Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:18 am**

At some point in the early 19060s (I apparently don't have that issue of AAM in my collection), Bradley wrote a column on progressing the Arisolar (an effective but, frankly, third rank solar ingress) by the PSSR rate. It made such an impact that some Siderealists began to think that the Capsolar was progressed by the SNQ rate and the Arisolar by the PSSR rate (redubbed PSSI). It even made its way into the Fagan-Firebrace Primer
that way.

I don't think that's what he meant. After all, he had already given a couple of examples of the Capsolar progressed by the PSSI.

My other problem with this is that I haven't ever been able to confirm the finding. Part of this may be that I haven't worked nearly as hard at it as at the testing of other methods. But I've done spot testing of both the Capsolar and Arisolar by this rate, and haven't been impressed (whereas the CapQ so easily, overwhelmingly impresses).

I haven't worked so hard at it because I have no tool that calculates PSSRs as easily as I can calculate the known-remarkable SNQ. Solar Fire doesn't do it. I have a spr3eadsheet I created which would work if I devoted 15-20 minutes to each chart for multiple ingresses for the 300+ events in the core test set. It has been exhausting even to think of doing this since I have the expectation I would not get a positive, useful result and feel I have better things to spend my time on.

I understand there is a program called Janus that would simplify this, but I have no interest to work out of multiple programs with a significant duplication of effort etc. etc.

What I have done, since I have an easy way to approximate PSSR calculations (not good enough for the angles) is that I've checked new events for PSSI Moon progressions or transits to PSSI Moon of the Capsolar. Once or twice I've seen a hit, but normally there is nothing. This does not give confidence, since the CapQ Moon is such a powerful factor.

So it might be my fault, or maybe there is nothing there. In any case, as I came across the reprint of Bradley's original article, I thought I should highlight exactly what he said, and mostly leave myself out of the equation. Here follows a summary.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:25 am**

Garth Allen wrote:So much interest has been generated by both the sidereal mundane technique and the progression of the sidereal solar return that most questions and pleas for enlightenment have focused o these two subjects. In the many years since publication of the preliminary report on the ingresses, new findings have been pellmelling to the point where, indeed, a whole book on the system is called for. And, since hints have been printed that Fagan's "PSSR" calculations can be simplified without a loss of accuracy, students who have been bleeding over the intricacies of the method have been crying out for instructions in the easier way,

To kill two birds with one stone, yours truly feels it would be worth-while to "go technical" once in a while for the benefit of the hundreds of astrology's devotees who revel in a wild evening with pen, scratchpad and ephemeris.

He gave some remarks on mathematical technicalities in astrology overall, concluding that with,

Explanations seem to have been taboo in most astrological literature the past quarter century. You were to believe rather than understand what you were doing... So do not think that the sidereal technique is necessarily more complicated just because your teachers are determined that you know what you're doing from the outset...

He next explains what a PSSR is. Despite the gentle harangue just quoted, I'm not including that - it's s subject for a different place, and most readers here know what it is anyway. The simple summary is that a year has about 365.25 days, not just 365, so (in addition to day-for-a-year) there is another rate that includes that extra quarter day and spreads about a day and a quarter (30:09) on average across the year, with the result that the angles progress through the whole circle and an additional 92 degrees (approximately). Another way to say it is that the chart progresses about 5 minutes per day instead of about 4 minutes per day. Additionally, this increases proportionate to the (variable) increase of transiting Sun's right ascension through the year ("apparent solar rate") instead o the smooth flow of linear time as we normally know it ("mean solar rate"). This is the PSSR/PSSI rate.

Most of the article deals with getting people to understand what this is and to make it easier (using common logarithms). The article ends, for example, with a list of the date, time, Greenwich sidereal time, Sun's RA, sidereal year length logarithm, and SVP of every Arisolar from 1915 to 1975.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:52 am**

Continuing with his other topic..,.

The doubly valuable purpose of this article, as we said, is to kill two birds with one stone, so we thought it smart to use the Sun's sidereal ingresses for giving examples of this calculation, because solar ingresses are, after all, "returns" themselves in every sense of the word. The regal table of the Arisolar elements from 1915 to 1975, which appears herewith provides the now hundreds of students of the sidereal technique with all the information essential for a full-scale investigation into the merits of a great discovery, to wit, that the sidereal Aries ingress progresses at the PSSR rate.

