Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Reading about Mars in Capricorn i have to say it is probably my most important sign (in this point of time). Not because of the chart in specfic but rather because if it's accuracy (that is Mars in Capricorn description) and the general sign of sidereal Capricorn.

Ironicly I left tropical astrology, running from a Capricorn Sun, the dread of being emotionless, cold, boring, plain/flavorless, was not my thing. Now it is sidereal Mars in Capricorns accuracy (in part) keeping me here, and what taught me to help tropical astrologers see the truth behind their "tropical Capricorn" (which does somewhat overlap with the sidereal) that is the wild and darker [for lack of a better word] description of the sign. But enough on that.

Id like to know more about Mars in sidereal Capricorn, how the sign expresses in its natives (is it as important in others as it shows in me)? Espicaly important question does mars being exalted make the sign more expressive (than say another Mars sign) or does it just effect the strength of the planet?

Personal stories, people who have the placement, and etc would be appreciated. I know it may seem like I talk a lot (i do, sorry) and share too much, but i know the other Capy Mars know that we can keep our privacy while appearing completely open. (Yes it may be tough for you to share I understand that and respect that).

https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=32#p124

My personal notes on the summary given by Jim. Link to Mars in Capricorn listed above.

Courage.
[Not the kind of confrontational, balsy stuff done by my angular Scorpio/Mars Mercury rising, but more seen in sacrifice (literal, blood sacrifice if I had to) for loved ones.

Stands own ground (prefers action to complaining).
[My stubborn Sun if you may, does not match my Mars standing it's ground. I'm a lot more tactful when I'm standing my ground/being stubborn with my sag Sun.]

Confrontational
[verbally due to my Mars Mercury aspects and placements to being with. I don't often fight or hit but I would say this is when I do get physical. Normally it's a one and done kind if deal. I will get in people's faces]

Discontent: creates unnecessary struggle & conflict (over authority, control, father issues).
[I can't speak for the father issues. I do thrive in chaos, but not toxic chaos. I think us Mars in Capricorn types have a different view on necessities than others in General].

Private, secretive, self-veiling. (Mysterious façade, or deceptive; to avoid control, look good, or not be found out).
[As seen in my user title, as seen in my original birth chart posted on this site. I dont care as much about looking bad, I'm fine with being the monster. It's more about not getting hurt <that took a lot to say>]

Much unresolved shadow
[Not always wanting to resolve it either. I think it's important to keep your demons hungry and on a leash, but not to pacify them]

Vulnerable to dark moods
[Isn't everyone lol. I think we are just some of the first to admit/show it. In pertaining to the above unresolved shadow, yes sometimes we loosesn up the leash on our dogs too much and get bit. I like my dark moods personally (part of thriving in a mess I think)]

Carries past darkness around.
[Forgive, but don't forget. Few are aware of the dark pasts, I give mine in parts to people I trust, who are few and far between. Just in case my demons take over they can put the pecies together and cut me down]

Sexually forthright (strong needs + practicality).
[May be related in the dark pasts. Weither the abuser or the abused/misused. Others may use sex as a practicality to "escape" or realise tension from said shadiws/skeletons/dark pasts.]

Comparing Mars Capricorn vs Sun Capricorn.

http://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35#p164

Survival and autonomy needs foremost.
Mats looses Saturns effects (Maybe some but not all). I have a fairly strong Saturn so I relate to this trait.

sociable; not self-disclosing.
Not self disclosing is a common theme. Mars is action so I can't say it denotes the communication part of the social. Maybe sexually/physically social.

Humor, storyteller, prankish, music.
My mercury denotes music, as well as most of these. I could see Mars in Capricorn retaining the prankishness.

Good resource manager.
I think the Mars Capricorn could be good at doing action oriented tasks

Struggles against tough odds.
This one carries thematically throughout Capricorn.

Discontent, combative, resists persuasion and conformity.
I would say that combative and resistance to authority and conformity is mostly Mars driven in Capricorn (note Mars rules Scorpio and produces similar themes). It would definitely make sense that if these are Mars driven than a Mars Capricorn would carry these traits.

Values past; defies status quo.
I can't say Mars would/wouldn't value the past, however defying the status quo is right up Mar's ally

Emotions cautious initially.
Another trait seemingly linked to Saturn. (One I have) However not to Mars.

Extreme libido.
This carries through in most Capricorn placements. In relation to Mars it's obvious.

