Lance’s Friend CK

[Lance]

CK (female)
1/1/1973
8:55 PM
Pasadena, TX

This is a friend whose chart I am running.

She has a very close Moon-Saturn opposition, a wide Sun-Jupiter conjunction that is backgrounded, and a medium Jupiter-Uranus square that is backgrounded.

She has struggled with depression her whole life, and I feel like the information about these specific things may make her feel lost to fate. I am at a loss for how to give her this information in a positive way.

She has already indicated that just the new sidereal Sun and Moon sign interpretations were significant to her - to be printed up and included in her, sort of, fancy journal she is crafting.

But even in our recent conversations, was going on about how much she loved songs like “Hallelujah” (specifically the Leonard Cohen version), “Mad World,” and “But Not For Me.” She was talking about how they filled you up and emptied you out at the same time. And she’s 100% right. And those are amazing songs. But I only bring it up to say that this is kind of where she dwells - in that kind of sad yearning and sense of missing out.

And I feel like I’m about to tell her, hey that’s just your personality. And I’m nervous about how she’s gonna feel about that.

Any advice from anyone on a way to approach this kind of thing?

[Veronica]

You work as a career counselor if I recall correctly? Helping people extenuate their positive gifts and strengthen their weaknesses takes a skillful hand. Since she is not a client but a friend, you must have very nice synastry with her, and find her natal character pleasant and agreeable to you in someway, as shown by your aspects to her chart. You must not mind that she has a touch of sadness, or feel she has missed out on things but are accepting of her, love her, respect her for the unique individual she is. Maybe talking to her about what you find interesting, unique and special about her is a way to bridge some of the background traits conversations. I feel that was how I was presented to some of my not so pleasant aspects, with compassion, synastry, tact, little white lies, lotsa love and a very deep draught of time.

[Lance]

You work as a career counselor if I recall correctly? Helping people extenuate their positive gifts and strengthen their weaknesses takes a skillful hand. Since she is not a client but a friend, you must have very nice synastry with her, and find her natal character pleasant and agreeable to you in someway, as shown by your aspects to her chart. You must not mind that she has a touch of sadness, or feel she has missed out on things but are accepting of her, love her, respect her for the unique individual she is. Maybe talking to her about what you find interesting, unique and special about her is a way to bridge some of the background traits conversations. I feel that was how I was presented to some of my not so pleasant aspects, with compassion, synastry, tact, little white lies, lotsa love and a very deep draught of time.

Doh! I forgot her Venus-Saturn opposition too.

I studied but never became a counselor. Long story.

Yes, I was listening to "Be Yourself" by Audioslave on the way to the grocery store while ago, having a moment. Did you ever see the movie "Inside Out"? I'm struck by how much she is like the psyche-character Sadness. Her strength was empathy, and another, older iteration of her ends up playing a sort of counselor role when we see the psyche-characters of the main character's mother.

[Veronica]

You work as a career counselor if I recall correctly? Helping people extenuate their positive gifts and strengthen their weaknesses takes a skillful hand. Since she is not a client but a friend, you must have very nice synastry with her, and find her natal character pleasant and agreeable to you in someway, as shown by your aspects to her chart. You must not mind that she has a touch of sadness, or feel she has missed out on things but are accepting of her, love her, respect her for the unique individual she is. Maybe talking to her about what you find interesting, unique and special about her is a way to bridge some of the background traits conversations. I feel that was how I was presented to some of my not so pleasant aspects, with compassion, synastry, tact, little white lies, lotsa love and a very deep draught of time.

Doh! I forgot her Venus-Saturn opposition too.

I studied but never became a counselor. Long story.

Yes, I was listening to "Be Yourself" by Audioslave on the way to the grocery store while ago, having a moment. Did you ever see the movie "Inside Out"? I'm struck by how much she is like the psyche-character Sadness. Her strength was empathy, and another, older iteration of her ends up playing a sort of counselor role when we see the psyche-characters of the main character's mother.

I did see it. I saw part two as well. Highly recommend both to everyone.
I also recommend getting acquainted with Christopher Robin's friend in the 100 Acre Woods called Eeyore.
Maybe you could watch them with her and talk about it to her.

[Jim Eshelman]

Lance, my first impression (from reading your letter, not from the charts) is that there is a particular thing you are afraid to tell her - that you have unconscious or less conscious fear for her that is creating a withhold in you - and that whatever you don't want to tell her is probably not true anyway (or at least not entirely or necessarily true).

