Secondary progressions are also significant in other ways - they may be the real key to this. For a "starting point" noon birth, here is the transiting and progressed lineup for the event:

16°48' Tau - p Sun [oc r Saturn 1°32' Ari]
17°41' Sco - t Sun
17°55' Aqu - t Saturn
18°45' Leo - p Moon

There's not a lot more happening. Especially if progressed Moon were drawn more tightly into the mix, it would be more descriptive, suggesting maybe a late morning birth.

These two progressed clusters might be the best we have to work with. The problem is that the usual tools we'd go to next do not really tie into progressions. Our real lack here is the natal angles - they surely were implicated in the matter.


Since progressions are doing so well, we might look at tertiaries which sometimes have a strong showing. Sure enough, he kit a bonanza of malefic concentration! Here's the really astonishing thing about his terts: His tertiary progressed planets are for a point in time six days after the Columbine shootings! In fact, his terts are the hyper malefic Columbine chart even more concentrated and then tied back to his own chart. Observe (for the trial noon birth):

8°31' Lib - p3 Mars
9°37' Cap - p3 Neptune
11°02' Can - transiting Mars
11°36' Ari - p3 Sun
11°58' Ari - p3 Saturn

21°13' Ari - r Sun
21°49' Cap - p3 Uranus
22°42' Ari - r Mars

Remarkable!

Odds are against his birth being exactly at noon, so I won't get too excited about one more transit-to-tertiary placement, but I'll mention it. Transiting Neptune was 2°03' Pisces. If he were born precisely at noon, his fast-moving tertiary Moon would have been 1°32' Virgo.

[Jim Eshelman]

His SLR before the shooting occurred November 24. We can calculate an approximate SLR by acting as if he were born at noon: This at least gives us the chance to see what ecliptical aspects exist between transiting planets and of transits to his natal. Other than Mercury being near his natal Jupiter (and probably Moon), nothing comes up very exactly. One standout exception is a little wide - not too wide for a lunar but wider than we'd like for a major event. For a noon birth we get in the SLR:

5°04' Cap - t Pluto
7°27' Cap - r Neptune
10°08' Can - t Mars

Mars and Pluto within viable orb of his Neptune fits the event well, especially since the Ma/Pl midpoint is 7°37', almost precisely on his Neptune. This is the only reasonable lead we have.

Using Solar Fire's animate function, I set an animated transiting wheel (for the time of the SLR if he'd been born at noon) around his natal, and pick the chart wheel that rotates the outer (transiting planets) cusps to simulate a lunar return. I'll start by keeping in mind that we've had some indications of a late morning birth, so I'll walk the wheel backwards a bit from the Nov 24, 2:56 PM time a noon birth would give.

Going a little later an hour puts natal Neptune (with its transits) on MC with transiting Uranus rising. Going much later so that his Neptune is setting (with Mars-Pluto across Neptune and the horizon) is too late since it scoots Moon into Virgo - and his Leo Moon fits so very much about him. His Neptune would rise in the SLR about four hours before the noon birth (with Uranus near IC).

For now, the only birth times I'm going to consider are those that place natal Neptune (and its transits) on Asc or MC. These give Moons at 25°29' Leo and 27°51' Leo. These give speculative birth times of 8:24 AM and 1:12 PM.

The 8:24 AM time has MC 6°47' Aqu, Asc 0°05' Gem, no transits for the murder (t Neptune 2° off Zenith). The 1:12 PM time gives MC 23°28' Ari, Asc 29°56' Can (with t Uranus 29°27' Aries!)

It's a start.

[Jim Eshelman]

So let's go back and look at the transits and progressions for the event against these two times, with focus on the angles and Moon.

First, the 8:24 AM birth time.

The progressed Mars-Pluto opposition, exactly across the horizon when the trigger was repeatedly pulled, was 0°14' wide. The progressed Sun-Moon square is 0°17' wide. Progressed Mercury is square natal MC almost to the minute (and progressed Jupiter in years-long square to his MC - this doesn't seem to have been the luckiest era of his life). There are no luminary or angular Solar Arcs.

Switching to the 1:12 PM birth time.

As mentioned, transiting Uranus exactly squared this natal Ascendant. Progressed Mars-Pluto is 0°04' (but the other orb was close enough). Progressed Moon at 19°21' Leo is far from Sun (that's OK, this event was not necessarily the "new start" phase of his life) and outside orb of the transiting Sun-Saturn.

Solar Arcs produce an interesting hit with directed Ascendant opposite natal Jupiter 22'. This isn't what we'd normally look for, though I could see it (especially with Jupiter in Aquarius) for someone who saw himself as a crusader. I can't confirm the time from this contact, though, it's too ambiguous.

Tertiaries again give us a jolt! Besides the pile-up of malefics we saw before, we get angles! Observe:

21°16' Ari - r Sun
21°49' Cap - p3 Uranus
22°10' Can - p3 Asc
22°44' Ari - r Mars

Tert MC at 13°32' Aries isn't quite close enough to the tert Sun-Saturn conjunction for my tastes (11°59' and 11°39' Artoes), but it crossed the Saturn less than two months before.

I'm starting to get fond of this chart for around 1:12 PM.


Switching to quotidians...

SNQ: Nothing quite angular enough (natal Saturn a couple of degrees away). We do see the Sun-Saturn square transiting progressed Sun. Noting this and moving on...

