Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

I have not read many Natal Charts in my life. But, at my age 75, I like to reflect back on my Natal with various techniques for acute symbolic accuracy.

Here is one of those techniques taught by the Hamburg School of Astrology as professional Cosmobiologist’s (Midpoint Analysis): The two most important midpoints for a Natal Chart—only if it involves a Direct Midpoint—are the ASC/MC and SUN/MOON midpoints. Very rarely will you see these two midpoints involve a third Natal factor calculating a Direct Midpoint for a Natal. I use a one and half degree orb or less used by most of the leading Cosmobiologist’s.

For example: In my Natal I have a Direct Midpoint of ASC/MC = Neptune (1,08 orb), and this direct midpoint has by far played the most important symbolic role in my entire life pertaining to my Career in the commercial Theater Business of exhibiting Movies to the public.

Alfred Witte was the first person really to get to grips with the idea of midpoints, and went on to create the German Hamburg School of Astrologers with his colleagues of midpoint followers.

Alfred Witte saw the Midheaven as relating to the time of an event and the Ascendant to its place.

I strongly relate to the above words because the place and time of my birth had this Direct Midpoint with me being raised in a house next to a Drive-Inn Theater/Movies (Neptune). My Mother worked in the Concession Stand of this Drive-Inn and as a janitor for several years raising me in this immediate environment. I earned my first $ at the age of 6 picking-up trash on the Drive-Inn parking lot. My entire professional Career was in the Theater/Movie Business. The year my Solar Arc MC directed partile conjunct my Natal Neptune I became an Independent Theater Owner, fulfilling my life-long dream. More later….

I want to thank 2 members of this forum, Arena & LeiLei for sharing their life happenings. Their very active SUN/MOON Direct Midpoint’s helps prove the truth in the teachings of the Hamburg School of Astrology with Midpoints, as the SUN/MOON midpoint being 1 of the 2 most important midpoints for a Natal analysis under certain parameters.
Arena:
Sun/Moon = Jupiter 0,48 d (direct)
Nep/Node = Jup 0,01 d
LeiLei:
Sun/Moon = MC 0,46 d (direct)
Sa/As = MC 1,00 d
Ve/Ur = MC 0,12 d
Me/Nep = MC 0,15 d
Ve/Ma = MC 1,28 d

I am finding solid evidence the ASC/MC along with direct midpoints involving the ASC/MC chart point can play a very important role with Sidereal Mundane Astrology charts. As most know, I am forever grateful for Jim’s teachings on Sidereal Mundane Astrology with his great research on 50 Super Bowls. Jim’s mind is remarkable in this area of research. I have a special passion for predicting winners with major sporting events under certain betting odds conditions, being taught by a professional sports gambler in the 70s on my first visit to Las Vegas. Combining my knowledge I received from this professional sports gambler with Jim’s knowledge on Sidereal Mundane Astrology offers me a tremendous edge with my recreational sports gambling.

But Alfred Witte (Hamburg School of Astrology), the originator of astrological knowledge with direct midpoints involving the ASC/MC pertaining to TIME (MC) and PLACE (ASC) is most unique IMHO for both Natal & Mundane Charts. I will demonstrate mundanely with the 2/3/2013 Super Bowl between the winner Baltimore Ravens vs San Francisco 49ers. Below is the “Master Chart of the Year”, the 2013 Capsolar Baltimore, Maryland. Please note the partile 90 of Moon-Jupiter. Normally a Siderealist would expect this important Moon-Jupiter 90 to apply for the whole world with this Capsolar, but if Alfred Witte was working with this Baltimore, Maryland Capsolar Chart, he would definitely say this Moon-Jupiter 90 had a special unique benefic power to this PLACE & TIME in Baltimore because the ASC/MC =Jupiter as a direct midpoint, backed by an indirect midpoint of ASC/MC = Moon. Donald Bradley taught us there is no better winning combo as angular Moon-Jupiter symbolism. Using the direct midpoint of ASC/MC = Jupiter in Baltimore brings the ASC & MC of this Capsolar together in a special midpoint mathematical angular way, and it nailed the winner of this Baltimore Super Bowl using its Capsolar, the “Master Chart of the Year.”

https://ibb.co/LS1Qfpv

Interesting, Steve.

Noel (Tyl) highlighted the Asc/MC and Sun/Moon midpoints as vitally important. [along with MPs that contact the Aries point, which might be a topic for another forum]

For me:

Sun/Moon = Asc (orb 1° 18')

When asked what this means, I'd normally say, "what you see is what you get."

Janus defines it as "A strong personality. Coming across as someone who is balanced and centered - in tune with oneself and others. Being conscious of the need to connect with others; cultivating significant contacts and ties in life. Recognizing the importance of close partnerships. Observing the reactions and actions of others within the environment. Assimilating and understanding the essence of personal relationships. Forming physical and emotional bonds."

Asc/MC = Mars (orb 1° 16')

When asked what this means, I'd likely say, "if there's a line drawn in the sand, I'll have one foot on either side of that line" or "don't f*ck with me, because once I pop the top on this can of whoop-a$$, there's no stopping until it's empty."

Janus defines it as "Thriving on personal challenge and the accomplishing of individual goals. High degrees of motivation and initiative. Recognition for personal and professional achievements. Ambitious and willful. Maintaining an active lifestyle. The spirit of competitiveness and rivalry. Courageous stances; tackling difficulties head-on. A readiness to confront. The power to assert, attack and defend. A dislike of being told what to do. A quick temper. Aggressive or destructive traits. Quick reflexes. Impulsive and reactive behavior. Accident proneness. Injury. A fighting spirit."

James wrote:

Asc/MC = Mars (orb 1° 16')
When asked what this means, I'd likely say, "if there's a line drawn in the sand, I'll have one foot on either side of that line" or "don't f*ck with me."
Janus defines it as "Thriving on personal challenge and the accomplishing of individual goals. High degrees of motivation and initiative. Recognition for personal and professional achievements. Ambitious and willful. Maintaining an active lifestyle. The spirit of competitiveness and rivalry. Courageous stances; tackling difficulties head-on. A readiness to confront. The power to assert, attack and defend. A dislike of being told what to do. A quick temper. Aggressive or destructive traits. Quick reflexes. Impulsive and reactive behavior. Accident proneness. Injury. A fighting spirit."

I hear you James . Margaret Thatcher had the same direct midpoint if memory is serving me this morning. Thanks for your input James.

Robert Hand writes from his book “Horoscope Symbols”:

Ascendant/Midheaven (ASC/MC): A very important point in the horoscope, indicating one’s personal attitudes concerning others. Points on this axis may exert a general influence on the chart almost as if they were conjunct the Ascendant, Descendant, Midheaven, or Imum Coeli except that the energy is not so strong. The ability to show to others what one really is or what one is really seeking in life.

A footnote from Ebertin’s book “The Combination of Stellar Influences” on page 306 for the Ascendant/Medium Coeli:

The mid-point AS/MC should always be examined as this frequently has a bearing on the whole personality and because directions over this point may result in a change of life and circumstances.

I know this: When my Solar Arc MC directed to a partile conjunction to my direct midpoint of ASC/MC = Neptune, the most important event in my entire business life occurred with my dream coming true becoming an Independent Theater Owner.

Re: "When my Solar Arc MC directed to a partile conjunction to my direct midpoint of ASC/MC = Neptune, the most important event in my entire business life occurred with my dream coming true becoming an Independent Theater Owner."

If you don't mind sharing, what was the date that you became an independent theater owner? [It was such an important event, and we know your birthtime is dead-on, so I'd like to analyze that in a few other (reliable) systems...]