The efficacy of the "PSSI" (I for ingress, this time) procedure was discovered when we found that most of the loopholes in the performance record of the Capsolar quotidian could be filled up convincingly by the equivalent Arisolar map moving at the PSSR rate. A flash fire which took twenty-four lives in a downtown Manhattan loft building was our first revolutionary experience with the new device. This led quickly to a spot-check of PSSI factors for other New York fires of the past, and the score in favor of the Arisolar soared. Then mathematician Richard Murakami, noted for his competence in rectification, took time out to cast the PSSI for his favorite tragedy, the collision of the lines Andrea Doria and Stockholm. One tryout kept leading to another as our excitement rose. Then, down in Cuba, Fidel Castro officially declared the minute of the commencement of civil war, which stroke of midnight synchronized with Ingress Mars only 0°08' from Havana's Ascendant - that settled it; we were all on our way to another grand adventure in star-spangled discovery! Startling demonstrations of the validity of the PSSI are now routine.

Two "impossible" collisions, one in the air and the other on the sea, made tragic headlines during the summer of 1956, so we thought using these disasters to show how to handle the calculations of the PSSI and PSSR would serve a twin purpose, with double impact on your curiosity. They sky's patterns at the '56 Arisolar moment was ominous for transportation, what with a great, tight cosmic cross of Mars in 5°19' Capricorn, Uranus 4°07' Cancer, Neptune 5°03' Libra and Mercury 8°47' Aries. It is only logical that if the PSSI theory is valid, this adverse configuration should play a dynamic role in the year's leading disasters, particularly those involving travel conveyances.

He then gave the calculation steps of the PSSI for these two events. I give whatever is necessary for us to check the events with modern tools.

Example 1. One of the worst accidents in commercial aviation history occurred June 30, 1956, 19:32 UT, 111W49, 36N00 (geocentric), when two airliners collided in midair over the Grand Canyon, killing all 128 aboard.

This was analyzed in detail here: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=811&p=4639 FWIW, I didn't feel the need of the PSSI Arisolar because, when the CapQ didn't show anything, the CanQ put Mars 1°17' from Midheaven. The PSSI Arisolar he displayed had Ascendant 7°22' Capricorn, not only broadly bringing in the Arisolar planets listed above, but exactly hitting transiting Uranus at 7°00' Cancer. (Notice that all of the orbs were wider than the CanQ angle to Mars. PSSI angles to Arisolar planets were Mars 2°03'. Uranus 3°15', Neptune 2°19', and Mercury 1°25'.)

Example 2: The Andrea Doria-Stockholm collision at 69W53, 40N19 (geocentric), July 26, 1956, 3:22 UT, occurred almost a month later around three thousand miles farther east.

This is studied in full here: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=807&p=4628 Though not as tight as the Grand Canyon event, I was satisfied (in the face of nothing in the CapQ) that the CanQ brought Mercury and Saturn together to angles. The PSSI Arisolar had tighter contacts. Its MC was 6°31' Capricorn, again tapping into the general range of the severe aspects in the Arisolar. It gives MC conjunct ingress Mars (1°32'), opposite ingress Uranus (2°44'), square ingress Neptune (1°48'), and square ingress Mercury (1°56'). There was also a transiting Sun-Uranus conjunction within 2° of Arisolar PSSI IC.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:31 am**

End of reproducing the article. The rest is discussion.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:50 am**

I want to comment on a few of these points, partly to compare some things we now know that Bradley didn't to some things he may have known that we don't.

...we found that most of the loopholes in the performance record of the Capsolar quotidian could be filled up convincingly by the equivalent Arisolar map moving at the PSSR rate.

We have been filling that exact gap with the Cansolar quotidian. Much of what follows is from Chapters 34 and Appendix C of Sidereal Mundane Astrology.

Cansolar Quotidians, from various ways of measuring their efficacy, end up somewhere around 70-80% as potent as the corresponding Capsolar method. However, their great value is in the exact "loophole" situations Bradley just mentioned. (Remember, he thought only the Capsolar could be progressed by the quotidian rate, so he didn't look at the CanQ as far as we know. He did, however, value transits to Cansolar angles.)

Using the CanQ and Cansolar to complete the CapQ and Capsolar transits, we get 96% "right" charts for my standard mundane event catalogue.

It gets even more interesting when we add the Arisolar and Libsolar results, though. Taken alone - all events for all ingresses, across the whole circle of the year - only the CapQ hits the "7 right out of 8" threshold (about 87-88% or better). The others fall short. They do not improve in different quarters (e.g., not better in their own quarter than the other three). Same results with transits to ingress angles. Also the same when we combined quotidians and transits to the ingress.

However, when we only look at the times when the CapQ and transit to Capsolar fail to show anything (Bradley's "loopholes"), all three of the others - Arisolar, Cansolar, and Libsolar - have accurate hits 7 times out of 8 or more often. (Actually, the Libsolar falls short, but a difference of one event would take it over the top. There were very few examples, and a random shift of one event can make a big difference in the scores.)

My conclusion thus far is that we already have the "loopholes" covered. This doesn't speak to whether the Arisolar PSSI also fills them, of course.

