Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Venus_Daily wrote:I have a very close cousin, we're more like sisters, my moon is exactly opposite her Gemini Sun in the 21st Degree, afflicted by a square from an exact Mars/Saturn Conj.( I know Gemini Suns are more like to suffer from mental disorders, and the added Mars/Saturnis just a big cosmic screw you)
She was born Jul 8th 1980, with an arbitrary time of 12:00 pm, I don't know her birth time. Anyway her Venus trines the Mars/Saturn conjunction. The native was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and Bipolar Disorder.
Both of the Native has two children, a daughter with a natal sun of 19 pisces, squaring her mother's Sun, and My moon, Her daughter also has a Venus Neptune Saturn T-Square, needless to say all three of us have strong synastry between our 4 charts, including her son, but I worry most about her daughter because she seems to have inhereted her mother's personality.
Myself, My mother, and her mother are practically raising her two children because she'd rather put her boyfriend, and her terrible job ahead of her, it is a totally Gemini profession. Anway, I wanted to know, how likely are her daughter's natal planet's able to afflict her mental health, as well, will the synastry between her mother and her affect her mental health, obviously it will, but to what extent.
What is very amazing though is that 4 of us share the same times of Venusian Aspects, myself and my cousin Venus/Jupiter, She and her daughter Venus/Saturn, and myself and her three children Venus/Neptune! Our parents do not, they're two very strong women who grew up in the 50s-70s.

Jim Eshelman wrote:First of all... as Freya was mentioned, there are many things affecting mental health. Some are genetic, some are environmental, etc. And, of course, genetics and environment are things we see reflected into a horoscope, so you have good cause to wonder about this.

I think, though, that the odds are that your fears won't manifest. But let's break down your post a bit.

Venus_Daily wrote:I have a very close cousin, we're more like sisters, my moon is exactly opposite her Gemini Sun in the 21st Degree, afflicted by a square from an exact Mars/Saturn Conj.( I know Gemini Suns are more like to suffer from mental disorders, and the added Mars/Saturnis just a big cosmic screw you).

Interestingly, the Mars-Saturn may be the saving grace.

"Mental disorder" is a very wide term. Not all "mental disorders" are equal - various types arise from different character patterns. In fact, there are mental disorders related to every possible character pattern we know. That is, a disorder arises from a particular character pattern going out of bounds.

Gemini Suns have been statistically linked to two particular kinds of psychiatric problems. First, Gemini and Aquarius Suns are the most common (to a statisitcally significant level) among schizophrenics. Second, Gemini is one of the signs most linked to alcoholism (in combination with other factors); in practice, I've found that this manifests of other substance abuse patterns also. Then, as a more general category, there are all sorts of possible problems coming from "nerves" overall.

And, remember, these are pathological extremes, not the typical.

But let's look at that Mars-Saturn. The good news is that tbe Mars-Saturn conjunction square her Sun is probably her best prophylaxis against these problems. Why? Because if Mars-Saturn is going to become pathoogical, it is going to be a very different kind than schizophrenia. Mars-Saturn in this sort of configuration is going to have problems with impulse control, for example.

In general, Mars-Saturn marks someone who struggles. They are scrappy battlers. Life probably seems tough, and like one is battling against oppression and suppression. But with this sort of natal aspect, the toughness is what shows the most. Yes, if you pile on enough life trauma it can knock anyone "over the edge" into psychopathology; but look at the Sun-Mars and Sun-Saturn aspects! These are tough, survival-oriented aspects.

Of course, they're likely to make others around her uncomfortable. They aren't necessarily socially popular. But that' because her Mars-Saturn is "coming in from the outside" toward other people, who feel it like a transiting Mars-Saturn. The aspect is probably harder on the people around her than on her. (And, with your Moon opposed by her Sun and squared by her Mars-Saturn, you've probably been on the receiving end of her domination and harshness.)

She was born Jul 8th 1980, with an arbitrary time of 12:00 pm, I don't know her birth time.

Is this the right birth date? Something is wrong here. I don't know why you called this "an exact Mars-Saturn conjunction when they are separated by almost 7 degrees. And the Sun is nowhere near aspect to either one of them. Did you give the wrong birthday for her. (I'll leave my remarks above about the chart you described, just in case they actually are her chart elements.)

For July 8, 1980, the luminaries are in Gemini-Taurus and the most pronounced aspect pattern is Mecury exactly trine Uranus, and both of them exactly sextile Saturn. There is also a strong Sun-Pluto square (and slightly wider Mercury-Pluto). None of the chart factors you mentioned are even present (other than the Gemini Sun).

