Iceland and PanamaPapers

[Arena]

Apr 05, 2016
Ok, so the PanamaPaper scandal is becoming very big in Iceland, as well as casting outside attention on Iceland.
HUGE (peaceful) protest yesterday in front of parliament and prime minister is being asked to resign. He says he won't. It is estimated that this protest could be one of the biggest protest in the history of the country with possibly around 10-12% of the people in voting age (another earlier being womans-off-day in 1975 and again in this century to embrace the memory of it and re-demand what was demanded at the time). This is equivalent to 30-36 million people protesting in USA!
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/a ... e-offshore

Although Jim and others have stated that there is no surprise in this - and many of us are not that surprised. But many people are. And the rage is not just about the fact that money is hidden away in tax havens, it is also about his work negotiating the banking crisis where his wife was one of the big creditors, passing laws in parliament about tax havens and exemptions ... the list goes on. This case is not just about him having money in tax haven.

So this is a BIG deal not only locally, but internationally - as news reporters are talking about Iceland and the international image of a free and uncorrupted country is being destroyed.

So do we see this in ingress charts or national chart?

Let me look into it. I hope I am casting it correctly.
The Capsolar chart shows me this:
Angularity:
Z-An-prime vert Sun and Mercury on DSC with Mercury as the closest (I guess that can explain the media attention and spotlight).
Z-An-Azi shows the Neptune-Saturn square in wider foreground with Neptune 4 from MC
Saturn is 2,68 from WP.

I don't know if you sometimes compare the ingress charts to the national charts - but doing that, I see that ing.Saturn is partile opposite n.Mercury-Uranus conjunction. I see the ingr. Moon is almost exact trine n. Pluto. The natal Moon also receives a trine from ingr. Pluto and n. Moon is squared by ingr. Mars.

[Arena]

Added at noon my time.
It looks like the parliament might be dissolved, or breakup to have elections again.

The president and PM have just had a meeting about that.

[Arena]

If you can tell me a date/time that best marks the center of impact (when the news broke, when people woke up and started seeing it, etc.), I can look more precisely, but here are thebasics.

CAPSOLAR. Saturn squares MC 0°10', and Sun and Mercury are conjoined (2°23' in mundo) just below Descendant. Pluto is also in the setting foreground, in wide but acceptable orb of conjunct Sun. In simple terms, trying not to over-hindsight it: Really bad stuff happens, possibly of economic or other "hard blow" variety, and it's all about or centered on the head of state or the government more generally. There is an "outside the law" and "face the music" feel to it all. - Compare this chart to some of those for Richard Nixon's resignation, included in SMA.

CAPLUNAR. Neptune exactly setting (0°30'), Jupiter closely rising (< 3°). Less clear cut but primarily showing extreme excitement (whether happy or unhappy), such as the insanity of a crowd, whether at a major sporting event or acting as a mob: madness, panic, confusion, uncertainty, disorientation, and a gripping sense of, “So, what happens now?” The added Jupiter would normally make us think it's excitement over good stuff, but the wide Jupiter-Neptune mundane opposition suggests embarrassment ("financial embarrassment" is probably the right interpretation, but wouldn't have been easy to identify in advance); events of powerful inspiration, faith, and idealism; compelling surreal optimism; belief-driven motivation and decision-making (religious-themed); powerful opposing belief and bigotry; and entertainment themes.

TIMING. Transiting Saturn conjoins Capsolar Westpoint. Yesterday, CapQ Asc conjoined transiting Jupiter. It's an afflicted Jupiter - almost partile square Saturn (which is not, itself, on the Q angles). -- Meanwhile, about noon yesterday, transiting Saturn was only 0°10' from exact conjunction with Reykjavik's Cansolar Ascendant. (Saturn's station the other day was only 16' from the Ascendant.) This would have been really easy to pick, in advance, as one of the worst weeks for Iceland for the year, just based on these two Saturn transits. Yesterday, CanQ Ascendant was 24° Pisces, putting it in orb of Cansolar Uranus, transiting Uranus, transiting Pluto, Cansolar Mercury...

[Arena]

OK, very interesting noon in Iceland - unusual things are happening. The president has denied the PM of dissolving the parliament until he has spoken to leaders of all parties in parliament and made sure who will be in government until elections. Very wise answer from the president though. But for us it is just unusual that the president is a player in politics.

Ok timing - are you talking about Cansolar in the last sentence, or Capsolar?

