Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
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Topic review: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
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Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:45 pm by StarAgeWiz
Larry Hagman
9/21/1931
4:20 pm -AA-
Fort Worth, TX
neo-SSQ calc. for residence Dallas, TX 11/23/12.. Death!
Bi-Wheel inner/SSQ, outer/Natal.... *(Tri-Wheel too blurry to post)
Tr. Saturn 11/23/12 10LI53 conj. SSQ MC conj. Natal Mars paran-SQ Natal Saturn exact conj. SSQ ASC.
Attachments
Larry Hagman SSQ.png
Hagman dies at 81 yrs old with throat cancer.
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:09 am by SteveS
Mike wrote:
Tr. Saturn 11/23/12 10LI53 conj. SSQ MC conj. Natal Mars paran-SQ Natal Saturn exact conj. SSQ ASC.
Ebertin from COSI on one of the negative manifestations for Mars-Saturn symbolism:
Cases of Death.
The p. Q angles were the prime timing indicator for the day of death.
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:53 pm by Jim Eshelman
That's a striking example. I'd like to di some more.
Do you have a time for his death?
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:01 pm by Jim Eshelman
I've looked around, can't find a time for death on Friday. Absent better information coming, I'll use a death timing of November 23, 2012, 12:00 PM, Dallas, TX.
BTW, that's one of the best examples of a Neo-SQ I've ever seen. (I object to the term SSQ, since that's a highly non-standard name that neglects two of Fagan's naming conventions. But I figured out what you mean.) Since that technique normally fails miserably compared to the mean rate SQ, I'm very interested in examining a larger picture.
TRANSITS TO THE NATAL CHART
t. Neptune sq. r. MC (26' ap.)
t. Saturn sq. r. Moon (32' sep)
The Sun had just left (61' orb) conjunction with his natal MC. The transit had surely dominated the family Thanksgiving gathering the day before (he was most certainly the star and center stage of what everyone knew would be his last time with them), and then withdrew its added vitality by moving out of orb less than half an hour before he died. Simultaneously, the Sun moved into semi-square with his natal Saturn (56' orb), a stunning hand-off!
All of the above are exactly appropriate transits for the event.
SECONDARY PROGRESSIONS
p. Saturn op. p. Pluto (11' ap., but very long term; also r. PL 26')
p. Moon sqq. p. Neptune (36' sep.)
p. MC op. r. Jupiter (53' sep.)
p. Mars sq. r. Venus (11' ap.)
p. Mercury trine r. Neptune (2' sep.)
Progressed Sun was separated from semi-square to natal Mars by 62'. That means that it had left this two-year aspect less than a month before his death. The progression of Sun to Mars can be physically painful yet, more commonly rouses the fighting spirit and bestows energy and vitality. I suspect he benefitted from this in the two years leading up to this month, and then (as with the transit of Sun across his natal Midheaven) the energy was withdrawn.
All of the above are totally appropriate for death except, perhaps, two of them. Though Jupiter is hardly an absent planet for death, the two-year progression of the Midheaven past Jupiter (nearly expired) was surely the renewal of Dallas and what by all accounts were two great years of his life. Mars' progression to Venus is a little strange (or at least ambiguous) because it's an aspect that clings to physical life mightily and vibrantly.
Two transits to his progressed planets are worth mentioning:
t. Pluto conj. p. Mercury (30' sep.) - probably existential reflections
t. Sun sqq. p. Uranus (8' sep.) - I leave this for everyone to interpret on their own
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:34 pm by Jim Eshelman
SIDEREAL SOLAR RETURN
His SSR for September 21, 2012 was painful and withering. I don't know the history of his throat cancer - how much pain he was in, whether he had undergone surgeries, whether he was on chemo or radiation treatment - but the SSR has the marks of all of these cancer variations. The most angular planet is t. Neptune, 23' from the IC (or 8' in RA). Transiting Mars was rising (3 1/2 degrees above the horizon, thus in paran - i.e., wide enough to be a mundane aspect with both on the angles - to the Neptune). Natal Neptune was 6 degrees off the MC.
Another touch worth mentioning, though this is more in the "learning something, being exploratory" vein: Though t. Pluto was 6 degrees from the Antivertex in longitude, it was only 10' in Azimuth from due east, i.e., mundanely exactly on the PV. We aren't used to looking at Vertex/Antivertex aspects this, but I've begun to in an exploratory way. This means that Pluto was only 10' from being exactly on the Prime Vertcal. I'm especially interested in these placements when they are forming parans, since any planet on the PV (mundanely on Vx-AVx) is at right angles to any planet exactly on the meridian or horizon. In this case - esasy to see if you redraw the SSR in azimuth instead of longitude or PV longitude - there is a 33' square between Neptune and Pluto exactly on its angles. I'd count this as a true Neptune-Pluto paran in the SSR.
