Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

INDEX/LINKS TO INNER PLANET ASPECTS NOTES
Mercury-Venus viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1212
Mercury-Mars viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1213
Mercury-Jupiter viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1214
Mercury-Saturn viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1215
Mercury-Uranus viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1216
Mercury-Neptune viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1217
Mercury-Pluto viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1218
Mercury-Eris viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p36727

Venus-Mars viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1220
Venus-Jupiter viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1221
Venus-Saturn viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1222
Venus-Uranus viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1223
Venus-Neptune viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1224
Venus-Pluto viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1225
Venus-Eris viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p36728

Mars-Jupiter viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1227
Mars-Saturn viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1228
Mars-Uranus viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1229
Mars-Neptune viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1230
Mars-Pluto viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182#p1231
Mars-Eris viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182&p=36729#p36729

PRINCIPLE: Social engagement, play; or intellect opposed to feeling

MERCURY-VENUS
Gracious expression, charmer, persuasive, maybe even a “sweet talker.” Light-hearted, pleasant. Delights in learning (learns easily). Probably a happy childhood; retains a playful, childlike sense, a charm of immaturity.

• Gracious expression, charmer, light-hearted, pleasant, often poetic, maybe a “sweet talk-er.”
• Ingratiating, persuasive, even enchanting: This serves them socially and in most lines of business (but equally serves swindlers, scammers, and others with nefarious motives).
• Delights in learning (learns easily).
• Probably a happy childhood. Retains a playful, childlike sense, a charm of immaturity.
• Singers (sometimes with angelic voices), musicians, creators, and performers of great talent (especially in theater or other live stage).

NOTE May 2017: I now question the whole "artistic expression" side. Good in theory and history, doesn't show in people I actually know or any stats I know, nor (except as stated above) for famous examples.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:The mind is sweet, tactful, and gentle in speech, poetic with a penchant for belles lettres and the arts, and given to acts of kindness and charity.

PRINCIPLE: Aggressive intellect, mental & power needs combined

MERCURY-MARS
Mind is high-powered, quick, dynamic, strategic. Physical and mental responses are both fast. Forthright, candid, speaks directly, independent of thought, enjoys a good argument (mental/verbal competition). Predominantly a creative type. Quick wit, edgy sense of humor. Talent with hands. Prone to irritability, nervous frustration, fault-finding, obstinacy, opinionation. High vulnerability to addiction.

Celebrities who had serious money problems (small pilot) had more of these aspects than any other. (Was it drugs and alcohol? Reckless living? Other?)

GARTH ALLEN wrote:Now the thing that characterizes Martian and Mercurian personalities in general is their excess of nervous energy, visible in their everyday habits, attitudes, and mannerisms. Talkativeness is characteristic, with an endless flow of opinions about everything under the sun. There is also an evident inclination toward youthfulness and what psychologists call "childish regressions" in such types... We should also call attention to... the aspect activity involved at the births of creative people, primarily artists and sculptors... In substance this means that Mercury and Mars influences in combination are primarily a "creative" factor, conducive toward talent of one kind or another.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:The mind is inclined to competition, such as war and sports or all things mechanical. Exulting in its own strength, it joys in destruction for its own sake and delights in splitting hairs in an argument.

STATISTICS wrote:"Talent aspect." Creative people, primarily painters and sculptors (Bradley)

Very low for professional athletes (Bradley)

Alcoholism (Bradley)

Very common for violent criminals per Carter, who wrote that Mercury-Mars or Mercury-Uranus aspects appeared in almost every chart.

A very common chart factor for men with frequent erectile failure (Eshelman & King)

In employment start charts, only 1 of the 15 examples were rated poor - they were productive, got their job done, were busy! (Quellas)

Notebook #93 observations: (CONJUNCTION) Two types stand out in my notebooks: One type, which "plays better with other children," is the creative artist. The other type, without overt artistic expression, is very dialectic and conflictual, and seems to need ongoing sparring in their community for them to be comfortable.
(OPPOSITION-SQUARE) All strongly independent of thought and word.
(TRINE-SEXTILE) Charmers!

PRINCIPLE: Advantage of intellect, quality mind, success with words

MERCURY-JUPITER
Love of ideas and learning. Easy “way with words,” comfortable speaking, reassuring in speech and manner. Well-formed speech has marks of a good education (whether true or not). Good-tempered, kind; may seem shallower than they are. Optimistic, religious-style thinking, e.g., “gambler’s roll” (don’t disturb their “hope & vision” with contradictory facts!). Good business potential (perhaps from raw luck more than skill) and always looking for the next opportunity or lucky break. Poorly suited to fixed schedule or routine.

Notebook #93 observations: (OPPOSITION-SQUARE) Flourish in an environment that is educational or otherwise nurtures their minds. - Can almost bizarrely appear to be shallow and flighty and "empty," even though that isn't a real measure of their intelligence or other capabilities. (TRINE-SEXTILE) Intelligent with a well-read (but not particularly scholarly) edge.

Celebrities who had serious money problems (small pilot) had an excess of these aspects. I'd normally expect giftedness in business, but there are evidently other Mercury-Jupiter traits that can lead to troubles such as inattentiveness, too much reliance on luck, etc. (I'm guessing at the cause. Worth watching.)

GARTH ALLEN wrote:People born with Mercury-Jupiter aspects in their horoscopes are possessed by a desire to assimilate new information continually, enlarge the scope of their knowledge. Consequently, they have out-reaching personalities. They tend toward optimism and a distaste for routine and are forever postponing decisions in anticipation of lucky breaks which, miraculously, do happen, only to lead toward a renewed expectancy of the future. This is why many of them view the prospect of marriage as an obstacle to their free-wheeling sojourn through life.

