United Kingdom referendum

[Freya]

Jan 24, 2016
I'm new to mundane astrology and still learning it.... I just wanted to know if the possibility of the United Kingdom leaving the EU this year, through a referendum, can be seen through mundane astrology, and what the likely symbolism would be? The decision is final. I remember Jim saying something about isolation and separation for England during the last elections, if I am not mistaken...

[Freya]

There is a referendum, the first and last in 40 years, to decide whether the UK will leave the European Union, and its decision will be final. They think it will be in June.

[Freya]

Ok it's official now, the EU referendum will be held on the 23 of June. Any thoughts on the outcome based on mundane astrology? Which Cansolar does it come under? Still the one in 2015?

[Freya]

Freya, I note with London’s June 22nd 2016 Caplunar (Master Chart of the Month), there is a foreground partile Saturn-Neptune 90, with Saturn 3,25 cnj IC. Saturn-Neptune is par-excellent symbolism for any types of “Removals”. Also I note a tight angular partile Mercury-Jupiter 90, which prompts me to wonder if the people as a whole want Britain to be removed from the EU?? All the above aspects are in fixed signs which could mean something important as far as an important 'fixed' event. Also, Jim states about prominent Mercury-Jupiter symbolism in Mundane Astrology.

Diplomatic success, commercial alliances, successful conversations and cooperation, major judicial action. A favorable time for conducting business.

[Freya]

Thank you Steve, it is definitely going to be interesting as to the results of the referendum, as mercury-jupiter and the will of the people. TBH, I don't know whether choosing isolation rather than integration is the way forward, mundane astrology seems pretty clear as to the end result.

[Freya]

Jim's work with Sidereal Mundane Astrology is an amazing piece of work. London's June 22nd 2016 Caplunar is a very potent/dynamic ingress chart, with very strong angular symbolism with partile dynamic aspects. IMO, this Caplunar has very high % for timing a very important event. Freya, keep us informed on the news associated with the issues pertaining to Britain's possible referendum for withdrawing from the EU.

[Freya]

Looks like the average of recent weeks polls are showing a majority for remaining within the EU, but there is a group of undecided.
There is still one month to go for each side for their propaganda campaigns.

If the UK exits, it may leave them as split up - since Scotland and Ireland do want to stay within the EU.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/eu ... uk-7699714

[Freya]

Jun 24, 2016
So the UK has voted to leave the EU... looks like the prediction was right. The Scots now want a second independence referendum...who knows if this time they will leave the UK! So definitely a separating effect is taking place

[Freya]

Freya asked the following question with her beginning thread:

I just wanted to know if the possibility of the United Kingdom leaving the EU this year, through a referendum, can be seen through mundane astrology…

A most excellent question!! And as we can now see UK’s exit has affected the whole world through major markets. I have studied mundane astrology for 35 years and the only branch of mundane astrology that can come close to accurately predicting Brexit's Vote with high % is SMA through angularity and the intrinsic symbolic meanings of the planets in out solar system. When a major event is scheduled it is very easy to isolate a major SMA event chart with Jim’s SMA teachings, but what is somewhat difficult is to properly interrupt the non-dormant angular aspects as to what it means for the actual manifestation for the scheduled event. The short term SMA London charts (June 22 Caplunar-Weekly & Monthly charts and the June 23 CapQ—Day Chart) for Brexit are classic non-dormant angular event charts. There was major angular Saturn-Neptune symbolism in the Caplunar and CapQ charts, offering a double whammy of angular Saturn-Neptune symbolism Bradley, a great Siderealist, taught us long ago that the “keyword” for angular Saturn-Neptune is “removal,” and as we now know UK voted to be removed from the EU. The acute angular symbolism of Mercury-Jupiter in the Caplunar was somewhat tricky to interrupt. I interrupted this Mercury-Jupiter symbolism as a majority (Jupiter) vote (Mercury-Communication) the people would vote to exit. Bradley says the “keyword” for Mercury-Jupiter is: “commerce” and “big deals,” and we can now see how Brexit affected world “commerce,” and became a “big deal” for world headline news. We could also now interrupt this Mercury-Jupiter as big (Jupiter) world headline news (Mercury.) I know this for sure: This Brexit vote offers classic SMA learning with par-excellent angular planetary symbolism with partile aspects. Again, I must quote Jim’s words from his original teachings in the 70’s:

It is when angularity and aspect partility coincide that outstanding incidents are most likely to come about.