Nevermind... found it! Oct 31 1987 9:55 AM, Decatur, Alabama

Steve, do you use the birth location ASC and MC for this event or had you already moved and do you use the relocated angles for this midpoint?

SteveS wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:42 am I want to thank 2 members of this forum, Arena & LeiLei for sharing their life happenings. Their very active SUN/MOON Direct Midpoint’s helps prove the truth in the teachings of the Hamburg School of Astrology with Midpoints, as the SUN/MOON midpoint being 1 of the 2 most important midpoints for a Natal analysis under certain parameters.
Arena:
Sun/Moon = Jupiter 0,48 d (direct)
Nep/Node = Jup 0,01 d
LeiLei:
Sun/Moon = MC 0,46 d (direct)
Sa/As = MC 1,00 d
Ve/Ur = MC 0,12 d
Me/Nep = MC 0,15 d
Ve/Ma = MC 1,28 d

You're welcome Steve.
I have to do a better study of those midpoints.

Arena asked:

Steve, do you use the birth location ASC and MC for this event or had you already moved and do you use the relocated angles for this midpoint?

Great question Arena. I have no experience working with angular midpoints with relocated Natals. Most of my experience (recent) has been with mundane charts---the Capsolars with many different locations. But I am beginning to believe Alfred Witte’s work with this midpoint may turn out to be a jewel for us. My only personal experience with this midpoint is with my ASC/MC = Neptune with my birth location, and I have never been located at a residence more than 60 miles from my birth location. But, if we all stop and think about this midpoint, most every native will receive a Solar Arc MC direction to this Midpoint in their lifetimes at their birth location with a normal life span. I do believe this midpoint must be associated with direct midpoints, at the very least with indirect midpoints for it to be an important life incident with a Solar Arc MC direction hit. Not only did my Solar Arc MC direction to my direct ASC/MC = Neptune midpoint change my business career in a big way—it timed in my life putting me in touch with a phenomenal gifted psychic, who became instrumental with the success of my new business career, she was well rewarded btw. If you happen to find any good reading material from the Hamburg School of Astrology about directions and midpoints, let me know and I will purchase to help us all broaden our knowledge. Arena, I want to thank you again for making me aware of the Vargottama Degree areas in the Sidereal Zodiac, it help my inner sight immensely with my Natal Chart. Take care and have as much fun as you can.

But McKenna's chart points the other direction. I agree that MC = Ne/Pl = Me/Ur is beautiful symbolism - it's hard to imagine it being better - and these contacts don't exist mundanely. This is one piece of evidence (a strong one) that ecliptical midpoints to angles are valid.

This is to me a very strong indication to look at ecliptic midpoints.

MC on the Ne Pl midpoint is very descriptive of someone dedicating his career to transformation through psychedelics and being known for it. I always found his way of communication so unique, he has such a special way of speaking and the Me/Ur midpoint can explain that very well.

Yes, the evidence does seem strongly to support the idea that planet/planet = angle (measured ecliptically) are correct for natals.

The same can't be said of ingresses. I suspect the difference is because ingresses are all about distinguishing geographic position - it's the whole ballgame! - whereas that isn't the priority in a nativity. Ecliptical midpoints to angles in ingresses, when they can be distinguished from the similar-but-different mundane contacts, do not hold up across the catalog of major events.

While I'm settled on the issue of planet/planet = angle midpoints, there is a unique problem that I consider unsolved / unresolved for planet/angle = planet midpoints. These might not exist. (I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm saying that, since I started casually looking, I haven't seen compelling examples and, in fact, there are a lot of examples that seem contradictory.) I won't go into the math here (I've covered it elsewhere), but it isn't the same. I consider it "still to be determined," hopefully over the next couple of years.

Finally, on natal vs. local nativities and midpoints: Under current (and probably correct) theory, one would, of course, never lose the natal ones. Decades ago, not having as many other tools to distinguish localities as we have today, Matthew and I thought surely shifts in midpoints involving angles would be one important way to do that. You can get a few midpoints that seem to fit well; but is this because there are so many factors involved and astrological symbolism is elastic? I can't say that any of my "new" LA midpoints involving an angle is essential to explaining conditions here. Even when they seem accurate, the same symbolism appears a different way. (E.g., you can't distinguish my Pl = Ve/MC from my Venus-Pluto square on my local angles - it's the same thing. Or how do you distinguish the feel of MC = Mo/Ju = Mo/Ur from so many other things in the chart, or Ma = Mo/MC from my close Moon-Mars aspect alone? OTOH, the distinctions are usually pretty obvious with my horoscope for birthplace.)

Steve, the difference between your birthplace and residence aren't all that great. I ran your midpoints using a midpoint report in TMSA, comparing the locations using your choice of orb and your direct midpoint choices. The difference amount to a minute or less on orb usually. One definite difference is your Jupiter axis (which, unfortunately, only loses a midpoint for location; it doesn't gain one). With your 90' orbs:

Albertville
Albertville Ju = Sa/Mc 31'i = Pl/Mc 83'i
Springville Ju = Sa/Mc 23'i

The only other sizeable (but not particularly important) difference is your one mundane midpoint to an angle: Ve/Ma is 8' from the meridian for Albertville, 20' for Springville.

Arena wrote:

This is to me a very strong indication to look at ecliptic midpoints.

I agree Arena. My work has proven to me ecliptic midpoints is the main way to go. I worked with another Siderealist many years ago, and he told me to only look at mundane midpoints involving the angles when planets were in the immediate foreground (5 degrees or less) of the angles, but said more work is needed in this area.
Arena wrote:

MC on the Ne Pl midpoint is very descriptive of someone dedicating his career to transformation through psychedelics and being known for it. I always found his way of communication so unique, he has such a special way of speaking and the Me/Ur midpoint can explain that very well.

Excellent observations Arena! I totally agree! His work led me to so much revelatory truth(s) for my life, and I believe the proper use of psychedelics is probably the greatest Secret of History for revealing all kinds of great things/truths for closed cultures. Also for revealing great initiatory mysteries of history. Its truly the 3rd Eye the Ancients left us with so much of their symbolism for those who endeavor to seek and understand. I have been blessed to come into contact with true psychics who naturally have their 3rd Eye open in a natural way without using psychedelics. Without em, I would have been left to wonder around for most of my business life in a fog bank with my natal Mercury-Nep conjunction. I could talk with you for days about this subject because we share a-lot in common with our experiences since meeting on this forum.

Thank you both for your responses. Yes Steve, we do have some things in common I guess. Both Neptunian and Plutonian energies have put their mark upon my life in recent years as they also have yours at another point in time. It grows a certain kind of understanding between us. I appreciate that.

McKenna is indeed a very interesting case study since you say he has these midpoints ecliptically, but they don't show up mundanely. Yet they are so descriptive since he was no "normal" character and he was willing to put himself out there for other people to know of these experiences he had. MC is indeed how others see you or how you appear in the world.

Anyway, it may sometimes be difficult to make sure of our studies except when we see something that this way shows us a novel but very distinctive trait/expression.

I forget how to see midpoints in a clear cut and easy manner in SF, the list is long when you go into reports from the chart and choose midpoints. But I have another simpler program that shows it in a table, so it is more visual and clear. Steve's example of the directed MC has made me curious since I feel that my own career path or direction in life has taken a very unexpected and perhaps "fated" turn with my art. I recently said to my partner that I find it so strange that I was completely out of touch with this strong feature of my soul that I can so intensely feel now and it simply has to come out. So I looked at any signs with midpoints. And I can see that my d. MC (natal hart) has just passed by the Sun/Pluto midpoint and is now approaching the Moon/Jupiter midpoint (hopefully that means success).

