Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Wondering what aspects and placements make a storm person?

I know my sun and moon are related to law and rulership but I feel more like anarchy and wilderness.

Back to stormy... calm on the surface maybe a little firey but raging waters underneath.

Moon-Pluto is definitely the "depths" thing. I've usually described it more like an iceberg, in the "five-sixths under the surface" sense. It's also consistent with anarchy (though I'd usually phrase it differently, the words I'd use mean about the same thing).

But actual storming... your chart has lots of Mars involvement we've discussed, with Mercury-Mars your closest aspect.

And don't underrate Mars in Capricorn (in fact, nearly at the degree of its exaltation). It's the Pan-wild stuff.

Don't undersell the Leo Moon, either. Besides the inherent strength, there is the side of Leo that demands an audience - a natural dramatist - and needs to find the behaviors that will draw this.

Moon in Leo wrote:Emotions intertwined with pride. Strong, noble, proud, natural leader, courageous, confident, practical, effective, indomitable. Dramatic; seldom pretentious. Gregarious (court of friends & admirers). Entertainer...

Agreed.

Tireless, dynamic, energetic, persevering.
Creates best "effects" through novel approaches and surprising intensity. ("Damn the torpedoes...")
Loves danger, risk; impulsively or fearlessly tackles any difficult situation. - They "expect the !reality of death*!
Impatient.
Barnstorming BOLDNESS & MORAL COURAGE. Abhors apathy in society !to an extent!.
Keen sense of humor.
Iconoclastic in theory but usually more conservative in behavior.
FREEDOM MOTIF dominates them. Claustrophobic.
Hates forced schedules - rarely comfortable in a "9 to 5" routine.
Little interest in theory unless it is immediately practical !or mysterious!*. Believes in ACTION, not idle dreams. (STATS: Low for Gauquelin scientists.)
Finds strategy more difficult than actual execution of a plan.
Pragmatic, if not iconoclastic, in religion. Conscious of the relevance and natural unity of all Creation, without getting lost in the clouds.!panthesist!
Able to reduce abstract truths, music, philosophical themes into terms understandable to the common person. (Talented teachers, !too young to know!.)
Seldom one-track minds. (Integrates several things.)
Keen analytical ability - hidden motives rarely escape their notice. Commonly astute judges of character.
Masterfully thorough.
Won't bother to say things without a specific reason, thus "low profile !i have my moments!." Slow to reveal own WEAKNESSES, but collects others' weaknesses.
Corked volcanoes. Ever in a state of "wanna." If immediate expression is denied them, they push tension under the surface where it builds, needing eventual release (and making them irritable).
PHALLIC awareness. Not squeamish in sexual matters.!Can have standards!
In a relationship, gives freely, generously, then expects of partner what they, themselves, have given.

I changed the Scorpio list because most of it described me, I put in !exclamation marks! Where I made changes.

This list is accurate down to the fear of small places, which I have both physically and mentally. I hate being trapped (I don't even like to be held.) There is more personal things I'd rather not say with the fear of small spaces.

Also the thing that made me lean from tropical to sidereal zodiac (back when I only understood sun signs, was the fact I associated Saggitarius with FREEDOM, I wanted freedom from the tropical sign of Capricorn i found it so impersonal for example, but now I'm reading this is more of a Scorpio trait...)

ScarletDepths wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:22 pm Also the thing that made me lean from tropical to sidereal zodiac (back when I only understood sun signs, was the fact I associated Saggitarius with FREEDOM, I wanted freedom from the tropical sign of Capricorn i found it so impersonal for example, but now I'm reading this is more of a Scorpio trait...)

Every astrological interpretation ever written - no exceptions, it captures everyone - is some mixture of observation and theory. Different astrologers have written interpretations that are predominantly theoretical or predominantly observational.

To the extent that Tropicalists and Siderealists alike are dependent on observation instead of theory, Sidereal interpretations of a sign will closely resemble Tropical interpretations of the subsequent sign. If you examine people born in the last half of December and the first half of January, and discover they have certain traits in common, then Tropicalists will assign those traits to Capricorn and Siderealists will assign them to Sagittarius. The people have the same character regardless.

To the extent astrologers go by theory, they two will sound very different.

I certainly have no wish to dissuade you from the thing that made you lean toward the Sidereal. Nonetheless, honestly freedom is not a Sagittarius trait and is absolutely a Scorpio trait. Its a characteristic of planets like Mars and Uranus, the former of which is the only planet traditionally dignified in Scorpio (and, if we were to assign exaltations of the outermost planets, many of us would credit Uranus as exalted in Scorpio - especially because of this fierce freedom need).

Jupiter, the sole planet dignified in Sagittarius, has nothing to do with freedom and, in fact often gets caught up in circumstances that are anything but free.

BTW, though there weren't a lot of posts in it, we had a survey of Sun in Sagittarius traits back in December-January and at least one Super Sagittarian replied, someone with Sun, Moon, and several planets in Sag. You might be interested in reading some of the posts, which you can find here:
http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1821

The traits you are seeing in yourself don't come from the Sagittarian Sun but from something else in your chart.

