More Presidential data

[Arena]

Nov 28, 2015
So today I casted the charts for all presidents of my country. I have their birth data, except for the hour of birth, so I do not have the angularity available. The study is for me to look into their luminary placements. I will list their tightest aspects and aspects to luminaries if you have interest in this?

The study has delivered something extraordinary for me. They all have one of their luminaries in Aries, except for one of them who had both luminaries in Aquarius.

1st "president" that was leading the battle for independence, but was not officially elected president, but has always been called the first president and is recognised as such with the country holding his birthday for the national day of independence.
He has Sun in Gemini and Moon in Aries.

2nd president has both Sun and Moon in Aquarius

3rd president has Sun in Aries, Moon in Leo

4th has Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Aries

5th has Aries Sun, Libra Moon

6th has Aries Sun, Leo Moon

[Arena]

The study has delivered something extraordinary for me. They all have one of their luminaries in Aries, except for one of them who had both luminaries in Aquarius.

Fascinating! - There is a lot of Aries Sun dominance in country leadership at the moment, and Aries has long been strong for U.S. Presidents (tied with Virgo for highest).

I'm particularly interested in the Aquarius figure. In the U.S., the only Aquarius Sun presidents have been Washington and Lincoln - both nearly archetypal purity of the presidency in mass mind, and each also known for a distinctly Uranian characteristic: Washington for unflawed truth-telling (it's a lie! <g>) and Lincoln as the Great Emancipator. Is there a similar "archetypal giant figure" about your Aquarian?

There's a lot of power and dignity in the luminary combinations you list.

[Arena]

Actually that Aquarius president is a different kind of president in the minds of all the nation. He did not come about as the others, he was chosen by Althingi (the parliament) and not by the people.

So the story goes like this, the first president was just called our president as we could not yet elect one. He was as stated, the leader of our independence battle and is seen as the first president by the nation, although not elected. His nickname today is Jon the president. The people at that time, and the people of all times since then have held him dear and there is this broad consensus that he is really the first president. Therefore I must count him out of respect.

So the second president (the Aquarius) was chosen by the first parliament. He was a lawyer and an ambassador and was therefore probably seen as an ideal candidate for the parliament to have by it's side making our laws. I don't think there is that kind of "archetypal giant figure" in people's minds about that president. He was simply a man of law.

So all the other ones are elected by the people in democratic elections and did run for the presidency.

[Arena]

So to carry on this little research I wanted to compare those to the country's natal chart, when we formally got our constitution by referendum and independence declared formally that day. It was 17th June 1944, so the natal chart of the country has the same placement of luminaries as that first president, no wonder he is held so dear

The independence gathering was held at Thingvellir and the meeting started at 13.30 that day and official bell ringing and end of the meeting declared at 14.00 so I would guess that is the "birth".

That would make the ASC Virgo (conjunct Neptune) and MC Gemini close to a Saturn-Sun conj. So a Neptune-Saturn aspect is highlighted in the nations destiny and guess what, we are known now in the world for being one of the major players in bringing down the financial system in 2008! But we are also known for having the oldest scripts (sagas) and many many talented musicians and writers and artists.
Moon has a tight aspect to Mars.

[Arena]

...so the natal chart of the country has the same placement of luminaries as that first president [Gemini-Aries]

That would make the ASC Virgo (conjunct Neptune) and MC Gemini close to a Saturn-Sun conj.

Moon has a tight aspect to Mars.

Notice that this is extraordinarily similar to the U.S. natal chart, except with Aquarius Moon instead of Aries.

(Aries Moon square Mars in Cancer? Does this make you the quintessential Icelander?)

So a Neptune-Saturn aspect is highlighted in the nations destiny and guess what, we are known now in the world for being one of the major players in bringing down the financial system in 2008! But we are also known for having the oldest scripts (sagas) and many many talented musicians and writers and artists.

Quite fitting on both counts

[Arena]

Here is my Sidereal list of Dutch Prime Ministers starting 1945. The Netherlands doesn't have Presidents but we have Prime Ministers instead. I could trace the birth times for most of them online.

1. Sun in Sagittarius, Moon in Leo
2. Sun in Pisces, Moon in Taurus
3. Sun in Gemini, Moon in Leo
4. Sun in Leo, Moon in Sagittarius
5. Sun in Uranus, Moon in Uranus or Capricorn (no birth time)
6. Sun in Cancer, Moon in Taurus
7. Sun in Leo, Moon in Aries
8. Sun in Pisces, Moon in Scorpio
9. Sun in Pisces, Moon in Libra
10. Sun in Cancer, Moon in Sagittarius
11. Sun in Capricorn, Moon in Cancer
12. Sun in Aries, Moon in Sagittarius
13. Sun in Virgo, Moon in Scorpio
14. Sun in Aries, Moon in Pisces
15. Sun in Uranus, Moon in Pisces (Mark Rutte, current PM)

As you can see it's quite a mix.
Regards,
Florence

[Arena]

Thanks Florence. Maybe I should check also for the PM's of my country as well, because in reality that position carries more power than the president. Today the presidential role is more like a formal role from old times, but is able to use the power in the constitution if needed. The parliament is of course the law making body, the president just has to sign the law - or turn to the people for a referendum if he is reluctant to sign the law.

