Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Wayne Turner wrote:Hi all,
Steve began a lament about the "greater malefic" Saturn here: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=239#p1863 There is no doubt that if Saturn is present at the time of a financial loss, a bankrupt or burned down business, a serious illness or accident, or the loss of a loved one, he deserves a share of the blame. (Garth Allen even found him implicated in destructive volcanic eruptions.) Modern psychological astrologers have tried to soften this fearsom reputation with talk of repsonsibility, maturity, and conscienciousness, but in fact they are not the first to do so. Siddhartha Gotama, later called Shakyamuni Buddha, centered his philosophy around Saturn's lessons regarding loss and sorrow. His natal chart--which I came up with after a three month semi-solitary retreat in 2004--features a close SA 45 MO and probably an almost exact trioctile/octile from Saturn to the MC/IC. (See data below.) Does this image look like a hard SA/MO?! http://www.jaywye.com/wp-images/sea/starving_buddha.jpg As I mentioned here http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=239#p1860 I have a close parallel between the Sun and Saturn natally, and they bracket my ascendant. And it is true that my complexion is a mess and I have a slight case of scoliosis and a sunken chest, but I consider this a proper price to pay for admittance to some of the inner sanctums of truth, which is where in fact Saturn sits on his "throne." My SU/AS/SA triplex is among the stars of Libra, and interestingly I have spent thousands of hours analyzing ancient metrological data, some of which I have posted on the Hall of Ma'at website, whose logo features the famous "weighing of the soul" scene from Egyptian mythology. http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?1,35 ... msg-359280 Back in the 1970's I also owned gold coins, because it had become clear to me that like most national governments in trouble, ours believes that "printing money" is far easier than collecting taxes, and is less burdensome than borrowing.
Regards,
Wayne

Edit 29Jan09: Here is what Jim says about Moon-Saturn: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=29&p=129#p135 A quite good fit with Buddha's life. It is worth noting that his mother died shortly after his birth, and he was raised by a step-mother.

The chart data for Buddha's life is as follows, but all times are preliminary. They looked fairly good when I was doing the research. One very interesting discovery that these charts reveal is that there are important sol-lunar cycles completed near our 35th and 80th birthdays that I wasn't aware of. Traditionally four of these events are believed to have been on full Moon days, but we see that Buddha was born and enlightened within two days of a new Moon, while the Dharma Wheel turning and Parinirvana occurred on full Moon days as expected. Near our 35th birthday, a cycle of 433 synodic months and 468 sidereal months comes to fruition, while our 80th anniversary is one half of a long cycle of 160 years (sidereal is very exact) and 1979 synodic lunations.

Buddha's birth: 15 May 587 BCE Gregorian, 21 May -586 Julian, 6:15 am LMT, Lumbini, Nepal, 83°e20', 27°n24', 0:41:56 UT, 21:41:32 LST, JD 1507161.52912 (Originally calculated for Kapilavastu, Nepal, 27°n28', 83°e16', the UT and JD will be slightly different for Lumbini's coords.)

Buddha leaves home: 15 June 558 BCE Gregorian, 21 June -557 Julian, 12 noon LMT, Kapilavastu, Nepal 27°n28', 83°e16', 6:26:56 UT, 5:29:37 LST, JD 1517784.768704 (In 2 BCE, this is also the Gregorian date of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. See http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=110#p1498)

Buddha's enlightenment: 16 May 552 BCE Gregorian, 22 May -551 Julian, 4 am LMT, Gaya, India 85°e00', 24°n47' (Bodh Gaya will be slightly different, 24°n41' 45", 84°e59' 29") 22:20 UT, 15 May Gregorain, 21 May Julian, 19:32:08 LST, JD 1519946.430556

Buddha turns Dharma Wheel: 1 July 552 BCE Gregorian, 7 July -551 Julian, 3 pm LMT, Benares, India 83°e00', 25°n20', 9:28 UT, 9:35:19 LST, JD 1519992.89444 (Isipatana/Deer Park coords are 25°n22' 51", 83°e01' 28", the MC/IC will be the same, which is important for transits.)

Buddha's Parinirvana: 16 May 507 BCE Gregorian, 22 May -506 Julian, 9 am LMT, Kasia (Kusinara), India 26°n45', 83°e55', 3:26:56 UT, 0:33:21 LST, JD 1536382.643704 (Originally calculated for Kapilavastu.)

