Is Pluto really a Planet?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:23 pm by StarAgeWiz
On August 24, 2006, the general assembly of the International Astronomers Union
finally agreed its long overdue definition of a "planet." Planets must fulfill three criteria: they have to orbit the sun, have enough mass to be spherical and to have "cleared the neighborhood" around their orbit. Pluto only managed the forst two, so was demoted to the status of "dwarf planet".

Pluto is much smaller than all the other planets, a fifth the mass of the Moon, and smaller than seven of the moons of other planets. It isn't much larger than its own main moon, Charon. Pluto's orbit is eccentric and on a different plane to the other planets, and its composition is completely different. Pluto is a tiny ball of ice-one of at least sixty thousand small, comet like objects forming the Kuiper belt right on the edge of the solar system.

Another "dwarf planet' named Eris, discovered in 2005 , is actually larger than Pluto.

So, do "dwarf planets" have influence of the human psyche? If so the what about Eris?

Reconsidering Pluto's place in the scheme of astrology seems to me to be a worthy topic of discussion.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:33 pm by Jim Eshelman
There is no easier astrological factor to prove than the efficacy of Pluto.

Watch Pluto's transits in conjunction, opposition, or square to natal Sun and Moon, and it's crossing of the natal angles. These stand out dramatically, as decisive turning points, against the background of one's life.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:19 am by DDonovanKinsolving
StaAgeWiz:

To add to Mr. E's reply, the same should be said in regards to Eris. Fagan's quotidian-style progressions of the natus and SSRs provide quick and simple ways of assessing whether it (or any new planet) had any influence/meaning, and if so what it would be, as Fagan himself once pointed out. Additionally, it is well known that progressed conjunctions and oppositions of the SSR Moon are very effective, so those with SSR Moons in late Virgo and Pisces are candidates.

Internet forums like this are ideal for pooling research data and detailing cases. I'm interested in oddities in astrology, so we have here an opportunity for ground-breaking investigation. Fagan advocated his methods for discovering the true nature of any newly-discovered planet, and dismissed using its accidental name. (See, for example, Richard Tarnas' contention that Uranus seems more like the mythical Prometheus than the mythical Ouranos - and Uranus' meaning was derived largely by observation.) Yet, the latter method is what completely dominates discussions of the new planetary bodies: the Centaurs, the Oort bodies, the scads of asteroids, etc.

As a side-note, I have always been wary of people reporting results of their progression research because of replication issues, particularly when summarized broadly in a book. I always ask myself questions like, "What's the birthdata?", "What progression method did they use?", "Is it calculated by a method that I trust?", even "Can this person do math?".

Bringing the two preceding paragraphs together, I propose we - the general Solunars community - set about answering StarAgeWiz's question. Let's compile and report, with birthdata, event details, date/time/location, and method (SSR, PSSR, whatever). Events as well as general mood or way of thinking would also be relevant.

Just an idea. What do y'all think? Is there interest?

-Derek

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:46 pm by gmugmble
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:
Bringing the two preceding paragraphs together, I propose we - the general Solunars community - set about answering StarAgeWiz's question. Let's compile and report, with birthdata, event details, date/time/location, and method (SSR, PSSR, whatever). Events as well as general mood or way of thinking would also be relevant.
Just an idea. What do y'all think? Is there interest?

Everybody jumped on this right away, huh? (If the "general Solunars community" -- all half-dozen or so of us -- can't get a conversation going, then there doesn't seem to be much hope for the sidereal cause.)

I've actually been pondering your proposal off and on for the past few days, but I'm not sure what sort of data we can be providing that will be useful. If we compile a list of "Here's an aspect with Pluto (or Eris) and here's an event that happened at the same time", what will it show? Not only do "events happen" (to paraphrase a slogan that was popular on bumper stickers and fishing caps a few years ago), but events happen constantly, so whatever is going on with Pluto, there's bound to be some event occurring at the same time.

On the other hand, maybe a pattern will appear in the kind of events we find. Maybe they'll strikingly often involve the literal or figurative underground, or symbolically suggest the wresting of fire from the gods, or -- heck, for all we know -- surprisingly often have something to do with ice cream or the number 43 or people named Louise.

So I'm game, but maybe you could suggest more concretely the kinds of facts people can be giving.

[By the way, where are you located? I observe that at the time of your post in Washington state where I live, Pluto was culminating and square Mercury rising, as if Pluto wanted a mouthpiece through which to speak. ]

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:28 pm by DDonovanKinsolving
gmugmble wrote:
Everybody jumped on this right away, huh?

