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Dignities & Dignity
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:18 pm
by Jim Eshelman
(Dec 21, 2014)
One oft repeated statement from Sidereal astrology's earliest days is that planets in their signs of dignity (home or exaltation) confer dignity in life station. A specific claim was that popes, monarchs, and U.S. presidents had horoscopes proving this point.
Well, at least among U.S. presidents, it just isn't true.
In fact, two sign placements alone show how complicated this is for U.S. presidents: 7 presidents have Venus in Pisces, the sign of its exaltation (a pretty high number, and rising above all the others); while 10 presidents have Mars in Cancer, the sign of its fall.
As of the 1940s, this fact seemed to be more true than it is now. For example, Sun in Aries (its exaltation) was easily the most common Sun-sign among U.S. presidents. In the interim, there have been no more Aries presidents, and two new Virgo presidents have brought Virgo up to tie Aries as most common Sun-sign.
If we take only exaltations, the numbers are pretty even when comparing planetary dignities to debilities in U.S. president charts (except for Mars, which is exalted once and falling 10 times). If we add the home and detriment signs, it gets a little more interesting. Here's the list:
Sun (Ari + Leo) 8. (Lib + Aqu) 6.
Moon (Tau + Can) 8. (Sco + Cap) 7.
Mercury (Vir + Gem) 2. (Sag + Pis) 8.
Venus (Pis + Tau & Lib) 13. (Vir + Ari & Sco) 10.
Mars (Cap + Ari & Sco) 7. (Can + Tau & Lib) 17.
Jupiter (Can + Sag) 9. (Cap + Gem) 6.
Saturn (Lib + Cap) 6. (Ari + Can) 6.
As you can see, the thesis is not substantiated by these data.
Re: Dignities & Dignity
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:21 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Bogdan574 wrote:That sounds fascinating Jim! I wonder what having dignities in other planets foretells for people also. It seems to predict someone's profession and the major themes that will play out in their lives. What does dignity in Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn mean?
I have Jupiter dignified in Cancer and (according to Vedic charts) Saturn dignified in Capricorn. I can at least predict that my life should have themes of altruism (charity work) and academia in it. (Assuming the Vedic chart as valid for a moment, Saturn may lead to contemplation and reclusiveness.)
I know that Mohammed Ali and Marquis de Sade both had Mars dignity in Aries while "Lucky" Luciano had Mars dignity in Scorpio. Mohammed Ali was a sports champion who had struggle past racial barriers, Sade's life and works were full of themes of imprisonment, crime, and violence, the same thing applies to Luciano.
Maya's chart has dignities of the Moon in Taurus and Venus in Libra. So the Moon would seem to predict themes of showmanship, wanderings (never living in a stable home), and strong subconscious pulls. Venus seems to predict a career as an artist or curator, and sexual desire a big theme in her life.
My friend Katherine has Moon dignified in Cancer and Saturn dignified in Capricorn, so Lunar and Saturnine themes should present themselves in her life, such as wandering, being a receptive and sensitive person, and for Saturn being a bit withdrawn, and liking to live in the world of books.
I hope this is a bit accurate.
By contrast, what themes happen with planetary debilitations?
Re: Dignities & Dignity
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:22 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Bogdan574 wrote:I wonder what having dignities in other planets foretells for people also.
I actually think the answer is all in the basics: That it means nothing
per se, except the one thing these dignities really mean: The planet and the sign have a similar nature. Therefore, a planet in its home or exaltation is conditioned by a nature substantially similar to its own (unless aspects - which are much stronger than sign placements - say the opposite). This has a sort of "smoothness" in that there is no inhibition to the planet being itself. Similarly, planets in detriment or fall are conditioned by qualities
opposite their own, which sets up a friction or a very interesting polarity issue - but, again, aspects trump.
It seems to predict someone's profession and the major themes that will play out in their lives.
I have no evidence that this is so.
What does dignity in Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn mean?
In each case, it means that the planet is conditioned by a quality the same as its own. Moon in a moony place, Mercury in a mercurial place, etc.
I have Jupiter dignified in Cancer.. I can at least predict that my life should have themes of altruism (charity work) and academia in it.
You have both luminaries and a zillion planets in Sagittarius. Why in the world do you need a minor Jupiter characteristic - something shared by essentially everyone born within a year of you - do substantiate Jupiter characteristics?
I have... (according to Vedic charts) Saturn dignified in Capricorn... (Assuming the Vedic chart as valid for a moment, Saturn may lead to contemplation and reclusiveness.)
I can't believe you are even giving this the slightest credence. One thing we know with no doubt is where the boundaries of the zodiac are concerned. Your Saturn is in the last degree of Sagittarius.
Re: Dignities & Dignity
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:23 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Bogdan574 wrote:Well you seemed to be implying something about careers since you mentioned Aries being the most common sign among U.S. Presidents.
The idea in this case was "exalted dignity" - Popes, kings, queens, and presidents. World rulers. That was the original claim.
Re: Dignities & Dignity
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:27 pm
by Jim Eshelman
(Picking up in real time on the new forum...)
If we adjust one number in consideration of my current belief that Jefferson had Moon in Sagittarius, not Scorpio, and then bring this up to date by adding President Trump to the tally, the list becomes the following. (Trump replaced the Jefferson Scorpio Moon as a Fall, plus Neptune in detriment (Jupiter, too, but not according to the list used below), and Mercury at home in Gemini.) It doesn't change the outcome or the general look of things.
Sun (Ari + Leo) 8. (Lib + Aqu) 6.
Moon (Tau + Can) 8. (Sco + Cap) 7.
Mercury (Vir + Gem) 3. (Sag + Pis) 8.
Venus (Pis + Tau & Lib) 13. (Vir + Ari & Sco) 10.
Mars (Cap + Ari & Sco) 7. (Can + Tau & Lib) 17.
Jupiter (Can + Sag) 9. (Cap + Gem) 6.
Saturn (Lib + Cap) 6. (Ari + Can) 6.
Re: Dignities & Dignity
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:30 pm
by Jim Eshelman
We can now update this by adding President Biden. Venus in Scorpio, Mars in Libra, and Jupiter in Cancer add to the list. (This may not be fair to the thesis because the Venus and Mars detriments are also a mutual reception, i.e., they are reciprocally connected which doesn't mean either is cost by the transaction; but I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.
But forget that Mars in Libra. I've also modified this list to remove the Aries-Libra entries for Mars, which is more consistent with the current model.
Sun (Ari + Leo) 8. (Lib + Aqu) 6.
Moon (Tau + Can) 8. (Sco + Cap) 7.
Mercury (Vir + Gem) 3. (Sag + Pis) 8.
Venus (Pis + Tau & Lib) 13. (Vir + Ari & Sco) 11.
Mars (Cap + Sco) 4. (Can + Tau) 11.
Jupiter (Can + Sag) 10. (Cap + Gem) 6.
Saturn (Lib + Cap) 6. (Ari + Can) 6.
This gives 16 dignities vs. 13 debilities for the luminaries - not a big difference. For all seven planets it gives 52 vs. 55. Those figures (the popular Mars in Cancer) drag the whole study down. Premise remains unsupported.