The news broke between 18-19 on sunday - the TV had a special news report an sent it at the same time as other news channels abroad. It was a very good program, starting at 18 and going on for one hour - and left the nation here in total shock. That was the first impact. And I believe it was hard.

Second impact and probably the center of impact was yesterday at the protest. IT was at 17 on 4th April and lasted for hours - and it was one of the biggest protest in the history as I said ... and per capita scale it is possibly one of the biggest protest in world history.

Third impact is today at noon when the PM behaves like a dictator and thinks he can go to the president and ask for the parliament to be dissolved without knowing whether majority of parliament is behind that. Trying to avoid the proposal of distrust of the minority from yesterday and using this as leverage against the coalition partner party sitting in government with him. Outrageous behavior. This leading to the president to have no choice other than to deny him of this and wanting to speak to the other leaders - I think the presidents announcement on the news was around 12.30.

[Arena]

Ok timing - are you talking about Cansolar in the last sentence, or Capsolar?

I described Capsolar (and its progressions) first, then Cansolar. The Capsolar has Saturn transiting Westpoint within the 2° orb that tends to bound discernible effects in these charts. The Cansolar, though, has Saturn mere minutes from Ascendant. To get the full import of this for primary timing, see section on "Middle-term or "Bridge" Techniques" in Chapter 4 of SMA. In the current 9th edition its on page 24.

The news broke between 18-19 on sunday

Thanks, I'll look closer when I get the chance.

Second impact and probably the center of impact was yesterday at the protest. IT was at 17 on 4th April and lasted for hours - and it was one of the biggest protest in the history as I said ... and per capita scale it is possibly one of the biggest protest in world history.

Thanks.

[Arena]

Can't find a time, but the PM stepped down, and the minister of fisheries is stepping in. Protesters are now protesting because the new PM wasn't elected. I don't know how it works in Iceland, but doesn't it take more than a few hours to put on an election there?

[Arena]

Not sure how it works in Iceland, either. (Arena will be able to tell us.) In most parliamentary countries, removal of a PM is not the same as a "no confidence" on the government, and the PM isn't elected. The parliament is elected, and the majority party or coalition choses the PM.

Apparently that's not what Icelanders expected here, so they probably do it differently.

Some serious impact from the Saturn station on the Cansolar Ascendant.

[Arena]

Right Jim, the PM is not elected as PM, we just elect the parliament and then the majority in parliament forms the government and decides on PM... the thing is that people are now wanting new elections and not only a change within the current government. But the government does not want to give up power.
IF parliament is dissolved, elections are called for and it takes 45 days to prepare.

To add a bit, the PM that just resigned did not do so out of his own initiative. He did it because he was put into a corner and forced to. He still thinks he has done nothing wrong and the whole world is just plotting against him. I think he might actually be defined as a psychopath. What he did yesterday is extremely irresponsible, asking for dissolving the parliament without having a majority for that. The only right thing was of the president to deny him that, PM's are not supposed to be able to use this as a weapon onto the parliament.

[Arena]

So, the PM said he wanted to dissolve parliament and hold elections because of the protests, but the president wouldn't let him because he didn't have some piece he's supposed to before he does that, so he bowed to the protests and stepped down and now people are protesting because he didn't dissolve parliament? Shouldn't people be mad at the president too, since he wouldn't let the PM do what they were demanding?
I'm sorry, I'm clearly missing a piece here.

But the real question is what time did the PM step down?

[Arena]

No that is not the right understanding JSAD
People protested and they want the whole government out, not just a change of PM. Other ministers are also connected to offshore hidden companies. So yes, they want to vote... BUT this procedure has to be done right. If parliament is to be dissolved, it is better/cleaner to do so knowing that the majority of MP's support that. And this is not supposed to be in power of the PM alone. The president also has to assess the situation. So he was playing by the rule of democracy by denying it (my view) as he did not have majority for this and the PM had not even spoke to his own MP's nor was he in agreement with his coalition party. The PM is not a dictator here ... he has to bow to the rules of democracy.

The PM did not "bow to the protests" - on the contrary, he tried as he could to talk about what good results the government had and how he had done nothing wrong. He said the protesters did not represent the majority of people here. He is very arrogant. He bowed to the power, his coalition party leader told him that he had to go and let the rest of the government stay. So he did that so the government would keep their power. But he did not resign from his MP post in parliament and he did not resign as leader of his party.

But people do not think this situation is ok... so I am guessing we have not seen the end of this story yet. The opposition still wants their distrust proposal. We are in the midst of political crisis situation.