Lastly comparing Mars/Moon in Capricorn.

http://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34#p151

Restless, confrontational.
All Mars placements and aspects I would say are restless. The question is more restless in what area of life. Confrontational is a thematic Mars and Capricorn idea.

Resists persuasion, authority, & conformity.
Hits hard toward home for me. I'd like to say these traits carry through the Mars in Capricorn but my Pluto energy may bias me.

Sharp, unconventional mind.
I wouldn't say I can link the mind to Mars. I can say that if the mind is an important asset to a Mars in Capricorn type that it could carry this effect over

Socially charming; not self-disclosing.
Sexually charming is a Mars Capricorn idea, again I dint know about socialy. Self disclosing is thematic and avoids social situations.

Humor, prankish, outlandish.
See Sun in Capricorn

Sexually attractive; wild libido.
These I consider to carry over to Mars in Capricorn

Identifies with the fringe, “bad boy/girl” (but essentially wholesome).
I think Mars in Capricorn could complement these ideas, however I note that they may care too much about their image to do this (unless this is what they want to put off). I don't know that I would call Mars in Capricorn wholesome

Dark, grotesque, shocking, disturbing style (loves dark occult images).
These do describe me, again may be my Pluto side. I think however that on a psychological level, espically if they have come to terms with their shadow side, a Mars Capricorn could carry these traits

Vulnerable to dark moods.
I think that Mars In Capricorn is always in a dark mood, they just may put it on the back burner.

Often severe childhoods or early loss.
This is a Saturn theme. (One that I do share)

Notable Moon Capricorn:
Joan Jett

Mars in Capricorn is not uncommon in charts of people well known. From Michelle Obama to Queen Elizabeth the 2nd to the purposed chart of an antichrist to Leonardo Da Vinci and Albert Einstein. [Edit it is uncommon my apologies]

I don't know any of these people personally of course nore have I studied them. With the themes of privacy I do assume that for those with Mars in Capricorn that it is difficult to tell this placement. [Unless the individual of course wants to have it known].

I however (at least with the individuals I have listed) can't say I'm surprised to find out that they are Mars in Capricorns.

A sect of privacy must be kept to live a happy life whilst under the public eye. To keep the fact that the sect exists hidden is something that I would say Mars Capricorns are capable of.

ScarletDepths wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:55 pm Mars in Capricorn is not uncommon in charts of people well known.

FYI Mars is in Capricorn about 1/15 of the time (6.78%), so it is somewhat rarer than average - for both known and unknown people.

Thanks for keeping me in bounds Jim.

I've noted something I do that hits home with my Mars sign. As a non heterosexual person who is straight passible, I often let people believe that I am straight (I won't tell them I am, however I can easily entertain conversations about the opposite sex). It's not fear or image that I'm protecting, rather that I don't feel the need to share, unless of course it puts me in a better position.

Reflecting on communication between friends (co-workers). It is said that I have cryptic communication (as of I can casually talk about death/murder/rape dark stuff) and it is hard to tell if I am being serious or joking. Some of my co-workers have stated that if they were forced to kill each other off I would be the last to go, purely because they legitimately habe concern about me haunting them.

I'm reflecting on this somewhat mixed humor and seriousness. I don't believe in ghosts (or disbelieve either) I'm not insulted that people peg me as the haunting type.

Why talk about this placement?

Espically as a non-disclosing placement [one that a person with it may not want to discuss it]. Most of this aspect is confounded in being secretive.

In fact it takes up a good bit of the information on the sign/planet placement, therefore I believe there may be something more to this sign. What is it so disclosed for.

Jim probably hit the top layer of the iceberg with the carries around much unresolved shadow portion of it. To which I can say I am impressed.

There are some other possibilities.

1) Is to remain autonomous (this I put at the front because it coincides with Mars's realm of rule)

2)It is a surival mechanism. However I doubt this less as it is a Saturn link to Capricorn.

3)It is to cover up it's tics and out of line oddities. As well as to be able to continue them safely.

However it's probably a bit of every thing rather than one specfic idea.

More on Capricorn

Tribunal Archtype

I believe Capricorns have a tri-nature archetype (Pan,Mars,Saturn) each have a core cornerstone to the sign.

Saturn-Survival and self-preservation themes/needs

Mars- Autonomy and indepence themes/needs

Pan- Sex and wild themes/needs (note I mean not wild as in free, but perhaps some of the oddity of Capricorn comes from this archtype. Its "extra" compared to Mars freedom themes, and Saturn wouldn't have it do to the lack of practicality)

............