Yes I am an ambitious deep and stubborn those are some I can agree with, but I'd also say these traits can be found in other signs, I no inclination toward law what so ever or order I actually prefer change and dispise habits.

I've noted that the traits you discribed to Scorpio most of them tropical astrologers agreed with, I showed the list specifically to an astrology who probably has been practicing for 60 years now and he agreed with all but a few of them (and not because they were wrong, but because he hadn't seen them overwhelmingly in Scorpios and he made this very clear and that it was his opinion not necessarily fact.)

I don't think it means anything but I was born a month after my expected birth date and I was supposed to be born then as a second estimate on the first day of winter, 6 days before I was actually born.

I'm expansive in nature as I want to learn but past that not always. Just interesting that I don't really resonate in my personality with my sun sign tropical or sidereal. Do you use astroids at all or is that a no? Typically I use Chiron but that's normally all.

Also how do I come across over the screen in your personal opinion? Anything specfilicy stick out astrology wise.

ScarletDepths wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:20 am I don't think it means anything but I was born a month after my expected birth date and I was supposed to be born then as a second estimate on the first day of winter, 6 days before I was actually born.

No, all the evidence is that when you were actually born matters. The largest block of evidence in this regard arose out of the Gauquelin astro-heredity study, in which they found that planetary angularity tends to be inherited from mother to child during periods when natural birth was the norm, and such inheritance tends to disappear (become random) during periods and places where most births were induced or scheduled for convenient business hours; and yet, character trait analysis against their angular planets remained as strong in the induced eras as in the non-induced eras.

[quote[Do you use astroids at all or is that a no? Typically I use Chiron but that's normally all.[/quote]
I was one of the early writers on Chiron. I consider it valid, but its effects usually seem quite slight - enough so that I almost never look at it. I've been watching it again this last week because it transited my Descendant (and there was a triple Mercury-Venus-Chiron conjunction right on my Descendant). Most astrologers who use Chiron have settled into a "healing" metaphor, but it has always seemed to me to emphasize a "civilized wildness," a galloping freedom - and to have especially a sense of "teacher." I've seen charts of great, astounding teachers who wake people up extraordinarily with Chiron tightly angular or, on the other hand, people strongly Chironian to whom finding such a teacher and adhering to it are foremost priorities. (Many later become one.) It's been hard for me to watch transits to it in my own chart, since it conjoins my Mars within 0°04' so there is no way to separate them.

Similarly, in your case, Chiron is a quarter degree from your Pluto so it would be hard to distinguish its independent effects. This does give you a partile Moon-Chiron square that could be quite important to you.

As for asteroids... I've used them for highly specialized purposes, but not routinely. (One of my fundamental astrological values is to "get the most from the least.") I've been looking more intently for a year or so at Ceres, because if (big if) astrological influences behave similarly to other physical laws, then we would expect Ceres to have a very significant effect: It's almost the same size as Pluto and much closer. But so far, neither the historic interpretations of Ceres nor other intimations I've had have held up.

Of all the "big four" asteroids, Juno would be most important to you - partile conjunct your Sun and foreground. Oh, and Ceres is exactly (18') square your Ascendant (i.e., on the Zenith) and closely square your Sun. I'm not sure you're going to get much out of that, but I mention it.

On the rare occason I seek out information from asteroids, it is for very specialized work after we've otherwise pretty much exhausted the reading of a chart and want to get into subtleties. In this case, I use them purpely as mythic themes igniting in the psyche - I think my late friend Tony Joseph, who dedicated his life to this understanding of astrology, was onto something, and the "something" rests with the asteroids. These don't necessarily show in the character (they may), but seem to speak to a deeper part of someone's psyche. I would never start with them - one has to understand the more conventional core character descriptors first - but the asteroids then can add something, a "finishing."

In your case, I notice the following other asteroid hits to your faster planets:

Aesculapia (a feminine version of Aesculapius) is conjunct your Sun (0°
21'). [June is 0°51' from your Sun, as mentioned.)
Circe conjoins your Moon (0°14'). Nemesis opposes your oon (0°22').
Siva conjoin your Venus (0°45').

Also, Niobe conjoins your IC in the zodiac (0°24'), but that's not how angularity is measured and I don't have an easy way at hand to calculate its angularity. As Niobe is 27° north of the ecliptic, the difference may be considerable.

From what I got there they aren't worth all that much. I read through descriptions of some of a good number of my planets in the signs my Venus Mercury and Pluto in they sign descriptions a very accurate. I have to do some further reading on some of the others.

Scarlet, you'll love this one! - With your self-description centering around chaos and disruption, I notice that you have a closely angular Eris!!

Eris, as you may know, is a minor planet, far past Pluto. It may have no value, but it does appear to have some consistent themes that are not too unrelated to its name. Chaos and disruption seem to be central themes. Ecliptically, Eris appears not to be angular in your chart at all, but angularity is measured mundanely. As you have Sun 1°21' below Ascendant and Jupiter 2°27' east of IC, you also have Eris 2°42' east of IC.

