Navamsas & Noviens - misc discussion

[SteveS]

Jim, I understand how you feel about house delineations, and it was considered worthless by the Sidereal community; I never use house delineations because I never have done any Natal readings and if I did-- I still would not use house delineations. BUT, in my life there are 2 houses which offer me par-excellent house symbolism with my 40 years of studying astrology---my 8th and 11th, particularly my Mars & Vx in my 8th. I am coming to the end of my life and I can only use my personal life experiences to determine what I feel is the truth of the matter when it comes to astrological methods for my personal life. Again, the best overall astrological method, by far, I have ever studied for reading my personal Natal Chart for the main mundane events in my 77 years of life is the Navamsa Chart compared back to my Natal in our Sidereal Zodiac, and I still have no idea how exactly the Hindu/Vedic astrologers were reading the Navamsa Chart. I have read where India astrologers looked upon the Navamsa Chart as having much to do with marriages, and after considering what you have written/researched about the Novien Chart--there seems to be much truth that indeed the Novien has much to do with close relationship charts---sex/love. Why, I haven't a clue except with the Moon and # 9, but you have proven to me the Novien is a valid chart to look at for close relationships/marriages. I am only offering my opinions on the Navamsa Chart based on my mundane life experiences.

[Jim Eshelman]

I know you think those houses are important to you. I tend to agree. That wasn't my point.

I was asking something more fundamental: In terms of describing your character - who you are and how you live in the world - which set of planet-to-planet contacts is more descriptive?

With the Navamsa you have:
r. Pluto = n. Uranus
r. Saturn = n. Sun
r. Mars = n. Mars, Jupiter, Mercury
r. Venus = n. Venus
r. Moon = n. Moon
r. MC = n. Saturn

With the Novien you have:
r Jupiter-Asc = n. Mercury-Mars-Jupiter
r. Venus = n. Saturn
r. Mercury-Neptune = n. Moon

It seems to me that the last set contacts - especially the way your natal Jupiter-Ascendant falls atop your Novien Mars-Jupiter (plus Novien Mercury) describes you, your passions, and your life far better than being a Sun-Saturn, MC-Saturn, Mercury-Mars, Mars-Mars, etc. person.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I was asking something more fundamental: In terms of describing your character - who you are and how you live in the world - which set of planet-to-planet contacts is more descriptive?
With the Navamsa you have:
r. Pluto = n. Uranus
r. Saturn = n. Sun
r. Mars = n. Mars, Jupiter, Mercury
r. Venus = n. Venus
r. Moon = n. Moon
r. MC = n. Saturn
With the Novien you have:
r Jupiter-Asc = n. Mercury-Mars-Jupiter
r. Venus = n. Saturn
r. Mercury-Neptune = n. Moon

As an adult in my prime with the main mundane events in my life , by far, r. Mars = n. Mars, Jupiter, Mercury, and n. Pluto as a big part of this whole Navamsa planetary picture connected to the 8H.

As an adult in my prime with my overall character, by far, r Jupiter-Asc = novien Mercury-Mars-Jupiter-Pluto.

Which means to me the symbolic nature of the houses when emphasized in a Natal has to do with the mundane vs character, but as has been written: “Character is destiny.” IMO, I think in India people/astrologers were more interested in their life experiences encountered with mundane life vs describing someone's character experiences for life the US. No doubt in my mind my Navamsa Venus partile 180 r Venus nailed the type of marriage I would experience in my life (include symbolism for 2 & 11 H for this potent Venus Navamsa contact). As well--Navamsa Saturn partile 180 my r MC nailed the famine in careers in my life. I went through an absolute career life of 50-50 famine (Saturn) and feast (r Jupiter/Asc). Also, IMO, I think India's system/methodology of the Navamsa Chart really got screwed-up when tropical z took hold of the India astrologers vs ancient sidereal z with astrologers in India. IMO, both the Navamsa & Novien charts are very interesting charts to explore in Fagan/Bradley Sidereal z.

[SteveS]

Another major act in my life’s cosmic stage play was the terrible relationship I had with my father as an adult. He was an acholic and physically abused my mother which ended in a bloody divorce with all kinds of 8H legal matters affecting most of my adult personal life. IMO, this father act is symbolized with my Navamsa Sun (25,31 Cap) class 1 180 to my r Saturn (24,02 Can).

[SteveS]

Here is a most interesting speculative (only one example) Navamsa test for LA's 2024 Cansolar symbolizing the devastating fires in LA:

It just came to my attention with 20-20 hindsight and with my opinion there is par-excellent symbolism with LA’s Daily Jan 7 2025 CanQ Mars-Uranus cnj on LA’s CanQ Zenith for the beginning of LA’s devastating wildfires. I now want to interpret LA’s 2024 Cansolar angular Mars-Uranus cnj as symbolizing a Mars-Uranus “outstanding incident” 2024 Cansolar Chart for LA. I just posted about LA’s Jan 7 2025 CanQ chart here: https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?p=64115#p64115.

So, with this experimental thread I now want to take a look at LA’s 2024 Cansolar Navamsa Chart—comparing its 9th harmonic planet positions in Fagan/Bradley’s Sidereal Z back to LA’s 2024 Cansolar.

1: Since # 9 in certain ancient lore has much “prophetic” astrological symbolism to do with the Moon, I want to pay close attention to any Navamsa planet positions in synastry aspect with LA’s 2024 Cansolar Moon, and aspects of Navamsa Moon to 2024 LA Cansolar planets. First off, starring us in our eyes is a tight angular Navamsa Saturn 06,52 Tau partile 180 2024 LA Cansolar angular Moon 06,18 Scorpio; LA 2024 Cansolar MC 04,51 Scorpio. This is symbolizing an “outstanding incident” Moon-Saturn LA event, and since the Moon in mundane astrology has much to do with the “people”, we can clearly see here the depressing Saturn effects for the “people of LA with these devastating wildfires. Also, Navamsa Pluto 23,22 Aqu partile conjunct 2024 Cansolar Saturn 24,05 Aqu; Navamsa Moon 26,46 Leo. All of the above aspects are definitely par-excellent symbolism for the people of LA with these devastating wildfires!

2: Both 2024 LA 2024 Cansolar Mars 02,20 Tau; Cansolar IC 04,51 Tau, and Navamsa Mars 21,07 Cap; LA’s Cansolar ASC 18,28 Cap are angular offering par-excellent symbolism for fires.

3: Angular LA’s Cansolar Mars 02,20 Tau—Navamsa Saturn 06,52 Tau calculates a tight angular partile Mars/Saturn = LA’s 2024 Cansolar MC at 04,51 Scorpio.

4: We are not supposed to include Navamsa angular placements but I note this aspect as most interesting for this synastry analysis:

Navamsa MC 13,47 Leo
Navamsa Neptune 13,07 Leo
LA’s 2024 Cansolar Vertex 13,34 Leo. All 2 angular placements very unique to only Los Angeles 2024 Cansolar & Navamsa charts!

Inner wheel LA's 2024 Cansolar; outer wheel LA's 2024 Cansolar Navamsa:

https://ibb.co/vzYvxVd

[Veronica]

Thank you for this breakdown Steve. Very interesting to me, several of those aspects you explored are touching on my natal and I am feeling it personally as I have loved ones in the area.

[SteveS]

Your welcome V. With 20-20 hindsight, It is obvious LA’s 2024 Cansolar angular Mars-Uranus cnj symbolized the devastating wildfires around LA. The Navamsa chart synastry to LA’s 2024 Cansolar is a very interesting speculative synastry.