Yeah, I noticed!
gmugmble wrote:
...maybe a pattern will appear in the kind of events we find.

Well, I thought that went without saying.
gmugmble wrote:
...but maybe you could suggest more concretely the kinds of facts people can be giving.

Since that's exactly what we're trying to find out, it's illogical to place an a priori restriction on the kind of event. We should be looking, as with all other planets, for something that really stands out, what makes it noteworthy. If Mars is rising in a quotidian and one is caught in a house fire, what's more relevant ... the fire at that time or the street address one has living in for 10 years?

Yes, then maybe a pattern would emerge from the mass of reports, a common thread of meaning helping us to arrive at core ideas.

gmugmble wrote:
I observe that at the time of your post in Washington state where I live, Pluto was culminating and square Mercury rising, as if Pluto wanted a mouthpiece through which to speak.

Being born with Mercury square Pluto, I live with that all the time. Maybe the transit just made it easier to express. (I'd insert the red-eyed grinning emoticon here if I knew how to do it. Believe me, I used to be worse!)

StarAgeWiz wrote:
Reconsidering Pluto's place in the scheme of astrology seems to me to be a worthy topic of discussion.

Or reconsidering Ceres' importance.

Regards to all,
Derek

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:05 pm by Jim Eshelman
I wouldn't want to guage the future of the "Sidereal cause" on whether or not people want to investigate a trans-Plutonian planet with Quotidians - which, since it can wander quite far from the ecliptic, makes it a long, tedious job to do even one instance.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:21 am by Jim Eshelman
I will add, though, that late tonight (late April 6, wee hours of April 7), my SQ Moon exactly opposes SSR Eris at 26 Pisces 11.

Should anything significant happen, I'll let you know; though there are several things already in motion in my life which key in extremely well to the Demi-SSR also setting up tomorrow. The Demi-SSR will setup outside my general residence and then I'll be returning to LA within 24 hours, so the emphasis is changed a bit - but, broadly speaking, it has transiting Uranus and natal Moon near the MC, transiting Mars rising, and transiting Pluto setting. Any effect from Eris that might exist wouldn't be visible unless highly distinguishable from a Mars-Uranus-Pluto mix. (The emphasis at normal residence of mostly on transiting Uranus; for where I'll be when it sets up, that's slipped a bit and transiting Mars is a little more to the fore.)

The Demi-SSR Moon I would normally consider only partile opposition to my Neptune but, while we're on the track of trans-Plutonians, I should mention that it is only a few minutes from conjunct my natal Sedna.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:22 pm by DDonovanKinsolving
Jim Eshelman wrote:
I will add, though, that late tonight (late April 6, wee hours of April 7), my SQ Moon exactly opposes SSR Eris at 26 Pisces 11.
Thank you, Jim, for volunteering as the first test-case with Eris using Sidereal methods.
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:
gmugmble wrote:
...but maybe you could suggest more concretely the kinds of facts people can be giving.
Since that's exactly what we're trying to find out, it's illogical to place an a priori restriction on the kind of event.
and
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Any effect from Eris that might exist wouldn't be visible unless highly distinguishable from a Mars-Uranus-Pluto mix.

Mr. gmugble was asking for a positive assertion of characteristics for Eris, and I was content to leave it as a total unknown. However, the esteemed Mr. E implicitly reminds us all of something that perhaps ought to be stated explicitly: that Eris' "effect" (if it has one at all) must be non-Sun, non-Moon, ..., non-Pluto; so the field is not totally open. A Planet X must have a psychological space that is not identical with, and sufficiently distinguishable from, that of known planets. So we should be on the lookout for matters, issues and qualities not fully or reasonably accounted for by the known natures of any other planets involved, or unusual modifications of known planetary expressions.
Not too helpful, perhaps, but I don't know more than anyone else, I'm afraid. This is where we have to be observant and open-minded.

Regards to all,
Derek

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:56 pm by StarAgeWiz
Even though Pluto has been relegated to planetoid status (something between an asteroid & planet?) by many prominent astronomers does not negate of course Pluto's astrological influence. Therefore Eris, Ceres must also exert astrological characteristics to add to the human evolutionary spiral in mind and spirit .......or other undeveloped aspects of our subconscious minds...................whimsical thinking,,:-)

Mike

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Posted Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:06 pm by SteveS
Mike, I could be mistaken but it seems I remember Alfred Witte of the Hamburg school, also know as the Uranian school, used in their system of astrology the ‘asteroid/planetoid’ Eris and Ceres with their psychological delineations.

Regards, Steve