Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Jim wrote:

I don't think any candidate can beat Trump without a Taurus-Scorpio or Cancer-Capricorn luminary. Of the top candidates, that means only Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg.

Then, by your most excellent historical sign research with US Presidents, the Dem Candidate will not be Bernie. No matter, whoever the Dem Nominee--he will more than likely win vs Trump with the symbolism in the 2020 Libsolar. This means to me if Bloomberg does not win a State in Mar 3 Super Primary, probabilities we can probably eliminate him form the Dem List. Then this leaves Buttigieg with the best Sign Probabilities along with historical evidence if Buttigieg wins of first or second place in NH Primary has never failed to win Dem Primary. How to you feel or see Buttigieg fairing in the Mar 3 Super Primary? Are there any early polls in California offering you how Buttigieg will do vs Bloomberg or Bernie?

Or, are you saying if Bernie becomes Dem Nominee, high probability he can't win vs Trump?

SteveS wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:19 am Then, by your most excellent historical sign research with US Presidents, the Dem Candidate will not be Bernie.

Or he or she won't win. (Though Trump winning remains highly unlikely, I agree.)

This means to me if Bloomberg does not win a State in Mar 3 Super Primary, probabilities we can probably eliminate him form the Dem List.

I've begun to think Bloomberg is playing an entirely different game. He may be positioning himself to step in and run if it's really called for but, mostly I think he's playing a different game: Unlike the other candidates, he isn't participating in the early contests so he's not campaigning against them - not taking any shots at any of them - but campaigning only against Trump. This lets him spend his personal fortune to make large the issues of climate change, gun control, health coverage, etc. AND take constant shots at Trump and the need to remove him. This is enormously positive to whoever gets the nomination later.

There is also psychological warfare involved. Bloomberg is saturating all TV networks with his ads. Trump is well-known to get almost all his information from TV an to watch it most of the day. We're already getting reports leaked from the White House that Trump is in meltdown because he can't watch TV anymore - any channel without getting non-stop Bloomberg ads tearing at him.

Bloomberg has one big astrological problem: his Aquarius Sun. America doesn't elect Aquarius luminaries except Washington and Lincoln. I think we probably won' elect another Aquarian unless he or she will take the place in history and stature of Washington and Lincoln.

Then this leaves Buttigieg with the best Sign Probabilities along with historical evidence if Buttigieg wins of first or second place in NH Primary has never failed to win Dem Primary. How to you feel or see Buttigieg fairing in the Mar 3 Super Primary? Are there any early polls in California offering you how Buttigieg will do vs Bloomberg or Bernie?

Pete is complicated. Conventional wisdom is that he hasn't won support from people of color and that's a gigantic weakness in running. He is heading toward Saturn's conjunction with his Sun - a gigantic aspect of enormous import. This aspect can go two ways, usually showing as loss but sometimes showing as a life-peak "destiny moment" (more simply, a readiness to assume enormous responsibility). I think we have no way of interpreting this without watching him. If he wins first or second spot in New Hampshire, he remains strongly in the running. we then watch and see whether his campaign crumbles or thrives under the exact Saturn transit to his Sun. If he survives that in a strong position, then I read that as the whole universe is behind him and he flies through the election on a large victory wave. Otherwise, it takes him down.

Or, are you saying if Bernie becomes Dem Nominee, high probability he can't win vs Trump?

I'm pretty confident that if Bernie gets the nomination, Trump gets another term and the outcome of the "overthrow" symbolism is the overthrow of the U.S. government as we've known it for over two centuries.

Jim wrote:

I'm pretty confident that if Bernie gets the nomination, Trump gets another term and the outcome of the "overthrow" symbolism is the overthrow of the U.S. government as we've known it for over two centuries.

But we are living in "interesting" times.

I agree with Jim. If Bernie gets the nomination, or won't back off (like he wouldn't with Hillary) Trump wins and the US government ceases to exist at least till he gets sick or dies or something, and then we still have McConnell and Barr who will have been consolidating power, to deal with.
Bernie is not a Democrat and shouldn't be allowed in the Democratic primaries. It's not about "a big tent." It's about if you're not a Democrat, stop trying to use the Democratic party to fund your agenda.

Since I made so firm a statement, I should qualify it by saying there have been exceptions in the "dance of the constellations" over the years. I don't think those exceptions apply here, but they are worth mentioning.

Washington and Lincoln were singular stand-outs. They are almost in a world of their own (although their Moon-signs were inherited and passed along by their successors).

Some unusual behavior has come from a Vice President who inherited the presidency due to a president's death, particularly Theodore Roosevelt. The pattern would continue to operate very well if Roosevelt were dropped out. History regards him as a political anomaly that fell into the presidency unexpectedly, so his anomalous astrological pattern isn't surprising.

William Henry Harrison doesn't fit at all, but he was only president a few weeks. His VP, John Tyler, is a perfect fit. One could argue that he was elected for the sole purpose of delivering Tyler to the presidency. (Historians would sorta kinda agree.)

But there is no such explanation for the single clearest exception, his grandson Benjamin Harrison. At most, he can be regarded as the interruption between Grover Cleveland's two non-adjacent terms.

After the generation of FDR as president and the ordeals of the Depression and the War, Harry Truman was a clean break, starting something entirely new - an "Act III" of the country - that began the modern presidency.

