Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:38 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:27 pm
Could you help describe some Pluto things for me to grasp on more what your views on the planet are. As simpile gasoline can or tombstone [not saying those things are Plutonian but they came to mind first].
I don't think of planets in terms of things. Even when I slide into it after almost 50 years of knowing better, I try to catch myself and drag myself out of it. Pluto is surely the one planet easiest to avoid doing that with, because, while referring to something quite real, does not pertain to anything day-to-day.

It is easier to describe Plutonian events because the are staggering, displacing, against the odds, etc. This doesn't exactly translate into behavior when we find Pluto prominent in the birth chart, though.

If I were to reduce it to a single word today (on a different day I might pick a different word) it would be unconditional. Pluto is that which is unbeholden to conditions.

Psychologically, Pluto refers to authenticity needs - the desire to be authentically oneself, unhampered by others. It isolates and distinguishes; dislikes labels, categorization, and arbitrary expectations; is eccentric, extreme, separating, disruptive, and antisocial, marking the exception singled out from the statistical, social, and cultural norm.

So, if we were to give it a noun to be, it would be the uncompromisable existential seed-essence of a being.
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:54 pm

I'm liking focusing on Neptune Jim. Focusing on water, knowing when I get stormy and how to cool down. Im trying to be s much more spritual person by attaching to my detached Neptune. Do you think this effort is in vain and Pluto will work it's way back in to my life and it would be better to accept Pluto now instead of turning away?

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:55 pm

Also every Pluto thing you say Jim is 100 percent true to how I am.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:56 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:55 pm
Also every Pluto thing you say Jim is 100 percent true to how I am.
And you have a close Moon-Pluto square, so that's no surprise.
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:15 pm

In reading more on myth and such, I relate the seed of undeniable existence you have spoken of closer to the goddess nxy. She was night born out of choas [nothing] and she birthed day, brightness, doom, destruction, death, sleep, fate, deceit, friendship, strife, and retribution.

Some of those are most literaly inescapable...

Why however would Pluto resonate more than my Sun or Moon [even if I do or don't want it too I can't argue the traits given to Pluto or the Pluto Moon aspect]?

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:27 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:15 pm
Why however would Pluto resonate more than my Sun or Moon [even if I do or don't want it too I can't argue the traits given to Pluto or the Pluto Moon aspect]?
Here's the thing you keep missing most: It's not one OR the other. Both are fundamentally you. Yet, when seemingly opposite clusters of traits are simultaneously, comparably strong in us, we do all sorts of things to deal with it initially. One common tactic is to embrace one set and reject or deny the other.

That's not wholeness, though. It's cutting out half your heart. The deeper truth is that you are all the Moon-Pluto stuff you actively embrace AND all the Sagittarius-Leo stuff you have worked so hard to reject and exclude. They seem incompatible, like one can't exist in the reality of the other, like one is the enemy of the other. Yet your wholeness, if you are successful in living life, will only be found in finding that which embraces and gives equal voice to both of them at once. (There are many things in life that give equal voice to both of them at once, and some of those things may be what does it for you.)

What's standing in your way (besides a few years to open up to your life more, probably ripening around your Saturn return) is your judgment (such a Sagittarian thing!) that there is something deeply wrong about (your understanding of) all those things we've been suggesting are Sagittarian.
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:14 pm

No just I think the royality thing is a bit out dated and I put things before self improvement/being elite, other than that I agree with Sag and Leo. Your right that these things may apply to me, but I can choose what I put first.

Also does Pluto have any association to the third eye? I am in fact intuition and emotionally driven so I am curious.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:08 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:14 pm
No just I think the royality thing is a bit out dated and I put things before self improvement/being elite, other than that I agree with Sag and Leo. Your right that these things may apply to me, but I can choose what I put first.
That's quite a Sagittarius-Leo thing to say ;)

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:08 am

Btw I am told that it was pitch black at my birth.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:31 am

You posted that elsewhere, but the Moon, which was a little less than 3/4 full was out the entire time between midnight and dawn on Dec. 27th 1999. Not to put too fine a point on it, the Moon was also at perigee, meaning it was closer to the Earth than usual, so appeared larger and brighter than usual.

Perhaps someone is thinking of the birth of one of your siblings.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:52 am

My father had me 18 years ago and another child 2 years ago [which idek if he was present at that child's birth]. My other siblings come from a diffrent dad.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:34 am

K. Well, not going to try to speculate why he remembers it the way he does.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:44 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:52 am
My father had me 18 years ago and another child 2 years ago [which idek if he was present at that child's birth]. My other siblings come from a diffrent dad.
So, we now have three competing pieces of information. Two of them come from your father. We'll run with whatever you pick, but you need to be the one to run with it.

I proposed the words "pitch black" earlier as one variation, and I'm guessing you ran those words past your dead. For the moment, then, let's assume that by "pitch black" he meant "it was dark light it was night time." It surely was dark when he headed to the hospital, and I don't know what windows he had available to him when you were born, whether he was in the room without windows or in a waiting room with windows... etc. (All about tracking down what information was really available to him at that exact minute, right?)

So, Scarlet, to the best of my memory, here are the three reports we have of your birth time:

1. Your birth certificate says 7:30.
2. Your dad said you were born at 7:15 AM.
3. Your dad said it was (I paraphrase) dark as night outside (which could only have been much earlier that 7:15, e.g., no later than 6:45.

No two of these can both be true.

As I mentioned before, if you come up with your event list we can do a rectification process that might (might) cause one to emerge as a clearly-most-likely time.

In the meantime, if you pick one of the three 1-2-3 items above, we can run with that chart for you.