However if you take a look at the relocated directed MC, it shows a slightly different picture since it is a few degrees earlier. That would tell us that the d. MC is now conjunct the Moon/Saturn midpoint as well as Moon/ASC midpoint if I'm reading this right.

In case this makes it easier, here are a couple of reports. Feel free to copy them off, then I'll come back and delete the illustrations later. The first is a 90° sort of your planets and midpoints with natals first then solar arcs in red. They are in planet order at the top and degree order below. The second table is the same thing for your city of residence.

In the first one, your directed MC is sorted in at 41°51; in the second, at 37°37' (just coming off Uranus/MC).

Thanks Jim.
Yes I did these reports in SF, although I don't think it showed the directed ones. I can see that the upper table shows the same, d. MC is now partile Sun/Pluto midpoint and the d. ASC is particle conj. Pluto/MC. It sure feels transformative, but I'm not striving for power at all.

In about two yrs the d. MC for natal will square the Moon/Venus and Moon/Jup. Seems like it could be a nice time for an artist.

The second table for residence shows the Uranus connection, but it's also closing in on partile square with Neptune it seems, which the upper table has already passed. Neptune is a strong expression for arts, although it can also be a period of being 'out of a regular job' which is accurate for myself. But that has been the case for many years.

Arena wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:01 am Yes I did these reports in SF, although I don't think it showed the directed ones.

Do a two-wheel: Solar arc chart outside the natal, for example. When you do the midpoint sort report, it then shows the inside (natal) wheel with planets and midpoints, but only the planets (no midpoints) of the outside wheel. They're all sorted together in the bottom half for convenience.

To get the opposite - e.g., if you wanted solar arc midpoints to natal factors - click Swap so natal is on the outside, then look at the same report.

I can see that the upper table shows the same, d. MC is now partile Sun/Pluto midpoint and the d. ASC is particle conj. Pluto/MC. It sure feels transformative, but I'm not striving for power at all.

Ebertin is so bad on Pluto that I start off assuming he's completely wrong - interpret it myself - and get occasionally surprised when he hits it right

In about two yrs the d. MC for natal will conjunct Moon/Venus and Moon/Jup. Seems like it could be a nice time for an artist.

Yes. Or (ahem) a wedding.

Arena wrote:

I forget how to see midpoints in a clear cut and easy manner in SF, the list is long when you go into reports from the chart and choose midpoints.

I don’t exactly know how to use all the Midpoints, too damn many to consider. Some make perfect sense, most don't. I simplify by using mostly the direct midpoints of the personal points, taught to me by Robert Hand with 3 different classes of seminar tapes sent to my home. If had questions Robert was good at making sure I understood where he was coming from with phone calls. Robert I think was privy to some of the original Hamburg School of midpoint teachers, and Robert could read German which was a huge plus for him and everyone who learned midpoint techniques from his seminar classes.

I do know how to view and quickly identify any kind of midpoint I want to isolate with the Midpoint Trees in SF Reports option setting Modulus to 90*00’ and orb to 1*30’, but everyone is different with their choices, many Cosmobiologist use the 45*00’ Modulus some going to 22*30’ Modulus. For example: Lately I have been looking at a-lot of Capsolars with the ASC/MC axis. Once I get to the Midpoint Trees option it takes me about 1 minute to quickly isolate all these ASC/MC, if any, which is rarely so in 90 Modulus. Then I like to allow my eyes next go to the MC axis with direct midpoints. Hand told me the Hamburg School was BIG on the MC axis of midpoints involving other personal points wired into the MC axis. This method is what allowed me to quickly isolate all the direct MC midpoints involved in LeiLei’s Natal, which blew me away—never seen a MC direct midpoint axis like hers. I do believe direct angular midpoint axis are very important with an in-depth analysis of a Natal with only someone who can relay important life incidents with their lives.
Arena wrote:

McKenna is indeed a very interesting case study since you say he has these midpoints ecliptically, but they don't show up mundanely. Yet they are so descriptive since he was no "normal" character and he was willing to put himself out there for other people to know of these experiences he had. MC is indeed how others see you or how you appear in the world.

Indeed Arena. McKenna writings and speaking engagements blew me away!!! Indeed, he has a natural talent for carrying you into a Neptune/Pluto Realm that makes you start thinking outside the box along with that Me/Ur. Never have I heard a speaker that enchanted my mind so much and really made me start pondering things about ancient history. He literally awoke my mind with a bright light going off into my mind about seeing things in broader perspectives. He was an important bridge to us who had seriously experience psychedelics as to WTF is happening to our worlds, and then we soon awake to discover our minds have been magically re-wired into new sights allowing more positive flows of much creative energy to penetrate our souls. It reminds me of when I was making-out with my soon to be wife on a green/blanket on a golf course and we were looking at the stars in the heavens and I asked her what she made of em and she quickly said MAGIC. I think that is when I fell in love with her . Anyway…..

Yes. Or (ahem) a wedding

Oh WOW!

Yes of course. Typical for a Moon/Venus and Moon/Jupiter symbolism are weddings and births of babies. I didn't even think of that. 🥰

Well it will be interesting to see if it's the natal chart or relocated chart that is prevalent for this. The MC hit is a few years apart.

I prefer to only use straight hits to those angles, so only conjunctions and I look at planets squaring them as well.

Arena wrote:

Yes of course. Typical for a Moon/Venus and Moon/Jupiter symbolism are weddings and births of babies. I didn't even think of that.

I think the Hamburg School directed these type midpoints as well but I know no software to handle these type directions. If valid, I would think these directed to the major angles of a scope may offer some valid symbolism but I have never seen any written material discussing this approach.

SteveS wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:08 am Arena wrote:

Yes of course. Typical for a Moon/Venus and Moon/Jupiter symbolism are weddings and births of babies. I didn't even think of that.

I think the Hamburg School directed these type midpoints as well but I know no software to handle these type directions. If valid, I would think these directed to the major angles of a scope may offer some valid symbolism but I have never seen any written material discussing this approach.

Did you misunderstand my explanation that this is about the dir. MC. It isn't the midpoints directing, it is the same thing you describe in this thread where you said:

"When my Solar Arc MC directed to a partile conjunction to my direct midpoint of ASC/MC = Neptune, the most important event in my entire business life occurred with my dream coming true becoming an Independent Theater Owner."

What is happening now is that my solar arc directed MC is now conjunct the Sun/Pluto midpoint and in a couple of years it is coming into a square with those midpoints mentioned above. Maybe the square is not the same and maybe it needs a planet, not just the midpoint. What I understand from your explanations above it is the midpoints for the luminaries an angles that are the most important/prominent and can mark major life events/changes in our life story, right? Or is it only when a natal planet is positioned on the midpoints that they are capable of making these great changes, such as my midpoint of Sun/Moon=Jupiter?

In about two yrs the d. MC for natal will conjunct Moon/Venus and Moon/Jup. Seems like it could be a nice time for an artist.

Yes. Or (ahem) a wedding.

Sorry Jim, I made the mistake to say conjunction, but it is a square.
Do you look at midpoint squares to the directed angles?

I don't know about d. Chiron, but it happens to be conjunct that Moon/Venus midpoint at the same time as the dir. MC is squared. The Magi society believes that Chiron is a catalyst for weddings and marriages, but other astrologers say it is a sign of hurting.

