Saggitarius...?

[Soft Alpaca]

Tropical traditional descriptions of the old time sag were actually speaking of a unmerciful assassin type willing to kill and fight there way the top. Mercenary type.

Modern sag tropical description is spiritual a free thinker and a traveler. They live by there own rules and don't care for anyone else's. There fariy passive and forgiving and want to see the best out of life. Preacher type.

Sidereal sag iseems political and prick like. Caring about elitism and class, they live by there own rules and think everyone else should too. They want to climb the social ladder and get on top so they can explore/do as they want with no contest (?). Lawman type.

As a saggitarius I can say that I can see the need for expansion in life (not my top priority however), forget politics and social elitism (I know many tropical and sidereal saggitarius I don't even get where this idea is coming from as maybe one of the 10 plus other people I know cares for law or social class for that matter). I am ambitious and a traveler and do like to live by my own accord, as I believe all people should as their life is their own. I'm not here to enforce anything but I'm curious as to what this sidereal sag is about, I don't agree with it if I'm understanding what's being said about them, but maybe I'm in just not understanding it? Also what's with this whole social class and law thing (yes again)? I'm really having trouble grasping where this is coming from especially because I'm always outside the norms of social structure (and I like it here).

[Jim Eshelman]

We saw some of this anti=traditionalism in Sagittarians when Pluto is in Virgo, squaring their Suns. Pluto left, and Sagittarians overall returned to type. Pluto is now about a decade into its passage through Sagittarius, and is having some of the same effect.

However, this isn't a reason to change the underlying interpretation. The same underlying interpretation is there, and (in whatever the next generation of form will be), will reassert itself once Pluto leaves Sag.

Yes, Sagittarius seems class, rank, status, and elitism oriented because it is inherently hierarchical - compassionate, but not democratic. (Consider the early U.S. presidents from Virginia who were the strongest voices for building our constitution around rulership be a select few: Washington, Jefferson, Monroe), all of whom had Sagittarius Moons. Etc.

And I can see why you get the feeling that they are prick-like. They are definitely ivory tower, and most have difficulty dropping airs and relating to people honestly - so, in bad times, they can become quite isolated. They set a high standard for excellence, the shadow side of which is seeming judgmental.

But you seem to be overlooking quite a lot of other things written in the same Sagittarius interpretations. The hierarchical, "higher and higher" motif also has a spiritual dimension. There is a deep commitment to doing what's right (as they best understand and conceive it, of course). Especially, Sagittarius is deeply committed to their tribe - the meaning of which varies with their own values (e.g., it could mean literal family, their nation, a clan, a particular group of friends of colleagues with whom they identify or any number of other totems). Their inherent nature is to uplift.

In the archetypal flow of the constellations, Scorpio represents the raw unleashing of Mars-force (the essence of adolescence) which is wild, animal-driven, savage, primal. Sagittarius, as the next step, is the civilizing power: Half animal, half human, with the animal part behind: The rising up from the animal (uplifting) and building of persisting, evolving civilization, accumulation of heritage, and preservation and advancing of the institutions that allow each generation to further that civilization. (In individuals, it is the stage of civilizing the young adult and incorporating them into society, in the years leading to and centered around the second Jupiter Return).

I suspect you will say this is exactly the stuff you want nothing to do with. I hope I get the chance to hear your point of view on it in, say, 10 years after you have passed through that stage of maturation and stand on the edge of your Saturn Return.

[Soft Alpaca]

People are animals. I've always belived that, and society and civilation are normal in many species of animals. However, I'm more concerned with what drives us instinctually than codes we make up to make our selves feel good insid. We think we're above nature and that's so very wrong. The earth will rid of us eventually, we still can't stop natural disastors because we are not supposed to:

I grew up poor and in a bad situation Jim, I saw social elitism and the system screw my family over one too many times. Why would I ever want to be a part of something like that?

[Jim Eshelman]

I grew up poor and in a bad situation Jim, I saw social elitism and the system screw my family over one too many times. Why would I ever want to be a part of something like that?

Perhaps not that social elitism. (Not the elitism of the 1%.)

What are your highest values - your vision of the best humanity could produce? What are your distinctions of the best and worst in people?

[Soft Alpaca]

The best people are the ones who feel passion towards one another and toward life and realize that we're all similar because we're all animals and we aren't perfect. The worst are people who think there above others, people who think that they aren't just as primal and imperfect as the next guy.