GARTH ALLEN wrote:Mercury-Jupiter... endows a thirst for intellectual expansion while at the same time instilling a natural respect for the amenities and protocol - two penchants essentially alien to each other no matter what the dean claims.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:The mind inclines to all things which make for exaltation and betterment, according to the native's point of view, such as theology, statesmanship, consular service, politics, law, and university life. The speech is cultured and polished. Should Mars be configured with Jupiter it is inclined to be more gruff, boisterous, and militant.

James Braha wrote:...there is the peculiar matter of Mercury and Jupiter harming each other when tightly conjunct or opposite. Because the two planets are benefic by nature, I believed their mutual aspects were extremely positive. However, many clients reported the opposite. While they always had wonderful creativity and communicative talents, they also had all kinds of troubles connected to significations of the planets (nervous system for Mercury, allergies or religious problems for Jupiter, etc.)... For many years, as I kept witnessing tight Mercury-Jupiter aspects causing trouble, I assumed they were anomalies relating to the fact that astrology in practice is imperfect... Eventually, however, it became clear that the essential natures of these planets are so intensely dissimilar that they do not work well together. In practice these two benefics always damage each other when closely conjunct or opposite.

Barack Obama wrote:If I hadn't gone into politics... the challenges of creating a business and making it work would probably be the thing that was most interesting to me. [Mercury opposite Jupiter is his most distinctive aspect. - JAE]

STATISTICS wrote:Few murderers (Bradley); therefore apparently high frustration tolerance.

Common among lifelong eminent bachelors (Bradley)

Virtually absent in my personal collection of psychotherapist charts.

77% of rape victims (Davis). However, that was 93% of the murdered rape victims and only 65% of those who survived.

PRINCIPLE: Ordered thought, mental labor, restricted communication

MERCURY-SATURN
Organizes and formats information in orderly arrangements. (Often blazingly quick thinkers once the framework is established.) Methodical, logical, often routinized thinking processes. Skeptical, scrutinizing (distrustful). Obstinate in the absence of new evidence. Hesitant until oriented, then decisive, e.g., learning starts slowly, then catch up quickly. Gifted with considerable mental power, but easily discouraged (doubting). Treats life seriously. Needs to learn how to play.

(Query: Tendency to be "bad-mouthed" by others? I'm not sure public examples support this overall.)

Notebook #93 observations: (OPPOSITION-SQUARE) Personal insecurity and self-doubt is a significant feature. (Possibly also present, but less reliably, with the Conjunction.)

GARTH ALLEN wrote:Mercury-Saturn people... are security-minded and find contentment in settling down to the routine and restrictive nature of married life. Instead of a habitual expectancy of the future windfall [of Mercury-Jupiter], they are not psychologically inclined to heed the call of adventure or the beck of Lady Luck, for they are cautious to the point where the future appears dismal to them - and will be unless they store up grain against the day of famine. In other words, while they may not be chin-dragging pessimists, there is something in their Mercury-Saturn complex which seeks insurance for the physical and assurance for their hesitant minds. Marriage - with its attendant overtones of economic responsibility - and parenthood - with its automatic guarantees, in the average case, of security in old age - come as a natural bent to the Mercury-Saturn way of thinking.

STATISTICS wrote:Strongest Mercury aspect for 99 heads of states (Eshelman)
Low incidence among lifelong eminent bachelors (Bradley)
Least represented aspect among rape victims (13%)

In employment start charts, most common Mercury aspect, about 50-50 good/bad rating - workers displayed both the good and bad sides of Mercury-Saturn (Quellas)

PRINCIPLE: Mental renewal, independent mind, discovery, surprise

MERCURY-URANUS
Independent thinker. Curiosity and investigative spirit in most things. Mind unfettered by formality and standards, solves problems and integrates data more intuitively. Rejects linearity, lacks rigor in learning. Many interests, diverse, often unusual (including astrology or occultism). Speech engages others’ attention, usually has something interesting to say; challenges convention or authority, dares to speak despite consequences. Gentle rebellious behavior (“bad boy/girl”) seems rooted in, “Don’t tell me how to think.” Socially odd, but not ostracized for it.

GARTH ALLEN wrote:In Mercury-Uranus we meet a mind that is ever on the lookout for contradiction, because the coupling instills a Freedom From Stereotype. Enjoying every challenge to his ingenuity, the native is often very handy with his hands. Naturally free of a sense of loyalty to teacher and despising scholasticism as such, the Mercury-Uranus individual tries always to view things materialistically, even though he may believe otherwise, for it is important to him that autistic thinking never be allowed to fog realities. There is danger, though, of superficiality and of too easily getting sidetracked through lack of sustaining faith. He takes pleasure in startling with lurid words and unusual presentations. Mercury-Uranus is the Alibi Ike complex personified: it can invent excuses and clever reasons for anything on the spur of the moment - and get believed instantly. In a way, its very lack of rigidity, its freedom from stereotyped formulas, makes Mercury-Uranus a desirable configuration.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:The mind is inclined to see the novel point of view, is extremely witty, quick in repartee and adroit in saying the unexpected to the delight or chagrin of others.

Notebook #93 observations: Some indication that they don't deeply connect to people and groups, and do better when they can participate from a distance.

STATISTICS wrote:The only Mercury aspect where Siderealists are more common than Tropicalists (Eshelman)

Very common for violent criminals (Carter) - he wrote that Mercury-Mars or Mercury-Uranus was present in almost every chart in the sample.

M.C. Jain found this almost always present for "gays and other deviants." There is very little to suggest this in my list, though an interestingly high number of bisexuals do show. Suspect it is "investigative spirit."

PRINCIPLES: Reason & unreason, enthrallment, deception

MERCURY-NEPTUNE
Dreamers, story-tellers, can enthuse-enroll others and convince someone of almost anything. Hyper-responsive to environment and perceptions, extreme sensitivity to sensory impressions (may include psychism). Magnifies trivialities, fixates on particulars (often perfectionists); thus, often uncanny memories. Loves puzzle- or problem-solving, often in fantasy modelling; gets much pleasure and psychological relief from fantasied problem solving. However, commonly avoids own real problems by obsessing over fantasy problems. Many adapt readily to systematized thought-modes of math and science.