He did this around 15 - 15.30 yesterday, or that is when it was known to us.

[Arena]

Apr 06, 2016
Ok, things are changing fast. Huge protests still going on today, thousands of people protesting.
Breaking news around 16.30 - we are told that we will get elections in the fall ...until then the government sits tightly. We will know more in the news tonight at 19.

[Arena]

No that is not the right understanding JSAD

I still don't get why people who wanted the government dissolved aren't mad at the president who wouldn't allow the government to be dissolved because of ::some good reason:: but are still mad it wasn't dissolved. Don't worry about it. I have 50 states and several territories here to try to keep up with. Don't really need to add anything else.

He did this around 15 - 15.30 yesterday, or that is when it was known to us.

Thank you.

[Arena]

In case anyone has the slightest interest, here is my public (Facebook) statement on the matter this morning:

Regarding the Panama Papers: (1) I thought they were used for wrapping illegal cigarettes. (2) People who actually pay attention to the world and have some sense of how it works are at a disadvantage. Everybody else gets to be all excited and thrilled and scandalized when somebody discloses, say, that water is wet or that ice is cold. But some of us have known that water is wet for a long time. The only scandal I see here is that anyone past the age of 25 is seriously surprised at the main revelations.

[Arena]

Well in Iceland's case I am not sure you understand the severity of the PM actually owning some of the credits into the banks after the financial crisis, getting elected and then sitting and negotiating with himself among others. And doing this without saying that he or his wife are creditors waiting to get paid. So in Iceland the matter is much bigger than just having money stashed away. So in your statement you seem to belittle the bigger picture, especially in the pm's case.

But the general public also agree that those tax havens are destroying societies and theybdo not want elected officials to be connected to such dubious things. They want everything out in the open, so that they know what they are electing into parliament.

[Arena]

The whole point of the company that was hacked is it helps rich people keep their money legally under the laws of their country. If you don't like that, you should have looked into your PM's finances more closely before you elected him, instead of saying oh, he's an Icelander and Icelanders wouldn't hide money.

You may feel our process takes too long, but by the time we're done, there aren't many secrets to jump out of a dark corner and surprise us.

[Arena]

Apr 07, 2016
Well JSAD, as I said we do not elect the PM, the majority in parliament forms a coalition and government. But he was of course elected into parliament as the leader of his party.

you should have looked into your PM's finances more closely before you elected him

As we both know, this is a bit silly to say, knowing that it is of course impossible when he hides away his finances in a tax haven
And also as we both know, there will always be people in every society who are ready to vote for people, knowing that they have done lots and lots of bad mistakes, so it is like no matter what they do, they get voted again. And some get voted because they are corrupt - by other corrupt people who want to buy themselves an MP. We see it here that a certain percentage of the nation always votes for the same party, it is like they are brought up to do so.

You may feel our process takes too long, but by the time we're done, there aren't many secrets to jump out of a dark corner and surprise us.

Well in my view there is no truth at all in this sentence. It has nothing to do with the length of electoral process. Secrets in dark corners can still exist, if they are well hidden. But your parliament and president is so blatantly bought by big business, that to me it is just appalling (and I am not alone to feel that way). And even though that is done and people do know about that, it is still appalling and I am pretty sure there are lots and lots of dark secrets hidden to the public as well. This is a big thing in the US, but it also happens in other countries and it happens here as well. Although there are a few countries in the world that seem to be a lot less corrupt than others and do not want to tolerate corruption.

[Arena]

I still don't get why people who wanted the government dissolved aren't mad at the president who wouldn't allow the government to be dissolved because of ::some good reason:: but are still mad it wasn't dissolved.

Don't worry, even though your Neptune line goes through Iceland and it would be expected to have a bit of confusion, you are not alone. There is lots of confusion over matters and I believe it is not over yet.
Like I said before, when parliament is dissolved in a democracy, it has to be done by the rules of that democracy. And like I also said, the PM can not act like he is a dictator. The president however, can decide to dissolve parliament IF he evaluates the situation to the point of the parliament being not functioning anymore.

[Arena]

Apr 25, 2016

CAPSOLAR. Saturn squares MC 0°10', and Sun and Mercury are conjoined (2°23' in mundo) just below Descendant. Pluto is also in the setting foreground, in wide but acceptable orb of conjunct Sun. In simple terms, trying not to over-hindsight it: Really bad stuff happens, possibly of economic or other "hard blow" variety, and it's all about or centered on the head of state or the government more generally. There is an "outside the law" and "face the music" feel to it all. - Compare this chart to some of those for Richard Nixon's resignation, included in SMA.

