Merry Christmas for the Grell's 1956

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Dec 12, 2008 5:01 pm

Some people have tried to use astrology to improve their gambling odds. (I should be so lucky. ) Here is an outstanding example of how one couple did find the stars to indicate a significant win.
Paul Grell was the Executive Secretary of the AFA years ago, and he and Vicky his wife sent in this note to American Astrology in 1957. Here is complete data as printed in the October 1957 AA "Many Things" column, v25 #8, page 19 with tropical charts:
Paul R Grell, April 20, 1906, 2:15 am LMT, 38n38, 90w12, (St Louis), Asc 14AQ39, Moon 22PI19;
Victoria C Grell, September 8, 1911, 8:00 am LMT, 45n39, 13e46, (Trieste, Italy), Asc 12LI14, Moon 10PI03.
The winning charity ticket was bought by Vicky on Market Street at about 4 pm, 13 Dec 1956 in her husband Paul's name. The drawing occurred at noon on the 14th and theirs was the last one of seven drawn out of about 90,000 tickets sold, each for a horse in the race to be run on the 15th, which happened at 4:16 pm.
The story of the drawing with photos of both Paul and Victoria appeared in the evening edition of the San Francisco Examiner on the 14th and also in other papers. Also on the 14th Paul was offered $2000 for the ticket by a coworker and later that evening $3500 from someone on the phone, but both offers were refused. Their horse, Hollandes II, won by half a length and they received the top prize of $10,000 in the form of a check at the Children's Hospital on the 17th at about 4:35 pm. Their phone rang for several days as friends congratulated them.
The article is unsigned but appears to be a collaboration between the Grell's and the AA editor, page 20: "We are indebted to Mr Grell, First-Vice President of the American Federation of Astrologers, for the opportunity to study the aspects for such a wonderful event..."

Garth Allen's article on their win appeared in his Dec 1957 "Powwow Corner" and on page 29 he notes that Paul's natal and progressed Plutos "the miracle maker, the great single-outer, the cosmic defier of odds..." were opposed by the transiting Sun during this period and transiting Pluto was also trine his natal Sun.
He also noted that the couple's sidereal solar return Jupiters (Santa Claus of the Solar System) in San Francisco were near the MC, while their lunar returns for the date put both Jupiters near the Dsc! Allen assumed that the time should have been stated as clock time instead of LMT, but noted that the LMTs were equally good or better. Note how Vicky's round hour birth time could be adjusted to bring both Jupiters closer to the angles, a good indication for a rectified time.
Regards,
Wayne

PS I have not checked his charts. I hope he did the math right!

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

This presents an interesting dilemma for the practical astrologer. Put yourself in the shoes of the Grells on the 14th. You have the ticket, and the horse is such a long shot that you know it would pay thousands of dollars in the unlikely event that it wins. But you've studied your charts -- the progressions and returns and transits and all -- and the signs of miraculous good fortune are so undeniable that you are positive the horse will win.

Then comes the phone call, and an offer to buy the ticket for $2000. Maybe this is the windfall the stars portended, and saying no to the offer would be an act of free will that refuses the boon your destiny is offering. Or do you hold on to the ticket, confident that the stars have promised even greater rewards?

Wishing to take the most advantage of your astrological expertise, what do you do?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Interesting post Wayne. The prominent chart that offers appropriate symbolism for a most fortunate day for LADY LUCK to shine her light is Vicky’s SQ1. As Wayne noted, both Paul & Vicky’s SSR promised something fortunate within their Solar year with their Jupiter’s being placed on the superior angle of the MC. Both of their Solar Jupiter’s are tied in to the LIGHTS, Vicky’s Sun and Paul’s Solar Moon.

Applying Jim’s same criteria for ‘outstanding incidents’ with SSR’S, we can apply Jim’s same criteria to Vicky’s SQ1. On the day and time of the race we see Vicky’s Solar Jupiter partile the 7TH SQ1 angle-- throwing partile 45 degree aspects to her all important PROGRESSED SOLAR MOON and Solar Neptune. Also Vicky’s angular Jupiter throws a partile 45 degree aspect to her progressed Solar Venus. Progressed Solar Moon is 90 partile to her progressed Solar Venus with their midpoint = her angular Jupiter. This is a most potent DYNAMIC SQ1!

