Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Welcome to the Moon in Capricorn discussions project, which will run January 15 - February 13, 2018 (and then will remain around in case people want to revisit it in the future). Please gather your list of Moon in Capricorn people (especially those you know personally) and join us.

Here are Moon in Capricorn interpretive resources on the forum:
Primary section: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34#p151
Cyril Fagan: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=105&p=636#p645
Garth Allen: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33#p139
Manilius: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=121#p747

My current concise summary of Moon in Capricorn (*always subject to change) reads:

Restless, confrontational. Resists persuasion, authority, & conformity. Sharp, unconventional mind. Socially charming; not self-disclosing. Humor, prankish, outlandish. Sexually attractive; wild libido. Identifies with the fringe, “bad boy/girl” (but essentially wholesome). Dark, grotesque, shocking, disturbing style (loves dark occult images). Vulnerable to dark moods. Often severe childhoods or early loss.

So after a year of Sun in ... threads, we're doing the Moon this year? Two thumbs up, I really am looking forward to reading . I expect to have quite a bit to say when mid-April rolls around.

I notice that you don't regard the NIA Moon-sign delineations as being as as polished as the Sun-signs, Jim. That's no surprise, and isn't unique to you--I've read neither western siderealist nor tropicalist literature that does (I'm not familiar enough with the astrological literature of India to comment on whether it hold true there--I don't know). The very first exposure to astrology for almost everyone in the west is newspaper astrology--I got mine along with my mother's milk, I think. So tropicalists expend extra effort on expanding this primordial "knowledge", while siderealist expend extra effort correcting it. This goes on below the surface of consciousness, for the most part. I noticed it in the seventies in my own study notes, though that may possibly be attributed to another cause: I'm Sun in Pisces SZ/Aries TZ but Moon in Aries both zodiacs, so maybe Sun-signs were just more emotionally important to me, because it was a bigger change.

BTW, I write as if there were two zodiacs to make my point, I know there is only only one--where Aldebaran is is at 15 Taurus opposite Antares at 15 Scorpio the way God intended.

Mike wrote:

BTW, I write as if there were two zodiacs to make my point, I know there is only only one--where Aldebaran is is at 15 Taurus opposite Antares at 15 Scorpio the way God intended.

My good old friend Mn*** has Moon in Capricorn, and has Mars and Saturn as strong planets, as shown here. Her Tumblr page is as Capricorn Moon as you can get.

I just gathered my collection of Capricorn Moons into a file and, between personal and public, I have 164 examples I want to work with, but especially 15 people that I know pretty well, including my mother, three fairly significant girlfriends, two men who were among my best friends, and our own The Scales Both Ways, among others.

But, as a first impression, running my eyes down the almost 150 famous examples in the file, I am newly struck by some patterns that have appeared to me before. These may not be as present in non-public, non-prominent people, but stand out fairly distinctly among the famous (and sometimes notorious).

Especially among those who are somehow in the arts, there is indeed a tendency to play toward the grotesque or, if not that, then to the outlandish, keeping people surprised and "off their feet."

Among actors, women have fared better than men for Oscars. Several actresses are iconically known for playing women who were outright crazy, such as Vivien Leigh, Glenn Close, and Joan Crawford. There is also always an intensely sexual element about them (to the above and others, add especially Marilyn Monroe and Sophia Loren (add Donna Summer), and remember that Helen Mirren's hot-hot breakout role was in Excalibur.) Though Capricorn Moon men get fewer Oscars, there are exemplars of steaming male sexuality among them, such as Cary Grant, Denzel Washington, and Russell Crowe.