Finally, there have been two examples where squares instead of conjunction-opposition were the pattern, but these were not so unusual in their context. One was the rivalry and successive presidencies of John Quincy Adams (Gemini-Sagittarius) and Andrew Jackson (Pisces-Virgo). Each was a polarity pair of luminary signs and these signs were as close to an opposition of each other as could e - the "second harmonic" of the existing, defining opposition. The other was the Gemini-Virgo face-off of Ford and Carter. I do not think either of these endorses squares as an alternative - they were special cases. Trump is a Taurus-Scorpio polarity so I could see a Leo-Aquarius (parallel Adams-Jackson) but not just a Leo, for example.

Also like Roosevelt, can we consider that Trump is an isolated anomaly? That's a dangerous assumption. For one thing, he arises from direct inheritance, his Sun-sign being conjunct and his Moon-sign opposite Obama's Taurus Moon.

Anyway, thought I should make things more complete with those exceptions. BTW, if Trump's health gives out, Mike Pence would be his successor, with a Taurus Sun. If it's early enough, then Pence's Gemini Moon expands the range to include Warren (Gemini Sun) as a viable successor.

Jim wrote:

Pete is complicated. Conventional wisdom is that he hasn't won support from people of color and that's a gigantic weakness in running. He is heading toward Saturn's conjunction with his Sun - a gigantic aspect of enormous import. This aspect can go two ways, usually showing as loss but sometimes showing as a life-peak "destiny moment" (more simply, a readiness to assume enormous responsibility). I think we have no way of interpreting this without watching him. If he wins first or second spot in New Hampshire, he remains strongly in the running. we then watch and see whether his campaign crumbles or thrives under the exact Saturn transit to his Sun. If he survives that in a strong position, then I read that as the whole universe is behind him and he flies through the election on a large victory wave. Otherwise, it takes him down.

Excellent observation Jim!!!

JSAD wrote:

I agree with Jim. If Bernie gets the nomination, or won't back off (like he wouldn't with Hillary) Trump wins...

Observations: Most of the talking heads on the R/L wing news Media are saying no way Bernie beats Trump, including some of the wise Dem Party insiders like James Carville. I have never seen the Reps so confident for Trump winning a second term. I see the Reps way overconfident Trump is a shoe-in for a second term!!! In 2016 the consensus in the weekly poker game I attend said: No way Trump beats Hillary for Prez. Now in 2020 the consensus in the poker game are saying: No way Bernie if Dem Candidate wins vs Trump.

I really don't understand this consensus logic from both the R/L wing media sources Bernie will be doomed for winning Prez if he is Dem Nominee. I can only guess the consensus media is saying this about Bernie because of Bernie's Socialists policies. But here is my fundamental election logic about Bernie vs Trump, not astrological logic: Many of the talking heads on Left Media told me in 2016 Hillary was hurt in 2016 Prez election because Bernie's supporters hated Hillary and felt Hillary cheated their man Bernie, Bernie supporters stayed home and did not vote in 2016 Prez election, true or not true? There were 3 million more voters who voted for Hillary than Trump. Combined with Bernie's supporters in 2020 voting for Bernie in 2020 for Prez with the other angered 3 million more Dem voters than Rep voters absolutely hating Trump voting for Bernie, this indicates to me a huge SLEEPING mad bulldog chomping at the bit to vote against Trump-- no matter what Bernie's policies are. I think the consensus thinking about Bernie not winning vs Trump from the media is seriously flawed! My fundamental election logic tells me Bernie is the best Dem Candidate to upset Trump for Prez. Isn't the main objective of the Dem Party as a whole to beat Trump no matter who the Nominee????

Please tell me with specifics where my fundamental election logic here for Bernie winning Prez is flawed.

The question of the year is whether more new Democratic voters can be foind this year by veering center to got moderate-right cross-overs against Trump, or veerinv far left to get the Bernie supporters.

I don't know which is the better move right now. I want to use the primaries to test this and see who showa up to vote.

The biggest POTENTIAL flaw in your thinking is that the loudest Bernie supporters are demographics that usually don't vote at all (not just 2016). We have no evidence (yet) that they'll actually show up to vote this year.

South Carolina will be the best test. More on that later.

Jim wrote:

I don't know which is the better move right now. I want to use the primaries to test this and see who showa up to vote.

Yes, I think your observation here is important--how many Dem voters show-up in the Dem Primaries. I think 2020 NH Dem Primary may set a record and narrowly break 2008 record for Obama.

I haven't seen the numbers - were they above average? That would be really encouraging since Iowa was about 25% below expectation.

I wanted to add that South Carolina will be an interesting test of what's happening on the ground. There are important, distinctive dynamics in South Carolina. One is that the Democratic primary is very heavily black voters. The other is that the primaries are "open," meaning anyone can vote in them, not just registered party members; and there is no Republican primary this year. With the latter point, there are multiple reports that Trump very much wants Bernie as his opponent (the way Nixon wanted McGovern as his opponent) and has a ground plan (like Nixon had) to get Republicans to "cross-over" and vote in Democratic primaries, voting for Bernie. South Carolina is a perfect setup for that.

Based on these considerations, we might be able to read quite a lot from the South Carolina results.

BIDEN: It's his best state to do super well, especially before Super Tuesday. If he wins, he remains viable and a serious force a few days later on Super Tuesday. If he does really poorly, then he's probably out of the running with no legs to stand on (but no reason to say so until Super Tuesday is over). If he does so-so... I'm not sure what that means.

BUTTIGIEG: His biggest weakness is that it seems the black vote is not with him, and that's a huge part of the Democratic Party. He's expected to do badly and, if he does, then he's on his way out. If he does even moderately well, that means he's overcoming his biggest weakness and has a serious chance. There's no current expectation he'll do really well.