FURTHER NOTES:
The mind is one which enjoys solving problems - as long as the "risks" entailed are safe. Lewin spoke of "imaginary locomotions" which tend to show in the OPPOSITION, SQUARE, SEMI-SQUARE, and SESQUI-SQUARE. The person creates a fantasy world wherein he can create a whole series of problems which he can enjoy solving. (The danger would come when that world becomes more real than the "real world.") They solve problems like crazy, but so often these "problems" exist for no one other than themselves. They get vicarious pleasure from fantasized problem-solving. They only want to play with a stacked deck (in their own favor).

GARTH ALLEN wrote:Mercury-Neptune often magnifies trivialities out of all proportion and thus is often found in the charts of those described as perfectionists.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:The mind is highly sensitive and imaginative and inclines to art, symbolism, and mysticism. Being visual i is often blessed with a photographic memory. The native can excel as a clairvoyant or thought reader.

NOTE: U.S. presidents with the hard aspects followed policies that seriously damaged the economy - which did much better under the soft aspect presidents.

STATISTICS wrote:Murderers (Bradley), thus probably low frustration tolerance.

Dominant "in the charts of actors, teachers and others who rely upon memorization for their livelihoods" (Bradley), from which he concluded it is an aspect of excellent memory.

Suicides (Bradley)

79% of murdered rape victims (Davis) - counting transits and progressions, it was present for 100% of all rape incidents studied. In every studied rape case (murdered or surviving), if there was a Mercury-Saturn aspect, there was a closer Mercury-Neptune aspect.

Frequent for prostitutes (Eshelman)

(Ancdotal observation:) Very common (almost every chart) of those who visited Indianapolis "Psychic Holiday" (they came by to get their charts done).

Notebook #93 observations: (CONJUNCTION-OPPOSITION-SQUARE) More exploration is needed here before I can be as specific as I would like; but they seem to be very able-seeming people who turn out to have very colorful, complex, and obstinate psychological problems. They are never what they seem on the surface, definitely much deeper and more complex. Though distinctly pathological, their pathologies are usually so deeply rooted, so much a part of their life long before adulthood, that these do not necessarily spill over to cause harm on the people around them.
(TRINE-SEXTILE) Minds very curious about occultism.

PRINCIPLES: Individual or outlier thought, mental interruption, nervous strain

Thinking is individual, abnormal, reflexively unconventional, ignoring social protocols. Challenging, confrontational (can alienate with words). Extremes: Either forthright, candid, needs frank conversation (probing, investigative, demands answers) or covert, withholding, defending secrets (plotting). Serious-looking, preoccupied, ruminating. Impatient, irritable (poor frustration tolerance, vulnerable to stress or burnout). Instinct for abstract mathematics (great composers, chess players, physicists).

MERCURY-PLUTO

• Thinking is individual, unusual, outlier, unbeholden to convention, dismissive of social protocols (or the law). Perhaps genius.
• The mind skirts the edge of normalcy (and sometimes slips off).
• Reflexively unconventional thought may give an instinct for bizarre comedy (several greatest comedy geniuses), though most are serious, preoccupied, ruminating, even humorless.
• Challenging, confrontational, can alienate with words. – Extremes of communication: either forthright, candid, needing frank conversation or covert, withholding, defending secrets (plotting deceit).
• Investigative, probing, pursues evidence, demands answers. (Sometimes the reverse: subjects of criminal investigations due to fraud.)
• Impatient, irritated by obstacles (weak frustration tolerance, vulnerable to stress or burnout).
• Instinct for abstract mathematics (manifest in mathematicians, great composers, chess players, physicists).

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:Configured with the coldest and most remote of the planets, the mind is attracted to most things which are austere, forbidding, and bizarre. Frequently agnostic, the mind of the native does not function in normal channels. Many, having the mentality of explorers, can live happily in cold and inaccessible places. This configuration is frequently found in the genitures of those vowed to silence or those who work in secret or dare not voice their thoughts to the public. It is not uncommon in the maps of those who have a speech affliction, especially should Pluto be angular.

STATISTICS wrote:Murderers (Bradley); therefore, week frustration tolerance

OBSERVATION: It seems to show an extraordinary number of times for composers and I think of it as an explicitly musical combination. In the examples of great composers it may be showing as an intrinsic element of genius (cf. great composers, abstract mathematicians, and chess grand masters - no real difference!).

OBSERVATION: This seems to give an instinct for comedy. I suspect it is the reflexively unconventional thinking. Those comedic geniuses who come easily to mind are Robin Williams, Andy Kaufman, Dudley Moore, Jerry Lewis, and Lenny Bruce (I'm surprised Carlin isn't on the list, but even he had Mercury in Aries), and other significant comedic talents like Cheech Marin, Chelsea Handler, Mary Tyler Moore, Steve Carrell, and Matt Le Blanc.

Notebook #93 observations: They think deeply about things. Almost a silent brooding about philosophical and ethical issues and about matters of their own behavior; thus a little slow to act strongly and decisively (from second-guessing themselves).
(CONJUNCTION) An emphasis on overkill. Can become almost obsessive about an area of interest, leading either to success or burn-out.

PRINCIPLES: Passion, powerful feeling; affection + aggression

VENUS-MARS
Passion (in all senses), feels powerfully about things. Strong sexual passions mature early, continue late, rarely encumbered by too many conditions. Broadly fun-loving, socially active, loves romance: interesting, likable, sociable, horny people. Relationships, often picked for ferocity, easily hit conflict, strain, or burnout. (More likely homicidal than suicidal.)