Step one, then, is to get completely conscious about what you don't want to tell her... otherwise, you'll blurt it out directly or indirectly anyway. Step two is remembering that there are specific ways chart elements can express themselves, many specific outcomes, and neither you nor she should get stuck on any particular outcome. (I know this is vague. It deals mostly with things in your own mind, and you can fill in the blanks.)

We always have to distinguish our own needs in the process of serving others: Not take our needs out of the picture (goodness no! we have to bring our own whole selves to the task), but, rather, to be conscious of what our own needs are at the moment. For example, what does it mean that your Mars closely squares her Sun? (There are many variations. Sort it out.) Or that her Mars closely conjoins your Neptune? (You make her own Mars-Neptune closer than in her chart alone. It also feels like something about her scares and sets your imagination tumbling.)

So... sort out your own place in this mix of energies first.


Then I turned to the chart and saw the things you mentioned. What's most obvious to me about her chart besides the first-impression Saturn opposite a Moon-Venus conjunction, is that she's tough. This isn't a frail chart. - I should clarify that a bit by saying that, sure, life may have dealt her a lot of hardship so that she's come out at the worst end of all possible versions of her... but that wasn't what you said (and I'm counting on you to know if my higher expectations for her are wrong, since you know her).

She's tough. Life has likely forged her tough. She's mostly better suited to surviving harder conditions than to having things easy. If there is one side of this that her Sagittarius would rather not focus on, it's probably how deeply angry she is (Saturn opposite a Scorpio Moon, Mars being the only planet foreground at all and in aspect to Neptune and Pluto, etc,). I'll come back to the anger in the next post.

Then, from her chart, the next thing I notice is clearly good news: I wanted to know where in her life she is right now, what's going on with her. Transiting Uranus has been crossing her Midheaven, is still in partile orb, and soon will square her Ascendant. Right now, transiting Jupiter exactly opposes her Moon (about to cross her Saturn). She's ready for truth, clarity, even exposure. That Jupiter transit to Moon means that right now is one of the better times for healing whatever her Moon has absorbed in life. Your timing is excellent.

[Jim Eshelman]

So, what's true about her and those worrisome aspects...? Here is her chart from TM:

Code: Select all

      Long     Lat   Speed    RA     Dec    Azi     Alt      ML     PVL    Ang  
Mo 19Sc27'42"  2S53 +11°51' 252° 5' 25S20 277°23' -70° 6' 199°32' 109°45'  56%   
Su 17Sg12'41"  0S 0 + 1° 1' 282°35' 22S56 265°16' -42°54' 355°37' 137° 0'  28%   
Me  1Sg54'50"  0S 9 + 1°29' 265°57' 23S32 272°17' -57°33' 183°35' 122°26'  50% Vx
Ve 23Sc31'50"  0N51 + 1°15' 256°56' 22S 2 281°21' -64°47' 202°42' 114°47'  51%   
Ma  7Sc17'48"  0N16 +40'51" 239°37' 20S15 315°40' -77°15' 252°27'  98°59'  84% I 
Ju 23Sg42'36"  0S10 +13'58" 289°37' 22S24 262°58' -36°39' 354°48' 143° 9'  10%  b
Sa 20Ta51'17"  1S36 - 4' 9"  74° 9' 21N 2 106°15' +66°43'  33° 1' 292°27'  53%   
Ur 28Vi24' 3"  0N37 + 1'23" 201°18'  8S17  57°30' -55°31' 218° 2'  59°55'   0%  b
Ne 11Sc54'13"  1N35 + 1'56" 244°41' 19S48 303°35' -73°32' 241°52' 103°50'  70%   
Pl 10Vi 3'14" 16N28 + 0' 9" 190°42' 13N20  47°12' -32°35' 203°28'  41° 3'  42%   
Mc 28Ar11'19" .............  50° 9' 18N25 180° 0' +78°43' ....... 270° 0'  ...
As  1Le 5'56" ..................... 13N 2 .......   0° 0' .......   0° 0'  ...
Ep 23Cn20'15" ............. 140° 9' 15N32 ....................................
Vx  6Sg13'21" ..................... 23S27 270° 0' -53°26' ....................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Class 1 Aspects             Class 2 Aspects             Class 3 Aspects    
Mo op Sa  1°24'  98%        Mo co Ve  4° 4'  82%        Su sq Pl  5°57'  35% M
Ve op Sa  2°19'  94% M      Mo co Ne  5°55'  63% M      Me co Ve  7°39'  39% M
Ma sx Pl  2°45'  85%        Su co Ju  6° 9'  60% M      Me op Sa  9°59'   0% M
Ne sx Pl  1°51'  93%        Me sx Ur  3°31'  76%        Sa op Ne  8°37'  24% M
                            Ve sx Ur  4°52'  56%                              
                            Ma oc Ju  1°25'  76%                              
                            Ma co Ne  4°36'  77%                              
                            Ju sq Ur  4°41'  59%                              
                            Ur oc Ne  1°30'  73% 