Planetry-Sign Archetypal Focus

Mars in Capricorn then would aim focus on the Autonomy and independence needs of Capricorn. Creating a shroud or literaly living in a shadow would be a way to maximize independence. However being alone and living in a shadow could surely cause damage (maybe why Mars Capricorn types carry it around so well).

Respectively Sun-Capricorn types to me appear more Saturn biased (I know too that Capricorn was originally ruled by the Sun, perhaps establishing the original anti-moon ideas of the sign). They might not be specficly Saturnine however. Im not Stating that Mars or Pan archetypes are lacking, but Saturn may be the ringleader.

Lastly then is Moon-Capricorn. I would say this is the place where Saturn may show the least, or perhaps instead of showing the least may be the least stable. If the Pan archetype does sit at the foremost here, it would support my idea of Pan representing the over necessary or "extra" wild side to Capricorn. While the marcabe may be in Saturns range of rule, Capricorn sometimes even over extends that (espically the lunar types). To say the Moon-Capricorn types are more sexed than the others wouldn't be as arguable. However the Moon itself is a quite hungry planet, with a high sexual appetite, supporting congruency between the Pan archtype and Moon-Capricorn energy.

This is a Sidereal Astrology site. Please don't post "archtypes" derived from tropical astrology. We don't want people to wander in and think we agree with that stuff, because we don't. It's not a contribution to this site to post that stuff. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of sites with that stuff. This is the only Sidereal discussion site. If you just have to refer to that stuff, link it. Please don't post it here.

I realize this is all about you becoming, but Jim pays for this site and the space you use whether it's relevant or not. This isn't a personal notebook.

"The fundamental archetype of Capricorn is that of Pan, satyrs, the frolics of nature, and expressions of the primitive, often demonized by repression into demonic emblems. "

Merely stating a theory that archetypes such as the pan archetype clearly found in Jims work of Capricorn may be more prevalent or direct depending on when They the Capricorn energy cones from the Sun,Moon, or Mars sign.

It is merely a theory.

What you missed, I think, is that all of that Pan-themed behavior is an exact expression of Saturn and Mars. The "third" component doesn't add much if anything.

ScarletDepths wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:26 pm It is merely a theory.

Still the wrong place to espouse it.
What is it with you Sagittarian Suns, compelled as you all seem to be to assemble some archtype stuff as if it's new, and post it here as if you're contributing something? As I've told other Sagittarians, if you want to conglomerate tropical and Sidereal, season with "ancient" mythology, and publish it as your own ideas, please get your own site. We are not a "traditional astrology" site, nor a history site. This stuff doesn't belong here.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:30 pm What you missed, I think, is that all of that Pan-themed behavior is an exact expression of Saturn and Mars. The "third" component doesn't add much if anything.

Ok Jim. Thanks for correcting me. I understand now more so where you are coming from.

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:22 pm

ScarletDepths wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:26 pm It is merely a theory.

Still the wrong place to espouse it.
What is it with you Sagittarian Suns, compelled as you all seem to be to assemble some archtype stuff as if it's new, and post it here as if you're contributing something? As I've told other Sagittarians, if you want to conglomerate tropical and Sidereal, season with "ancient" mythology, and publish it as your own ideas, please get your own site. We are not a "traditional astrology" site, nor a history site. This stuff doesn't belong here.

Dear Jsad,
Why i don't like to be a Saggitarius? Or don't agree with it is in part to how you sound (as more Jupiter heavy than I am) when speaking about the sign.

Still the wrong place to espouse it.
What is it with you "insert race", compelled as you all seem to be to assemble some archtype stuff as if it's new, and post it here as if you're contributing something? As I've told other "insert race", if you want to conglomerate tropical and Sidereal, season with "ancient" mythology, and publish it as your own ideas, please get your own site. We are not a "traditional astrology" site, nor a history site. This stuff doesn't belong here- "aka you don't belong here".

Note I've quoted my words not to make them your own, but this is what you sound like to me.

1) I was working off of Jims work, no Pan anything is used on or in tropical astrology. I understand you may not agree with what I'm saying, but that doesn't automatically make it something from tropical astrology.
Please read tropical texts if you wish to quote them or say that i quote them. I don't quote them, unless I say "tropical" this than chances are I'm not using tropical astrology.

2) you sound more Jupiter like than any Tropical or Sidereal Saggitarius I have ever met. In fact a lot of what you say could be applied in some way to yourself

3)Please stop using signs to call people out. You just assume one thing is linked to one sign, you tell me to leave i feel like because of that one sign. You honestly sound incredibly racist/sexist etc. toward certian signs when you speak. Again another Jupiter idea.

