synastry wheels

[Freya]

Apr 27, 2013
What would be the best wheel representation for a synastry chart? By this I mean, is there a particular way that siderealists draw biwheels for synastry charts?
If there is I would very much appreciate a visual example, as it would make it clearer for me to understand it.
Thanks

[Freya]

I thought I'd post some dates for the visual example...

Female Chart: Born on Sept 22nd 1983 in Costanta, Romania at 10:25 am

Male Chart: Born on Aug 18th 1983 at 12:07 pm in Pistoia, Italy


Thanks

[Freya]

No particular way. Sometimes I want the charts side by side. Other times, I alternate between putting A on the outside of B (as a standard two-ring chart), and then B on the outside of A. (Solar Fire makes it easy to click one Swap button and go back and forth between those two views.)

The idea of the two-ring approach is that we get to see how the relationship works from each person's separate point of view, i.e., as if it were a transit chart for them in the moment.

PS - I can't find a Costanta, Romania. 'm guessing you mean Constanta, yes?

[Freya]

In the example you gave, the Ascendants are near each other, so the charts don't seem TOO different viewed both ways. But the two-wheel display still brings out all the habits and reflexes we're used to in viewing transit "event" rings around natal charts. The real standout, when looking at it this way, is that both have the same Saturn-Pluto conjunction, but it's only on the Ascendant of the woman's chart. She has the Saturn-Pluto rising (and Mars at the Midheaven) from birth, and "lives in a world" where Mars paran Saturn-Pluto is her basic reality. He... less so. He has the aspect, but it's away from the angles. It's not that he can't see the traits in himself, but they aren't the be-all and end-all of his experience of the world. OTOH, from her point of view, his presence just reinforces her world-view - it's Saturn-Pluto double-up on her Ascendant and, besides, there's some basis for her observation because he actually has Saturn-Pluto traits, albeit not as demandingly as hers.

The first thing that occurs to me from this is that she sees life as demanding, with burdens to be constantly taken on, and can't understand why he seems to be shirking these. One more example of a woman having to carry all the weight, right?

In fact, though he has these carry-the-load traits, they aren't his main window on the world. Click the Swap button, and we see that he has Venus near the Midheaven, as part of a partile Venus-Mars conjunction. He also has Saturn (more widely) foreground, but not the Pluto. He's capable of working hard, has undergone emotional hardship probably, but mostly sees life as play. (Or perhaps, "do your chores early, then have your time for play.)

He's a Virgo-Pisces. She's a Leo-Sagittarius. View these luminaries through their primary angular planets, and I bet the characters lay themselves out.

Those are the first impressions. Now let's go back and do the closer inspection. Hitting the Swap button to put her chart on the inside, I want to look at some highlights from his planets.

She has a very close Moon-Neptune conjunction. He, of course, has Neptune right on top of these, and it squares his Sun. He is Sun-Neptune (background), she's Moon-Neptune (background). And this, of course, is part of his Sun being partile square her Moon. The Sun-Moon is an excellent draw and foundation. We observe, though, that they are both Neptunian, and are Neptunian in different ways; that there is a very strong, magnetic, mating draw, and that Neptune is inescapably part of it; and that, again, they are both prone to see their own traits in the other, except "not quite right," etc.

The biggest aid to their relationship would be to get how much they are like each other and yet different. To feel the companionship and identity, and also the mystery. Use mystery as the way to express the Neptune, and be in wonder about it. Be really really good at seeing their own projections so that they don't have the acute vulnerability of being constantly let down and disappointed by the other. (They are both prone to feeling constantly let down, betrayed, disappointed. They can use witnessing their own projections as the tool to grow past that with each other.)

And his partile Venus-Mars conjunction is on her Sun. Read these aspects. It should also describe a significant part of their relationship.

[Freya]

PS - I can't find a Costanta, Romania. 'm guessing you mean Constanta, yes?

yes, sorry, that was a typo

would using two musdoscopes be recommended, or is it unnecessary to look at them in a biwheel?