Sorting through the main features: Sun-Moon are Sagittarius-Scorpio, two adjacent signs that stand at odds with each other in many ways (neither of them wants to "be" the other). Scorpio is clearly the stronger, both because Mars is there as well and she has a full Scorpio stellium, and because with Moon in Scorpio she has a foreground Mars while with Sun in Sagittarius she has a background Jupiter.

The aspects in placements around that Scorpio stellium are emotionally turbulent. One can fantasize all sorts of things from it that may or may not be true and, if true, would have fed her depression. Both the Moon aspects and the turbulent 4th House concentration suggest a childhood in her formative home that was psychologically turbulent. (With girls, one tends first to think father issues, though the closest afflictions to Moon suggest it was mother. In either case, I don't think the childhood felt safe to her. There was likely early loss of the mother or "loss of femininity" - conflicts with women and not knowing how to relate to them - Scorpio Moon young women tend to have a strong "tomboy" leaning and are often sexually precocious. Severe religious elements in the formative life might have modified that - suppressed it or accelerated it - with a Sagittarius Sun and the close Moon-Saturn.)

But, despite the severity, she was constituted to be a survivor. One side of Moon-Saturn is rebellion against what Don Bradley once called "too steady a diet of Proverbs and Paul."

OK... this was meant just to be a "gathering data" phase. Sagittarius Sun with background Jupiter. Scorpio Moon and Mars as part of a Scorpio stellium. Saturn opposes the Moon-Venus conjunction. Mars is the most angular planet and has moderate aspects to Neptune and Pluto. The three important Class 1 aspects are Moon-Saturn opposition, Venus-Saturn opposition, and Mars-Pluto sextile. There might be a "Jupiter bruise," a sense that she didn't get the breaks everybody else seemed to get.

But she wasn't "made" for ease. She's tough and runs her own show. When I look at a list of adults I know with close hard Moon-Saturn aspects, the single loudest trait I see in nearly all of them is pride. Moon-Saturn people are self-made creations and tend to be pretty proud of what they have created.

As always, we want to answer the question: How can she be her fullest, healthiest self-expression? What would let all of her express at once. On a cold reading, my eye would have looked at the Sagittarius-Scorpio luminaries and wondered what kind of person one could craft and of being both fully Sagittarian and fully Scorpian at once. You don't say what she does with her life... maybe she's already found an answer to that? I have a Sagittarius-Scorpio female friend who just finished training as a death doula.


With this startup framework... what are her real needs? TM calculates her Needs Hierarchy thus:

98% - Saturn
92% - Jupiter
90% - Mars
-----------------
82% - Venus
70% - Neptune
56% - Moon
50% - Mercury
-----------------
42% - Pluto
28% - Sun
0% - Uranus

Her single strongest needs are the Saturn needs. Called the Materialistic Needs, they include needs to acquire, construct, order, conserve, and retain. In practice, this usually centers on self-preservation (survival) needs, though it also marks highly productive, constructive people. Jupiter and Mars are second to Saturn - the three planets usually mark people who do OK financially or professionally.

What also catches my eye is the almost total lack of Uranus in her - and Sun and Pluto also low. This isn't just strong Saturn... it's strong Saturn with an effective absence of Uranus. Now I'm really interested how Uranus' transits across her angles has gone. Where has the balance in her life been between playing it safe and blowing down the walls to get free? How does the "civilized, behaved" Sagittarius relate to the "I need to be free, God damn it, and nobody will tell me otherwise" Scorpio? Is "safe and civilized" vs. "free and risk-taking" the main tension she's lived out in her life? (You have my curiosity going.)