There are so many others who try to shock us and live on the outskirts of convention. Consider all the plays of Tennessee Williams; Chris Carter who created X-Files; the outlandishness of H.G. Wells and Orson Welles; the impish and outlandish Gene Wilder; the paintings of Gustave Dore; and names like Havelock Ellis. Bruce Jenner certainly startled a few people. Folks considered eminent in other, orthodox fields who also openly identified themselves with the occult include Sir John Dee, Edward Kelley, Nicholas Culpepper, and William Butler Yates. Larry Hagman impacted the world most as one of TV's earliest anti-heroes, a Man You Love to Hate (J.R. Ewing). And Neil Young, John McCain, and Pope Francis, in their respective fields, have usually been on the cultural, rebellious fringe.

But wait, isn't that just Uranus because these are Tropical Aquarius Moons? Nope, that's Mars-Saturn. Maybe someone like Wilder is Uranian, but the list is generally not "experimentation and over-the-bounds for its own sake" so much as in-your-face confrontation of the fiercely independent, autonomy-demanding, anti-expectation Capricorn. Demonstrating that this is not Uranian liberality is a long list of conservative icons, topped by names like Clarence Thomas, Jeb Bush, Rick Santorum, Robert Bork, and Sarah Palin.

There are monsters, too, and distinctive cult leaders (not always overlapped, of course), including Adolf Eichmann, Charles Manson, David Koresh, and Joseph Smith.

This is clearly a position of political power, often taken to the extreme of infamy or tragedy. For example, four U.S. presidents have had Capricorn Moons (Lincoln, McKinley, Wilson, Nixon), of whom two were murdered, one resigned, and one completed his term barely-recovering after a stroke. Other gigantic political power-houses include Fidel Castro, Gamal Abdul Nasser, Indira Gandhi, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Augustus Caesar, of whom two were murdered, one exiled, and one considered notorious by history - but all gigantically powerful.

Of course, there are milder examples. Manson's Helter-Skelter mania was sponsored by the kinder (but also "bad boy" and rebel) John Lennon. Michael Bloomberg is more orthodox, Robert Kennedy was hardly a conservative icon, Burt Bacharach (also gigantically powerful, and a rebel in his own ways) saturated the "easy listening" air waves for decades.


How much of this will be see in ordinary people? I see a lot of identification with the fringe (whatever that means in their particular circles), with being (or wanting very much to be) a "bad boy" or "bad girl" - I mean this as a role, a social identification, in the "grown up juvenile delinquent" sense, because these "bad" people are generally quite good people. There's a lot of trying to make their stamp and style center on misbehaving, and (among the women more than the men) usually leveraging their wild animal sexuality effectively. I only know a couple of Cap Moon people who have become identified with "looking the crazy one" in the way the signature actresses above did, but for them it's a serious part of their public personas, their particular extension of the "don't think of me as ordinary, I should disturb you a bit" that most Cap Moons seem to wear.

Among the famous Cap Moons, in particular, there is indeed a tendency for them to hurl themselves (or fall) into considerable trouble in their lives if Sun is also Rim. This isn't a surprise for Rim-Rim as a generalization. What is interesting to me for Capricorn Moons is the number of striking cases of tragic childhoods (and many of these involving the mother in particular).

Barbara Hutton is a great example - having every advantage on the planet, yet having her life marked forever when, at age 4, she discovered her dead mother. She went on to have one of the most troubled lives on record. Or consider Charles Manson's upbringing, or Marilyn Monroe's. Or think of the last generation's defining unlucky kid, JonBenet Ramsey. These are just the examples that come to the top of my head. (Among personal, non-famous contacts known to me, there are several early losses of mother to disease - generally when the Cap Moon child was in early adulthood, not as children.)

JonBenet's chart is quite intense and unpleasant. A Mars-Pluto partile opposition along the EP axis (and square Sun), a Venus-Saturn partile opposition in the background (but exactly angular in Boulder, where she died), for a little Cancer-Capricorn girl turned into a competitive beauty contestant at a very early age. Imagine the parent dynamics with Cancer-Capricorn luminaries opposed along the MC-IC (with Sun on IC square the Mars-Pluto). Had she lived to adulthood, this would have been a really rough chart to navigate. (Her chart for her death is almost as big a mystery as the murder, though the SLR at least has signs of deception and betrayal, and transiting Saturn was exactly semi-square her Mars on the night.)