And it must be understood by the astrologer: Bradley's SVP (Synectic Vernal Point) offers the accurate astronomy and math for producing mundane charts where the serious Sidereal Astrologer knows the angles are precise. IMO, Bradley's SVP is the greatest discovery ever in the field of mundane astrology.

[Freya]

Any thoughts on how this translates to the City of London (which voted strongly to stay) vs. the capital of the UK (which voted slightly to leave)? Is there a way to get city-level predictions or does the national seat overwhelm anything we might see there?

[Freya]

Any thoughts on how this translates to the City of London (which voted strongly to stay) vs. the capital of the UK (which voted slightly to leave)? Is there a way to get city-level predictions or does the national seat overwhelm anything we might see there?

Fascinating question. I have a couple of thought, but they're just thoughts. (BTW, I knew Scotland had strongly voted to stay, I didn't know London had.)

The broader one is that mundane astrology operates on the level of "lowest common denominator," which is another way of saying the largest collective. In one sense, "Why the nation instead of the city?" is a variation of the question, "Why the nation instead of the individual person?" London as a city, in this seemingly correct perspective, is just another discrete unit with little "entitlement" to have its "individual" p.o.v. reflected in the mass-consciousness charts than.

The other point of view is that there is one type of mundane chart that, in prior studies, has shown as a local chart far better than as a national chart. I speak of the Arisolar, which, when we compare local vs. Washington versions for a series of late April events (all but one of which was away from Washington), the Arisolars for the event site perform way better than the often poor Arisolars for the capital. If this is a valid generalization, it might be a way sometimes to distinguish "Washington as a local town" from "Washington as the national ego center" - or, in the case under discussion, London. I mention this because the Arisolar is the Quarter chart in operation for this event, and it has Sun on Midheaven. It's quotidian progression for the Brexit election also retained transiting Sun on MC. While this isn't a slam-dunk for "stay," (1) it is quite different from the departure symbolism shown in the more primary charts, and (2) seems more Bremain-inclined because it speaks first of royalty and adherence to authority views, and second to the broader idea of being aware of, if not yielding to, a centralized hub of a larger system, i.e., a "hub" of general European government.

This is just thinking out loud.

[Freya]

You may also want to check on Brussels, since it is the capital of the EU.

I don't have my SolarFire set up anymore, since I am on my way to Scotland in two days.
The Scots may want to break away from the UK and become independent now.

[Freya]

Nov 21, 2016

So, now we know that Brexit is on the table. We also know that the Supreme Court of UK has said that the government can not go ahead with the Brexit negotiations and process before they have a majority vote from the parliament. We also know that IF Brexit will indeed happen (I am not sure it will) - then it will take a long time, probably up to two years.

I just looked into 2017 CapSolar ingress and it does not look too bad. But then I casted the 2018 Capsolar ingress and that is kind of alarming. Although there seems to be no angular planet, the Capsolar Moon is conjunct Saturn which is sextile Neptune. That may be an economic downturn and the actual Brexit year.
But then in 2019 the Capsolar shows Saturn on MC and Uranus partile ASC and it squares the Sun. Some surprising changes that year.

Jim and others, do you have any comments on the whole Brexit thing and the economic state of UK in coming years?

[Freya]

But then I casted the 2018 Capsolar ingress and that is kind of alarming. Although there seems to be no angular planet, the Capsolar Moon is conjunct Saturn which is sextile Neptune. That may be an economic downturn and the actual Brexit year.
But then in 2019 the Capsolar shows Saturn on MC and Uranus partile ASC and it squares the Sun. Some surprising changes that year.

For comments on Brexit, I just have the newspapers which, from the beginning, said it would, at best, take several years to implement.

As for the 2018 Capsolar, it's not dormant at all for England. In London, Neptune squares Ascendant (0°53'). Then, add the Moon-Saturn conjunction (1°36') universal to the world, and it's a difficult year for the world in general and London in particular. (See the basic definition sections in SMA for these two features. I agree that economic downturn is one definite likelihood.)

The 2019 has:

Uranus on Asc (0°52')
Mars sq. MC (1°17')
Sun sq. Asc (2°30')
Saturn on MC (7°20')
Moon on Asc (9°07')
Moon-Saturn sq. (1°47' in mundo)

This time, the Moon-Saturn, being mundane, is distinctive to London, and not universally shared by the world. It is more focused, and it's clearly attached to very significant change. The Mars is worrisome in various ways, including the fact that both of these charts are also consistent with war.

[Freya]

Indeed it is worrying. The Moon-Saturn conjunction for 2018 might be a sign that there will be a world crisis again, like we had in 2008. The economic downfall might be happening next year, 2017 - and then the aftermath where people are suffering would be in 2018. I suspect it is coming.