To offer speculative answers (already using 20/20 hindsight) to gmugmble’s most interesting posing question, would determine how much faith the astrologer had in quotidians using Jim’s criteria for ‘outstanding incidents’---If lots of faith, then the astrologer takes it to the limit by going for the BIG MONEY on the day of the race, because of Jupiter being the closest orb on the angle on the day of the race—but then this would bring in the all important factor—Do I have the correct birth time? Also, the sidereal astrologer would have taken notice of Paul’s SSR Jupiter/Pluto aspect for a possible ‘miracle’. Not knowing the odds on my horse, I probably would have taken the sure money. If there were early odds posted on the race and my horse was high odds not to win, I definitely would have taken the sure money. If my horse was the favorite to win, I probably would have gone for the BIG money.

If Vicky’s SQ1 chart is not in full size—left click in open space to enlarge.

Sadly, the attachment was overwritten years ago.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Dec 15, 2008 3:55 pm

Hi Steve et al,
That is about as nice a "lucky" chart as I would hope to see. Did you use LMT or zone time for her chart, and what would the differnce be between the Q1 and Q2 angles? It seems that the round hour birth time of 8 am may be pretty close.

Their horse was the favorite to win, which is likely why Paul was offered substantial money for the ticket, and why he decided to hold onto it. Also second place paid $3000 and third place received $2000. This was a charity event, which puts it in a somewhat different psychological light. Incidentally, they intended to use their winnings for a trip to Europe. Moon/Venus is an excellent combination for pleasant travels as well as good luck.
Regards,
Wayne

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Dec 15, 2008 10:35 pm

Wayne wrote:
That is about as nice a "lucky" chart as I would hope to see. Did you use LMT or zone time for her chart, and what would the differnce be between the Q1 and Q2 angles? It seems that the round hour birth time of 8 am may be pretty close.

This is an incredible example of a “lucky” QUOTIDIAN DAY! In fact, until someone shows me data for another equally incredible “lucky” quotidian day—you will hold the distinction of posting the data for the finest example I have ever seen of an INCREDIBLE “lucky” quotidian day—a powerful textbook example! My Solarfire program used zone time (Central European Time -1:00). My program is not set up to calculate Q2 angles—probably because I don’t know HOW to set it for Q2 angles. Maybe Jim or someone else will post the difference between the Q1 & Q2 angles. The SQ1 itself, featuring Solar Jupiter partile the 7th angle tells me the 8 AM birth time is most likely accurate to 1 minute of clock time. Also, the Solar progressed Moon being partile 90 progressed Venus and partile 45 solar Jupiter offers strong mathematical reinforcement the birth time is very close. Fagan/Firebrace used partile progressed solar moon aspects for rectification.

Wayne wrote:
Their horse was the favorite to win, which is likely why Paul was offered substantial money for the ticket, and why he decided to hold onto it.

Yes indeed, I totally agree. If I (as an astrologer knowing how to calculate quotidians) had drawn one of the tickets out of 90,000 entries and already had a good bank roll (account), and having the astrological faith I have in quotidians with an accurate birth time, I definitely would not have sold my ticket for two main reasons. 1: The horse drawn was the odds on favorite to win. 2: The fact I have seen many quotidians manifest an ‘outstanding incident’ to the exact calculated quotidian day, using the same criteria Jim uses in his book for recognizing ‘outstanding incidents’ with SSR’S. On the other hand, If I had a low bank account, I would have taken the sure money and sold my ticket for the 2,000 offered. $2,000 was a tidy sum of $ in 1956. Then the next day I would have puked when I was offered $3,500. Then when my horse would have won the race on the 15th, I would have become violently ill kicking myself several times in the aff for not putting my professed faith in quotidians. So goes the nature of the beast we humans have to live with at times.

But what is even more remarkable about this most excellent quotidian example is the math and ASTRONOMY involved in calculating this ‘outstanding incident’ with the sidereal technique of a SSR and a Solar Quotidian DAY. When the astrologer stops and ponders, literally, the huge astronomical odds involved with the calculation of this ‘outstanding’ quotidian ‘incident’, foretold with outstanding planetary symbolism to the exact day of the event (horse race), using an accurate birth time, the astrologer can’t help to become overwhelmed with AWE and the realization we are dealing with math and astronomy of the ‘highest order’ involving significant, symbolized, planetary experiences in our lives—all traced backed to an astronomical genesis event of our birth TIME! The sheer MYSTERY and sidereal timing precisions of these astronomically/astrological timed experiences, is what keeps my astrological blood pumping.