GARTH ALLEN wrote:[They] take a natural pleasure in "life and the flesh thereof" and are not very apt to spite the soul by abusing the body. The reverence for the physical phase of living which characterizes the Venus-Mars types leads many of them to an avid interest in good health and many become physical culturists.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:Passion matures early in life - the attachment is to the young and vigorous. Not averse to horseplay, the passions are easily inflamed. Hot and impetuous affairs are many and fraught with risk. If Jupiter comes in too, these affairs can be prolific and extravagant. If configured simultaneously with Saturn, the erotic impulses may become warped or stunted. There may be little feeling for the opposite sex.

STATISTICS wrote:Prominent for murderers both in Bradley's study and in the one I did several years ago. This may imply weak frustration tolerance.

Exceptionally absent among suicides (Bradley) - any destructiveness, therefore, appears to be aimed outward rather than inward

Rather common (though not exceptionally so) in my personal collection of psychotherapist charts. Not sure how much this is impacted by a higher-than-usual percentage of them being sex therapists.

Most common Venus aspect and most common Mars aspect in Quellas employment start chart study. 50-50% good/bad rating. Strong desire for social contact on the job.

Notebook #93 observations: (CONJUNCTION-OPPOSITION-SQUARE) All are interesting, likable, sociable, usually horny people.
(TRINE-SEXTILE) Sociable, but not necessarily social. In fact, rather private despite their breezy facade.

PRINCIPLE: Social or loving pleasure, recognition, and esteem; happiness

VENUS-JUPITER
Fundamentally social creatures. Warm, friendly, giving, hospitable, gracious (reigns over social events). Nearly always liked (great need to be liked, desires positive attention and appreciation more than most, usually gets it). At home in a fine lifestyle (or as celebrity, aristocrat, etc.). Indulgent in all oral pleasures, e.g., preparing and eating fine food. Usually has an easier time through life despite sometimes harsh starts (experience unusual luck or patronage), usually partner well. Inclination to extravagance, possible “spoiled brat” attitude (risk of mild narcissism).

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:Configured along with Jupiter, it is an auspicious augury for a happy, normal, and contented love life. Often the native marries into an affluent family. If Venus is configured with both Jupiter and Saturn, the love instinct takes time to mature. The marriage is often to a near relation, not a stranger. After marriage the native is faithful to the mate for the rest of his days.

STATISTICS wrote:Most common aspect for 99 heads of states (Eshelman), especially conjunctions, oppositions, and squares. (Most of them live in a mansion or a palace!)

Rather common in my collection of psychotherapists.

Unusually common in charts of people with persistent sexual dysfunction (Eshelman & King). THEORY: Repressed sexuality? Spectatoring? Diverted? Too easily pleased? (These are common causes of those problems which are also Venus-Jupiter traits.)

Notebook #93 observations: (Conjunction-Opposition-Square) Eminently gracious individuals. Amiable.
(Trine-Sextile) Really sweet guys, generally quite personally popular.

PRINCIPLE: Love-inhibitions, sacrifice, dedication, remorse

VENUS-SATURN
Work, duty, devotion give especial pleasure. Also, various restrictions (even hardships) in love. Work (with an eye to service) is inherently gratifying; ordinary pleasures may be delayed or sacrificed for responsibilities. Many seem comfortable alone (unpartnered), though there is rarely any sexual restraint (often quite the opposite). Childhood hardship or deprivation often exists (physical or emotional) that shapes adult patterns; many move far from their birthplace to restart their lives. Sober, responsible. Willing to pragmatically sacrifice (even sell-out) whatever they need to, for something more important to them.

Notebook #93 observations: Very inclined to sacrifice in order to serve, to put their own comfort or pleasure aside in order to caretake, "mother," etc.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:With this aspect the erotic emotions are slow to evolve, sometimes never. The native feels cold in love. Frankly it is an aspect often found in the horoscopes of confirmed bachelors and spinsters. They may however be attracted to older men.

STATISTICS wrote:Single most uncommon aspect for 99 heads of states. The trines and sextiles were especially absent. (Eshelman)

Unusually common for uber-wealthy, successful business figures (John D. Rockefeller, Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Steve Jobs, Donald Trump, plus many who became highly successful and wealthy in music, acting, and other fields, as well as prominent inheritors of wealth such as Nelson Rockefeller, Patty Hearst). In many cases (but hardly all), the success and wealth came at severe personal cost.

Garth Allen observed (AAM 6/56) the extreme frequency of Venus-Saturn aspects in the natal charts of champion boxers. (He had just finished citing the 'disfigurement' motif of Venus-Saturn aspects in solar and lunar returns.) "The man who can look at himself in the mirror when he looks like a bunch of grapes, and then blithefully sign up for another match, has a different slant on vanity - call it Saturnian - than most of the rest of us. But unmodified Venus-Saturn tends not to care if the old kisser is kissable or not!"

(ANECDOTAL OBSERVATION:) Homosexuals in my files seem to have the trine or sextile, but not the hard aspects. ('70s data, cultural shifts have likely shifted this, but it was expressive of maintaining close relationships in that era for that group)

Common for prostitutes (Eshelman)

PRINCIPLE: Freedom in love, emotional renewal, birth

VENUS-URANUS
Pleasure drives are free of social convention or taboo, allowing enjoyment from a wide variety of social and sexual experiences. They approach friendship, love, sex, and other pleasure on their own terms, with a deep instinct for flexibility and freedom from artificial constraint. Socially popular, friendly, engaging, and well-liked, in response to their lightly flirtatious, genial, roguish style. (Their social “character” often masks underlying innocence and vulnerability.) Often requires distance from intimacy or depersonalizes affection, which can strain conventional pairings. Usually optimistic for society’s future with a deep instinct toward a less Puritanical, more open social fabric.

FURTHER NOTES:
Associations on a personal level have to have an element of aloofness and objectivity. Distance from intimacy. Depersonalization of affection. (Not the best aspect for a narrow, limiting relationships - has a very liberal outlook on marriage, inclined to polyamory, etc.)