The Magi society puts a tremendous emphasis on Chiron:

CHIRON is the planet that has rulership over emotional ties, marriages, weddings, the family, spouses, and children. It represents the target of a person’s romantic and marital interest. Chiron also has rulership over promises and commitments of love, including engagements and marriage vows. It governs fertility and pregnancies, and the act of giving birth to children in marriage. Chiron rules the material and romantic instinct and desire of romance, as well as romance itself. It also signifies karmic bonds and intuitive trust. Chiron has dominion over charisma and a person’s public image; and being noteworthy, esteemed, distinctive, and distinguished in appearance. Chiron is ruler of your career and how you choose to make a living, as well as where you could be most successful. It also signifies your earning power, the economy, and economics. Chiron imparts extraordinary qualities. It also represents life, death, and reincarnation, and it is symbolic of the future. To say that Chiron is a very important planet is an understatement! Also: Career, trust, free-enterprising, life and death, earning power, freedom, free will, pioneers and adventurers, famous public image, noteworthy.

Arena wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:20 am Sorry Jim, I made the mistake to say conjunction, but it is a square.
Do you look at midpoint squares to the directed angles?

I make no difference between conjunction, oppositions, and squares of midpoints. In practice, I can't see a difference (in contrast to the octiles, which often are clearly weaker).

There's a math argument in another thread explaining that the "squares to midpoints" are really conjunctions. The whole explanation is a little tedious, but I can give a short-form version if you like (just ask).

SteveS wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:08 am I think the Hamburg School directed these type midpoints as well but I know no software to handle these type directions. If valid, I would think these directed to the major angles of a scope may offer some valid symbolism but I have never seen any written material discussing this approach.

Steve, an example: Aside from Gayle's big progressed (or solar arc) Sun opposite Uranus and d MC opposite natal Mars this year on a 90° sort Gayle's solar arc Ascendant is 67°39' (7°39' Virgo). Her natal Saturn/MC midpoint is 67°34' (7°34' Gemini). Makes a lot of sense, yes?

Another pattern Gayle has right now (this is a 90° sort again, every 0°05' is a month):

62°13' d Ve/MC
62°49' d Ur/As
52°53' r Saturn

You can see these in a few seconds on the Solar Fire Midpoint Listing report for a dual wheel. (There are more, of course. I just wanted to highlight these.)

Turning to your chart, here are some current solar arc positions peaking within a month or two of now, in case they make sense to you. Every month is 0°05'.

29°42' r Jupiter
29°44' d Ur/As

62°46' d Ju/MC
62°49' d Me/Ne
62°50' r Sun

75°59' d Su/Ju
76°01' r Neptune

I don't know how important these are, but I wanted to address the questions about what the Solar Fire report was showing.

Thanks, it would perhaps be a good idea to explain how it's the same in here since people can learn from it. The thing is that I'm not sure if the midpoint needs to be "touched" by a planet or if the midpoint itself without being touched by a planet can also have an impact on the directed MC like in this case.

I'm wondering how the dir. MC to the Sun/Pluto midpoint should be explained. I see that Ebertin connects it with seeking a position of power. But I think that possibly (at least in my case) Pluto has a transformative effect, not necessarily connected with material power though. Perhaps higher power. Or secret teachings. Perhaps Pluto is "the bringer of truth/s". There is some kind of "shaking" effect where life shakes you and sometimes to the point that people are "shaken off" of you. Certain truths come out. So it can be a period where relationships or ties between people are broken or deepened/restored. I believe something of the sort is happening in my life now. It can also mark a death, an actual death, a near death experience or an experience of being "reborn" where your life takes such a new turn that it feels like a totally new life. Also, another thing is happening in my own life, I'm looking into ancient teachings that can shake the world view of those who dare to look. I'm also very very interested in near death experiences and secret teachings, even to the point of being willing to induce a nd experience for myself. I am considering to enter the Free Masons to learn more. I've just encountered someone who seems to have deep knowledge of them and one of the initiation processes in the old days (I don't know if they still do it) was a 3 day long induced coma for a near death experience. This came after the first initiation which was to enter the templars and walk that path for three years before this second initiation. This is apparently what great wisdom teachers of our history went through, Plato, Pythagoras, possibly Jesus, possibly Isaac Newton and more. They went through this process of an induced a near death experience in a dark cave or in darkness for three days, and got in touch with The Architect/God/Higher all-knowingness and came back to life with great wisdoms from this experience. This fascinates me. I believe this great interest was awakened or triggered within myself when t. Pluto passed by my n. MC and was followed by d. Neptune.

The combination of Pluto and Neptune brings about a total and very unusual way of transformation. I believe I've been in this process of transformation that started within me by preparing for a year from 2017-2018, then taking the first step in October 2018 ... then followed by a total dedication to the path of transformation and healing until I was "graduated" in a way in January 2020 ... but then followed by a total dedication to this way of healing and transformation in other people as well. So now I'm sharing it with a few people I've chosen or have come to me and they are also going through their transformation. It makes me so deeply grateful and happy to see that transformation in others as well. Pluto is a very demanding and perhaps brutally transformative energy, but it's also rewarding imo for those who dive into it. Neptune is mostly connected with imagination, creativity, dreams, drugs/addiction, but also medicine and religion. To me it is not only imagination and creativity, but a way for the soul/mind to see and feel truths or new dimension of truths. It can also be deceptions - but in my case it made me question "truths". I know that we (humankind) know almost nothing. Most of us are "sleeping". What those masters from our history did in the ancient past was to awaken through the initiation process and nd experience.

PS. I believe Neptune is not just orthodox religions, but it can offer a door to a belief system. I believe it is not only connected with creativity and imagination, but also to our nervous system.

Another PS. It is so very interesting how many Pluto triggers are in my chart. It is most definitely prewritten destinty/fated experiences that are happening in these few years. The trigger started with Pluto transit to my MC, followed by this MC directed to the Sun/Pluto midpoint at the exact same time as the dir. Sun is conjunct n. Pluto and t. Pluto is conjunct n. Nnode and dir. Pluto opposite n. Moon. So so so very interesting.

Sorry, this post got very long - I was triggered by that Sun/Pluto midpoint.

Arena asked:

What I understand from your explanations above it is the midpoints for the luminaries an angles that are the most important/prominent and can mark major life events/changes in our life story, right? Or is it only when a natal planet is positioned on the midpoints that they are capable of making these great changes, such as my midpoint of Sun/Moon=Jupiter?

Yes, only when a natal planet is positioned by conjunction or opposition within 1 and half degree or less to a midpoint does it classify as a direct midpoint, like your Sun/Moon = Jupiter, according to Hand's midpoint teachings. When we see direct midpoints in out natals, Robert Hand is telling us to treat them like major aspects for a natal chart but with top midpoint priorities involving the personal points of Sun-Moon-ASC-MC. This can easily be missunderstood by the learning astrologer.

Arena, by what I understand the Hamburg School is saying: The two most important midpoints in the natal chart are the ASC/MC & SUN/MOON. But these two midpoints only take on special significance when they are structured by a Direct Midpoint, at the very least with indirect midpoints which is another matter with much debate among different cosmobiologists.

For example: Your natal SUN/MOON midpoint takes on special significance because it is structured with a direct midpoint of your Sun/Moon = Jupiter. By what you have shared with us on this forum about your new relationship with your mate, it is obvious to me that you’re Sun/Moon = Jupiter direct midpoint is a very potent manifestation with your new mate with very high % of a long lasting benefic relationship. Robert Hand would look upon your Sun/Moon = Jupiter direct midpoint as probably the second most important aspect in your Natal, second to your natal Venus-Jupiter aspect.