CAPLUNAR. Neptune exactly setting (0°30'), Jupiter closely rising (< 3°). Less clear cut but primarily showing extreme excitement (whether happy or unhappy), such as the insanity of a crowd, whether at a major sporting event or acting as a mob: madness, panic, confusion, uncertainty, disorientation, and a gripping sense of, “So, what happens now?” The added Jupiter would normally make us think it's excitement over good stuff, but the wide Jupiter-Neptune mundane opposition suggests embarrassment ("financial embarrassment" is probably the right interpretation, but wouldn't have been easy to identify in advance); events of powerful inspiration, faith, and idealism; compelling surreal optimism; belief-driven motivation and decision-making (religious-themed); powerful opposing belief and bigotry; and entertainment themes.

My emphasize in bold inside the quotes. A whole lot of embarrassment going on in the people of Iceland these past weeks.
So, like I said before the PM resigned, but there are still two other ministers in his government who also had offshore accounts and they have not resigned and now today we just got news that the President's wife is also linked to the PanamaPapers.

So, the same government is still sitting, just the PM resigned - and the people in the streets and in protesting are calling for new elections, which they have kind of promised will be one year earlier or this fall.

My question to Jim now is, would you predict that we will get parliamentary elections this fall?

[Arena]

Is there any realistic reason to think you wouldn't, since they've been announced? (Is there a particular month "in the fall" that this would be? Before or after mid-October?)

The July 17 Cansolar has Pluto closely setting, with Moon foreground and Sun distantly foreground. I would expect this to show a dramatic severing-shifting (one form of which could be a new government), with a strong populist streak. One uncertainty is that this, alone, could also just be a populist uprising (which would mean no, there are no elections, right?) At the very least, the people are surging with a common group-mind and things need to shake and shift!

The October 17 Libsolar has:
Neptune on MC (2°08')
Saturn on WP (0°56')
Pluto distantly foreground
Moon-Venus op. (2°56' in mundo)
Moon-Saturn op. (3°17' in mundo)

With Saturn and Neptune dominating the angles, this looks like throwing out someone in power, so I'm guessing there will be elections, they will occur after October 17, and the current majority party will be thrown out.

[Arena]

Is there any realistic reason to think you wouldn't, since they've been announced? (Is there a particular month "in the fall" that this would be? Before or after mid-October?)

Oh yes there is a realistic reason that I would ask or that we wouldn't get to vote, and it is the reason that the government has not yet announced a certain date, they are just saying that they will give us elections to try to get some piece to work and to try and stop the protests. They've said that they will let us vote if they will manage to finish all their bills and matters (supposed to take all next year) before that time to ask the opposition to kind of just shut up. So therefore my sound judgement is that it is not certain until it has been lawfully announced. They've said it would be either in September or October.

The July 17 Cansolar has Pluto closely setting, with Moon foreground and Sun distantly foreground. I would expect this to show a dramatic severing-shifting (one form of which could be a new government), with a strong populist streak. One uncertainty is that this, alone, could also just be a populist uprising (which would mean no, there are no elections, right?) At the very least, the people are surging with a common group-mind and things need to shake and shift!

Aha, I see now that I was looking at the wrong chart (for 2017) so I will edit my post above.
Yes well it could possibly be uprising, but I think more likely it is indeed a change of government and that things will shake and shift.

The October 17 Libsolar has:
Neptune on MC (2°08')
Saturn on WP (0°56')
Pluto distantly foreground
Moon-Venus op. (2°56' in mundo)
Moon-Saturn op. (3°17' in mundo)

With Saturn and Neptune dominating the angles, this looks like throwing out someone in power, so I'm guessing there will be elections, they will occur after October 17, and the current majority party will be thrown out.

Ok, sounds pretty good then.

[Arena]

Nov 28, 2016
Update.
So we had elections October 29th.
Some new parties got more MP's into parliament.

The government fell (lost majority), but now it's been a month and a few parties have been discussing to form a government, but it seems to be a difficult process and we do not have a new government yet. The horrible reality seem to be that one of the Panama parties is still the strongest (biggest) party and will probably be in the next (probably right wing) government and majority. The reform parties are simply too stupid to stand together against them, and some of them seem to be ok to include them (there are also strong family and business ties if you ask me).