SANDERS: There is no current reasonable expectation Bernie will do well in South Carolina. It would be a shock if he beat Biden, for example. One would immediately expect another factor at play. If Bernie indeed does really well in SC, then it's a near-certainty that there is indeed a Republican ground game to distort the election by setting up Trump's preferred opponent by supporting Bernie in the primaries and Trump in the general.

The following post is only based on my expectations with a possible high probability Bernie is Dem Nominee and wins the Prez. If Bernie is not Dem Nominee my thinking/opinions in this post/thread are obviously flawed/meaningless/garbage!

Due to certain new Business interests which has developed in my retired boring life in the last couple of weeks, I have been somewhat forced to watch more closely the political news being spooned fed to their audiences from the Right and Left wing media sources pertaining to Elections 2020. As a rule I don't watch/listen to political news except when it may affect my bank account one way or another pertaining to a Prez Election. My main interest is what the results of the 2020 Prez election may or may not do to certain markets with possibility Bernie is elected by the people-- Prez. My business success will depend on if I am reading the symbolism in this Libsolar correctly, only pertaining to the results of the Prez election on Nov 3, and how it may or may not affect the markets the day after the election results are known and/or for only the remaining days of election week.

Since Jim and JSAD are Democratic Political activists more closely attuned to certain political stuff than I, I want to listen carefully to their opinions and data even if it doesn't agree with my take. But there are things which are becoming more clear to me by watching political news: The Democratic Party may become high-jacked with Bernie winning Dem Nominee/Prez. And it has become obvious to me the talking heads on the Left-Wing media sources do not like Bernie—they feel if Bernie becomes the Dem Nominee, the Dem Party is doomed to lose elections to the Reps in November Elections. The talking heads from the Right-Wing media sources are confident if Bernie wins Dem Nominee, the Rep Party trounces the Dem Party in Nov elections---and the political news beat goes on and on and on, with what is in my opinion over produced half-truths to satisfy any type audience that is viewing or listening to their networks. Bottom line for the News outlets is $, and for sure the News outlets and their Producers must keep their audiences supplied with what they want to hear in order for news networks to profit.

So I am seeing a most unique news reporting situation from both the Right-Wing and Left-Wing Media sources: If Bernie wins Dem Nominee the Nov election is already over---the Reps win BIG! But as a Sidereal Mundane Astrologer knowing it is a very important branch of Astrology with important 'outstanding incidents' foretold when the event is already known to be scheduled with TIME---the Election---I am starring at a Uranus-Pluto Paran in the 2020 Libsolar quarter, which tells me (IMO) there is high probability an unexpected (Uranus) stunning/shocking (Pluto) event related to this Nov Prez Election will unfold with election results.

Through a link in this thread Jim provided, James Carville, a wise old guard for the Democratic Party known by us old enough to remember, flat out says I think, if Bernie becomes the Dem Nominee/Prez it will create/manifest a political Revolution. Uranus-Pluto is par-excellent symbolism for any kind Revolution! James Carville feels the same as the talking heads from Left Wing media sources, the Dem Party is doomed to election Party failures if Bernie is Dem Nominee. IMO, both the Right-Wing and Left Wing news outlets are dead wrong and are setting their viewers up for a totally unexpected stunning/shocking result in 2020 Nov election by telling their viewers there is no way Bernie Sanders, a long time declared Socialist can win Prez vs Trump. So, if Trump wins vs Bernie, more than likely that will not be a Uranus-Pluto unexpected/stunning/shocking featured in the 2020 Libsolar. This Libsolar is the most interesting/important Sidereal Mundane Astrology chart I have ever analyzed relative to my personal life, and a most important Prez election in 2020 relative to a deeply political divided Nation .

SteveS wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:15 am Since Jim and JSAD are Democratic Political activists

I can't speak for Jim but I am NOT a Democratic Political activist. I'm not a Democrat, and I'm not any kind of an "activist." I've told you this privately and publically more than once.
What I am, right now, is more than a little annoyed.

Sorry JSAD, forgive my senior moment about you being a political activist. It seems I remember in the 2016 election you were helping people who needed help to get to the polls and vote for Hillary--correct? Please correct me if my memory is in error. So, I am sorry about my mistaken assumption you were a Democratic activist.

I've told you this privately and publically more than once.

Not that I remember!!!

I posted this in this very thread!

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:17 pm You know I'm a Goldwater Republican, right?

I'm your age, Steve. Phooey on your "senior moments."

I was driving anyone who needed a ride to the polls. Nothing to do with Hillary.

Please stop calling me a Democrat and stop calling me an "activist" because I drive people who need a ride to the polls. Geeze.

I don't need another apology. I need you to stop doing this.

JSAD wrote:

Phooey on your "senior moments."

I am seriously jealous of your non-senior moments and next time I want bother you with any apologies since you have not accepted my original apology because of my forgetfulness . I will stop this and do my best not to forget things again. I now understand how you have taken offense to my posts about my miss-understandings about your political persuasions. As I have told you before, I seriously learn from you with your political understandings which are much better than my non-political background.

SteveS wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:47 pm I now understand how you have taken offense to my posts about my miss-understandings about your political persuasions. As I have told you before, I seriously learn from you with your political understandings which are much better than my non-political background.

Part of an apology is not doing the same thing again.
I'm glad to be able to help you, but I don't like your claimin I'm something I most decidedly am not.

The Right Wing Media is now getting scared their man Trump will be running against Bloomberg. They are trying to destroy Bloomberg with slanderous material. The Right Wing wants desperately for their man Trump to run against Bernie for Prez.