As far as Solar Arcs are concerned by the Hamburg School teachings, they considered the Solar Arc of the MC as the most important direction of em all. The Hamburg School considered the Natal MC as the most important astronomical point of the entire Natal Scope. The Hamburg School considered the ASC/MC midpoint as very important because they knew the Solar Arc of native’s MCs in a normal lifetime would always conjunct the ASC/MC midpoint. The Hamburg School paid very close attention to the mathematical midpoint structures of the ASC/MC midpoint, along with the environmental structures of the native. The Hamburg School were big believers the MC had much to do with the main objectives/careers in life for the native. They would pay close attention to the midpoint structures of the native’s MC including these structures carried along in life as the Solar Arc MC slowly Arc its way through one’s life.

Pertaining to your mention of the Moon/Venus & Moon/Jupiter midpoints having much to do with love/marriages/births, I am pretty sure the Hamburg School would consider the Solar Arc of these two midpoints to be very important only if these two midpoints Solar ARC to a conjunction or 180 to the Natal MC or ASC. One would need to check the midpoint structures of these two midpoints and if they involved a direct midpoint—then, when/if they ever Solar Arc directed to the Natal MC/IC axis, then the Hamburg School would consider a very high % for a marriage/child birth etc. It’s mainly about natal Midpoints structures along with the Midpoint structures of the natal MC associated with them Solar Arcing through our lives. But, one must realize, “all natal midpoints are not created equal,” the main reason believed by the Hamburg School that ever native on earth live their different unique lives. Robert Hand learned directly from the Hamburg School teachers which were the most important natal midpoints out of the dozens of natal midpoints. Every Cosmobiologist uses their own different techniques for rating potency of Solar ARCs and Midpoints. The only Hamburg School teachings I have been exposed to are from Robert Hand, hence the topic of this thread. Many years ago I loaned my Hand seminar tapes out to another astrologer who died and I never saw them again. I wish I had these tapes where I could quote more details directly taught by the Hamburg School for our learning consumption. Also in these all day seminar tapes by Hand he gave dozens of AA chart examples which would really help our learning curves.

Arena wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:08 am Thanks, it would perhaps be a good idea to explain how it's the same in here since people can learn from it.

I'll give a short summary here. The longer exposition is here: https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5822

The key idea is that planet positions (in whatever reference system, e.g., the ecliptic) are circles of position - not semi-circles, but circles, wrapping around the whole celestial sphere. For example, my Sun at 22°28' Virgo has that longitude because a great circle passing through my Sun crosses the ecliptic at 22°28' Virgo... but it also crosses it at 22°28' Pisces. (It wraps all the way around.) There are are a lot of interesting implications in this (and a lot of possible conclusions that probably would be wrong). It has a lot to contribute to aspect theory. It may even speak more immediately to why opposing constellations are so intimately polarized, often as if they were two different voices in the same story (consider Cancer-Capricorn as story tellers, strong parent and security themes, and many other things in addition to the obvious opposite traits). And so on.

I don't know of any phenomenon in nature that would cause half a circle to be an operative unit. Geometrically, I'm convinced the whole circle is in play. Aspects aren't formed between two planets (that's a casual way to get the idea across more simply) but, rather, the angle between their two circles of position.

For midpoints, this produces the following picture: My Sun is 22°28' Virgo, my Moon 27°24' Aquarius. Halfway between them by the shortest route (their half-sum) is 9°56' Sagittarius, Now, it's already well known that conjunctions and oppositions are identical in midpoints, in the sense that 9°56' Gemini (the opposite point) is also exactly halfway between my Moon and Sun.

But wait, there's more!

If the midpoint is formed by the symmetry of the Moon and Sun positions, this means (geometrically) that it is formed on the ecliptic at the points halfway between the PLANES of Moon and Sun positions - that is, between their circles of position. As shown above, my Sun is intersected by a great circle that crosses the ecliptic at both 22°28' Virgo and Pisces. Similarly, my Moon is intersected by a great circle that crosses the ecliptic at both 27°24' Aquarius and Leo. In many senses (especially, I think, for understanding the mechanisms of aspects and midpoints), all four of these positions are positions of my luminaries. If you plot 27°24' Leo, 22°28' Virgo, 27°24' Aquarius, and 22°28' Pisces on a circle, you'll see instantly that THERE ARE FOUR MIDPOINTS BETWEEN THEM. Not just 9°56' Gemini-Sagittarius but also 9°56' Virgo-Pisces.

I think these are not squares to the midpoints: They are legitimate Moon/Sun midpoints on their own. All four of them are direct midpoints between the circles of position marking Moon and Sun. This also matches my experience that I can't tell the difference of the squares from the conjunctions-oppositions.

To take it one step further: The simplest theory is now that midpoints don't make aspects at all. They ONLY exist for direct (conjunction) contact. But what (you may ask) about the acknowledged semi-squares and sesqui-squares to midpoints? (Nobody with Cosmobiology experience is going to believe they don't exist.) There is a simpler explanation: German schools have long acknowledged that midpoints of midpoints exist. If you take the midpoint between any two of my four Moon/Sun direct midpoints you get the semi-squares. (Wow, this makes sense: Same symbolism, same meaning, but understandably a notch weaker.) One could go further by taking midpoints of these for those who insist that 22.5° aspects to midpoints are valid (but, again, a stepdown weaker).

Those are the main points of the argument.

I'm wondering how the dir. MC to the Sun/Pluto midpoint should be explained. I see that Ebertin connects it with seeking a position of power. But I think that possibly (at least in my case) Pluto has a transformative effect, not necessarily connected with material power though. Perhaps higher power. Or secret teachings. Perhaps Pluto is "the bringer of truth/s". There is some kind of "shaking" effect where life shakes you and sometimes to the point that people are "shaken off" of you. Certain truths come out.

I define the Sun-Pluto principle as, "Authentic self, solitude, eccentric, the exception." This is narrow and subject to elaboration, of course, but I think it hits the central idea.

Some of your ideas fit into this. Others probably ultimately fit into this (or a similar concept) but, on surface, sound more like a transiting Pluto. This is directed MC to natal Sun/Pluto, right? Therefore, the natal idea of Sun/Pluto (what I summarize as authentic self solitude eccentric, the exception) is going to be brought out, not a "transiting Pluto" type of effect (which we might expect from directed Sun/Pluto to natal MC).

They went through this process of an induced a near death experience in a dark cave or in darkness for three days, and got in touch with The Architect/God/Higher all-knowingness and came back to life with great wisdoms from this experience.

Yes, I've undergone and administered this sort of formula . Even when the conscious mind knows fully well that it didn't die, one can create the circumstances (by preparation and then ritual) where subconsciousness passes through the experience that it died - and is utterly transformed by this. (Deeper versions can persuade the conscious mind, too, but I'm not sure that's necessary.) It's usually (I think most effectively) preceded by a period where the ego (not knowing that it is transient and recreated moment to moment) fears for and battles for its life and has to pass through its own dying stages.

(Didn't mean to go off on that, but I'll leave it.)

Arena wrote:

What those masters from our history did in the ancient past was to awaken through the initiation process and experience.

Without a doubt Arena, probably of such a poweful Plutonian transformation that litteraly change the ego and life of the individual in a masterful creative healing way.

Here is what I think is an important midpoint aspect synchronicity for the host of our forum-- Jim.

His ASC/MC = Mercury (0,17) indirect midpoint. If Jim’s opinion is true that indirect midpoints are just as potent as direct midpoints, even if not true, then Alfred Witte would say: Jim was born with a very unique/potent/symbolic Mercury related to a specific TIME & PLACE of birth with his ASC/MC midpoint.

I have a very difficult time accepting that the A/M midpoint can be important at all. I know that other significant astrologers (Witte, Ebertin, Hand, just to name three) join you in thinking otherwise.

Every statistical study that has been done on angularity shows that the mid-quadrant region, if not the weakest, is very near to being the weakest. In (more or less) 100% of all charts (exceptions being rare charts in Arena's part of the world), A/M necessarily falls right in the middle of the area that - in the best and largest astrological statistics ever done - shows as the weakest.