Before I forget again - interrupting myself - something important to know about Scorpio luminary women is that - especially when they have accumulated, unexpressed, unactualized rage - is that they are terrified of hurting someone or causing damage. They don't tend to mention this fact, but they live their lives this way. Several I have known give the impression that they caused a lot of damage to other people in a previous incarnation and are now just trying to control themselves and not hurt anyone else. Setting reincarnation aside, there is at least (in most examples) a buried cauldron of rage that they don't feel safe letting out. I think this is a mixture of their basic nature with how society still raises little girls. Most depression I have seen in Scorpio women is entwined with stored rage plus fear of hurting someone. (Or something like that.)

Continuing on...

[Jim Eshelman]

She has struggled with depression her whole life, and I feel like the information about these specific things may make her feel lost to fate. I am at a loss for how to give her this information in a positive way. [...]

But even in our recent conversations, was going on about how much she loved songs like “Hallelujah” (specifically the Leonard Cohen version), “Mad World,” and “But Not For Me.” She was talking about how they filled you up and emptied you out at the same time. And she’s 100% right. And those are amazing songs. But I only bring it up to say that this is kind of where she dwells - in that kind of sad yearning and sense of missing out.

And I feel like I’m about to tell her, hey that’s just your personality. And I’m nervous about how she’s gonna feel about that.

I suppose you need to find a way to fill her up and empty her out at the same time.

If counseling such a person, I'd want to learn - by observing or asking questions - how some of the challenging-looking aspects have already worked out in her life. I suspect a turbulent childhood that didn't feel safe, felt like it had a loss of nurturing and closeness, had strong parental conflicts and possible loss of mother or loss of any model on how to be a woman. -- Is any of this true? I imagine her love relationships have seemed unsatisfying - "trouble with men" in various ways (presuming men are her cup of tea). -- Are all the things we might expect from this true? How about personal-professional balance, or other areas where sacrifice of pleasure for responsibilities is more likely. Is this true?

I'm not saying give her a checklist. You may already know all these things. I'm saying this is what I'd expect, although some people take this kind of chart and come out a bit differently. Some people have had therapy or spiritual working or other self-work that has put their internally conflicting parts in positive relationship (balance).

Where has she felt she has expressed herself well in her life? What parts of herself has she not given voice to? Is now the time to break loose on things not yet realized?


OK, how to talk to her: What I find myself saying about her most is that she's tough, a survivor, one who struggles with the world. Despite the strong civilizing Sagittarian nature in her, she was made more able to take on life's struggles (whether primitive survival struggles or their modern, sophisticated equivalents) than to take an easy life. This entry-point highlights her strengths - doesn't leave her as any kind of victim. She was made to compete, to route assailants and win battles. I suspect she will easily agree that she wasn't made for a Pollyanna life. (I mean... she loves Cohen. "It doesn't matter which you heard, the holy or the broken...")

"I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you." Tell her the truth, which is that she's strong and a survivor.

Then explore how else these Saturn needs have unfolded in her life. Has she built things? Order or preserved or secured things?

In any case, these same needs, these strongest needs in her psyche are strongly tied into her Moon and Venus. Venus-Saturn often gives a life of unsatisfying efforts at love, or great loss in love, not because of some fate but because of how survival needs, responsibilities, and other Saturn-themed choices play out in love relationships. Moon-Saturn is about these really strong survival needs entwining with her instincts to adapt to threatening circumstances: adaptive responses (which are an important type of survival mechanism) entwine with self-preservation needs. (Or maybe she's just never gotten over Daddy.)

There are all sorts of good things to say about Moon-Saturn and Venus-Saturn - they're spelled out in Handbook of Sidereal Natal Interpretations and this site. If they're true, she can see them having worked out in her life.

Nothing is stuck in a particular event or particular conditions. It's all a matter of her own strongest needs playing out successfully in her life.

I think that's the angle you need.

[Jim Eshelman]

A few other things from the Cosmic State report, since I have the Time Matters page open:

Her Moon is in a difficult condition - no BS about that. It's in its fall (Scorpio is a hard Moon, despite its many benefits), closely opposes Saturn and moderately conjoins Venus on one side and Neptune on the other. This is an afflicted Moon and life likely has been emotionally hard. The Moon-Venus may make this easier or harder: I suspect it means she feels things strongly and wants things in her life that the other aspects make harder. As a first impression, I'd think there is some sort of love-tragedy here (possibly on the issue of children; perhaps not).

