The Fire Signs

[Venus_Daily]

I've been thinking about lot about my Luminaries lately and being a Leo Sun, Sagittarius moon has me thinking about the worst of my Sun/Moon qualities

Leo is concerned with maintaining the status quo
Sag is concerned with enforcing the status quo through dogmatic enforcement
Aries is concerned with disrupting the status quo

Obviously, the symbolism behind this is connected to the symbolism of the seasons.

I kind of feel like I'm getting a clearer picture of why Leos are often mistaken for Virgos of antiquity. It's because a lot of a Leo's have the propensity to maintain the status quo. Starting trouble in any aspect of life goes against the status quo. I think that's why I am so attracted to men with Aries suns, not just because of my Moon/Venus square.

There's also the dark side of Leo/Sagittarius. I am using the birth time of famed, conservative transgender Youtuber Blaire White for example. Blaire was born with a Leo Sun and a very close Venus/Pluto square. Pluto being in Libra has caused a lot of gender issues for a lot of today's men born in that generation but being born under a Leo Sun, there's obviously a lot more incentive to maintain the status quo versus expressing the biological reality of flesh and chromosomes. There's also an authenticity issue that I see with the regal signs and have had to temper within myself. For instance, Blaire often chastised other "trans" people for not being trans enough therefore not closer to heterosexual feminity than they are. Yet when viewed from an outside perspective, and I'm not being homophonic when saying this, it's just an observation. I see Blaire as extremely Venus/Pluto filtered through a biological male, or an "effeminate homosexual" which is verbatim listed under the description of Venus/Pluto.

[Jim Eshelman]

Blaire White was born September 14, 1993, in Corning, CA, time unknown. Both luminaries are in Leo with Mars in Virgo. She has not only a close Venus-Pluto square but close Venus-Saturn-Pluto T-square. Her Mars aspects are also terribly interesting, though: While not as close as the Venus aspects, her Mars is 4° from conjoining Jupiter and squaring Uranus-Neptune (Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune being within about half a degree of exact aspect to each other).

I think her 0°09' Uranus-Neptune conjunction has an unusually strong place in her life with clash of realities and social revision being its major themes. (The generation with the Uranus-Neptune conjunction in Sagittarius have been collectively vocal on challenging many traditional Sagittarian-themed ideas.) All of us with strong Uranus-Neptune aspects seem to live in times when colliding realities (such as social revisions) affect the course of our lives powerfully and directly. There is also the feeling that rules have not yet been written or discovered for their lives, that there are no "maps" drawn on how to make our way through the lives into which we were born.

Thanks for the reflections on Fire Signs. For what it's worth to further the conversation, here's a paragraph I wrote on them for the book-in-progress.

Imperial signs (Leo, Sagittarius, Aries). Leo is royal, Sagittarius aristocratic, and Aries autocratic. They share an imperial presence and style. Power and command rest on their easy relation to things as they find them in the here-and-now. Moon passing through these signs marks the best times to plant or tend seed- and fruit-bearing crops.

For your own Leo-Sagittarius luminaries, we get quite a mix of characters, all with enormous talent, some with serious personal issues while others shine brightly and effectively. My list includes Amy Winehouse, Charlie Sheen, Florence Maybrick, LeAnn Rimes, Margaret Millard, Margaret Trudeau, Mary Shelley, Patsy Cline, and Rose McGowan.

For Blaire White's double Leo luminaries, the list is shorter, has some significant personal talent, and also leans more heavily to pursuing and holding power and rank: Christa McAuliffe, Emperor Franz Joseph, Fiona Apple, Gov. George Wallace, Janet Baker, and Sen. Thomas F. Eagleton.

[Jim Eshelman]

I kind of feel like I'm getting a clearer picture of why Leos are often mistaken for Virgos of antiquity. It's because a lot of a Leo's have the propensity to maintain the status quo.

This is a... I suppose I'd call it "stodgy" characteristic. And yes, they can definitely be champions of the status quo.