I don't call you a fool, I don't intentionaly insult you or Jims work. As a pluto heavy person I am actualy quite passive and I will take a lot. I hope you understand where I'm coming from Jsad. Jims a grown up he can fend for himself. I'm sorry I'm different, and that I don't fit inside your cookie cutter idea of astrology. So tell me that rather than saying you "x" people your all wrong.

I am different, sighting the things that established astrology is like making a works cited page, I have respect for the founders and foundation of astrology, even though I may not follow them to the tee and may change the status quo.

You honestly come across to be/ I perceive you as a biggot.

You're right, I should have posted my observations on Sagittarian Sun natives repeated postings of a mish-mash of tropical clap-trap, misunderstood mythology and personal study notes tricked out as some kind of "archtype" and posted as a "contribution" to a site devoted to Sidereal astrology to the thread on Sagittarian Suns. Just as I should post my observations of Sagittarian Sun natives consistant attempts to turn any criticism around on the critic and to call names to that thread.

Such observations are, however, not bigoted, and you need to apologize for suggesting they are.

However, the point remains. Your theory doesn't belong here. Please remove it.

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:54 pm You're right, I should have posted my observations on Sagittarian Sun natives repeated postings of a mish-mash of tropical clap-trap, misunderstood mythology and personal study notes tricked out as some kind of "archtype" and posted as a "contribution" to a site devoted to Sidereal astrology to the thread on Sagittarian Suns. Just as I should post my observations of Sagittarian Sun natives consistant attempts to turn any criticism around on the critic and to call names to that thread.

Such observations are, however, not bigoted, and you need to apologize for suggesting they are.

However, the point remains. Your theory doesn't belong here. Please remove it.

Your not getting it. I understand what you sad I the first time. I'm sorry I have upset you, but your bad for business. Your and my chart share some similar energy perhaps that's why we clash. As I understand it this is the first time I have tried to turn it around on you. If you can point out another example that would show more clarity.

Do you have a bad relationship with this sign? Abuse from other sag suns, and expriences etc? This seems to go past me.

You aren't seeing my other signs as well, we both have a strong Leo as well as strong solar energies. And I don't show my Mars sign on this sight nearly as much as I do in person. Which is why I'm asking if you have had bad relationships with the sign that puts you at a predisposed unliking?

Everything from Jsads correction down to this post I would like to have moved to a new thread under the misc posting area.

Seems to me that everything has been on topic - either of discussing Mars in Capricorn, or processing your relationship to these words and ideas, or administrative matters.

You and JSAD actually have some very positive chart connections, including your Moon closely conjunct her Sun and her Moon closely conjunct your Jupiter. There's some potential volatility from your Mars square her Uranus (and, somewhat distantly, opposite her Saturn). You can look these up in the Synastry section.

And yes, I think what you're detecting is that Sagittarians have been known to show up here acting a bit like a centaur's arse at first, especially in ways JSAD enumerated that resemble your behavior sometimes. There's particular sensitivity to a tendency of some Sagittarians to try to impose their idea of what Sidereal astrology should be rather than come here to learn what it is.

I'm not complaining exactly... I know people have their own learning cycles... but you asked if there was a context larger than just you. Yes, there is: It's a pattern of (a) young (b) male (c) Sagittarians into which you easily fit.

Im sorry that i come across as to be imposing me ideas. I mean more to state them. If you disagree I understand. Most times I merely wish to spark a conversation (not even about me) and it always back fires.

As I see it as a general rule im wrong very often, however that doesn't mean necssarily that the other person is right and vise versa.

I'm not just detecting that Jim. It may be part of it and yes I'm known to be a pain in the back side I admit this. It's in my chart Sag Sun thinks there better than people at times (for me it's not that I actualy begin to think this, it is perceived as such). Leo Moon can be attention whores (I don't like the spotlight but I'm sure I have my moments) and the nature of my mercury is to argue.

However I am here to learn. At the end of the day I am going to disagree with sag traits to some extent, it's in my nature to be discontent, to want to be unlabeled as well as a history of not liking the things that are the best, that are better, or that are courtly [These things are explained in my chart]. I'm trying to express myself (which can be difficult for me!) In a way which it is noted that I am atypical for the sign. Even for a Leo too. Because I share different fundamentals. However this is off topic.

I relate to my Mars signs traits the most. In this post I admit to having an agenda, the goal is to do with observation of other Mars Capricorns. I want to see how they feel in relation to the sign.