Wayne, if you find any more data with good evidence of an accurate birth time—involving out of the ordinary—‘outstanding incidents’---please post. This will allow a most excellent study aid for Sidereal Astrology and their ‘outstanding’ timing techniques. ‘Outstanding Incidents’, with an accurate birth time, always brings forth hard core/angular planetary symbolism pertaining to sidereal techniques and their return charts.

Regards, Steve

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Dec 16, 2008 3:08 am

My Solarfire program... is not set up to calculate Q2 angles—probably because I don’t know HOW to set it for Q2 angles.

Go into Preferences on the Progressions.Directions (Progs/Dirns) tab. Under "Chart Angle Progression," pick "Mean Quotidian." Under "Progression Day Type," pick "Standard (Q2)" for the Q2 - it will be the default when you install Solar Fire - or "Bija (Q1)" for the Q1.

Here's where I'm confused: You keep saying you're doing the Q1. In Solar Fire, there is no way to get a Q1 unless you know how to do the above selection. In Solar Fire, you can't not know how to do a Q2 (the default) and yet still be able to do a Q1 at will.

Maybe Jim or someone else will post the difference between the Q1 & Q2 angles.

The above is the calculation difference. The definition difference is this: The Q1 equates one sidereal year to one mean sidereal day (the time it takes the earth to rotate on its axis; say, returning to a given Sidereal Time). The Q2 equates one sidereal year to one mean solar day (what we commonly call "a day" - the average time between two consecutive crossings of the MC by the Sun, for example).

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Dec 16, 2008 1:58 pm

Thanks Jim for the program instructions for computing the Q2 angle. The reason for me confusing you over this Solarfire matter with the Q1 & Q2 angle rate—is because of my delayed and disjointed learning experiences with Sidereal Astrology. My first astrological program was Nova. One day I experienced an ‘outstanding incident’ that was not explained to me by any astrological technique in the dozens of astrological books I had read. Not knowing any other astrologers to voice my puzzlement over this matter, I read (word for word) the ENTIRE Nova manual, looking for an astrological technique that I had possibly overlooked--- which would explain the symbolism for my ‘outstanding incident’.
I found a short paragraph explaining a technique by Fagan called the Quotidian. Rob Hand who wrote the Nova manual did not emphasize the importance of Solar Quotidians, except to say they were an ‘invention or discovery of the late Cyril Fagan.’ At this time I did not know the works of Fagan but I knew planetary symbolism well. It took me 2 hours to figure out the key strokes to compute Nova’s Solar Quotidian which was defaulted to a complete unfamiliar term to me called the Neo—Quotidian Rate.
At this time I did not realize there were two different angle rates of Quotidians. All I know-- is when the quotidian Nova chart rolled out-- the angular planetary symbolism was DEAD ON for my life experience, calculated to the exact day of my outstanding incident. Years later, I learned the Nova quotidian chart I computed was what siderealists labelled with their terminology-- the Q1.
This new discovery of Solar Quotidians astounded me! I could not for the life of me understand how traditional astrology could have ignored an astrological technique that calculated angular symbolism to the exact day of an ‘outstanding incident’! Years later, when I opened up my first line of communications (internet) with a siderealist, Matthew Quelles, he told me if I wanted to increase my learning curve with the techniques of Sidereal Astrology, I should get Solarfire. When I got Solarfire, I naturally, by Nova habit, plugged in and got married to the Q1 rate-- not realizing the Q2 rate was just as important, maybe more so according to your communication with Bradley, than the Q1. I was not brought up on Sidereal Astrology like you and Matthew.
Matthew and I worked with another computer program (Janus) and Matthew quickly discovered what Janus labelled the Q1 rate was actually the Q2 rate and the Q2 was the Q1 rate. Matthew, if you are reading and I have this wrong—correct me. This was very confusing to me so I just simplified and stuck with my Nova experiences which turned out to be the Q1 rate with another label.
It took me 15 yeas in my astrological pursuits to discover the few books on Sidereal Astrology, which gradually proved to me the immense worth of Sidereal Astrology. As far as the Q1 & Q2 rates—I only have observational research experiences with the Q1 rate. I need to start researching the Q2 rate. It was only last year you initiated your Sidereal Forum—Solunars, which as far as I know is the first and only Sidereal Forum on the internet. This is allowing me to broaden my somewhat limited learning horizons with Sidereal Astrology, particularity in learning ALL the various sidereal techniques. Your posts have helped me to understand how you prioritize the many layers of sidereal astrology.

Regards, Steve