I'm surprised how few business and finance giants appear on the Cap Moon lists. compared to the hugely disproportionate number of bankers etc. with Capricorn Suns. We have a couple of Rockefellers (but one of them is David!), Henry Ford, plua Leona Helmsley and Moses Annenberg.

Notice that the last two were eventually imprisoned for income tax evasion and generally "taken down." This resembles the pattern with political figures - heads of state that were "taken down" (even killed) after acquiring disproportionately great power. This seems a distinctive characteristic of this Moon-sign placement.

This is quite amazing. The people I know well with this placement indeed are preoccupied with wanting very much to be a 'bad boy' or 'bad girl'. Despite that these 'bad' people are quite good people. On succes, I know some Cap Moons who are finance giants and have been doing well; not having been taken down.

My mother has a Cap Moon and as long as I can remember I loved to hate her when she keeps me off my feet. She has her Mars in Scorpio which is another placement of this wanting to be 'bad' from time to time. It has not always been easy. It's like there are two persons in her, the kind and the difficult depending on circumstances. With her I find it's easy to recognize when she adapts with her Moon or is feeling at home in het Taurus Sun. Perhaps it's more easy to observe in Capricorn Moon then in Capricorn Sun as this is the face she shows to the outside world to protect herself.

Most of the Cap Moons I know had difficult childhoods. I have noticed that in the same dysfunctional family the other sibblings often also have a Cap Moon.
Also, I have frequently seen melancholy in them and they are easily moved to tears when it pertains hardships or cruelty on others.
Regards,
Flo

Conversation with my mother who has Moon in Capricorn about the holding back:

me: Mum would you be able to purchase two more wooden Christmas lights for my friend from the charity Bazar? her: No, they don't make them anymore, they stopped doing that. me: Can I call them to ask whether they have some left still? her: No, there's none left, it's over, your friend can't have them. She can go somewhere else where they sell them double the price. me: Will you call for me and ask if perhaps there are some left in storage still? her: No, I am not going to call. This is what it is.
One week later she let me know that she still got two from the charity person...

Another conversation with a family member with Cap Moon:
me: What do you think of this carpet online, the price is really good. him: I think the color looks ugly, you may not like it and regret the purchase, it doesn't look charming at all. Why wasting time on it. me: I think it will look beautiful and feel comfortable. him: It's too thick and not stylish at all, this is something you regret.
The next day: him: When are we going to that Carpet man?

Regards, Flo

I've reached a new stage of rewrite of the Moon in Capricorn interpretive material. Specifically, I've finished the concise (three typed lines) summary, based on current (confirmed) knowledge of traits. In preparation for this, I've reworked much of the itemized content (numbered bullet points) for Moon in Capricorn in the standard interpretation page. By no means is it final - there is still other stuff from this thread and my collection that I want to vet - but it is a step forward.

Here is the (current generation, subject to change) Moon in Capricorn summary:

Restless, confrontational. Resists persuasion, authority, & conformity. Sharp, unconventional mind. Socially charming; not self-disclosing. Humor, prankish, outlandish. Sexually attractive; wild libido. Identifies with the fringe, “bad boy/girl” (but essentially wholesome). Dark, grotesque, shocking, disturbing style (loves dark occult images). Vulnerable to dark moods. Often severe childhoods or early loss.

Regarding "struggles hard against life, overcoming tough odds" from Sun, I remembered this from Moon:

Notebook #93 observations: Often there is the strong Rim tendency to be in trouble with respect to their lives and circumstances, to "push it" and come up short.

With persistent, patient, intelligent effort going a long way. It seems it's the lack of that which greatly increases the chances of "coming up short."

Related to that, tentatively: tendency to feel too constrained by the material limitations of life, whether those specific to the native or those that apply to everyone. That can lead to frustration, which can lead to discouragement in applying the aforementioned effort. ("What good will it do anyway?")