Robert Kiyosaki predicted a crash would come in 2007, it came in 2008. He has predicted another crash in 2016 - it may happen a year later. As we've seen in the movie The Big Short - the markets and the banks can hold out a play for a long time, even though the house of cards already has fallen.

We saw a wider Moon-Saturn conjunction for the world in 2009 Capsolar, the aftermath of the crash - this time around it is a much closer aspect ecliptically.

I hope you guys can prepare this time around. Sell stocks if you have them and then buy real estate if you can for rental income in case you lose your job/income.
I'm starting my preparations now.

I am not sure how interested you people are in economics. But I find Robert's video's interesting. He is telling people to prepare if they can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZAziy-wfWE

And some interesting stuff from New Economic Thinking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY3Qxm6BoUI

[Freya]

To put the Moon-Saturn aspects into perspective... Even though Saturn, Neptune, and Sun dominate the ingresses for financial crises, Moon-Saturn aspects in particular aren't among the most common. They fall about in the middle. I'm not sure I take a lot of comfort from that fact, though.

Here is my "packaged" concise interpretation for Moon-Saturn mundanely:

Hardship, sacrifice, loss, and sadness. Among events linked to this are war, structural collapses, and other events focused on death and its horror, with little to inspire celebration. Add the possibility of natural disasters, fires, bereavement for widely beloved figures, deprivation and disappointment, destructive assaults by human and nature, and other conditions of general hardship primarily focused on alienation and divisiveness, vast property damage, and significant loss of life.

I can break that down a bit more (or "unpack" the summary).

Moon-Saturn aspects occur for events involving hardship, sacrifice, loss, and sadness. In particular:

EARTHQUAKES: Mars, Saturn, and Neptune most commonly aspect Moon, just as Mars and Saturn are the two planets most often angular.
HURRICANES: Second only to Moon-Pluto.
WAR: Saturn is active (by angularity and Moon-Saturn aspects) in war-initiating events, likely as a promise of death, hardship, and sacrifice.
WARLIKE ATTACKS: Additionally, this is the most common Moon aspect for war-like attacks outside of declared war.
NOT PEACE: In contrast, Saturn (by angularity and Moon aspects) is essentially absent for events restoring or establishing peace.
NOT SPACE TRAVEL: Moon-Saturn is the least common Moon aspect for landmark space missions, which broadly show as victorious, celebratory events.
NOT VEHICULAR CATASTROPHES: Moon-Saturn and Moon-Venus aspects are nearly absent for these. (Moon-Mars aspects are highest.)
EXPLOSIONS: Moon-Saturn and Moon-Pluto are most common for the collection of non-bomb explosions.
MASS KILLING: Saturn, by angularity and Moon aspects, joins Neptune and Pluto to mark the stark, senses-staggering, violent tragedy of shootings and other mass murders – events that, evidently, are more about the death and horror than the violence.
MASSACRES: Sun, Saturn, and Pluto most commonly aspect Moon.
STRUCTURAL COLLAPSES. With Moon-Neptune and Moon-Sun aspects, Moon-Saturn has a very high frequency.

Additionally, the examples compiled include diverse tragedies similar to those coinciding with Saturn angular: natural disasters, many major fires, environmental disasters, bereavement for widely beloved figures, deprivation and disappointment, destructive assaults by human and nature, and conditions of general hardship primarily focused on alienation and divisiveness, vast property damage, and significant loss of life. Moon-Saturn aspects are the most common lunar aspects for the 10 worst loss of life disasters studied, and second most common (after Moon-Neptune) for the 10 worst property damage events studied.

[Freya]

I see what you are saying. The Moon-Saturn might mean some kind of disasters other than economic crash.

I just remind that we saw a Moon-Saturn conjunction in 2009 aftermath of the last crash when people felt the hardship, loss of jobs, loss of homes etc.

We also saw Jupiter-Neptune aspects around the 1929 crash and Jupiter-Neptune-Saturn in 1930 ...and we see it again coming up in 2019.

[Freya]

The 2009 Capsolar Moon-Saturn conjunction is far wider than we're used to seeing these work in ingresses (almost 6°). However, Saturn did transit that Moon from about March to July.

The Moon-Uranus opposition was closer and the only universal aspect within operative.

For the U.S., Neptune was on MC (and Venus square Ascendant).

Ah, but in Reykjavik, though Venus is closest to an angle (29'), we also have Moon, Saturn, and Uranus foreground, and their aspects are all within 0°50'. You got a partile Moon-Saturn (+ Uranus) there.