What I find most easy to see in Leo of the popular idea of Tropical Virgo is the attachment to perfection. "Perfectionism" is usually listed as a foremost Tropical Virgo trait quite visible in late August and early September births; but, one day, I realized there is no greater symbol of perfection in the skies than the Sun. What I call quiet dignity in Leo is what gets called prim and proper in Tropical Virgo. Tropical Virgo's reputation for talking much and dominating a social occasion is Leo holding court. Tropical Virgo is said to be picky and always trying to "fix what's wrong," while Sidereal Leo represents itself as wanting to improve lives and circumstances. I have no trouble regarding all the Sidereal 'fire' signs as realistic and pragmatic (though a couple are also idealist) - power connected to their grasp of what's right in front of them - which are, more or less, traits that Tropical writers give for Tropical 'earth' signs.

[Venus_Daily]

I kind of feel like I'm getting a clearer picture of why Leos are often mistaken for Virgos of antiquity. It's because a lot of a Leo's have the propensity to maintain the status quo.

This is a... I suppose I'd call it "stodgy" characteristic. And yes, they can definitely be champions of the status quo.

What I find most easy to see in Leo of the popular idea of Tropical Virgo is the attachment to perfection. "Perfectionism" is usually listed as a foremost Tropical Virgo trait quite visible in late August and early September births; but, one day, I realized there is no greater symbol of perfection in the skies than the Sun. What I call quiet dignity in Leo is what gets called prim and proper in Tropical Virgo. Tropical Virgo's reputation for talking much and dominating a social occasion is Leo holding court. Tropical Virgo is said to be picky and always trying to "fix what's wrong," while Sidereal Leo represents itself as wanting to improve lives and circumstances. I have no trouble regarding all the Sidereal 'fire' signs as realistic and pragmatic (though a couple are also idealist) - power connected to their grasp of what's right in front of them - which are, more or less, traits that Tropical writers give for Tropical 'earth' signs.

Yes, the perfectionist thing does hold a strong place on my life, only it's in regard to myself. With a mundane Sun/Neptune square it's manifested in body dysmorphia and complete depression if I can't achieve perfection.

I was also wondering about Pluto in Libra. Although the underground queen movement has always existed, it seems to have exploded in the mid to late 80s/early 90s. To me, women have always been strong, they just became a lot more vocal about it in that same time period. I don't know if my observation is correct or not, but it appears that with Pluto in Libra men have embraced and gone overboard with effeminacy. At least men born in the late 70s and onward. Since Pluto often mirrors conception, I wonder if something has fundamentally changed with how children are being conceived. There's so much talk about microplastics and Xenoestrogens in the environment that I don't think it's just a social issue anymore.

[Jim Eshelman]

I was also wondering about Pluto in Libra. Although the underground queen movement has always existed, it seems to have exploded in the mid to late 80s/early 90s. To me, women have always been strong, they just became a lot more vocal about it in that same time period. I don't know if my observation is correct or not, but it appears that with Pluto in Libra men have embraced and gone overboard with effeminacy. At least men born in the late 70s and onward. Since Pluto often mirrors conception, I wonder if something has fundamentally changed with how children are being conceived. There's so much talk about microplastics and Xenoestrogens in the environment that I don't think it's just a social issue anymore.

There may be something to it. I certainly think the Pluto in Libra and Neptune in Sagittarius generation (call it the Libra-Sagittarius generation) has a thing for being fabulous. This millennial group is noted for (in the collective) having a strong sense of entitlement, needing instant gratification, being ambitious but with a priority of work-life balance, and wanting constant stimulation and gratification - fitting a Libra-Sagittarius idea pretty well.