GARTH ALLEN wrote:Freedom From Conformity is the blessing from Venus-Uranus. Natives of this famous combination are often called Bohemian, but the social rebellion which Venus-Uranus symbolizes usually takes less proverbial and obvious forms. Most often the revolt is internal, on subconscious levels, and reflects in outward artificial attitudes meant to protect an acutely sensitive emotional nature. The pleasure-drive is quite polymorphic in the Freudian sense of the word, accounting for the frequent association of this pair with verboten erotic tastes, although such outlets are secondary to the key meaning. Whether in dress or diet, mannerisms or allegiances, the revolt shows through, and the lives of these natives are lived out in a continuing battle never to feel mentally uncomfortable because of subconscious tangents. Like the automatic quiver of a horse's hide to dislodge flies, Venus-Uranus minds shuffle off any fact which might threaten their fetishes or fancies, these usually being offbeat, of course. Their greatest danger, for this reason, is falling into the habit of manipulation of truth for personal convenience.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:Here the native may well find himself deviating from the normal, the configuration in extreme cases being often found in the maps of homosexuals. They can be normal but are likely to be in search of the fresh, the new, and can in consequence find themselves in endless trouble. Marriage can be a risky venture.

STATISTICS wrote:Trines and sextiles virtually absent for 99 heads of states (Eshelman)

Common for homosexuals (Eshelman & numerous other collections). I suspect this actually just shows social rebellion and willing to operate in "forbidden" territory in the 1960s, '70s, and '80s - and before.

Notebook #93 observations: (Opposition-Square) Popular, very friendly, sociable, interactive, well-liked.

PRINCIPLE: Merging with another, fantasy, devotion

VENUS-NEPTUNE
Idealistic, future-looking, longs to be enchanted, wants things perfect (can allure and enchant others, holding their attention). Good-hearted, romantic, devoted friend, humanitarian, caretakes others. Emotions run strong. Can become jaded, disillusioned, and cynical from repeated hurtful betrayals. Most sees the beauty in people and things: Trusting, naturally confident of others’ goodness (has blind spots, especially in romance). Natural people-reader (when not personally involved), natural psychologist.

FURTHER NOTES:
Pursuit of unreachable love object (whether in very simple, mundane forms, or through religious devotion). Humanitarian at times in a highly idealistic sense. Wears "rose-colored glasses." - Caretakers of others. Friendship may be exalted to godhood. Quellas suggests that helping and manipulating are variants of the same principle (savior-abuser ambiguity). They do seem to be people-readers, but only if they can step outside of the personal equation. Natural psychologists but did not show in any unusual frequency for my study of actual psychotherapists.

GARTH ALLEN notes wrote:"Kiss of Death." Velvet touch, ingratiating manner that can melt others' resistance and doubts. Able to weave a fascinating illusion of charms.

GARTH ALLEN wrote:...best recognizable for the way it endows the velvet touch, an ingratiating manner that can melt others' resistance and doubts so easily that Venus-Neptune has been called the kiss of death in planetary symbolism.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:With this aspect the native is inclined to be hopelessly romantic in matters of love. In some ways there is an element of the theatre in their affairs. Both Shakespeare and Rudolph Valentino had this conjunction in Taurus.

STATISTICS wrote:Trines and sextiles common for 99 heads of states

In my small pilot study years back, this was high for murderers especially the soft aspects. However, this doesn't show in the Bradley study.

Notebook #93 observations: (Opposition-Square) A good heart; vulnerable to hurt or betrayal. Even the troublemakers are strong on service and likable.

Some casual observations, harvested from another thread:
Conjunctions: I see a number of politicians that seem especially motivated by ideological (rather than pragmatic) considerations.
Opposition and square: Female celebrities have a definite tendency to be "cute sexpot" types - Madonna, Belinda Carlisle, Jane Fonda, Jane Russell - and several women known to me personally have some of the same personal styling. (They tend to be tough, smart, etc., but they let the "sexpot" thing play to their advantage, and apparently because it feels good to them.) Among politicians, despite seeing Adolf Eichman, I see much less ideological motivation - consider Dwight Eisenhower. Most of them (in various areas of pursuit) have a strong ability to weave illusion and imagery and psychological styling to deliver on whatever they are doing. (Perhaps this is what Bradley meant in his "kiss of death, velvet touch" references.)
Trine and sextile: The first thing I notice is that there are a lot more politicians in this group. They all have an ideological bent, but it isn't very pronounced in most cases - more of a convenience of category than a driving element in their decisions. (It's more obvious to see ambition independent of an ideological reason.)

Here's an interesting kinetic vs. static twist: The harder aspects have a knack for weaving illusion and (among other things) turning themselves into celebrity-image types. On the other hand, the static aspect list includes people who tend to get turned into "celebrities of the hour" more or less despite themselves. Capt. Chesley Sullenberger is a good example (the guy who did a controlled plane crash in the Husdon). Or Rudy Giuliani, who was made far more of a "celebrity character" by 9/11 than by all of his affirmative political efforts. Or astrologer Gillian Helfgott, whose celebrity status arose from the film (Shine) made about her husband.
One things I would expect, in theory, for Venus-Neptune static aspects is greater passivity - idealism without passionately chasing it down - whereas the kinetic aspects have the capacity to be true zealots (in their personal lives or in other areas). In looking at Venus-Neptune trine-sextile people I know, they seem a bit vague to me - wispy in some sense - and are pretty much what I just conjectured. They may be more truly happy (other things being equal) than the "hard" aspects, because passively existing within their idyllic fantasies (without any need to "do anything about it") frustrates them less. - Few of the people I personally know with close Venus-Neptune trines/sextiles are in long-term relationships. Among the young, they tend to be "move around in sexual-romantic encounters" types - and among the older they tend to be still doing this, or jaded. A few have settled down long-term, but not most of them. The ones who have done so tend to be pretty happy.