The more it is becoming apparent the voters are choosing Bernie as the Dem Nominee, the more the Right Wing Media is becoming over-confident Trump will trounce Bernie for Prez. IMO, this could be playing into the hands of the heavens with the Uranus-Pluto Paran in the 2020 Libsolar for an unexpected (Uranus) stunning/shocking (Pluto) results of the Prez Election with Bernie winning.

Even the Left Wing Media is not giving Bernie a chance vs Trump for Prez.

I'm new to the forum, but not to astrology.

I see repeated references to Libsolar and Capsolar...
What do these terms mean?

I'm assuming the sun's entry into the cardinal signs...
Please advise

Bob Oz wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:02 pm I'm new to the forum, but not to astrology.

I see repeated references to Libsolar and Capsolar...
What do these terms mean?

I'm assuming the sun's entry into the cardinal signs...Please advise

Yes. Sun's entrance of Capricorn, Libra, etc. Same with Caplunar for Moon, etc.

You may want to download a free copy of my book Sidereal Mundane Astrology:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2779

Yeah, the cardinal ingresses. But not the tropical ingresses. This isn't seasonal astrology.
There's a whole book you can download for free here: Sidereal Mundane Astrology

It's kind of a looong book.

Jinx!

Are you using sidereal entry?

If so, what ayanmasha?
Or, what date/time are you utilizing?

Bob Oz wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:12 am Are you using sidereal entry?

Yes. That's the whole purpose of this site. As it says at the top, "For the study & Growth of Sidereal Astrology."

If so, what ayanmasha?
Or, what date/time are you utilizing?

The Synetic Vernal Point, popularly known as the Fagan-Allen or Fagan-Bradley.

Bob Oz wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:12 am Are you using sidereal entry?

Yeah. This is a Sidereal forum. Mind the capitalization.

If so, what ayanmasha?

Why, none. We're using the actual zodiac.

This forum uses the "Fagan-Bradley ayanmasha."
The front page on solunars.org gives a short but complete explanation of this site (this is the forum) and the links there give more information.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2259 is an effort to update and clarify a complete statement on what Sidereal astrology is.

For the 2016 Prez Election, Sidereal Astrology was very clear to me Trump (his 2016 SSR) had high % to win and Hillary (2016 SQ & Natal Q) had high % to lose. Because of this clarity for myself with Sidereal Astrology, I strongly felt the Uranus-Pluto themed 2016 Libsolar was forecasting a Trump win which would unexpectedly "stun/shock" the Left (Dem's). In 2016 I strongly felt Jim had verified that Hillary's timed birth was correct. This year I have zero confidence for Biden's timed birth. But months ago the astrology was telling me Trump had high % to lose 2020 election, even without knowing where Trump would be on his 2020 b-day for a set-up of his 2020 SSR. I now know where Trump was on his 2020 b-day, and Trump's main SSR theme is Uranus (Change). But, I also see symbolism in Trump's 2020 SSR which I interpret as malefic. Since I strongly felt Trump would win the 2016 Prez, and Hillary would lose with the Sidereal Astrology I was analyzing, I felt no need to consult the Tarot like I did this year for Prez. The Tarot appears to be clearly telling me Trump loses and Biden wins!!!

So, if my Tarot read is correct, what does this tell me about the themed Uranus-Pluto 2020 Libsolar? It tells me this year the Right (Rep's) will be stunned and shocked (Uranus-Pluto) with the election results. Nature has a way of balancing extremes out. When analyzing Libsolar's for possible Prez forecasting, one party has to win and the other party has to lose. I love analyzing win-lose situations with Sidereal Astrology, right or wrong . The only thing which will give me pause for being wrong with this year's Libsolar-- is if I see Vegas has Biden a -900 favorite to win as Hillary was a -900 favorite to win 2016 Prez on election day. I have proven to myself with Mundane Uranus-Pluto symbolism---it generally "flips" contest results-- only when we see a heavy betting favorite like Hillary was in 2016. I have been wagering on Prez elections since the 70s and 2016 was the only time I witness a betting favorite to lose an election. Potent Uranus-Pluto symbolism literally turns things upside-down, and I think things for the Right (Rep's-Trump) are going to be turned upside-down with the Uranus-Pluto Libsolar.

I will add since the Covid-19 pandemic is a factor for possible mail-in ballots, if this 2020 Prez election may be contested (kinda like 2000) because of mail-in ballots, the longer the final verdict takes--the more it will favor Trump with the Astrology I see---but I don't think this will happen because of my Tarot read for elections results. As always--Time will Tell.

Since my mind thinks more in things economically, the Covid-19 Pandemic is a huge Wild Card in the mix of things politically. If this pandemic continues to get worst going into the 2021 Capsolar, the Nation will definitely need the thinking of the leaders of the Democrats in order to help aid & support the working people of this Nation. The Labor Department tells me we have over 45 million people unemployed by the opening events of Covid-19. I think this will be foremost on the minds of the voting public with a majority realizing that Republican thinking will not support the working public enough if this Pandemic worsens.

I see the 2020 Libsolar overthrowing/toppling something big. The only thing which makes common sense to me is the overthrow/toppling of the Republican Party for many other reasons---but mainly economically.

Steve, why do you not have confidence in Biden's A-rated birth data.

The chart describes him very well. I should add that I'd love to think it was wrong because his last SSR occurred in or near Atlanta and I read it as gross humiliation - and I'd really like to give him a different SSR for this year

But I haven't examined it for events. Let's take a quick check of the death of his son Beau on May 30, 2015, Bethesda, MD. Biden was hit so hard by this event that he mourned for years and it kept him out of the running in 2016 - he felt he simply couldn't keep his mind and heart on the race.