Queer activism really erupted with at Stonewall at the end of the '60s but became life-or death with the AIDS outbreak in the early '80s. By the mid-80s you mention, this was indeed a loud, strong movement. The women's movement parallelled it somewhat: Everybody was clamoring to break out in the '60s Uranus-Pluto in Leo time. The new wave of feminism and ecological movements came out hand in hand with Pluto in Virgo (also labor movements and "new morality" movements). By the time Pluto entered Libra, this was moving to other forms but especially started to mark much increase in women in the workplace (also the AIDS crisis - almost the exact period of Pluto in Libra).

Conception? Fascinating thought. When did the modern wave of conception assistance begin?

[Venus_Daily]

I was also wondering about Pluto in Libra. Although the underground queen movement has always existed, it seems to have exploded in the mid to late 80s/early 90s. To me, women have always been strong, they just became a lot more vocal about it in that same time period. I don't know if my observation is correct or not, but it appears that with Pluto in Libra men have embraced and gone overboard with effeminacy. At least men born in the late 70s and onward. Since Pluto often mirrors conception, I wonder if something has fundamentally changed with how children are being conceived. There's so much talk about microplastics and Xenoestrogens in the environment that I don't think it's just a social issue anymore.

There may be something to it. I certainly think the Pluto in Libra and Neptune in Sagittarius generation (call it the Libra-Sagittarius generation) has a thing for being fabulous. This millennial group is noted for (in the collective) having a strong sense of entitlement, needing instant gratification, being ambitious but with a priority of work-life balance, and wanting constant stimulation and gratification - fitting a Libra-Sagittarius idea pretty well.

Queer activism really erupted with at Stonewall at the end of the '60s but became life-or death with the AIDS outbreak in the early '80s. By the mid-80s you mention, this was indeed a loud, strong movement. The women's movement parallelled it somewhat: Everybody was clamoring to break out in the '60s Uranus-Pluto in Leo time. The new wave of feminism and ecological movements came out hand in hand with Pluto in Virgo (also labor movements and "new morality" movements). By the time Pluto entered Libra, this was moving to other forms but especially started to mark much increase in women in the workplace (also the AIDS crisis - almost the exact period of Pluto in Libra).

Conception? Fascinating thought. When did the modern wave of conception assistance begin?

Yes, Jim. These first "test tube baby" was born in 1978, but it became a craze in the 80s. Contraceptives and fertility meds started to become more heavily used and advertised by that time as well. God only knows the havoc they're wreaking on the water supply along with other prescription medications that are excreted through the kidneys.
I also remember reading that that the male fetus is more suseptible to not only inherited genetic disorders but structural DNA damage due to environmental contaminants because of the size of the Y chromosome.

[Jim Eshelman]

I think it's that the Y chromosome is more subject to mutation.

Most chromosomes come in pairs, one on each side. When a cell is damaged at the genetic level, it can copy the undamaged companion.

The exception is the 23rd chromosome in men. It's not an exception in women because they have two X chromosomes in the 23rd place and, if either gets damaged, it can repair itself using the other X as a template. But in men, with one X and one Y, if the Y becomes damaged (as genetic material in cells sometimes does), it has nothing to use as a template for repairing itself and, therefore, remains damaged.

[Veronica]

Venus wrote
" I wonder if something has fundamentally changed with how children are being conceived"

That very well maybe.

I do know that the rate of hermaphrodite births dropped drastically around this time, mostly because of new tec and tests that allowed detection of "abnormal or undeveloped " sexual glands and organs in utero and then tec and "treatment" in utero.
It's a very hush topic, but on a planet of 8+billion there are lots of people who are not male or female or anything, many parents are given a choice because their baby could go either way.
I did not have to hear that conversation from my midwives, and my heart goes out to the millions and millions of loving parents who did. I can't imagine.
My sister told me that my niece was born a hermaphrodite and her mother choose her to be girl. With my nieces Aries though I question what if she had chosen a boy? It was like flicking switch. There has to be some parents who choose only to have the teenager say they feel they are the wrong sex.
Technology allows Dr's and parents to not give birth to hermaphrodite as often as before by treating the baby in the womb.