Her Sun is less dramatic. It's weakly placed, has a widish-conjunction with its sign-ruler Jupiter and a wide mundane square to Pluto. Sagittarian traits are the main expression of this. There is a part of her that would like things easy.

Mercury may be a strength, a low-demand comfort. Mercury in Sagittarius is not the worst detriment a planet can have - it's usually a good placement - and the sextile to Uranus can keep life interesting, curiosities flourishing, entertaining herself with interesting new topics, perhaps always reading something or other.

Venus has a harsh Cosmic State, but not an unrecoverable one. It's middleground, in its detriment (adding more Scorpio fuel to her life), and closely opposed Saturn. It's also moderately aspecting Moon and Uranus. These give some space to play up the positive sides of Venus-Saturn - some things she can appreciate about her life - though, yeah, Venus in Scorpio closely opposite Saturn is rough.

Mars is one of her strongest planets, the one foreground planet, in its own sign, ruling Moon's sign. Its moderate octile to Jupiter even gives a positive spin, adds strength and vitality for life. But its closely sextile Pluto and moderately conjunct Neptune: Given everything else here, it's pretty likely she has stores of unexpressed anger. Or, to say it differently: If at 52 she hasn't learned to give comfortable, appropriate expression to anger as it arises, and is still hording old resentments, this might be the single most fruitful area for her personal psychological growth (and add years to her life).

Jupiter is at home in Sagittarius and rules Sun's sign, but is background. Its aspects are pretty balanced, especially because the (technically malefic) aspect from Mars is not usually that rough of an aspect. The other aspects tend to be pretty positive. The big Jupiter issue is that, as a Sag, she was born with strong longings to fulfill Jupiter needs, yet the background Jupiter suggests she hasn't felt she got the ordinary breaks that other people get.

Her Saturn is more positive than not. From Saturn's perspective, it's extremely strong and closely aspecting a benefic. (The mundane oppositions to Mars and Neptune are likely too wide to overcome the close oppositions from Moon and Venus.)

The background Uranus - only 0°05' from a cadent cusp - is one of the most distinctive pieces of the chart, especially in contrast to the strong Saturn. While she has traits that may look like Uranian independence - Saturn's need for autonomy and not to be controlled, Mars' need for power and control - she actually has nothing in the chart suggesting strong needs for freedom and renewal. (This could show up in all sorts of life circumstances.) I wonder what it would do for her - perhaps under the current Uranus transits - to break away, fly to an island somewhere and just get refreshed and renewed with nobody else to answer to and no responsibilities.

[Jim Eshelman]

Lance, did she spend her last birthday in Beaumont? Her last solar return is intense - has some of the best stuff she could have right now AND the worst. I'd like to get the location right. For Beaumont:

r Venus Asc -6°42'
t Neptune IC -5°12'
r Moon Asc -4°37'
r Saturn Dsc -3°46'
t Jupiter Dsc -1°26'
------------------------
t Mercury EP +1°05'
r Pluto Asc +5°09'
t Saturn IC +7°18'
r Mars Asc +9°26'

t Saturn sq r Moon 0°05'
r Moon-Saturn op 0°51' M
t Neptune sq r Moon 0°35' M
t Neptune sq r Saturn 1°26' M
t Jupiter op r Moon 1°29'
t Neptune sq r Venus 1°30' M
t Jupiter-Saturn sq 1°34'
t Saturn sq r Saturn 1°19'
r Moon-Venus co 2°06' M
t Saturn sq r Mars 2°09' M
t Saturn sq r Neptune 2°09' M
t Jupiter co r Saturn 2°21' M
r Venus-Saturn op 2°41'
t Mercury co r Venus 2°57' M

[Lance]

Self-reflection: Yes, my Venus-Saturn square and backgrounded Venus... man, I can't even tell you how much i wish all that was different. It goes deep. The hardest thing for me to tell people about are their backgrounded planets. It just seems to represent things that people really struggle with their whole lives.

Thank you for the in depth look. I'll get her SSR location if she's game.