Transits are only an approximation. Transiting Saturn at 6° Scorpio is 3° before the 8:30 AM Asc, 2° past its Venus (there's the midpoint, but I won't rely on that much). It's OK enough as the only serious transit and it might indicate a slightly earlier birth time, fifteen minutes earlier. - His Asc for Bethesda is nearly identical to his Asc for birthplace.

Since you have been digging hard into Solar Arcs lately, I'll mention in passing that directed MC opposed natal Uranus. I don't rely much on this though, especially since, regardless of birth time, the main solar arc was directed Saturn square natal Venus to which (if the birth time is even approximately correct) we can add directed Mars square natal Moon.

His May 15 SLR for Bethesda is painful with a partile Mars-Saturn opposition across the horizon.

6°58' Tau - SLR Asc
7°10' Sco - SLR Saturn (2°06' before Dsc)
8°06' Tau - SLR Msrs (0°26' before Asc)

His Demi-SLR on the day Beau died is terminal and loving: Pluto square MC (less than 2°), Venus rising (5°) atop natal Jupiter. Not perfect, but adequate (and the full SLR takes care of the enormity of the pain).

His SNQ for Bethesda puts natal Saturn on MC. (It is almost partile for 8:30 AM, would be exact with less than a 5-minute shift in birth time). For the given birthtime, transiting Mars is exactly on MC. Transiting Neptune is exactly on WP. It's an emotionally grueling chart: Using noon (since I don't know what time Beau died):

14°08' Leo - SNQ EP
14°48' Aqu - t Neptune
16°01' Tau - r Saturn
17°20' Tau - SNQ MC
18°02; Tau - t Mars

His SSR for Bethesda (a terrible year of Beau dying; also, close to Washington, where he was serving as Vice President) had Neptune on MC (partile square Venus), all on the natal Ascendant for the 8:39 AM time:

9°15' Sco - r Asc
9°51' Aqu - s Neptune
10°19' Sco - s Venus
10°32' Aqu - s MC

His SQ is exactly on target Transiting Saturn is within a degree of Asc! (If it were slightly earlier, it would also be in 1° orb of natal Venus - even a minute or two earlier, or if the death occurred in the early part of the day). Even the mean rate PSSR puts SSR Pluto in the degree of Ascendant.

I'm pretty sure I couldn't contrive more fitting charts. These suggest the birth time is exactly right, or perhaps as little as 5 minutes earlier than the stated time.

Jim wrote:

I'm pretty sure I couldn't contrive more fitting charts. These suggest the birth time is exactly right, or perhaps as little as 5 minutes earlier than the stated time.

Jim, I think I did a quick SSR and Solar Arc analysis for Biden when his wife and one year old daughter were killed in an auto accident Dec 18, 1972, and did not see any fitting symbolism. Let me recheck this and get back later, I could have made errors with my analysis. If so, I will certainly go with your above analysis Biden time is correct and will delight in doing my own full election analysis for Joe. If my Tarot read is correct, we should see some good symbolism for an election win.

Jim, I can now see where I may have erred with my statement about having no confidence in Joe's A rated time. I forgot and left Hades plugged into Solarfire when I looked at his Solar Arcs for 1972 when he lost his wife and one year old daughter to a tragic car accident, which I believe was the most tragic event in his entire life. On 9/9/1972 we get:

d. MC 26,13 Virgo 180 r Hades 26,13 Pi---Witte from his book for MC + Hades:

...bereavement and grief. To do without.

I am now on the same page with you about your opinions for his A rated time being a correct time. Thanks for pointing this out to me with your work on his A rated time . Have you posted any of his election symbolism?

LOL, I'm not eager to convince you based on Hades but... to Hades with that!

I do think it's a good time. The balanced combination of a Scorpio Sun with an exactly angular Sun-Venus conjunction has always seemed correct to me. I'll look at his wife and child's death later.

Thanks Jim.

SteveS wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:14 am ...his wife and one year old daughter were killed in an auto accident Dec 18, 1972

Let's take a look. I don't know the time but noon should be good enough. (They were out Christmas shopping.)

The bigger question is... where was he? I think they were living in Dover. It was soon after he won election to the Senate. I'm going to assume he was home. (There isn't a lot of difference along the mid-Atlantic seaboard.)

A Mercury-Neptune conjunction that day, at 11° Scorpio, was past his Ascendant. I think it too far, and that any small error in the birthtime would likely make it later, not earlier. Mars conjoined his Mercury, but he wasn't in the car. He'd had a Venus Return the day before. Overall, transits aren't helpful.

Secondary progressions produce one stunning hit: For the stated birth time, his Ascendant is 9°15' Scorpio. Progressed Mars was 9°29' Scorpio! Ouch!

His December 15 DLR (two days earlier) should be the prize chart on theory, and it doesn't show well. (It also doesn't show horribly.) Transiting Uranus squares Ascendant - there is a chock. For Dover, both Marses are widely on MC, their midpoint exactly on the angle for Dover. However, natal Jupiter is closely setting and unafflicted. The chart is disappointing.

His SSR less than a month earlier has Neptune conjunct IC. One would like to see more, but there's no doubt this was an extreme emotional reaction concentrated on the most intimate part of his life. Natal Uranus is a few minutes from MC. What's there is accurate enough, it just isn't as stunning as the Beau charts.

The SQ could be better if he were at a diffrent location, e.g. nearby in Washington. However, the SNQ is quite solid with transiting Mars (exactly conjunct natal Mercury) o0n MC (even if he wasn't in the car, Mars on a quotidian angle hurts).