Sound like a plan?
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:22 am

Can we run a chart say at night. 51 minutes before visbile sunrise is dark that is at 6:40 am. Conflicts follow me in life i can't say one chart is right, so I guess ill.habe to read them all.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:54 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:22 am
Can we run a chart say at night. 51 minutes before visbile sunrise is dark that is at 6:40 am. Conflicts follow me in life i can't say one chart is right, so I guess ill.habe to read them all.
I would rather not do this by you picking what interpretation you like best. That's a really bad approach. I'd rather do it either by you taking what you know of the different reports of your birth and telling us which one you want to vote for as a starting point, or that you come up with events that we can check.

Moist terrible Tropical rectification comes specifically from trying to make a chart fit a preconception of what a person is like (e.g., trying to pick, from theory, the right Ascendant sign). All this does is pander to someone's existing ideas of what a person is like.

I find it humorous BTW that when I keep saying that 6:45 is the best fit for everything you've said about yourself and insist is so about you, you make a point of avoiding that exact time and picking 5 minutes earlier :) That doesn't make either 6:40 or 6:45 more right or more wrong, I just find it an interesting example of your persistent contrariness and having to come up with your own answer no matter what anyone suggests who might be trying to help you. (That is probably your most persistently displayed trait.)

That said, though I won't do a full workup for 6:40, I'll tell you that Mercury is your only foreground planet, 1°43' below Asc, and still manages to eek out that "hidden" Mercury-Neptune PVP square (2°50').
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:30 am

Intresting. I was using a reference to the previous phase of night instead of taking a random time. I understand why you don't want to draw it up.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:28 pm

I believe it's wide but Moon=Neptune/Jupiter through opposition in my chart. Rose colored glasses, spritual beliefs on an emotional receptive level?

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:40 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:28 pm
I believe it's wide but Moon=Neptune/Jupiter through opposition in my chart. Rose colored glasses, spritual beliefs on an emotional receptive level?
That's too wide. An orb for a midpoint is rarely taken beyond 1° and "orb extremists" don't go past 2°. This one is about 4°.

(You don't really need to go any further than your Sagittarius Sun for this, do you?)
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Ok and it is wide I see that.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:22 pm

A friend of mine posted this recently. She's a college professor and tends to rant a bit over what she sees her students write in their papers. Anyway this seems relevant to your interests, Scarlet, and something I can agree with.
K. Rainwater wrote: What does "elite" mean?
Time to announce again--just to head off name-calling--that yes, I am an elitist. "Elitist" means "a person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite." Yes. A scientific elite. An educated elite. An informed elite. A literate elite. An elite of those who know what they're doing. Yes. If you are a professional, an educated person, a Navy Seal, etc., etc., then you obviously aspired to join some kind of "elite." The nice thing about the U.S.--well, once anyway--is that you CAN aspire to better yourself in these ways and join an "elite." If you think "elite" means "a group of snotboxes who act like the mean girls in middle school," then you need to explore the actual meaning of the word. Want your kids to go to an Ivy League school? Why? So they can be just like the hoi-polloi? I don't think so.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:26 pm

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:22 pm
A friend of mine posted this recently. She's a college professor and tends to rant a bit over what she sees her students write in their papers. Anyway this seems relevant to your interests, Scarlet, and something I can agree with.
K. Rainwater wrote: What does "elite" mean?
Time to announce again--just to head off name-calling--that yes, I am an elitist. "Elitist" means "a person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite." Yes. A scientific elite. An educated elite. An informed elite. A literate elite. An elite of those who know what they're doing. Yes. If you are a professional, an educated person, a Navy Seal, etc., etc., then you obviously aspired to join some kind of "elite." The nice thing about the U.S.--well, once anyway--is that you CAN aspire to better yourself in these ways and join an "elite." If you think "elite" means "a group of snotboxes who act like the mean girls in middle school," then you need to explore the actual meaning of the word. Want your kids to go to an Ivy League school? Why? So they can be just like the hoi-polloi? I don't think so.
Thanks jup sad. It's my Mars in Capricorn not wanting the connotation of elitist as an image. I'm realizing how much that planet placement actualy influences my life. [Not that I have a problem with it, Mars in Capricorn is one of the most befitting things about me].

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:34 pm

Note mercury-pluto at quarter-septile. It is befitting that they do go together as they are expressive(mercury) and powerful(pluto) on their own respects. I've read the aspect Jim has given (until future studies are done) I do see "intensified cognition/communication" within myself as well as the "heightened receptivity" of my Pluto-Moon. (Ironcly Pluto is as, I experience it, the most active part of my chart, followed by mercury then the luminaries (then the signs).

Seemingly the AC (rectified) is almost on mercury exactly , yet cannot be in aspect, and Pluto being approx degrees away is not in foreground, making Pluto seemingly dance around the angle. Curious to read angular Pluto in search of Parralels to my Pluto angle tango.

Update: angular Pluto describes me to a T. With one exception, that is the agnostic is replaced with "pantheism" instead of not being able to chose one faith I chose them all (they are all equally as existent).
Last edited by ScarletDepths on Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:09 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:34 pm
I've read the aspect Jim has given (for lack of better resource)
Is that what you meant to say?

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:12 pm

Yes, but not in the connotation you have perceived it. Jim has not done much extensive work on the 7th harmonic aspects as a whole, he and I discussed they probably are different than any dynamic or flat aspects he has done work on so far. However, those would be the next best thing to having the septile family of aspects thoroughly studied.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Question on transits to the Eastpoint. Do they act with angularity? [Curious on why Pluto angular is more relatable than that of Jupiter or the Sun (whom I consider secondary angular planets after mercury)].

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