PRINCIPLE: Outlier relationship, emotional-sexual intensity

VENUS-PLUTO
Instinctively rejects arbitrary (moral and other) values on love, sex, art (may inadvertently challenge social codes). “All or nothing” intimacy: In human connection, the feeling is, “go cosmic or go home.” Seeks deep connection (sometimes overwhelming intimates) or withdraws from others innocently (or due to rebuke and exclusion). Few intimates: most are of unfiltered intensity. Sexual development may come late (adolescent social rituals seem perplexingly arbitrary). Eruptive trouble in relationships. Can be commandingly charismatic.

FURTHER NOTES:
(June 1982:) I more and more see the "all or nothing." Many have barriers to truly relating; they withhold themselves, etc. Yet those who choose to relate want to do so deeply and, in a very childlike way, seem totally baffled, or at least momentarily perplexed, when someone won't play with them. In relating, Venus-Pluto seems to "want it all." My own tendency to overwhelm intimates seems part of this. - Frankly, many just have trouble with relationships.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:These natives never seem (especially if male) to mature sexually, and the opposite sex in consequence never takes them seriously. When in company with the opposite sex they become embarrassed and act childishly. They are inclined to avoid love. The effects of this configuration resemble those of Venus-Saturn, many never marry. Some even find their release perversion. [Most of this is wrong.]

STATISTICS wrote:Present for 71% of those rape victims who were killed but not unusual for survivors. (Davis)

High for homosexuals (Eshelman & other collections)

Notebook #93 observations: To a one, every male in the TRINE-SEXTILE list is a gentle soul. This is true to a lesser degree with the Hard Aspects, who, however, seem a bit more dramatic and colorful in their personality.
(OPPOSITION-SQUARE) "Drama in sexual relationships" seems characteristic of them.

PRINCIPLE: Exalted strength, ambition, achievement

MARS-JUPITER
Exalts strength, competition, and conquest with a zest for living. Common for successful competitive athletes; in most others, it shows vitality and enthusiasm for bringing an ever-improving “personal best.” Confidence in their own strength adds impermanence to any defeats. Morally, if not physically, courageous. Enterprising, resourceful. Sexually, both men and women are ardent, lusty, eager, popular, on the hunt. “Money to burn” (generous or extravagant; rarely holds onto cash for long; seems confident in the stream of resources). Aggressive in their beliefs, evangelical in their lives (irrepressible enthusiasts, missionaries, barnstormers of doctrine or other interests).

FURTHER NOTES:
ANGEL-DEVIL Polarity adds a chief theme manifesting in their lives. This develops such standard keys as the oft-interlinked religious fervor (fanaticism?) and sexual "malpractice," but also in other variations of acting angelic and devilish. Reward-punishment or retribution (karmic? divine? legal?) themes are common. [This is very marked in the conjunction especially.]

Garth Allen, AA Digest 1959 wrote:...a personality who believes that Power itself is the Prize, who believes that compromise is a sign of weakness and who feels that armor is a weak defense unless it is shiny and bejeweled... "trophies" as displays of prowess...

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:If Mars is configured with Jupiter, especially in a male geniture, we get those specimens of manhood who are so much admired by the fair sex and schoolboys alike. Because of their sagacity, self-control, sense of fairness, and dislike of wanton destruction, they quickly get to the top of the field of sport, in all contests, in the [military] services, and also in the field of surgery. They become captains or leaders. They are essentially virile, even in advanced age. They despise all forms of cowardice or brutality to women ad children. It can be an aspect of victory.

STATISTICS wrote:Common for 99 heads of states

Though present in the charts of a very ordinary 59% of rape victims who survived the assault, this shows a scanty 21% of the time for murdered rape victims (Davis). I strongly suspect that this is a strong survival distinction that otherwise has little to do with vulnerability to rape.

"The classical index of natural athletic ability in a horoscope, according to statistics..." (Garth Allen)

"...predominate in the charts of professional athletes who represent the classical ideal of masculine personality" (Garth Allen)

Notebook #93 observations: (TRINE-SEXTILE) Service seems to come hard to them (presumably because Mars-Jupiter likes to play).

PRINCIPLE: Struggle, survival, domination, harm

MARS-SATURN
Struggle marks these lives, sometimes from early (physical or psychological) hardship, sometimes from prejudice. Some (activists) struggle for something, others struggle only against. All are hardened, tough survivors, self-sufficient, maneuvering for control, who seem to make everything harder than necessary. Three typical types are those who (1) accept the hardship and focus most on “getting through”; (2) act meek, frail, gentle, inoffensive; (3) overcompensate as bullies, pushing around those weaker than them. Suppressive experiences leave feelings of weakness, shame, and inadequacy they ultimately need to heal. Conflicts especially with father-authority equivalencies. Most are serious and reserved, cautious about enthusiasms.

GARTH ALLEN wrote:They "can take it." They are not easily driven to give up in the battle of life... perseverance in the face of heavy odds.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:If Mars is configured with Saturn and in the foreground or configured with the luminaries, the male characteristics are apt to be retarded in growth, making the native servile, incapable of manly acts and unpopular with women. To compensate for this feeling they often struggle to control women and children, those whom they consider weaker than themselves. This is one of the most grievous of natal formations as it tends to taint planets they contact with disease, decay, and corruption. They will try to control others but what they need is self-control.

STATISTICS wrote:Low for suicides (Bradley)

Infrequent for 99 heads of states (Eshelman)

"...characterize the horoscopes of men considered effeminate by the standards of our culture" (Garth Allen)

Appeared in 81% of charts of rape victims studied by Davis - 76% of survivors and 86% of those murdered. Overall, only Sun-Moon aspects were more common. The squares were especially common. ANALYSIS: This does indeed seem to mark a life of struggle and/or violence (cf. suicide results).