Oh, wait! Remember that Mercury-Neptune conjunction at 11° Scorpio I mentioned at the start? It seemed to be missing anything in his chart. However, his progressed Moon was then at 11° Taurus. So... a transiting Mercury-Neptune conjunction opposite progressed Moon with transiting Mars exactly on MC (on natal Mercury). That's actually pretty good.

These charts aren't as good as for Beau's death but nothing here is wrong and everything here is right.

He was in DC, interviewing staff members for his new Senate office. He was officially sworn in at his sons’ bedside while they were still in the hospital.

Thanks, JSAD. Reworking parts of original... The natal angles are nearly identical, but there might be some small differences, especially in the quotidians, that matter.

[STILL WORKING IT]

Secondary progressions produce one stunning hit: For the stated birth time, his Ascendant is 9°15' Scorpio. Progressed Mars was 9°29' Scorpio! Ouch!

Even closer in DC, where his Ascendant is 9°32' for this birth time.

The SQ could be better if he were at a different location, e.g. nearby in Washington. However, the SNQ is quite solid with transiting Mars (exactly conjunct natal Mercury) o0n MC (even if he wasn't in the car, Mars on a quotidian angle hurts).

Not much difference in the SQ. One thing that is slightly sharper is transiting Sun on SNQ IC, jut outside 1° (regardless of time of day of the event). If this was a hair closer, from a SLIGHTLY earlier birth time, it would suggest father-husband issues.

The PSSR, though, is excellent for Washington! Using the mean rate, Pluto (transiting and SSR) is exactly on Ascendant! (Steve, you might want to compare mean vs. apparent Sun rates on this and let us know the outcome).

The descriptive SNQ is not changed in ant important particular.

Jim wrote:

The PSSR, though, is excellent for Washington! Using the mean rate, Pluto (transiting and SSR) is exactly on Ascendant! (Steve, you might want to compare mean vs. apparent Sun rates on this and let us know the outcome).

Was in hurry so I hope my Janus calculations are correct.

Janus calculates Joe's PSSR ASC (True) for DC on Dec 18 1972 (12:00 PM) at 24,36 Virgo; Mean rate for PSSR Asc: 21,46 Virgo; SSR Pluto 9,26 Virgo

Assuming Joe was home (Wilmington, Delaware) for Xmas holidays on Dec 18 1972 (12:00 PM), here are the PSSR calculations from Janus:
Mean PSSR MC 11,37 Gem
True PSSR MC 14,52 Gem
PSSR Moon 25,11 Ari

FWIW: Joe's Dec 16th SLR (Wilmington) 9:18:32 AM
MC 22,30 Lib
Mars 26,06 Lib
Hades 26,18 Ari

Classifies as a Mars-Hades “outstanding incident” SLR. Witte for Mars + Hades:

Fatigue. Weariness. To cause damages. Sudden attacks. Murder. Homicide. Unusual death.

Dec 18, 1972:
Joe's d MC 26,29 Virgo
Joe's r Hades 26,13 Pi

Indeed, Joe found himself in Hell (Hades) with this tragic death for his wife and one year old daughter.

One of us did something wrong on the math. I get 9° Virgo Ascendant calculating by my quick-check way, which has to be (for the mean rate) close.

Natal: November 20, 1942, 8:30 AM EWT, Scranton, PA
SSR November 20, 1972, 0:09:31 EST, Washington, DC
(estimated) Mean Rate PSSR Asc for Dec 18, 1972, noon 9°37' Virgo, t Pluto 9°58'

(Later...)

I have more time this morning, so I calculate the PSSRs long-form. The mean rate PSSR is equivalent to November 20, 1972, 2:30:35 AM EST, Washington, DC and gives Ascendant 9°41' Virgo. The apparent rate PSSR is equivalent to 2:44:39 AM EST, Washington, DC with Ascendant 12°32' Virgo. Transiting Pluto was 9°58' Virgo, SSR Pluto 9°26' Virgo.

I've been skeptical of the PSSR during the last couple of years, but this is a really good example provided we conclude the mean rate is correct instead of the apparent rate. This is the direction nearly all cases have taken while I've been re-examining - only an occasional example is better for the apparent rate. I'm close to crossing the line of saying, "Well, I'm persuaded the apparent rate PSSR is invalid, now I need to decide if the mean rate PSSR has any value."

POSTSCRIPT -
My PSN technique, that I had almost given up on, produces a very good result in this case: Besides the transiting Pluto on Ascendant (which is simply going to match the PSSR), it has progressed Moon square progressed Saturn 0°32'. This is a double-hard bang of severe loss. It also brings progressed Sun to IC (the father-husband thing I mentioned with regard to another chart earlier).

Jim, double checking/triple checking Janus Calculations for Biden's Dec 18, 1972 PSSR, I still get the same (True) ASC as before: 25,39 Vir. I could not figure out how to post Janus PSSR Chart as a link or the actual chart, but here is the copied data for Janus PSSR Chart for Biden on Dec 18 1972:


Joe Biden
Prog Solar Return Chart
PSSR True
18 Dec 1972
12:00:00 PM
EST +05:00:00
Wilmington DE
USA
75w32'49
39n44'45
Geocentric
Fagan-Bradley
Campanus
True Node
Relocated

I was doing this for Washington, DC, not in Delaware, but the difference for that should be slight.

Can you confirm that you are using the same birth data I used above?

One quick way to estimate what this should be: The PSSR gains about 92° on the SQ over the course of the year, or 7.7° per month (average). This event occurred about a month after his birthday, so the PSSR MC should be about 8° ahead of the SQ MC.

Jim asked:

Can you confirm that you are using the same birth data I used above?

Nope Where Solarfire automatically adjusts for War Time---Janus does not, Janus used EST for Joe's Birth---SF uses EWT.