The native was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and Bipolar Disorder.

I'm not going to comment more more on this until I know we have the right chart. But I might pass along an anecdote that explains how psychiatrists diagnose sometimes (that is, it brings their personal involvement into focus). There is an old "rule of thumb" in psych circles, treated as a casual joke but actually close to what a lot of doctors do. Here's the rule (speaking to the doctor): "If the patient makes you want to hug them, they have a neurosis. If they totally confuse you, it's a psychosis. If they simply irritate you a lot, it' a personality disorder. And if you want to kill them, they're a Borderline."

Venus_Daily wrote:So sorry, It's Jul 8 1982,! I apologize

Second, Gemini is one of the signs most linked to alcoholism (in combination with other factors); in practice, I've found that this manifests of other substance abuse patterns also. Then, as a more general category, there are all sorts of possible problems coming from "nerves" overall.

Hit the nail right on the head, during her adolscent years, she drank, like a fish, to the point where her liver is suffering now. I was wondering, is her Borderline Personality disorder characteristic of someone with a close Venus/Saturn Mars trine, or is it Gemini missing its cosmic playmate once again.
I know genetics and environment play a huge role, I'm just hoping genetics don't win out

Freya wrote:I have a very close mars-saturn conjunction and sun in gemini. I am not an alcholic, but I probably went to the opposite extreme, that of teetoalism. I do feel like I have had a hard life, and I am living a very difficult time at the moment. But honestly I don't think that this aspect has affected my mental health (at least not yet . I think Jim is right.

Venus_Daily wrote:Thank You so much for your input as well Freya, it really helps to have some kind of input from someone who's actually a gemini, and knows.
I was wondering to everyone though, are there any recources, such as books available on how to deal with people of a certain zodiac sign, obviously, you have to take the whole chart into account, but my cousin seems to embody the stereotypical Gemini type of person

Freya wrote:I don't know...but I wish I came with a user manual when I was born

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Venus_Daily wrote:So sorry, It's Jul 8 1982,! I apologize

That's more like it.

Without a birth time, we're limited, of course. But the main aspecy you mentioned, Mars-Saturn partile conjunct and partile square the Sun, is there; And Venus trines them. Something you forgot to mewntion is the close Mercury-Neptune square - that's one of the biggest indicators of this type of aberration (in combination with other factors).

And the Moon is in Capricorn (the constellation with Mars and Saturn in dignity). This reinforces my sense of "acting out," impulse control problems, etc.

I was wondering, is her Borderline Personality disorder characteristic of someone with a close Venus/Saturn Mars trine, or is it Gemini missing its cosmic playmate once again.

I think the Gemini Sun in conjunction with the Mercury-Neptune opposition. Plus, all the impulse-control stuff I mentioned is characteristic of Borderline Personality Disorder.

Borderline is a tough one to nail astrologically, because psychiatrists used the term so variously for decades, and still arennnnn't consistent in how they diagnose it. But, if she really does fit the current standard diagnostic criteria, then I'm coming back to thinking you were right about the Sun-Mars-Saturn. There is "rebellion beyond rebellion," pot-stirring, conflict anyagonizing, and - especially - acting out due to a deficit of impulse-control. Borderline also carries the characteristic of these behaviors impairing (often wrecking!) close relationships. There is also something that looks like extreme moralizing, or intractible beliefs that certain things are "good vs. bad." And yes, the Gemini could add an acute intolerance of being alone.

I know genetics and environment play a huge role, I'm just hoping genetics don't win out

I don't know that there are genetic factors for these particular disorders. I agree with Freya: The only "inheritance" of these factors to the children is going to arise from the environmental factor of exposure to their mother. Between behavior modelling, how she treats them, and whether they mostly forge their identity by matching or rebelling against her, it's her presence in their life that affects this more than her genes.

In particular, they have not learned from her how to set and hold boundaries in their lives.

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Jim, what is your opinion on a partile square between mercury and pluto? Would that have a similar effect to mercury-neptune as you were describing?

No. A very different effect. Study the two of them here:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1217

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim....would you consider partile inconjunct aspects to be relevant?

Barely.

Venus_Daily wrote:Another Question About Gemini, Gemini recently came to the progressed aspect a few years ago.
I know that progressed sun, and progressed moon are the most important, but does the progressed ascendant still add some color to my chart?

Jim Eshelman wrote:I don't think so, no.