I know I have Mercury 0°18' from the A/M midpoint and I'm obviously foremost Mercurial. Or, I could take Mercury 0°01' from semi-square my Ascendant and, if I were only using my chart as a basis, question my position that angles don't make aspects. On the other hand, I don't know any way that I could distinguish that kind of Mercury emphasis from having Sun in Virgo.

On my ranked "needs profile," my angular Moon plus Mercury and Uranus (luminary sign rulers) are the three clear strongest need-forces. This wouldn't be true of all Virgos, e.g., Steve, the top two (tied) are Jupiter and Uranus (with Mercury and Mars behind them).

In the back of my mind I keep toying with the idea that midpoints can be on angles (in the form planet/planet = angle) but angles - being entire planes instead of points - can't form midpoints (no planet = planet/angle or planet = angle/angle).

Jim wrote:

I know I have Mercury 0°18' from the A/M midpoint and I'm obviously foremost Mercurial. Or, I could take Mercury 0°01' from semi-square my Ascendant and, if I were only using my chart as a basis, question my position that angles don't make aspects. On the other hand, I don't know any way that I could distinguish that kind of Mercury emphasis from having Sun in Virgo.

Yes Jim, we have discussed this ASC/MC issue in the past and agreed to disagree on the ASC/MC point. I understand your reasoning because the ASC/MC midpoint falls in a ‘weak’ area of the scope taught by the fathers of Sidereal Astrology as a weak area. Sidereal Astrology is your specialty. There are Virgos all over the World Jim, but they are not exceptional astrologers like you, and with your work as a leading sidereal astrologer, we must account for all the writing/communication you have done in this field and only a specialized ASC/MC = Mercury explains, at least to me, why you have been singled out by a finite TIME & PLACE as a specialized/unique Mercury person being a channel as a true astrological ‘Messenger.’ Not all Virgo’s are writers and very few Sidereal Astrologers. With me looking at your life/work from the outside, I think your ASC/MC = Mercury is a huge Bingo. And with my ASC/MC = Neptune I know in a ‘knowing way’ it’s a big Bingo for my life. The ASC/MC is another one of those astrological issues/techniques addressed by enough leading/respected astrologers as an important point which is a strong indicator: ‘Where there is smoke there is fire.’ Personally, I think the ASC/MC midpoint is such a small zone in the Zodiac-- that unless an astrologer specialized in the Hamburg School—other non-Hamburg School astrologers could easily conclude in error about the ASC/MC. My final conclusion which could be in error: I have enough respect for the Hamburg School of Cosmobiologist with their lifelong research with the ASC/MC to respect this point of the ASC/MC, as with my own individual life with my ASC/MC-- particularly with direct midpoints backed-up with indirect midpoints. You and I are too late in life to change each others mind---but thats OK.

SteveS wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:04 pm There are Virgos all over the World Jim, but they are not exceptional astrologers like you, and with your work as a leading sidereal astrologer, we must account for all the writing/communication you have done in this field and only a specialized ASC/MC = Mercury explains, at least to me, why you have been singled out by a finite TIME & PLACE as a specialized/unique Mercury person being a channel as a true astrological ‘Messenger.’ Not all Virgo’s are writers and very few Sidereal Astrologers.

Accepting your gracious compliment for the sake of discussion I would argue that, first, many Virgos have other factors stronger (angularity and close luminary aspects). I rate the luminary sign ruler at about 90% maximum strength of a planet on its own, but, for example, your angular Jupiter and luminary-aspected Uranus are even stronger. (As a Virgo-Scorpio, your Mercury and Mars are also very strong, but they take second row seats behind your Jupiter and Uranus.)

Virgo is the "messenger" more than it's almost any other things. "Get the facts, tell people about them!"

Second, not all Virgos are Virgo-Aquarius - though I admit that idea isn't entirely fair to Walter Koch (Virgo-Leo), Charles Jayne (Virgo-Aries), Marc Edmond Jones (Virgo-Cancer), Margaret Hone (Virgo-Capricorn), Jeff Mayo (Virgo-Sagittarius), and Andre Barbault (Virgo-Virgo); or, for that matter, to Cyril Fagan and Jim Lewis (both Taurus-Virgo), Tycho Brahe (Sagittarius-Virgo), Al Morrison (Gemini-Virgo), Linda Goodman (Pisces-Virgo), Carl Stahl and Dennis Elwell (both Aquarius-Virgo), and many others I could name.

One person in 12 has Sun in Virgo (abut 8%). One person in 30 has Mercury (or any planet) within a degree and a half of one of the A/M (or A/I, I/D, or M/D) midpoints, which is about 3% - a smaller number, but not all that different.

I think one difference here is that you have never seemed too committed to the signs, whereas I consider the luminary signs to be the basic template of someone's psyche, responsible by themselves for the vast majority of all traits. If Sun-sign or Moon-sign describes a trait clearly, I don't really need to look further.

One difference I see between Jim and Steve is that Steve as at heart a cosmobiolgist, while Jim is not, though he's conversant with the techniques. You have things to learn from one another, and I have things to learn from both of you, as well as an occasional thing to teach.

I remember talking with Rob Hand about how many similarities we had given the differences. He remarked that, of course, it was the Cosmobiology we shared.

OTOH I readily admit that my main interest in Cosmobiology (besides just being drawn to Ebertin's amazing Aquarian mind) is, first, that it has so much in common (near overlap in a majority of places) with Sidereal astrology and, second, that it's totally embedded in psychology and sanity.

I think the main difference between Steve and me is that Steve primarily wants astrology for prediction. He wants the thrill and practicality of pinning down events. OTOH, I begrudgingly admit people want prediction out of astrology, and see the "political" practicality of trying to seduce Tropicalists to Fagan's primal "it started here" discovery of Sidereal solar and lunar returns. For myself, though, all I've ever really wanted from astrology is to unlock the innate nature of a person - who they fundamentally are - without being dependent on any discussion of what happens to them.

When Steve reads a natal, he tends to do it like he's trying to predict events from it. When I predict, I tend to do it as if it's just another opportunity to read character.

I definitely fall in Jim's camp and I see that it's a difference in emphasis. I very much believe the aphorism "character is destiny" and understanding our own pyches is the central point. My best prediction come directly from my own psyche unbidden. Not to say I haven't had hits reading for clients, particularly of the behavior as manifestation of character variety. Giving a private reading to a female co-worker who proudly admitted that her reputation for enjoying the company of men was well deserved, while delineating a Moon-Venus-Uranus combo in her chart I had an intuitive flash and went with it; "you go for girls, too" answered by "who told you? I'll hurt that blabbermouth b*tch". I won't say that didn't increase the turn on, but I am an ethical astrologer--oh bull^**t, the fact is she regarded herself (perhaps correctly) as hopelessly out of my league. Truth be told I'd have been her willing sex slave had she but breathed a word.

Jim wrote:

One person in 12 has Sun in Virgo (abut 8%). One person in 30 has Mercury (or any planet) within a degree and a half of one of the A/M (or A/I, I/D, or M/D) midpoints, which is about 3% - a smaller number, but not all that different.

I hear you Jim. It was only a couple of weeks ago that I ran across Alfred Witte’s reasoning why the A/M was so important. Also why Hand felt a direct midpoint involving the A/M was so important. It made good sense to me but I knew only the native himself who was a well versed astrologer could possibly verify its importance for themselves. But it dawned on me, maybe further proof could be seen with mundane charts. So, I told myself look at the 50 Super Bowls and see if the direct midpoint of A/M when present proves out to be at least 80 % accurate with the winners & losers with mainly only Venus-Jupiter-Saturn. I am about half way through this research.
Jim wrote:

I think one difference here is that you have never seemed too committed to the signs, whereas I consider the luminary signs to be the basic template of someone's psyche, responsible by themselves for the vast majority of all traits. If Sun-sign or Moon-sign describes a trait clearly, I don't really need to look further.