SQ: While progressed Venus is setting, the most important feature is that SQ MC is 22°27' Cancer, square his natal Sun-Mars conjunction - especially Mars. This is the third place we have seen an angle trigger that degree. Furthermore - and quite persuasive - SQ Moon was at 5°52' Aries, squared by transiting Pluto 5°13' Capricorn.

PSSR: Nothing close enough,

So the SQ was the one clear message and the message was natal Mars on an angle and transiting Pluto square SQ Moon. - I think we got it!

[Jim Eshelman]

For this speculative time of 1:12 PM, here is the SLR for the date and exact location of the murder. First, just in longitudes for the psychological effect:

5°00' Cap - t Pluto
7°27' Cap - r Neptune
7°33' Cap - SLR MC
10°09' Can - t Mars

21°16' Ari - r Sun
22°44' Ari - r Mars
29°19' Ari - SLR Asc
297°33' Cap - SLR MC
50' Ari - t Uranus


In the usual breakdown form (and leaving out the bountiful Eris presence and several provocative PVP aspects):

t Mars IC -6°29'
t Sun Dsc -5°28'
t Uranus Asc -0°33'
-------------------------
r Neptune MC +0°21'
r Mars Asc +3°42'
t Pluto MC +3°56'
r Sun Asc +4°31'

t Pluto sq r Mars 0°14' M
t Pluto sq r Sun 0°35' M
r Sun-Mars co 0°49' M
t Uranus sq r Neptune 0°54' M
t Sun-Mars sq 1°00' M
t Pluto co r Neptune 2°26'
t Mars op r Neptune 2°42'

[Jim Eshelman]

Here is my proposed spectification for Luigi Mangione.

Luigi Mangione.png

PS - Look at his Novien if you are so inclined It has all the major aspects that were active for the shooting, even though none of these is evident in the conventional nativity.

Plus, transiting Mars 11°03' Cancer squares this chart's Novien Moon-Uranus at 10°41' Aries to 11°49' Libra.

[Venus_Daily]

Here is my proposed spectification for Luigi Mangione.

Luigi Mangione.png

PS - Look at his Novien if you are so inclined It has all the major aspects that were active for the shooting, even though none of these is evident in the conventional nativity.

Plus, transiting Mars 11°03' Cancer squares this chart's Novien Moon-Uranus at 10°41' Aries to 11°49' Libra.

The double fire luminaries still rings true. Opposite Jupiter is still even more descriptive of growing up with a silver spoon in his mouth and being insulated from hardships. It's very strange, I also have Mars/Sun aspect. Double fire luminaries, and I've never dreamed of displacing my anger onto anyone. But I wonder if they're balanced by my Moon/ Venus square, Venus/Jupiter Square, and Sun/Jupiter.

[SteveS]

By what I understand from what little I have seen on YouTube, Luigi was greatly suffering from physical/emotional pain with a bad back which he blamed on the healthcare industry/establishment, I don’t know the exact details for causing his bad back. This suggests to me maybe some type of symbolic combo with Moon-Saturn-Neptune symbolism for severe emotional suffering, according to my main source for psychological delineation -- “Combination of Stellar Influences.” I will play around with his Solar Arcs for a speculative rectified time of birth. Solar Arcs are the best tool I know of for calculating “once in a lifetime” events, although I am no rectification expert. I was impressed with Jim’s rectification and will start with his rectified time, and later look at Luigi’s Solar Arcs as well as Charles Jayne’s other Arcs.

[Venus_Daily]

By what I understand from what little I have seen on YouTube, Luigi was greatly suffering from physical/emotional pain with a bad back which he blamed on the healthcare industry/establishment, I don’t know the exact details for causing his bad back. This suggests to me maybe some type of symbolic combo with Moon-Saturn-Neptune symbolism for severe emotional suffering, according to my main source for psychological delineation -- “Combination of Stellar Influences.” I will play around with his Solar Arcs for a speculative rectified time of birth. Solar Arcs are the best tool I know of for calculating “once in a lifetime” events, although I am no rectification expert. I was impressed with Jim’s rectification and will start with his rectified time, and later look at Luigi’s Solar Arcs as well as Charles Jayne’s other Arcs.

Thanks Steve, I can see your point, and it's a point a lot of people seem to be bringing up. As a nurse who works on a post operative Ortho/Neuro floor, I've seen my fair share of spinal fusions and peoIple suffering in pain. I can confidently say that I smell something strange. Call it intuition, but an ivy league 26 year old millionaire, who can afford any doctor in the country, probably the world goes after a CEO of a health insurance company that he doesn't even have a policy with. I remember when I was botched and almost died during an adenoid removal, my mother was more concerned with hunting down the doctor.

[Veronica]

I imagine there is some strong synastry between this man and the man he shot.

[Jim Eshelman]

I imagine there is some strong synastry between this man and the man he shot.

If you'd like to check, Brian Thompson was born July 10, 1974, Ames, IA, time unknown.

[Veronica]

Wow!
There’s a lot to see there!
Very much much worth the time to look,
looking at the progressed charts cleared up many questions I had.
The notable progressed Mars Pluto opposition to Brian’s progressed Sun and Neptune square ( with their Pluto and Neptune conjunct,)is very remarkable since it is square their progressed composite Saturn.
I’m not sure if this trial will be interesting or not, but with the composite progressed Sun Mercurcy (and slightly wide Mars) conjunct it will probably be in feeds.