[Jim Eshelman]

Self-reflection: Yes, my Venus-Saturn square and backgrounded Venus... man, I can't even tell you how much i wish all that was different. It goes deep. The hardest thing for me to tell people about are their backgrounded planets. It just seems to represent things that people really struggle with their whole lives.

I think I gave you the text on that subject I wrote for the book-in-progress, didn't I?

While writing it, the thing that gelled - that seemed like a useful revelation - was a clarification of the subjective sense that one is blocked. I realized that everybody meets resistance on more or less everything we do, but the world "works" because typical (average) social resistance is something most people can push back against - with an average, or above-average amount of energy. -- Ah, but what if your "native state" of expressing that particular energy is below average. It's not that you can't do it; it's that you have to push harder. It's not that you don't have what it takes; it's that what looks like other people experience with their personal average amount of energy doesn't work for you unless you push extra hard.

So most of the background traits seem to be some form of feeling resistance, feeling blocked, like people or the universe in general are singling you out just because it's not as easy for you as it is for everybody else. It feels like you don't get listened to as easily as other people, or don't get the breaks it seems everybody else gets, etc. The truth, though, is that the particular energy in question - the particular need-force inside of you - just doesn't happen to be as strong as the average. You have to work at it.

This is also where I settled on the word "bruise." People can come to have a bruise in that area of life. This can compound over time. It becomes a touchy spot.

[Lance]

Thank you very much for that. It’s very helpful.

[Lance]

Lance, did she spend her last birthday in Beaumont? Her last solar return is intense - has some of the best stuff she could have right now AND the worst. I'd like to get the location right. For Beaumont:

r Venus Asc -6°42'
t Neptune IC -5°12'
r Moon Asc -4°37'
r Saturn Dsc -3°46'
t Jupiter Dsc -1°26'
------------------------
t Mercury EP +1°05'
r Pluto Asc +5°09'
t Saturn IC +7°18'
r Mars Asc +9°26'

t Saturn sq r Moon 0°05'
r Moon-Saturn op 0°51' M
t Neptune sq r Moon 0°35' M
t Neptune sq r Saturn 1°26' M
t Jupiter op r Moon 1°29'
t Neptune sq r Venus 1°30' M
t Jupiter-Saturn sq 1°34'
t Saturn sq r Saturn 1°19'
r Moon-Venus co 2°06' M
t Saturn sq r Mars 2°09' M
t Saturn sq r Neptune 2°09' M
t Jupiter co r Saturn 2°21' M
r Venus-Saturn op 2°41'
t Mercury co r Venus 2°57' M

Yes. She spent her last SSR in Beaumont, TX.

[Jim Eshelman]

Benefic and malefic planets are perfectly balanced by angularity: Transiting Jupiter is easily the single strongest planet (and there's a bit of Venus), then a whole lot of malefic planets foreground but more weakly so. It works out to a tie score (7 points each).

The aspects are similarly mixed: There is no missing that transiting Saturn and Neptune aspect her natal Moon-Saturn - among several other unpleasant aspects (including Saturn to ALL of her natal malefics). Their balance is bad for someone with a history of depression. And then we get the transiting Jupiter opposite her Moon! It's not as strong as the 0°05' Moon-Saturn, but it's not nothing. I think the balance means that there is a way out, but it's not an easy emotional or chemical road this year.


To get some perspective, though, ignore the two widest (Class 3) angularities - transiting Saturn and natal Mars. With them gone, the weight eases a bit. Neptune to her Moon-Venus-Saturn is still rough, but not the same. Because transiting Saturn is so weakly foreground, we don't want to give its aspects as much weight as we would otherwise. This looks difficult (especially chemically) and yet quite a lot lighter than the other.

r Venus Asc -6°42'
t Neptune IC -5°12'
r Moon Asc -4°37'
r Saturn Dsc -3°46'
t Jupiter Dsc -1°26'
------------------------
t Mercury EP +1°05'
r Pluto Asc +5°09'

r Moon-Saturn op 0°51' M
t Neptune sq r Moon 0°35' M
t Neptune sq r Saturn 1°26' M
t Jupiter op r Moon 1°29'
t Neptune sq r Venus 1°30' M
t Jupiter-Saturn sq 1°34'
r Moon-Venus co 2°06' M
t Jupiter co r Saturn 2°21' M
r Venus-Saturn op 2°41'
t Mercury co r Venus 2°57' M