I understand Jim. No one can match your indepth research/knowledge with Signs.
Mike wrote:

One difference I see between Jim and Steve is that Steve as at heart a cosmobiolgist, while Jim is not, though he's conversant with the techniques. You have things to learn from one another, and I have things to learn from both of you, as well as an occasional thing to teach.

Yes Mike—so true a astrological forum is about learning. I try to let my own natal chart prove any astrological techniques for me. And with only my individual in-depth understanding of my own life with my direct midpoint of A/M=Neptune proves it is vastly important in my life. And it’s not only based on my personal conclusion—it’s based on other authors who have seriously studied the importance of the A/M. The main way I proved Sidereal Astrology to my mind was study the authors who had seriously written about Sidereal Astrology---then take my own Natal for final conclusions—no different than what I did with Hand’s excellent research with midpoints.
Jim wrote:

…is, first, that it has so much in common (near overlap in a majority of places) with Sidereal astrology and, second, that it's totally embedded in psychology and sanity.

When I first encountered Sidereal Astrology, I quickly realized it stressed the importance of the personal points, ASC.MC, MOON, SUN, and Cosmobiology stresses the same 4 personal points. I try to take the best of both of these astrological branches for my work passing it on to other learning astrologers. This is a Sidereal Astrology forum. I first try to stress the importance of solunars for other learning astrologers.
Jim wrote:

I think the main difference between Steve and me is that Steve primarily wants astrology for prediction.

Yes, my passion is to accurately predict the outcomes of major sporting events because of my speculative aspects in Natal and the tremendous fun and challenge to win. I have always been a highly competive person. But, it should be understood I had to accurately predict the grossing potential of a movie back in the days when the studios made us exhibitor’s contract movies without showing us the movie, it was difficult when having a limited number of screens. My liveyhood depended on accurate predictions. I have never read a natal chart for another person. I have had about 6-8 business clients and they don’t give a damn about who they are or their character, but they damn sure want to know the really bad % good times for their business futures, and there is no better way that I know how to do this than with solunars, mainly “outstanding incident” solunars. My few clients are amazed with the accuracy of Sidereal Astrology charts for their futures. They don’t care about their Sun/Moon signs.

On the other hand, I have always been deeply interested in probing the depths of who the hell “I am” with my Natal, along with WHYS for major happenings in my life. For sure, I love my Virgo Sun and Scorpio Moon---I try my best to love myself with what I was born with in my Natal. Astrology is a great adventure/exploration for so many things.

SteveS wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:07 pm It made good sense to me but I knew only the native himself who was a well versed astrologer could possibly verify its importance for themselves.

Why would that be? Isn't this something sufficiently objective that, with proper data gathering, we can determine whether it is or is not a valid factor?

I can see your similar point on houses (I don't fully agree, but I see your point) because houses appear to reflect the way very subjective inner organization of experience occurs. Mostly, we probably we only can rely on reports from the person, things they tell us about their experience of life, to provide data.

But those who express confidence in the A/M midpoint have no such fuzzy expectations for it. Witte in Rules attributes it to "the relationship to others; to join with others for a common objective," etc. If something like this is so, it's outwardly observable. Or, if the midpoint is valid and is simply another angle, then that should be equally measurable in the same way other angularities are discernible.

Jim asked:

Why would that be? Isn't this something sufficiently objective that, with proper data gathering, we can determine whether it is or is not a valid factor?

Only with mundane astrology and in a very microcosmic way because of the narrow degree orbs allowed with the A/M. I think you will maybe see/understand better when I finish my Super Bowl analysis with the A/M. The way I understand where Witte was coming from with the A/M, it does not show its symbolism very often, but is much more a narrower focus of TIME & PLACE than with the standard primary angles. It’s kinda like what you have correlated with partile mundane aspects showing their faces with narrower PLACE locations. It’s difficult for me to explain but I think my forthcoming research will explain better.

But those who express confidence in the A/M midpoint have no such fuzzy expectations for it.

Exactly Jim! But what they don’t say is the acute A/M symbolism, particularly with direct midpoints, don’t show their true faces very often. But when they do---it is important to note! This is what I am discovering with my mundane Super Bowl research.

SteveS wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:32 am

But those who express confidence in the A/M midpoint have no such fuzzy expectations for it.

Exactly Jim! But what they don’t say is the acute A/M symbolism, particularly with direct midpoints, don’t show their true faces very often. But when they do---it is important to note! This is what I am discovering with my mundane Super Bowl research.

Steve, respectfully, this is just a different way of saying, "It really doesn't work but, of course, everything will produce randomly good-looking results sometimes."

I suspect that's not what you meant to what; but speaking to what you did write, a factor that "doesn't show its true face very often" isn't a factor on which we can rely.

I understand Jim.

Again, the Cosmobiologist’s soundly taught the ASC/MC direct midpoint is very important. Just take a look at London’s striking 1939 Cansolar before the bombing of London—kick-starting WW11.

https://ibb.co/WsWrVCb

And even more striking are the direct midpoints of this chart’s ASC/MC:

A/M = MARS 0,25 direct
A/M = PLUTO 0,05 direct
A/M = MOON 0,19 direct
A/M = SATURN 00,8 indirect

My God, the Heavens conspired/calculated/foretold this War with these A/M midpoints with London's 1939 Cansolar!!!

No one else on the Planet has done more research work with the ASC/MC than Alfred Witte. Michael Harding and Charles Harvey from their book “Working with Astrology”, The Psychology of Harmonics, Midpoints and Astro* Carto* Graphy says:

Alfred Witte saw the Midheaven as relating to the TIME of an event and the Ascendant to its PLACE. The AS/MC midpoint itself he described as representing the idea of ‘at this time and place’; in effect, how an event is brought into being at its own precise moment. The Ascendant refers to our ‘persona’ or our response towards the world while the MC depicts our aims and goals. Obviously, there is much more to these two points than this as we shall see in the next chapter, but for the moment let’s take them at this basic level. Seen together in this way we have a picture of how we may orientate ourselves in life and the way which we might actualize our conscious or professional ambitions. In some respects this can be seen as the point where our conscious Ego (MC) is brought together with the way in which we tend to respond to the world (AS). A planet aspecting this point may tell us exactly how we do this.

My Natal Neptune forms a conjunction 1,08 to my AS/MC, a direct midpoint. And this 1 of 2 for the 2 most important midpoints in a Natal Chart told me “exactly” where my conscious Ego (MC-TIME) was brought together to how I responded to the world (AS-PLACE) as being born into a home which was next to a Drive-Inn Theater (Neptune), and beginning a career (MC) in the Movie (Neptune) business at age 6 for a lifelong professional ambition. The accuracy of the above quoted words is staggering to my mind, and I have not even gotten to possible mundane implications of London’s 1939 Cansolar explained and shown in the previous post, which to my mind proves the validity of ASC/MC and Sidereal Mundane Astrology's Ingress Charts, particularly for signaling the precise PLACE (London) for the beginning of WW11.

More words from Michael Harding & Charles Harvey about the ASC/MC:

If the Sun/Moon midpoint is the balance point of our masculine and feminine sides—the fulcrum of our own ‘inner marriage’—then the ASC/MC midpoint will focus more on the way we self-actualize moment by moment. In this respect the term used in Gestalt psychology, ‘here and now’, captures the immediacy of this point with some clarity. A planet on the ASC/MC midpoint is something like a direct hit. The individual will almost certainly use that energy constantly in life, generally thriving on it….