I hope to Jim that you with a soild understanding of my Mars sign are at least keeping in mind that with me, what you see is not always what you get.

ScarletDepths wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:14 pm I hope to Jim that you with a soild understanding of my Mars sign are at least keeping in mind that with me, what you see is not always what you get.

Of course, Nonetheless, if people take you seriously and as sincere, they need to respond to what you show them. "What they see" (what you show them) is the character to which they will respond, right?

Of course. However the pre-pain in the behind sag have left a bad taste in or on the mouths of some on this sight. The first words you ever said you perceived me as were the most accurate to who I actualy am. You and Jsad I think both agree that sag may need some updates, as the pain in the arse isn't so directly quoted in the sag description.

Part of my difference perhaps with other sag is I hate seeing things so nicely wrapped up in paper and bow when in all reality the wrapping paper may have cost lives of thousands of trees and the bow was made but under paid starving Chinese factory children. I believe perhaps this part of me may come from the Mars side.

In real life Jim, I adapt to my environment doing whatever it takes to get what I want [that means what I want had to exceed my core personality which is to be myself uninhibited by others]. I'm partly personable by nature, however sometimes I must act to get the right amount. Most of my life is spent in a more pretending to be what I'm not, and if I do it well it will never be shown as such. This to me is why I truthfully [behind no masks would call myself a Capricorn first]. Of course saying I'm a Leo and a Sag aren't lying and as such if I knew they were applicable (perhaps my future boss has a lot of Leo energy or someone displays it via ring or tattoo or ect.) Then to that person I will state I have strong Leo energy.

"Reading about Mars in Capricorn i have to say it is probably my most important sign (in this point of time).

Not because of the chart in specfic but rather because if it's accuracy (that is Mars in Capricorn description) and the general sign of sidereal Capricorn."

I gotta say, it is really hard to understand what you are saying often. I have no idea what your second sentence is meaning. Is that how you talk in real life? Regardless...

You dont have mars in capricorn. Period.

You have you mars widely conjunct uranus squared venus sextile mercury and sextiled jupiter.

You fight to not be pigeon holed and reduced, which no one here has done except you. How can you possible one day say your all pluto, then the next scorpio and then now your mars in capricorn is you. Reread what you write and have written since you started posting and you might see how your all over the place, dipping into this and that sign or planet based on readings and conversations you have had elsewhere which are not based on true science.

You have a planetary dynamic that involves five planets in five different signs and it seems like you enjoy restricting yourself into thinking each one is a stand alone youness.

I think if you are serious about knowing yourself then you should pick one system and stick with it and if you pick this system you should read and reflect on all the articles and information posted in all of these forums. The answers are here is you do the work and look for them and spend time reflecting on things and sorting it out in your mind before you string words together that are very difficult to follow.

I would agree this is a strong competent to your character but not as a stand alone planet in a sign but a complex interworking of several personal needs you are trying to fullfill.

Just glancing through random astrology (basically memes because most of what is on the internet is tropical astrology).

However once in a while I come across something that makes a little sense. In this case it was an interpretation of Mars in Capricorn, the author of course talked about Mars being exalted in Capricorn, but also noted Saturn had high stamina and managed to conclude that this made Mars in Capricorn bodily intuitive.

Saturn I would relate to intuition itself, thoughts?
Mars in capricorn - bodily intuition (reading ones body like a moon dominate person reads their feelings?)?

Beanies+Bad habits wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:44 pm Saturn I would relate to intuition itself, thoughts?
Mars in capricorn - bodily intuition (reading ones body like a moon dominate person reads their feelings?)?

There is a Qabbalistic interpretation of Saturn that expressly links it to intuition (as the higher of two expressions of Saturn on the Tree of Life) Qabbalah, of course, isn't astrology - it's a separate system that employs astrological labels for its own purposes, so any such input has to be judged independently, on its own merits.

It seems to me (from watching people navigate Qabbalistic spiritual evolution system), that those who have progressed to very deep spiritual levels of awareness undergo a flip in how Saturn operates. The first characteristic is that their relationship to physical, biological survival collapses (for lack of a better word; it's not that they no longer have a survival instinct but, rather, that their bodies go along benefiting from a survival instinct while the individual has learned that he or she is not at all the body). The psychological energies previously committed of survival, or to experiencing themselves as primarily biological beings, collapses and re-expreseses as a function commonly called intuition. "Intuition" in this sense means direct acquisition of knowing through means that are neither physical-sensory, intellectual, or emotional.