This led quickly to a spot-check of PSSI factors for other New York fires of the past, and the score in favor of the Arisolar soared.

Would someone like to check the Arisolar PSSI for the 42 major fires in my collection? (Just look at Chapter 16 of the current edition of Sidereal Mundane Astrology.) I'm sure I don't have the energy or endurance.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:09 pm**

Then, down in Cuba, Fidel Castro officially declared the minute of the commencement of civil war, which stroke of midnight synchronized with Ingress Mars only 0°08' from Havana's Ascendant

I'm not sure which date he means. It seems it could be either July 26, 1953 when the Castro brothers led 69 fighters in attacks in Santiago and Bayamo. I think he means something later, because it sounds like he's talking about something in contemporary news later than 1957 (but all the other good dates are before 1957 also).
'
Let's test the above date using the "estimate" tool for PSSI. Havana's 1953 Arisolar had Pluto about 1° Descendant. Progressing it at the mean PSSI rate (mean Sun) gives an MC of 20° Pisces which is far from the late Aries ingress Mars. This wasn't the date he meant.

Another late date - hardly the start of the war, but the start of a major last offensive - was August 21, 1958. The 1958 Arisolar was quite deadly, with Saturn setting closely. Progressing it to August 21 by the mean rate does give Ascendant 25° Capricorn with ingress Mars at 27° Capricorn, so this probably the event he meant (I'd have to calculate it more precisely to confirm).

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:15 pm**

So, what to the other charts look like for August 21, 1958, 0:00, Havana, Cuba?

Notice that the CanQ does indeed step in to close the gap. The Libsolar (Q & transits) also does quite well, though the AriQ is quite poor.

Year: Capsolar (Dormant.) Moon-Venus.

Year/Quarter: Cansolar
Neptune sq. MC 0°15'
Moon more widely foreground
Moon-Neptune 1°39'
Moon-Mars sq. 2°56'

Bridge

Month: Caplunar
(Notice Moon-Jupiter for most historic events of people seizing liberty & rights.)
Mars on WP 1°08'
Neptune on Asc 2°14'
Moon, Sun, Jupiter more widely foreground
-- Sun-Mars sq. 0°09in mundo
-- Mars-Neptune op. 3°09'
Moon-Jupiter sq. 0°04'

Week: Liblunar
Venus on EP 0°08'
Uranus on Asc 1°18'
Mars & Neptune more widely foreground
-- Venus-Neptune sq. 1°45'
Moon-Jupiter conj. 2°40'

Day: Capsolar Transits
t Sun op. s MC (1°34')

Day: Cansolar Quotidian & Transits
p Moon sq. s Neptune 0°20', t Neptune 0°42'
p Asc op. s Saturn 0°19', t Saturn 0°46'
--------------------------------------------------
t Neptune sq. s MC 0°37'
t Uranus sq. s Asc 0°28'

Day: Arisolar Quotidian & Transits
p EP conj. s Jupiter 1°47', t Jupiter 1°38'

Day: Libsolar Quotidian & Transits
p Asc conj. t Saturn 0°24'
---------------------------------------
t Uranus op. s Asc 1°33'
t Sun sq. s MC 1°05'

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:07 pm**

Jim asked:

Would someone like to check the Arisolar PSSI for the 42 major fires in my collection? (Just look at Chapter 16 of the current edition of Sidereal Mundane Astrology.) I'm sure I don't have the energy or endurance.

Jim, since you have verified the PSSR rate is correct in Janus, I will try and get around to looking at these 42 fires with the Arisolar PSSR with Janus. Thanks for the post from AAM.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:12 pm**

Thanks, Steve. Would it help if I reposted the data, or you got it?

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:52 am**

I think I got your latest version of SMA filed in my computer. If for some reason I can't access your latest SMA book, I will get back to you.

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:37 pm**

Jim, Just went into Janus to calculate PSSR's for Arisolars for the fires, but can't figure out how to calculate the Cardinal Ingresses like we do in SF. I will give Janus tech support a call tomorrow.

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:42 pm**

Thanks.

Do you perhaps have to calculate them separately in SF and then just type in the chart data?

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:59 pm**

I don't know for sure Jim. I have worked with Janus very little. I bought Janus mainly for Matthew (RIP) who wanted to do a lot of work with PSSR. He told me Janus had all the quotidians miss labeled and called them to correct, and by what I can tell they have corrected. I do remember Matthew fell in love with Janus 'Graphic Ephemeris' which i don't know how to read. I fell in love with Janus Paran functions which allowed me precise work relocating me to favorable gambling locations. But when I hooked into your forum, you showed me how to do the same Paran functions with SF, and ever since I very rarely use Janus. Matthew helped me so much with Sidereal Astrology, I asked him the best way for me to repay him, and he said Janus had some functions he wanted to check out, and I told Matthew---done deal. I will let you know what I find out with Janus tech team about Sidereal Solar Ingresses.