TRANSITS TO THE SSR
t. Pluto sq. s. Mercury (8' ap.) - Again, I'd read this as existential considerations, having the underpinnings of his normal way of looking at things uprooted.
t. Neptune op. s. MC (59' ap.) - Having retrograded away, it had just moved back within orb.
t. Mars ssq. s. Mars (48' sep.)
t. Sun sq. s. Neptune (51' sep.), sq. s. MC (28' sep.)
t. Mercury conj. s. Mars (6' ap.)
All of these are appropriate (or at least appropriate enough), and don't need any more comment.
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:53 pm by Jim Eshelman
SIDEREAL LUNAR RETURN
November 18, 2012, 3:11:57 PM CST, Dallas, TX
The closest planet to an angle is t. Pluto within a degree of the MC. Also, both r. and t. Uranuses are within a few degrees of the Ascendant (both under 5 degrees in mundo. Thirdly, t. Venus is widely in the setting foreground (under 10 degrees).
The main message is the t. Pluto. The rest mostly shows surprises, changes, etc. Transiting Venus and/or Jupiter in the foreground for death from cancer is extremely common and, in any case, the family Thanksgiving the day before and the conditions of death (surrounded by family and closest friends) is quite consistent with the foreground Venus.
KINETIC LUNAR RETURN
November 17. His progressed Saturn-Pluto opposition (ony 11' wide), reinforced by p. Moon, is right across the horizon. Transiting Uranus is 15' from the MC, while p. Uranus is on the Zenith. A middleground transiting Venuys exact squares progressed Moon. Progressed Mars is exactly on the Westpoint. Natal Saturn is mere minutes from the Descendant.
OTHER KINETIC RETURNS
While contemplating the Kinetics, the KSR of December 11, 2011 had progressed Saturn-Pluto near the horizon as well, and a Jupiter-Saturn opposite square the Ascendant - each of them having about the same orb (ASC=JU/SA: per Ebertin, changes of circumstances and, generally, a separation; I think we can more broadly see the pro-and-con year he had).
His Demi-KSR of June 10 had the Moon exactly rising (ecliptically; in mundo, it was 5 degrees from the angle) and only 2 degrees from conjunct Neptune. Transiting Venus is on the IC square p. Neptune setting. Solar Mars is on the Vertex and partile square the Sun; we can also call it a paran to the Venus (Venus east of IC, Mars north of PV). All in all, a mixed bag.
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:58 pm by Jim Eshelman
ENNEAD
October 31. Transiting Pluto is just above the Descendant. Mars is on the Westpoint and (more exactly) square the MV within 11'.
DEMI-ENNEAD
November 20. Jupiter rising square his natal Mercury. A Sun-Neptune square on the angles. Totally consistent with short-term returns (such as SLRs or, in this case, the 20-day Demi-Enny) for the end of the road on cancer.
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:07 pm by Jim Eshelman
Now let'ssee how many Quotidians I can plow through before I have to run out the door.
SNQ2
Asc 8 CAN 05. MC 28 PIS 42. EP 25 GEM 25.
The progressed Saturn-Puto opposition (already foreground in the KLR) is partile square the MC. T. Venus just on the edge of partile orb of the Nadir. DEad-on hit.
SNQ1
Asc 16 ARI 37. MC 3 CAP 47. EP 8 ARI 02.
No hits.
SQ
Asc 24 SAG 06. MC 13 LIB 11. EP 8 CAP 31.
r. Uranus on the Nadir (17'). Nothing else. In this case, the Neo-SQ shown earlier is much better. - SQ Moon 21 Sco 50 is 38' from op. SQ Jupiter.
I don't have time to do the PSSR before leaving the house, so I'll have to get back to it later.
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:18 am by Jim Eshelman
Finishing with the final quotidian:
PSSR
Asc 9 Cap 34. MC 27 Lib14. EP 22 Cap 22.
PSSR Venus 22 Can 01 is on the EP (also s. Venus 21 Can 46)
r. Moon 10 Cap 21 is on the Asc (ecliptic)
t. Mars 9 Lib 17 is on the Zenith
Fits the minimal requirements, but a bit mixed.
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Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:45 pm by StarAgeWiz
Larry Hagman
9/21/1931
4:20 pm -AA-
Fort Worth, TX
neo-SSQ calc. for residence Dallas, TX 11/23/12.. Death!