The mean PSSR Asc for Janus calculations for EWT in Wilmington is 10,51 Virgo, making your DC's SSR Pluto partile cnj PSSR ASC par-excellent symbolism for this tragic event which fell on Joe Dec 18 1972.

As it is now becoming more possible with large amounts of mail-in ballots because of Covid-19, the Uranus-Pluto Paran in the 2020 Libsolar, increases the % for a landmark Uranus-Pluto chaotic delayed result of this election, imo.

I have written the first draft of my full interpretation of the Libsolar:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4409

It may not stay that way, but it will stay approximately that way, so I thought I'd post the link for those who have been interested in this "we'll remember this the rest of our lives" Libsolar.

One thing to look at...
Right above "Arisolar (Apr 14)"

Amidst deep cultural divisions, the nation is hurled closer to a spirit of revolution. As Pluto transitions from Sagittarius to Capricorn, every solar or lunar cardinal ingress through the end of 2003 worldwide will have Sun or Moon conjunct, opposite, or square Pluto.

Buckle-up folks. Its going to be a crazy/wild/stunning/shocking 2020 DC Libsolar Quarter with its Uranus/Pluto Paran!

My final forecast, posted in the monthly forecast sections, was this...

Libsolar (Oct 17)
Three high-risk months (mid-October to mid-January) likely redefine the U.S., rewriting "life as we know it" and paving the way for whatever "new normal" comes after. The Libsolar is shocking and overthrows existing structures.

The 0°05 Uranus-Pluto mundane square (about 1° from angles) is destabilizing, revolutionary, revising, and remapping. New conditions are unbound by precedent, custom, or convention and challenge or reject authority.

Mercury with Uranus and Pluto is typical for travel catastrophes, especially air crashes; but also for earthshaking disclosures of information, major tech breakthroughs, and radical departures from the way information is processed or handled. Best outcome: A medical breakthrough in the COVID-19 pandemic. Worst: An attack on our country (especially cyber-based, possibly the power or information grids) or efforts to overthrow the nation's fundamental structure. Events will be harsh and attacking: Mars squares Uranus (0°12'), Pluto (0°35'), and Mercury (2°24').

Sun is most angular (WP 0°46'). The easiest conclusion is that events center on the presidential elections. Sun's closest aspects are a mundane opposition to Mars (0°09') and ecliptical square to Saturn (0°36'). (Sun also aspects Jupiter and Pluto.) If Sun refers to the president, these aspects weigh heavily against him, describing a "war" to expel him from office. In the alternative, the heart of the nation itself is attacked by foes assailing the America's identity.

With Moon square Saturn, I fear much of the impact will be the anticipated new COVID-19 wave. However, some of the impact is political, hopefully with Moon-Mercury-Mars-Uranus-Pluto signifying disclosure of information useful to our reinvention, rather than subversion of our electoral system.

A couple of us were issuing severe warnings about this Libsolar for about three years. I do know that the feeling I had of it is not what the time since mid-October has felt like to me. But, in terms of actual predictions, how on or off were we? Let's break it down.

The two main things that have happened are: The election went to Biden (with all the sequelae) and the pandemic has run rampant and exploded far past what it had before.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:31 pm Three high-risk months (mid-October to mid-January) likely redefine the U.S., rewriting "life as we know it" and paving the way for whatever "new normal" comes after. The Libsolar is shocking and overthrows existing structures.

The above is my primary feeling and summary of what the chart said. The "high-risk" issue is the pandemic spike (which is still spiking not quite two-thirds of the way through). Will it define "life as we know it"? I guess it's too easy to tell for the pandemic: Ask me a year from now. As for the political side, it only has redefined "life as we know it" if we actually let the last four years settle in as a new normal that was overthrown. Otherwise... it's hard to justify.

But there was unquestionably a massive reversal, certainly an overthrowing of existing structures. Steve thought this would be Trump. I thought it would be Trump overthrown or that Trump would overthrow the U.S. constitution. We got the first of these and got an attempt at the second! So I'm satisfied it's a correct assessment, though I probably would have written it differently in hindsight.

The 0°05 Uranus-Pluto mundane square (about 1° from angles) is destabilizing, revolutionary, revising, and remapping. New conditions are unbound by precedent, custom, or convention and challenge or reject authority.

Yeah. All that in the aftermath of the election. (Not really any exaggeration here.)

Mercury with Uranus and Pluto is typical for travel catastrophes, especially air crashes; but also for earthshaking disclosures of information, major tech breakthroughs, and radical departures from the way information is processed or handled. Best outcome: A medical breakthrough in the COVID-19 pandemic. Worst: An attack on our country (especially cyber-based, possibly the power or information grids) or efforts to overthrow the nation's fundamental structure. Events will be harsh and attacking: Mars squares Uranus (0°12'), Pluto (0°35'), and Mercury (2°24').

No big air disasters. We did, though, get the "best outcome" listed, and that outcome is even more Mercury-Uranus than first thought: Two of the vaccines that are about to be approved use an entirely new "futuristic" technology - the first time an important genetic medicine technology has been used to provide a vaccine by editing the patient's genetic code to cause the body to create antibodies. This would have been science fiction even a few years ago, but today's it's being injected into people and indemnifying 90-100% of them from the virus.

We also saw an attempt to overthrow part of the nation's fundamental structure which, fortunately, has failed.