From personally known examples:
Operates in terms of “control or be controlled” - the personal feeling of being in position of power over something or someone plays a great role.

In cases when Jupiter isn’t also strong in the chart in some way:
not able to move up/away from deeply seated belief that this world (life) is at its essence a place of suffering and a battleground.

Moon in Capricorn people from my large Example Chart Catalogue:

• Emperor Augustus, Pres. Abraham Lincoln, Pres. William McKinley, Pres. Woodrow Wilson, Pres. Richard M. Nixon, Queen Isabella I, Mary Queen of Scots, PM Indira Gandhi, Pope Francis I, Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, Sen. John McCain, Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, Gov. Jeb Bush, Crown Prince Rudolph, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, Amb. Caroline Kennedy, Queen Consort Mary
• Angela Davis, Eleanor Smeal, Jerry Rubin, George Lincoln Rockwell, David Duke
• Bela Lugosi, Jackie Coogan, Andy Griffith, Gene Wilder, Haley Joel Osment, Vivian Leigh, Marilyn Monroe, Sophia Loren, Anne Baxter, Diahann Carroll, Glenn Close, Susan Sarandon, Helen Mirren, Uma Thurman, George Lucas, Conan O'Brien, Gayle King, David Copperfield
• Dinah Shore, Roberta Flack, Joan Jett, Linda Ronstadt, Donna Summer, Britney Spears, Wynonna Judd, JoJo, Jane Avril, John Lennon, Stu Sutcliffe, Jon Bon Jovi, Chick Corea, Balthus, Diane Arbus
• Niccolo Machiavelli, Arthur Conan Doyle, H.G. Wells, Philip K. Dick, Colette, George Eliot, Joyce Carol Oates, Jacqueline Susann, Christine Angot, Lorraine Hansberry [such story-tellers!]
• Charles Atlas, Barbara Hutton, Isaac Pitman, Ferdinand von Zeppelin, Henry Ford, Havelock Ellis, Ernest Gallo, Gen. George B. McClellan, Jackie Robinson, JonBenet Ramsey, Leona Helmsley, Linda Tripp, Marianne Williamson, Marion Jones, Sally Ride
• Hera Myrtel, Charles Manson, Arthur Goode, Stephen Paddock, David Koresh
• Franz Hartmann, Augusta Foss Heindel, Margaret Hone, Edith Wangemann, Rupert S. Gleadow, Joanne S. Clancy

mikestar13 wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:55 am I notice that you don't regard the NIA Moon-sign delineations as being as polished as the Sun-signs, Jim. That's no surprise, and isn't unique to you--I've read neither western siderealist nor tropicalist literature that does...

Mike, any impressions n where things stand now on the Moon-sign interpretations, now that we've run the length of this project and I've rewritten 11/12 of them?

Impressively improved.

I have finished the Moon in Capricorn rewrite.

This means that the five-year project begun January 14, 2017 to reassess and rewrite the Sun-sign and Moon-sign interpretations is complete. (The real process will go on forever, of course, but at some point, to write up what I've got, I have to say, "It's done, this is what I'm going with!"

The rewritten Moon in Capricorn interpretation (rewritten with your help, especially Flo's generous input), can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34&p=151#p151

The three summary words are: Playful, Primitive, Dark

The summary was not greatly rewritten because it had been rewritten midway through and served (mostly) as the most tested and confirmed details of the interpretation. Nonetheless, it looks a bit different. Here it is:

Playful, mischievous. Identifies with the “bad boy/girl” uncultivated fringe (but innately wholesome). Restless, discontent. Resists authority and persuasion. Sharp insightful mind. Socially entertaining but private, hidden. Sexually attractive. Satyr-like libido. Loves dark, grotesque imagery. Vulnerable to dark moods. Severe childhood or early loss (parent themes).

Jim Eshelman wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:06 pmPlayful, Primitive, Dark

Like.

Congratulations on this milestone!