Steve, I am curious how you would expect Asc/MC = Mars to play out...in terms of your thoughts and sources...

I'd expect active, motivated initiative towards accomplishing individually-defined goals...competitive, courage-building circumstances...a quick temper...potential for problems if centered too much on self's wants...hypersexuality and/or over-done "maleness."

James wrote:

Steve, I am curious how you would expect Asc/MC = Mars to play out...in terms of your thoughts and sources...
I'd expect active, motivated initiative towards accomplishing individually-defined goals...competitive, courage-building circumstances...a quick temper...potential for problems if centered too much on self's wants...hypersexuality and/or over-done "maleness."

James, as always we astrologers need to know about the environments of the native, but your words above seem very apt for this midpoint combo. You as an astute astrologer would know better than anyone else how this A/M=Mars is working in your life.
For a good analogy for another well-known public person with A/M = Mars, we have Margaret Thatcher which the above author(s) says about her A/M = Mars:

Margaret Thatcher with her A/M = Mars thrives on the cut and thrust of political life, has an intense dislike of compromise and consensus and takes an unashamedly aggressive stance towards every issue she faces.

I have always liked your “unashamedly aggressive stance” you take with your school of astrology. It tells me your school of astrology is very important to you and you will fight (Mars) defending your school of astrology, as well as anything else in life important to you. I admire this in a person, it tells me their beliefs are grounded on what they have proven to themselves as truths. If I ever had to go to war, I would want an A/M = Mars person in the same foxhole with me .

Ebertin for A/M = Mars:

The individual in action, a positive attitude towards one's family and colleagues. Sucessessful teamwork.

Thanks, Steve...

Re: "You as an astute astrologer would know better than anyone else how this A/M=Mars is working in your life."

Yes, but often there is some subtle nuance that might fly under one astrologer's radar or some "outside" astrological view that widens the personal understanding. I felt I had a pretty good profile of the main ideas/elements for Mars = ASC/MC. I think the problem I have with my word-picture of that midpoint picture, is that having Mars so prominent, I would expect someone that would be considered aggressive (as in the Thatcher example). The people that know me best use words like "calm," "mellow," and "centered," which doesn't really lead to thinking about a Mars that is front and center in everything. On the other hand, my Wife recalls a time where a woman was being attacked by some crazy dude and my Wife says that I was stopped and out of the car and already 25 meters down the street and in-between the two of them, before she even realized anything was happening. In the teams that I have been in (ice-packing shift leader, postal service collector and then manager of same, IT-service teams), I do work hard to try and push to the front. There might be a bit of the "2nd place is 1st place for the losers" mindset in some ways.

I guess I can agree with all of it for the most part,...but say that parts of what Mars astrologically means to me, just like Mars, leaves me a bit uncomfortable.

James, the A/M = Mars is an important part of your inner being, but we always must strive to interpret the natal chart as a whole which is a most difficult task for the astrologer, even when analyzing their own Natals. We can and should go with the Ah's ---thats me to a T---when it comes to other astrologers words about planetary combos. Everyone is so uniquely different in their own individual ways. But I do think Midpoints are a front door to the microcosm of ourselves. And for sure I think the A/M and SUN/MOON are indeed the two most important midpoints to begin midpoint analysis. If there are no planetary structures with these two midpoints--then I go to other direct midpoints involving the 4 personal points. Midpoints are a priority process and I was fortunate to receive Hand's teachings concerning priority processes with Natal Midpoints. Thanks for your input with your A/M = Mars. It appears to me your have a keen insight how this important midpoint is playing an important part for your life.

From the same above authors:

In starting to apply these ideas to the natal chart, the first midpoints to look at are those of the Sun and the Moon (Sun/Moon) and the Ascendant and Midheaven (ASC/MC), if the time of birth is known with reasonable accuracy. If there are planets on either of these points then your view of the chart may alter considerably. Initially you may prefer just to work with these two midpoints, adding in extra information as you become more familiar with their use. These are key points and should be examined as a matter of course in every chart. To miss a planet on one of these degrees can be to miss the whole message of the chart, and many astrologers who otherwise do not use midpoints routinely will always pay attention to what is happening here. If there is a planetary pair within minutes of the Sun/Moon or ASC/MC midpoint, you may wish to take these also into consideration and check whether the energies or themes they symbolize function as part of the process as well.

FWIW, reviewing my life of 76 years, by far, the most important point in my entire horoscope has been my direct midpoint of AS/MC = Neptune (1,08). The importance of the AS/MC was stressed by the German Schools of Astrology, particularly by Ebertin in his book “Combination of Stellar Influences” where his teachings stated:

The midpoint of AS/MC should always be examined as this frequently has a bearing on the whole personality as probable manifestations when brought out by transits, progressions, and directions indicate important periods of life. The main manifestation is an important change in life and circumstances. Specific characterizations are colored through the addition and incorporation of other factors.

The two most important changes in my entire life and circumstances (huge) occurred when transiting Pluto passed over this direct midpoint in 1976 & 1977 and Solar Arc MC passed over this direct midpoint in 1987, both once in a lifetime hits. Also, transiting Saturn passing over this direct midpoint has had its inhibiting affects in my life. If any member has a direct midpoint involving AS/MC, please let me hear from you. Only allow an orb of 1,30 degrees as this was the maximum orb allowed my most advocates of direct midpoints. A direct midpoint is when a planet is within 1,30 degree 0 or 180 of the AS/MC midpoint. An indirect midpoint with a 90 degree aspect could be important as well, but my teacher on midpoints stressed the 0 & 180 of planets to the midpoint of AS/MC.

SteveS wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:18 am The two most important changes in my entire life and circumstances (huge) occurred when transiting Pluto passed over this direct midpoint in 1976 & 1977 and Solar Arc MC passed over this direct midpoint in 1987, both once in a lifetime hits. Also, transiting Saturn passing over this direct midpoint has had its inhibiting affects in my life.

Steve, since your Neptune is 1°09' from A/M, these events/periods you reported were also simply transits of Pluto to your Neptune, directed MC to your Neptune, and Saturn to your Neptune. I don't see anything in them that necessitates that the midpoint was involved at all since the transits and direction to your Neptune by themselves were sufficient.

I'm not sure how you can distinguish that the midpoint had any relevance or made these transits and direction any more important than they would have been otherwise.

Jim wrote:

I'm not sure how you can distinguish that the midpoint had any relevance or made these transits and direction any more important than they would have been otherwise.

Jim, the reason you can’t distinguish it the way I can: it is by my understanding of the German schools teachings and others about the symbolism of the AS/MC itself which I have studied relative to my own individual life. The AS/MC has to do with “higher self and lower self” from a conscious standpoint according to the German schools. Only I would know this as true, as an individual---no one else except maybe Gayle. Plus the fact my hits to the AS/MC = Nep had the potency of an angular hit much more so than a transit by itself to another planet, and I do know the difference after studying Sidereal Astrology for 30 years. Also, I trust Robert Hands teachings about the AS/MC since I seriously studied under him about midpoints and he is an expert on midpoints, no different than you being an expert on Sidereal Astrology. Robert says about AS/MC:

A very important point in the horoscope….

I didn’t take Robert’s words above as being true, I proved it to myself with my own life/horoscope. Jim I realize you and have had our disagreements about this issue but like I said before: I am the only one who has lived my life and I think I can distinguish what is more important in my own horoscope, after 40 years of living it. But, I understand why you disagree---no big deal---never will you find two astrologers who agree on everything.