Thank you for the interpretation, I am going to read it a few times so that the method sinks in. (She's the Viro-Pisces BTW)

[Freya]

Thank you very much again Jim, I have just thoroughly read your interpretation, and from my experience of the two of them, it is very accurate. The woman is my best friend. Were I to do a synastry chart with me (I have not attempted interpretation yet, I am still learning to interpret natal charts ) how differently would you interpret a synastry between friends? Would certain difficult aspects between lovers be less relevant between friends?

The inner ring is my friend's the outer is mine. I assume this style chart is ok?

[Freya]

would using two musdoscopes be recommended, or is it unnecessary to look at them in a biwheel?

I wouldn't recommend two mundoscopes, no. I've tried several times to show this sort of comparison working, and I've never been able to make a case. Biwheel (especially looking at it both ways) would be preferred.

[Freya]

Thank you Jim. Would the biwheel I posted, looked at it both way, be adequate for these purposes? (By this I mean having two wheels with different house cusps and signs for each person)

[Freya]

Were I to do a synastry chart with me (I have not attempted interpretation yet, I am still learning to interpret natal charts ) how differently would you interpret a synastry between friends? Would certain difficult aspects between lovers be less relevant between friends?

Substantially the same, but with different emphases. Difficult aspects would be less relevant only in the sense that an intimate romantic-sexual relationship is a different kind of pressure cooker than other types of relationships.

I don't like your wheel because it retains the cusps of the outer chart as well, and this loses much of the effect of "look at it as if it were transits." However, ultimately, that's a matter of personal taste and, if it works for you, then it works.

[Freya]

Thank you Jim, I understand what you mean now. It's the same biwheel used in solar returns. I'd rather learn it right the first time than having to unlearn something that may not work

It's not that this "won't work" - that's a matter of personal taste / choice, and there's no need to be rigid about it. I'm just saying that this way of looking at it leverages all the other habits, reflexes, instincts, etc. that one has accumulated in looking at transit wheels, progressions, return charts, etc.

[Freya]

.....it relies on the principle that the basic technique of interpretation is the same, right?

I wouldn't go that far, no. For example, if you tried to apply the rules for reading a lunar return to this, you'd get certain accurate conclusions but also miss a lot.

[Freya]

The my friend has suffered from severe bulimia, can this be seen in Saturn-Pluto foreground, or is it a manifestation of some other aspect?

The rising Saturn could be part of it - certainly a capacity for deprivation and more. I don't have a lot of charts of bulimics, so I can't speak with certainty.

What catches my eye is the Virgo-Pisces. I've known a lot of Pisces Moons with weird stuff around food. Some types of Virgos "eat like a bird." The Venus-Mars conjunction at the Midheaven speaks to sensuality but, if there is an anxiety and general neurotic element attached, this could contribute to some of the psychological characteristics of bulimia (at least, as I understand them). The bottom line, though, is that I don't have an empirical basis on which to answer this.

[Freya]

If anyone wants to do a research project... Astro Databank has about 500 entries for people who were bulimic at one time or another. It would be a service for someone to extract this data, set up the charts in a chart folder in Solar Fire, and share the folder.

I did a spot check of the first page of names that came up (9 names). No strong patterns emerge, but here are some observations:

Of the 9, 5 have Spoke Suns (2 Geminis, 2 Pisceans), and there was only 1 Rim Sun. Only 1 has a Hub Moon (there being four Rims - a mix of all four Rim signs - and four Spokes, of which three were Virgo).

There was no loud pattern in foreground planets, but I did notice that, of the 9 charts, Saturn and Mercury both failed to be foreground a single time. Neptune only was foreground once. There was a slight preference for foreground Jupiter ahead of the others (but this could be the celebrity factor).

This is far too small a group, but I thought I'd mention the things that were there.

[Freya]

If anyone wants to do a research project... Astro Databank has about 500 entries for people who were bulimic at one time or another. It would be a service for someone to extract this data, set up the charts in a chart folder in Solar Fire, and share the folder.

Virgo moon here may be able to do this between work and law school. What is the link for astro databank for this data?

[Freya]

http://www.astro.com/wiki/astro-databan ... ch=bulimia