Bi-Wheel inner/SSQ, outer/Natal.... *(Tri-Wheel too blurry to post)
Tr. Saturn 11/23/12 10LI53 conj. SSQ MC conj. Natal Mars paran-SQ Natal Saturn exact conj. SSQ ASC.
Attachments
Larry Hagman SSQ.png
Hagman dies at 81 yrs old with throat cancer.
Larry Hagman SSQ.png (14.99 KB) Viewed 1276 times Post details | Select:
Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:09 am by SteveS
Mike wrote:
Tr. Saturn 11/23/12 10LI53 conj. SSQ MC conj. Natal Mars paran-SQ Natal Saturn exact conj. SSQ ASC.
Ebertin from COSI on one of the negative manifestations for Mars-Saturn symbolism:
Cases of Death.
The p. Q angles were the prime timing indicator for the day of death.
Post details | Select:
Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:53 pm by Jim Eshelman
That's a striking example. I'd like to di some more.
Do you have a time for his death?
Post details | Select:
Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:01 pm by Jim Eshelman
I've looked around, can't find a time for death on Friday. Absent better information coming, I'll use a death timing of November 23, 2012, 12:00 PM, Dallas, TX.
BTW, that's one of the best examples of a Neo-SQ I've ever seen. (I object to the term SSQ, since that's a highly non-standard name that neglects two of Fagan's naming conventions. But I figured out what you mean.) Since that technique normally fails miserably compared to the mean rate SQ, I'm very interested in examining a larger picture.
TRANSITS TO THE NATAL CHART
t. Neptune sq. r. MC (26' ap.)
t. Saturn sq. r. Moon (32' sep)
The Sun had just left (61' orb) conjunction with his natal MC. The transit had surely dominated the family Thanksgiving gathering the day before (he was most certainly the star and center stage of what everyone knew would be his last time with them), and then withdrew its added vitality by moving out of orb less than half an hour before he died. Simultaneously, the Sun moved into semi-square with his natal Saturn (56' orb), a stunning hand-off!
All of the above are exactly appropriate transits for the event.
SECONDARY PROGRESSIONS
p. Saturn op. p. Pluto (11' ap., but very long term; also r. PL 26')
p. Moon sqq. p. Neptune (36' sep.)
p. MC op. r. Jupiter (53' sep.)
p. Mars sq. r. Venus (11' ap.)
p. Mercury trine r. Neptune (2' sep.)
Progressed Sun was separated from semi-square to natal Mars by 62'. That means that it had left this two-year aspect less than a month before his death. The progression of Sun to Mars can be physically painful yet, more commonly rouses the fighting spirit and bestows energy and vitality. I suspect he benefitted from this in the two years leading up to this month, and then (as with the transit of Sun across his natal Midheaven) the energy was withdrawn.
All of the above are totally appropriate for death except, perhaps, two of them. Though Jupiter is hardly an absent planet for death, the two-year progression of the Midheaven past Jupiter (nearly expired) was surely the renewal of Dallas and what by all accounts were two great years of his life. Mars' progression to Venus is a little strange (or at least ambiguous) because it's an aspect that clings to physical life mightily and vibrantly.
Two transits to his progressed planets are worth mentioning:
t. Pluto conj. p. Mercury (30' sep.) - probably existential reflections
t. Sun sqq. p. Uranus (8' sep.) - I leave this for everyone to interpret on their own
Post details | Select:
Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:34 pm by Jim Eshelman
SIDEREAL SOLAR RETURN
His SSR for September 21, 2012 was painful and withering. I don't know the history of his throat cancer - how much pain he was in, whether he had undergone surgeries, whether he was on chemo or radiation treatment - but the SSR has the marks of all of these cancer variations. The most angular planet is t. Neptune, 23' from the IC (or 8' in RA). Transiting Mars was rising (3 1/2 degrees above the horizon, thus in paran - i.e., wide enough to be a mundane aspect with both on the angles - to the Neptune). Natal Neptune was 6 degrees off the MC.
Another touch worth mentioning, though this is more in the "learning something, being exploratory" vein: Though t. Pluto was 6 degrees from the Antivertex in longitude, it was only 10' in Azimuth from due east, i.e., mundanely exactly on the PV. We aren't used to looking at Vertex/Antivertex aspects this, but I've begun to in an exploratory way. This means that Pluto was only 10' from being exactly on the Prime Vertcal. I'm especially interested in these placements when they are forming parans, since any planet on the PV (mundanely on Vx-AVx) is at right angles to any planet exactly on the meridian or horizon. In this case - esasy to see if you redraw the SSR in azimuth instead of longitude or PV longitude - there is a 33' square between Neptune and Pluto exactly on its angles. I'd count this as a true Neptune-Pluto paran in the SSR.