One old thread summarizing preliminary observations is here:
http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=487

Interesting. I enjoy chaos yes. Freedom even more but I'm definitely not an anarchist per say more of a free sprit.

Looping back to the original thread... since all of the extended discussion has been about signs, let's drop them out of the picture and see how the chart speaks just from angles and aspects, the dynamic components of a chart. You of course still have your Moon-Pluto and Venus-Mars squares, among others, but one thing persists: Sun and Jupiter remain the two strongly angular planets. The chart still describes you as fundamentally royal or aristocratic in your orientation (but, of course, one of the ill-behaved aristocrats, given that Moon-Pluto <g>.

Anyway... as a simpler view that bypasses the zodiacal issues that have been so much under discussion... here (from my automated system) is a brief look at your chart ignoring signs altogether.


ANGULAR PLANETS

SUN CONJUNCTION ASCENDANT Orb 1°10' Applying
Warm, friendly, generous, shining their light on the world (often in a paternal, possibly controlling, sense). Vital, assertive, confident (or acts it). Aware they have purpose (goal, destiny) they must seek, find, and actualize. At best: is in charge of self & does well leading others (can be bossy, demanding, entitled). Needs centricity (attracts satellites; may expects others' world to revolve around them). Drawn to proud, useful institutions. Instinct for immortality.

JUPITER OPPOSITION THE MIDHEAVEN Orb 2°50' Separating
Positive, optimistic, oriented to the good & qualitative. Aspires to (enjoys) life of leisure & its perks (seeks to improve self & conditions). Unusually lucky. Generous, congenial, tolerant, good-humored, kind. Sexually giving. Needs esteem & inclusion (usually well received; can be overly role-conscious). Responds to cultural totems, heritage, tradition, social graces, social & ceremonial rituals. Champion of justice & fair play. (If afflicted: air of superiority, judgmental, greedy, envious; making own luck through shady ethics or crime.)


ASPECTS

ASPECTS OF MOON
SQUARE PLUTO Orb 1°01' Applying
Bold & forthright, questioning & challenging, maverick & alien; independent, “marching to a different drummer,” resisting authority. Avoids habitual conformity (rebellious?); resists conventional conditioning and being made to concur with others’ values and codes. Restless, unwilling to be still for long, can uproot or take to the road on little notice. Deeply inquiring into existential mysteries, often igniting remarkable intuitive insights.

SESQUISQUARE JUPITER Orb 0°10' Separating
Ambitious, desires success. Social elitism (feigned superiority, aristocratic conceit). Drawn to quality: desires the best. Good-humored, entertaining, kind, generous (natural host). Strong beliefs (religious or patriotic intensity, morality, judgment).

TRINE SATURN Orb 0°15' Applying
Hardworking, self-driving. Encourages others. Usually emotionally reserved, private. Resistant to others' rules & control (passive-aggressive response). Parent issues persist(nourishment-deprivation). Judgmental, intolerant, distrustful. Can be pessimistic, feeling inferior, anxious, depressed.

ASPECTS OF MERCURY
SEXTILE MARS Orb 0°06' Separating
Quite a charmer with wit & edgy humor. Mind is quick, creative, strategic, opinionated. Independent thinker, enjoys argument, critical, nervous. Vulnerability to addiction.

TRINE JUPITER Orb 0°53' Applying
Intelligent; seems well-read, educated. Loves ideas & learning, comfortable with words. Good-tempered, kind. Optimistic. Business potential (from luck more than skill?). Always awaiting the next opportunity or break.

ASPECTS OF VENUS
SQUARE MARS Orb 1°28' Separating
Passion (in all senses), feels powerfully about things. Strong sexual passions mature early, continue late, rarely encumbered by too many conditions. Broadly fun-loving, socially active, loves romance: interesting, likable, sociable, horny people. Relationships, often picked for ferocity, easily hit conflict, strain, or burnout. (More likely homicidal than suicidal.)

ASPECTS OF MARS
SEXTILE JUPITER Orb 0°59' Applying
Playful, strong, competitive, enterprising. Zest, vitality, enthusiasm, courage, confidence. Sexually lusty, eager, popular, on the hunt. Generous or extravagant (money flees). Bold with beliefs, evangelical (enthusiasts, missionaries, barnstormers).

Thanks Jim. I've never disagreed with a single aspect of my chart (I do see some more than others). I think it is the same way with the signs too in my chart, some apply more than others, however my luminary signs seemlying apply less than others, almost like they don't match up, my innate nature is then to identify with one that fits me best. Honestly that may be wrong but I' guess I don't really care if it is, if someone wants to pin the core of who I am with basic sign astrology I'll tell them how I am and what u experience the most, not what is theoretically true. I make connections to things that only a small number of people feel (Pluto or Scorpio energy not sure what one) either way I'd say stormy discribes me better than any trait in my sun or moon signs typical arsenal.

For whatever reason I'm not seeing fire as this symbol of war and leadership but as a symbol of creation through the ashes of the old and rebelion. I have a natural draw to both water and fire (as in the elements) btw.