Sun is most angular (WP 0°46'). The easiest conclusion is that events center on the presidential elections. Sun's closest aspects are a mundane opposition to Mars (0°09') and ecliptical square to Saturn (0°36'). (Sun also aspects Jupiter and Pluto.) If Sun refers to the president, these aspects weigh heavily against him, describing a "war" to expel him from office. In the alternative, the heart of the nation itself is attacked by foes assailing the America's identity.

Yes. (Simply: Yes.)

With Moon square Saturn, I fear much of the impact will be the anticipated new COVID-19 wave. However, some of the impact is political, hopefully with Moon-Mercury-Mars-Uranus-Pluto signifying disclosure of information useful to our reinvention, rather than subversion of our electoral system.

Yes. (Simply: Yes.)

So... overall.. the outcome doesn't feel to me like the forecast felt, but the outcome nearly word-for-word confirms the forecast as written.

Jim wrote:

The Libsolar is shocking and overthrows existing structures. As for the political side, it only has redefined "life as we know it" if we actually let the last four years settle in as a new normal that was overthrown. But there was unquestionably a massive reversal, certainly an overthrowing of existing structures.

Indeed!! The 2020 Libsolar Uranus-Pluto Paran has overthrown the existing political structure, just like 2016 Election with its 2016 Libsolar Uranus-Pluto Paran with the Reps gaining control with a majority in the House & Senate along with Trump as Prez. I think if the Dem’s take the two Senate seats in Ga. they will have majority control of all 3 branches of government—“overthrowing” the two party political structure like the Reps did in 2016 with the 2016 Libsolar Uranus-Pluto Paran.
Jim wrote:

…the pandemic has run rampant and exploded far past what it had before.

Indeed! In some States the spiking numbers are becoming shocking with the Covid population hospital numbers. I hope the main Mars-Saturn theme of the 2021 Capsolar is not forecasting more exploding destructed pandemic numbers before the people can get vaccinated. One thing for sure: SMA Uranus-Pluto themes brings "stunning-shocking" events with powerful "reversals".

SteveS wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:21 am In some States the spiking numbers are becoming shocking with the Covid population hospital numbers. I hope the main Mars-Saturn theme of the 2021 Capsolar is not forecasting more exploding destructed pandemic numbers before the people can get vaccinated.

Sadly, it will be this. Also, there are a couple of rough spots in the first half of the year. (I'm working through my monthly forecasts for the next year and, while overall Biden gets praise and things are getting ready to get better, there are two months he looks completely lost - as the national trends have sudden crisis. It will be a really hard year, maybe (as I've been saying for over a year) worse than 2020.

Ultimately, things DO get better across the six months mid-April to mid-October. However, there are some really bad times during those six months. You can read all of these chronologically, month by month, in the new forecasts posted here: viewforum.php?f=46 (I'm trying to get as much of 2021 month-by-month done in advance of New Years as I can, and I'm almost half way through.)

PS - I've now finished the assessment post above. We did pretty well.

SteveS wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:21 am
In some States the spiking numbers are becoming shocking with the Covid population hospital numbers. I hope the main Mars-Saturn theme of the 2021 Capsolar is not forecasting more exploding destructed pandemic numbers before the people can get vaccinated.

Jim responded:

Sadly, it will be this. Also, there are a couple of rough spots in the first half of the year. (I'm working through my monthly forecasts for the next year and, while overall Biden gets praise and things are getting ready to get better, there are two months he looks completely lost - as the national trends have sudden crisis. It will be a really hard year, maybe (as I've been saying for over a year) worse than 2020.

I fear the same Jim, particularly the first quarter of the 2021 Capsolar. As you have pointed out, Biden has a couple of rough SLR’s in the first quarter of the 2021 Capsolar, but Biden’s new SSR is not malefic so I think after the malefic symbolism of the 2021 Capsolar manifest we see a benefic rebound in things as you pointed out with your words:

Ultimately, things DO get better across the six months mid-April to mid-October.

Jim wrote:

I've now finished the assessment post above. We did pretty well.

Jim, it has been an astrological learning pleasure for me with your Sidereal Mundane Astrology teachings, thanks.

Reviewing this Libsolar with 20-20 hindsight. Some observations:

I now think the Uranus-Pluto Paran mainly manifested and could extend further into 2021 as the revolutionary/rebellious/revolting event in DC on Jan 6th, definitely a "shocking/stunning Uranus-Pluto event. The angular Sun partile 90 Saturn definitely manifested with Trump loosing the election and the second resolution to impeach, and other limitations Trump is now feeling. In fact, as a whole the Reps as DC authority figures lost much power. Not sure exactly how the angular Moon-Me conjunction 180 angular Uranus manifested unless it was the sudden unexpected emotional news of the events on Jan 6 in DC.

SteveS wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:47 am I now think the Uranus-Pluto Paran mainly manifested and could extend further into 2021 as the revolutionary/rebellious/revolting event in DC on Jan 6th, definitely a "shocking/stunning Uranus-Pluto event. The angular Sun partile 90 Saturn definitely manifested with Trump loosing the election and the second resolution to impeach, and other limitations Trump is now feeling. In fact, as a whole the Reps as DC authority figures lost much power. Not sure exactly how the angular Moon-Me conjunction 180 angular Uranus manifested unless it was the sudden unexpected emotional news of the events on Jan 6 in DC.

Agreed. It is very much a part of the astrological profile of January 6. It was the election itself - the overthrow of existing authority - and has just kept growing from there.

I think the Mercury-Uranus is mostly a continuation of the Mercury-Uranus of the Capsolar, which signaled the strong technology impact on the year (e.g., Zoom becoming a routine household reality), continuing disclosures (about Trump primarily), and numerous other small things (Me-Ur is common for bombs and other explosions so seems to have a sense of startling, alarm, etc.).