So I will study the PM's as well

To just count the statistics in your sample Florence (which is not as obvious as in mine)
Aries 3
Taurus 2
Gemini 1
Cancer 3
Leo 4
Virgo 1
Libra 1
Scorpio 2
Sag 4
Cap 1-2
Aq 2-3
Pisces 5

So Pisces is winner with Sagi and Leo have the most luminaries.
Can you find the natal chart of the nation so we can compare if there is a pattern?

[Arena]

Notice that this is extraordinarily similar to the U.S. natal chart, except with Aquarius Moon instead of Aries.

Indeed there are similarities.

(Aries Moon square Mars in Cancer? Does this make you the quintessential Icelander?)

I guess we could say that if the Moon is the character of the people of a nation
... but I have much more in common with the nation's chart as well, did you notice? My ASC and the nation's MC are almost conjunct and if I start looking into my degrees, the synastry chart would show the Sun-Saturn conj. on my natal Venus-Jupiter and there is a Venus-Venus contact as well. There is a Sun-Pluto mutual aspect. The whole chart actually has most of it's planet's in the same degrees or within 3 from my natal chart AND I also have that Neptune-Saturn angularity and I was very involved (leader at one point) in the whole battle that took place with the banks and government after the ec.crash! Maybe there is a reason (astrologically) that I feel such a responsibility to this country that I ran for political positions!

So a Neptune-Saturn aspect is highlighted in the nations destiny and guess what, we are known now in the world for being one of the major players in bringing down the financial system in 2008! But we are also known for having the oldest scripts (sagas) and many many talented musicians and writers and artists.

Quite fitting on both counts

Yes it is quite fitting and I was thinking about this some more. The strong connection the people of this country have to an "imaginary" world might be explained by that angular Neptune. People from other places might think it is funny, but there is very high % of people here that believe in elfs and have told stories that they've actually seen them and played with them as children. We have 13 Santa Clauses that bring presents to our children every day for those 13 days before Christmas in the make-believe-world between parents and children not just one. And there is a lot of people that believe in "the unknown" world and connection to another world/dimension.

[Arena]

Thanks Arena for your observations on my results.

You asked for the natal chart. I like to explore further what actually the birth of a nation is. You describe today's Iceland from 1944 but Iceland as a country with icelandic people and an icelandic culture exists much longer. The same applies to the Netherlands. Today the Netherlands that started as Holland was always occupied until the provinces and cities joined forces. Resulting in a united Holland on June 24, 1593 which lasted for about 200 years. Then the country became a part of the French republic until 1850, then becoming the united kingdom of the Netherlands which was including the current Belgium. The kingdom of the Netherlands was formed oct 4, 1830 in Brussels Belgium. So a lot of confusion from an astrological point of view I get back to you, give me some time

[Arena]

Yes I know Florence, it is very difficult to assess a "birth" of a nation. But I think that most of the time astrologers go for the most recent "declaration" of independence and a "birth" of a constitution, since that is a point in history that a nation is born or reborn.

You are indeed right, people came to Iceland in 874, but they came from Norway, so therefore they were Norvegian at the time. They did of course form their own rules and such, and they formed their "parliament" in Thingvellir in 930 - so that could possibly also be seen as "a nation being born". But you see we were under Danish rule and the King of Denmark (although people here did not feel Danish nor agree to that). So we had to follow the Danish constitution and laws until we declared our own independence.

It's like in the US. We can also say there is no US but for the Indians. They are the ones who came there first and had their own rules and had built the country. It is of course just a silly lie that Columbus "discovered" America. There was even an Icelandic man called Leif the lucky, who discovered it before Columbus. But he didn't settle there. He discovered America first of all Europeans around 1000 (we have that reported in our old sagas). But we do look at the US birth chart from the day that US got their constitution. That was a kind of "rebirth" of the new nation. The same goes for Iceland - it can be seen as a "rebirth" moment in time.

Maybe Jim and others can help us to assess a nation's "birth" moment

When did Netherlands make their own constitution?

If that is how a nation is "born" we would also have to ask ourselves if a nation will be "reborn" if they settle for a new constitution, is they change it in profound ways so that their life take a new course (like when two individuals get married).

[Arena]

I just looked up the date of your constitution Florence, and I see we are also talking about the people of Netherlands decided as a "new" nation to have a democracy with parliament. You decided as a nation to take the power away from the kingdom. This happened in 1848. Then there is a kind of "rebirth" when it is majorly revised and you declare a capital in 1983.

A revision in 1848 instituted a system of parliamentary democracy. In 1983 a major revision of the constitution was undertaken in which the text of the constitution was modernized and new civil rights were added, along with a number of other changes (e.g. abolishing the death penalty under all circumstances and officially naming Amsterdam as the capital).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitut ... etherlands

We as a nation tried to do this a few years ago, we even had a referendum with a yes vote from the nation, but the parliament ignored those results and the will of the people. So there was "crisis" here in a wider sense after the ec. crash when that nation's birth chart had the Uranus-Pluto square angular.