CHamer wrote:I'm really glad to know about these details about Buddha's birth chart. I loke to know some info on Saturn conjunct Pluto and others.all it brings is misery and destruction ?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

CHamer wrote:I'm really glad to know about these details about Buddha's birth chart. I loke to know some info on Saturn conjunct Pluto and others.all it brings is misery and destruction ?

Do you mean in a birth chart, or some other situation?

If in a birth chart, the most reliable thing it brings is a tendency to drive oneself excessively hard and take the world's burdens on one's shoulders. Here are some notes: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=31#p166

Freya wrote:I have a fried who has a saturn-pluto conjunction on the ascendant. Her relationship with her father is not very good, and she had a very hard childhood. Does anyone know how this aspect on an angle can influence health and/or the adult life?

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:That's covered under Aspects here: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=31#p166
Hope that helps.

Freya wrote:Yes, it did! Do you know where I can also find an explanation for saturn cnj mars in natal?

Thanks

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Yes, it did! Do you know where I can also find an explanation for saturn cnj mars in natal?

For all of these, look in the ASPECTS section: http://www.solunars.net/viewforum.php?f=19

For Mars-Saturn natal aspects, see: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=19& ... rt=15#p154

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim. Do you think that one can predict the year of when the influences of a difficult planetary aspect are lessened based on secondary directions?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim. Do you think that one can predict the year of when the influences of a difficult planetary aspect are lessened based on secondary directions?

Perhaps. That's at least one factor. For example, a year with a progressed Sun-Jupiter conjunction is likely to be splendidly prosperous and successful more or less regardless of what else happens.

But generally I don't find a lot of fluctuation of the strength of major transits. They're always quite strong. There may be other things going on which, on balance, make the effect seem altered, or there may be a pile-up of simultaneous exact aspects in one direction which lead to a very strong, decisive event - but each individual factor seems fully operative.

Transiting aspect effects manifest more strongly if they occur in the immediate foreground (i.e., in close proximity to the angles) of the Sideral Solar or Lunar Return.

Freya wrote:that makes sense

Freya wrote:Is it true that having Saturn in Libra makes saturn's influence worse because it is exalted?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Is it true that having Saturn in Libra makes saturn's influence worse because it is exalted?

In theory, it makes it better! That is, it is working without conflict - in a context of the same nature. It only makes it "worse" in the sense that it makes it more purely, unresistingly Saturn; but that's not inherently bad.

I have Saturn in Libra at birth. (My Saturn return is on it's way in a few months.) It's the only natal Saturn I know, so it's hard to say what the difference is from subjective experience. But Fagan did an early small study in which he found that great Popes, monarchs, and other heads of state had a tendency to have an unusually great number of planets dignfied, especially by exaltation. Saturn in Libra and Jupiter in Cancer were among the most common placements in such charts.

Freya wrote:I find myself in the same situation; I have Saturn in Libra and I am going through my Saturn return at the moment....I think it was Volguine who said that Saturn in exaltation was more "malefic", but I may be wrong. I have read it somewhere and was puzzled by that statement because exalted planets are supposed to be better in some way. As Saturn has been referred to as the planet of karma, what is your opinion on karma for those with Saturn in Libra?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:I think it was Volguine who said that Saturn in exaltation was more "malefic", but I may be wrong.

Of course, if that was based on observation then he was referring to Saturn in Virgo

As Saturn has been referred to as the planet of karma, what is your opinion on karma for those with Saturn in Libra?

I'm also reflexively suspicious when anyone speaks of one or another factor being "karmic" in a horoscope. It's too narrow. Of course, Saturn is a good candidate because it brings us in contact with practical consequences of the forms, definitions, actions, etc. that we hold.

I don't think it's any more or less "karmic" in Libra than anywhere else. However, given Libra's themes, it might make some of us think more in terms of cause-and-effect consequences and "balance" themes as a way of framing our experience of Saturn.

Freya wrote:gotcha. I should probably forget the karmic side of it that I have picked up from reading vedic astrology...

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:gotcha. I should probably forget the karmic side of it that I have picked up from reading vedic astrology...

In the psychologically-mindful West, we pay attention to the same thing: It's called "character is destiny" and being responsible for your actions and creations

Freya wrote:...your post made me think....described that way destiny is something that one can control... then would Saturn represent fate instead?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:...your post made me think....described that way destiny is something that one can control... then would Saturn represent fate instead?

Fate IS free will when that will is truly free.