In employment start charts, second most common Mars aspect. Only 4 of 18 were losers. Ability to produce, use energy well, etc. (Quellas)

Notebook #93 observations: (Opposition-Square) The obvious Mars-Saturn traits stand out, especially a psyche and life heavily involved in struggle and polarization. The rest of the chart reflects what role the person takes in the struggle, and how they enact, or react to, the struggle.

PRINCIPLE: Aggressive independence, will-force, daring (sexually uninhibited)

MARS-URANUS
Uncompromisingly individualist (but rarely ungraciously so). Bold, often stand out as highly distinctive characters in their circles. Natural rebel, challenges prevailing thinking, brutally honest. Always into something new, often offbeat. Takes risks psychologically (sometimes physically). Industrious, resourceful, shows initiative. Mentally quick, not necessarily intellectual; knack for astute assessment of situations, analytical, mechanical instincts. Sexually uninhibited, enthusiastic (lifestyle may challenge social standards; actions may challenge the world to try to stop them). Trusts own instincts more than outside advice.

Notebook #93 observations: (Conjunction-Opposition-Square) Horny people. A lot of character strength, obstinacy, generally very bright but not necessarily intellectual.

GARTH ALLEN wrote:Equally stubborn and geared to a first-person-pronoun track through life is Mars-Uranus, but in a zestier way [than Venus-Uranus]. Mars-Uranus cannot be made to do something he does not wish to do, and shows this Freedom From Coercion by constantly challenging the world to question his motives or fetter his enthusiasm. He has a distaste for cooperation and often lonewolfes it. Exploitative in the extreme and a vigilante on behalf of rugged individualism, the native seldom embraces anything whole-heartedly, being unable to put body and soul into anything he undertakes that is not adventuresome. Mars-Uranus usually lives out its life span without ever really knowing that Love is. But for all its objectivity and lack of fear, this influence is essentially honest and, on occasion, brutally honest to the tune of a truckload of troubles.

GARTH ALLEN wrote:Men in whom Mars-Uranus vibrations are dominant are natural "altar bait." In many cases these men are the heroic type, born with a high degree of physical intelligence, to whom unattached women are attracted by sensing the staying power that is their characteristic. Even though eternally on the lookout for the angles in any situation, they give the impression of clean-cut, fearless honesty.

One of the angles which has its appeal to the eye of many a Mars-Uranus male is the proprietary side of marriage, the sense of ownership of a wife. This is why relatively few Mars-Uranus men fail to hang their tags on willing women at some time early in their adult lives. Oddly, but appropriately, aspects of Mars-Uranus are also lacking in normal numbers in the charts of fathers of four or more children. Even while of the marrying species, they do not like to surrender their rugged individualities too completely to others. Marriage and paternity to them are sufficient reassurances of the unique masculinity, but they feel there is little advantage in overplaying the part. Hence, a token number of children, rather than a carload, is par with married Mars-Uranus men.

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:This is one of the most thrilling and audacious of all configurations. Aspecting the lights it denotes reckless daredevils who, on the spur of the moment, do the most daring things and yet live to tell the tale. As Uranus is the significator of all that is up-to-date, this configuration represents the latest in lethal weapons... It tends to make military genius.

STATISTICS wrote:Murderers (Bradley), which implies weak frustration tolerance.
Low incidence for lifelong bachelors (Bradley)
Low incidence for fathers of 4 or more chldren (Bradley)
Present for 71% of murdered rape victims (Davis)
Common for homosexuals (Eshelman & other collections, 1970s era data mostly)

PRINCIPLE: Forging reality, dramatic aggression, frustrated gratification

MARS-NEPTUNE
Zealous enthusiasm for interests and convictions (obsessive, concentrated). Inflamed imagination and emotion, thrives amidst stirred passion and high drama. Often great stamina for long-term vision (admits mistakes slowly). Surges into temptation, requires quick gratification of desires (usually gets it). Enormous psychic power fascinates and moves minds and reality (often seeks uncompromising control, may have delusions of infallibility). Dramatic aggressions (frustration triggers unresolved anger). Sexually magnetic. [High dopamine levels and dopamine-driven behavior best summarize this aspect.]

[Quote from a post, where I discussed this in a new way:] The close Mars-Neptune opposition has a missionary spirit (among other similar traits), a hurling himself (usually imprudently) into whatever is the focus of his attention... Mars-Neptune is seriously dopamine-driven, and is also [an] aspect that enhances his intelligence enormously. (I think that's a consequence of living at high dopamine levels: impulse driven toward a desire, needing immediate gratification and doing more or less whatever is necessary to get it. This behavior pattern gives much higher permanent dopamine levels, and, among other things, that boosts mental power.)"

Some additional notes on Mars-Neptune aspects: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5649

GARTH ALLEN wrote:...individuals born under strong Mars-Neptune vibrations have a tendency to take themselves too seriously. They expend a tremendous amount of energy in behalf of their ideals or, in symbolism, their visions - to the degree where each and every hankering becomes nearly an obsession.

...Mars-Neptune is the "spoiled brat" aspect of birth-charts. The aggressive instincts of Mars when filtered through the vagueness of Neptune behave like Stephen Leakcock's rider who mounted his horse and rode off in all directions. This is why Mars-Neptune is one of the horoscopic earmarks of bachelorhood. A prospective bride soon finds that she is being asked to marry not only the man but his dog and office and golf clubs and political party and alma mater and favorite comedian, and so forth we well. The life of a Mars-Neptune personality is too mixed up for many girls he would single out to share his love.

Garth Allen, AA 11/58 wrote:Mars-Neptune personalities are characterized by their tremendous expenditure of energy in behalf of their delusions or, on the more constructive side, their ideals. Once having taken a stand or committed themselves to a certain Guiding Fiction I life, they would rather die than recant, would rather suffer in secret than admit possibly having been wrong. In clear-cut cases they are ingenious in backing up their viewpoints and revving up their arguments with Zealotlike tirelessness. Even in nonpathological matters, such as everyday work, they are indefatigable. It has been called the "show-off and spout-off" combination in horoscopy, and when one considers the many vociferous politicians and aspirants to glory (even to the Crown of Peter) whose birthcharts glow with the special fire of ambition that is Mars-Neptune's endowment, the genuineness of [his example's] belief in herself can hardly be doubted. Mars-Neptune must play out its obsessions in the grand manner, no matter the cost and to blazes with the facts.