This also shifts the relationship of time. Saturn is intimately connected to time. Generally it expresses as the limitations of time, insufficiency of time, etc. After the above shift, the more natural perception is nested in the recognition of time as infinite and as inseparable from substance.

This shift is also the threshold of the laughing Buddha. The "everything is sorrow" observation (to use the grossly-simplified popular rendering of dukkha) is understood in a way that is inseparable from "everything is joy" and an incessant, joyous joke. (No need to explain the joke: It would take too long anyway.)

Saturn also is reality. It never ceases to be that; but as one's perception and understanding of the nature of reality changes, so does Saturn's performance within it.

So, having regrettably been more confusing than clarifying, I would respond to your inquiry by saying, yes, there is an atypical situation where Saturn is an expression of the deeper, gnostic sense of intuition.

IMO, its takes this ‘Saturn type intuition’ to allow any type of ‘adeptship’ in any type field one endeavors to pursue. IMO, It can only be attained in any field with lots of mental/physical-- work experience. Great post Jim.

I think my life events have lead me to reach Saturn on this level Jim. Everyone talks about death and experiences it as pain, I experience it as life. They want to save the environment and the world and preserve their mortal bodies, I see the search and act of immortality as the only sin (and mostly a falsehood).

It's not that I don't care about my earth but I understand that we as a race are small in the grand scheme of things. I'm intuitive or emotional or logical or physical. However I've noticed higher physicality lately.

From outside looking in are Capricorn Mars people particularly hard to pin down up front? Are there any times where you have met a Mars in Capricorn and misread their initial responses/impression?

I was thinking about the word "Autonomy" and how if it was physically applied to a person it might come off as being veiled.. You have always hinted at them{Capricorn Mars} being hidden but even you haven't come up with the exact why. I think it's just a sense of Autonomy that we maintain in our bones, you take the shrugs and shaded nature as being a defensive mechanism: it just makes sense that this is exactly what we are protecting..

This aside:
I think the Quabba Saturn teaches is that death is the ultimate Autonomy.. or at least this is a big part of it, it teaches the truth in the falsity or instability in the worlds "material safety".

Soft Alpaca wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:32 pm From outside looking in are Capricorn Mars people particularly hard to pin down up front? Are there any times where you have met a Mars in Capricorn and misread their initial responses/impression?

With what I know now, they aren't hard to pin down from their chart; but, in simply meeting them, they are some of the most secretive (they probably say "private") people I know. In the Gauqueline character trait catalogue, the traits secretive and insincere (meaning: outside observers called them this) are statistically common for Mars in Capricorn.

You have always hinted at them{Capricorn Mars} being hidden but even you haven't come up with the exact why.

I'm not big on the question "why" - I'm much more interested in what's so - but I think you mean the motive. With Capricorn luminaries, it is easy to trace to the broad cluster of safety - security - maybe autonomy - basically, the idea that they have to control conditions and ensure their survival against presumed hostile conditions. (Various themes overlap and interweave, so I don't necessarily mean to prioritize one form of it above the others.) That would seem to be the motive for the inscrutability.

Yes Jim that's what I was getting at.

The longer it goes, the more I think of Mars in Capricorn as animal. It's sublime expression is Pan. I think you will appreciate my saying that the essence of Mars in Capricorn is smelling a goat's crotch. It's very primal, musky, rutting. Free in a sense.

Goats goods.. haha . Primal is definitely along the right lingo.

Please don't judge me but; Now that you said musty people often rave about my smell (it's gross but ok). I often smell like a light work out (kitchen work, being on stage, actually working out) and people tend to tell me they like the smell (and I mean strangers walking by in the halls). I have even had heterosexual males hang around me and even get cuddley because I smell like their dads...

Something about pheromones..

Either way there is something ancient, masculine, primal, raw and invigorating about Capricorn and while my angular Uranus and Eris I think really alter my Sun and Jupiter (literally being opposite signs rulers!) Mars here doesn't have any true opposition. I think Eris made this click (and I can totally see how Uranus energy over powering my sun/leo energy and Eris+pluto disrupting my moon/sagittarius energy both flowing into Capricorns Autonomy). I'm an outgoing introvert.

Also I in general like word play like.

"Capricorn's Crotch"... cantankerously corroded...

Jim it's very easy to see Eris playing into my capricorn energy (why is this?).
For example I'm the kind of guy who would go to jail for something like arson. . I like driving, fast- wild. Chaos is exhausting (dare I day hot:dangerous)but like fire it's exhilarating (like sex)..