TRANSITS TO THE SSR
t. Pluto sq. s. Mercury (8' ap.) - Again, I'd read this as existential considerations, having the underpinnings of his normal way of looking at things uprooted.
t. Neptune op. s. MC (59' ap.) - Having retrograded away, it had just moved back within orb.
t. Mars ssq. s. Mars (48' sep.)
t. Sun sq. s. Neptune (51' sep.), sq. s. MC (28' sep.)
t. Mercury conj. s. Mars (6' ap.)
All of these are appropriate (or at least appropriate enough), and don't need any more comment.
Post details | Select:
Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:53 pm by Jim Eshelman
SIDEREAL LUNAR RETURN
November 18, 2012, 3:11:57 PM CST, Dallas, TX
The closest planet to an angle is t. Pluto within a degree of the MC. Also, both r. and t. Uranuses are within a few degrees of the Ascendant (both under 5 degrees in mundo. Thirdly, t. Venus is widely in the setting foreground (under 10 degrees).
The main message is the t. Pluto. The rest mostly shows surprises, changes, etc. Transiting Venus and/or Jupiter in the foreground for death from cancer is extremely common and, in any case, the family Thanksgiving the day before and the conditions of death (surrounded by family and closest friends) is quite consistent with the foreground Venus.
KINETIC LUNAR RETURN
November 17. His progressed Saturn-Pluto opposition (ony 11' wide), reinforced by p. Moon, is right across the horizon. Transiting Uranus is 15' from the MC, while p. Uranus is on the Zenith. A middleground transiting Venuys exact squares progressed Moon. Progressed Mars is exactly on the Westpoint. Natal Saturn is mere minutes from the Descendant.
OTHER KINETIC RETURNS
While contemplating the Kinetics, the KSR of December 11, 2011 had progressed Saturn-Pluto near the horizon as well, and a Jupiter-Saturn opposite square the Ascendant - each of them having about the same orb (ASC=JU/SA: per Ebertin, changes of circumstances and, generally, a separation; I think we can more broadly see the pro-and-con year he had).
His Demi-KSR of June 10 had the Moon exactly rising (ecliptically; in mundo, it was 5 degrees from the angle) and only 2 degrees from conjunct Neptune. Transiting Venus is on the IC square p. Neptune setting. Solar Mars is on the Vertex and partile square the Sun; we can also call it a paran to the Venus (Venus east of IC, Mars north of PV). All in all, a mixed bag.
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Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:58 pm by Jim Eshelman
ENNEAD
October 31. Transiting Pluto is just above the Descendant. Mars is on the Westpoint and (more exactly) square the MV within 11'.
DEMI-ENNEAD
November 20. Jupiter rising square his natal Mercury. A Sun-Neptune square on the angles. Totally consistent with short-term returns (such as SLRs or, in this case, the 20-day Demi-Enny) for the end of the road on cancer.
Post details | Select:
Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:07 pm by Jim Eshelman
Now let'ssee how many Quotidians I can plow through before I have to run out the door.
SNQ2
Asc 8 CAN 05. MC 28 PIS 42. EP 25 GEM 25.
The progressed Saturn-Puto opposition (already foreground in the KLR) is partile square the MC. T. Venus just on the edge of partile orb of the Nadir. DEad-on hit.
SNQ1
Asc 16 ARI 37. MC 3 CAP 47. EP 8 ARI 02.
No hits.
SQ
Asc 24 SAG 06. MC 13 LIB 11. EP 8 CAP 31.
r. Uranus on the Nadir (17'). Nothing else. In this case, the Neo-SQ shown earlier is much better. - SQ Moon 21 Sco 50 is 38' from op. SQ Jupiter.
I don't have time to do the PSSR before leaving the house, so I'll have to get back to it later.
Post details | Select:
Re: Larry Hagman (final) SSQ
Post Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:18 am by Jim Eshelman
Finishing with the final quotidian:
PSSR
Asc 9 Cap 34. MC 27 Lib14. EP 22 Cap 22.
PSSR Venus 22 Can 01 is on the EP (also s. Venus 21 Can 46)
r. Moon 10 Cap 21 is on the Asc (ecliptic)
t. Mars 9 Lib 17 is on the Zenith
Fits the minimal requirements, but a bit mixed.