STATISTICS wrote:High for lifelong bachelors (Bradley)
High I.Q. (Choisnard)
Very common for 99 heads of state (Eshelman)

PRINCIPLE: Forced or blocked power, belligerent individuality

Congenial, gentle behavior sits atop a stockpile of force: energy, character strength, will (in many cases, creative success) if not overly tangled with conflict. Expressing strength is “all or nothing,” either freely, cleanly expressed or resisted, blocked, suppressed (rare over-compensation can be brutal, destructive). Health is reflected in how cleanly appropriate anger is expressed. Unexpressed energies can attract conflict (even violence) or erupt in a health crisis (e.g., over-strain, burnout). Sexual energies potent, often forbidden, or poured into driven work. Forceful efforts to live outside others’ rules may lead to law-breaking or other antisocial trouble.

MARS-PLUTO

• Well-mannered, congenial, gentle behavior sits atop a stockpile of force that gifts great energy and strength of character and will (in many cases, creative success in arts or entertainment) if it is not overly tangled with (inner or outer) conflicts.
• Must live and act by their own rules, being as disobedient or solitary as needed to find their own way. Otherwise, energies are consumed in resisting others’ control.
• Expressing strength seems “all or nothing,” either freely, cleanly expressed or resisted, blocked, and suppressed. (Rare over-compensation can be brutal and destructive.)
• Suppressed (blocked) energies can attract conflict (even violence) or erupt in a health crisis (especially over-strain or burnout).
• Psychological health is reflected in free, clean, appropriate expression of anger. (Suppressed rage and rebellion from child-hood control and power struggles may need to be healed.)
• Sexual energies are potent, often forbidden or entwined with control-surrender issues; or else poured into driven work.
• Forceful efforts to live outside others’ rules may lead to acting outside the law or causing other antisocial trouble.

Notebook #93 observations: (CONJUNCTION-OPPOSITION-SQUARE) As would be expected, they are more or less "outside the norm" on social patterning. Those who are doing well with their lives show a mark of genius and distinctive creativity, seem gentle but energetic, acutely alive but with a quiet energy. Those who are not doing well in their lives, however, are a kind of trouble: I am sure that they do not consciously think of themselves as pot-stirrers, but they are like social bulls in a china shop, or at least can't seem to avoid "breaking" or upsetting something around them. THE KEY THAT DIFFERENTIATES THE TWO GROUPS IS A PRODUCTIVE, ON-TRACK LIFE.

OPPOSITIONS & SQUARES: Balls, though with such a relative sureness of their strength that they're rarely pushy. Most notable strength. TRINES & SEXTILES: Men are mostly gentle, "venussy" types, but with very firm backbone and solid strength (usually). Women have "strong front-bone," i.e., "characterological Priapism!"

GARTH ALLEN wrote:Mars-Pluto influences instill in their natives a resistance to "playing by the rules" and reacting to situations in observance of the conventions of society. They have a tendency toward "taking the law into their own hands" as a result of an inborn impatience with orderly procedures. Mars-Pluto vibrations imbue a sense of personal transcendence of civil law and social mores, and it is common to find such a person preparing to defend himself and his own against some outside threat rather than calling the police for proper protection... Mars-Pluto types... can usually be relied on to be "different."

STATISTICS wrote:Frequent for suicides (Bradley)
Army wifes (Quellas)
Well-represented (but not a leading aspect) for 99 heads of states (Eshelman)
Frequent for homosexuals (Eshelman & other collections. 1970s era data)
Exceptionally numerous among hospital inmates (Jean Graves)

NOTE: Investigation of Eris' meaning is relatively new. Please regard what follows as tentative and exploratory.

PRINCIPLE: (not identified)

MERCURY-ERIS
Insight comes easily: Mind can manage vast arrays of data points, incorporating facts and evidence, leaping to significant, persistent success. (Seems intuitive at first impression, but actually pursues goals through persistent effort and skill rewarded by insight.) A sassy, often unbounded “think-for-oneself” way through life (may use shock tactics to prove they think and act on their own). Promiscuous: persistently casual, diverse, and indiscriminate in sexual variety (sliding through chaos? leaving a wake of chaos? "multiplicity" theme?).

U.S. PRESIDENTS
CONJ: John Adams, William McKinley
SQR: Donald Trump
TRI/SEX: Franklin Pierce, U.S. Grant, Theodore Roosevelt, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton

NOTE: Investigation of Eris' meaning is relatively new. Please regard what follows as tentative and exploratory.

PRINCIPLE: (not identified)

VENUS-ERIS
Sexuality is unusually free from shame. Finds flowering or fertility in chaos. When sexually involved, expresses sexuality with unusual “no holding back” freedom. Indifferent to others’ or society's rules: Faithful to their own moral rules, while entirely free from judging, shaming, or condemning others’ choices (willing to be disruptor). Discloses their inner, intimate self in every act. (Sees each personal connection as one detail in a larger array.)

Extensive original notes toward an initial interpretation are included in a stream of posts beginning here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=487&p=36252#p36632

NOTE: Investigation of Eris' meaning is relatively new. Please regard what follows as tentative and exploratory.

PRINCIPLE: (not identified)

MARS-ERIS
Disruptors carving new paths (sometimes zealously). Breakout creativity and effectiveness. Highly sex-motivated (sexual-social outlier). Women in particular show unusual sexual ferocity and easy sexual freedom (but is this just from disrupting prior expectations?).

U.S. PRESIDENTS
CONJ/OPP: George Washington, James Buchanan, Bill Clinton
TRI/SEX: Zachary Taylor