Posted: **Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:03 pm**

Jim,
I could not get in touch with tech team at Janus to see if Janus computes Sidereal Solar Ingresses, so I took your suggestion and computed the time for the Aries Ingress with Solar Fire and then computed the Aries Sidereal Ingress in Janus in order to compute PSSR’s for Aries Ingress charts. I have so far got absolutely no PSSR Ari Q hits including transits with your first 5 Fire events in Chapter 16 of your book Sidereal Mundane Astrology. But when I got to the 6th example for the Great London Fire of 1666, the PSSR was astounding!

PSSR Saturn partile cnj PSSR MC
t. Neptune partile cnj PSSR MC
t. Neptune partile cnj PSSR Saturn
t. Mars 2,09 cnj PSSR Dsc
t. Moon partile 180 Aries Sun
t. Moon partile 90 PSSR Saturn
t. Moon partile 90 t. Neptune

I don’t quite know what to conclude from my sampling of your Fire events, so far. I noted the London Fire Disaster was somewhat symbolized in the London Aries Chart itself. Jim, I have had a long tiring day—so check my work for the PSSR with the 1666 London Fire.

Posted: **Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:27 pm**

First, let's calculate that PSSI Arisolar. The Great London Fire began September 2, 1666 (NS), about 0:15 AM, London, England. Sun RA 161°12'

Prior Arisolar: April 9, 1666, 18:12:01 LMT, London.
ST 7:24:47, Sun RA 18°32'

Next Arisolar ST 13:42:45. Subtract the two STs to get 6:17:58. Add 24h to get 30:17:58. Divide by 24:00:03 (109,078 sec / 86,403 sec) gives SSRY = 1.262433017372082

Subtract Arisolar RAAS from transiting RAAS = 161°12' - 18°32' = 142°40'. Multiply this by the SSRY to get 180.107110478417° or 12:00:26.

This is the ST increase but, using SF, it's easier to get the clock time, so we subtract 9.86 sec/hr to get a clock time increase of 11:58:27. Add this to the date and time of the Arisolar to get the PSSI date/time of April 10, 1666, 6:10:28 LMT, London.

Here is how you summarized it. It looks like you they're pretty cose:

SteveS wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:03 pm PSSR Saturn partile cnj PSSR MC
t. Neptune partile cnj PSSR MC
t. Neptune partile cnj PSSR Saturn
t. Mars 2,09 cnj PSSR Dsc
t. Moon partile 180 Aries Sun
t. Moon partile 90 PSSR Saturn
t. Moon partile 90 t. Neptune

I get MC 29°36' Sagittarius, Ascendant 25°26' Aries, which gives the following:

p MC conj. s Saturn 0°02', t Neptune 0°02'; sq. s Sun 0°24', t Moon 0°38'
-- Sun-Saturn sq. 0°02'
-- t Neptune conj. s Saturn 0°28', sq. s Sun 0°26'
- - t Moon sq. t Neptune 0°28', s Saturn 0°12', s Sun 0°14'
p Asc op. t Mars 1°56'

Going by the Mars orb, it looks like we got Ascendant 0°13' different.

This is quite impressive!

Posted: **Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:43 pm**

SteveS wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:03 pm I don’t quite know what to conclude from my sampling of your Fire events, so far. I noted the London Fire Disaster was somewhat symbolized in the London Aries Chart itself. Jim, I have had a long tiring day—so check my work for the PSSR with the 1666 London Fire.

This is the tough question, and I think the answer is that we have to keep going to know the answer.

This one example with the London fire is enormously encouraging. It's stupendous. OTOH, one result in six is quite poor and, were we to stop now, we'd have to consider it (at worst) an unsubstantiated system and (at best) a system capable of producing stunning results occassionally but not really worth the work (even if it were fast) to check it every time. (For example, I don't check the AriQ and LibQ routinely because they aren't worth it, even though it only takes a few seconds.)

It is a common statistical technique to, for example, through out one's single best and single worst results so that no one extreme result biases the outcome. If we did that here, we'd not have any results. But going on may produce more (and more consistent).

No rush, of course. But this will be valuable to know.

As an aside, Bradley especially recommended this for those times when the CapQ didn't come through (when I've usually found the CanQ does). [He used it at other times, though.] That wouldn't apply here, since the London CapQ had transiting Mars partile conjunct an angle. So the "when the CapQ doesn't work" idea is not what is filtering this.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:48 am**

Jim wrote:

No rush, of course. But this will be valuable to know.

Yes, since I have very little experience with the PSSR, I hope to learn something too, and anything you consider 'valuable to know', I am interested. I know Fagan & Bradley recognized the PSSR. I asked Matthew about them and he said he had little experience with them, if memory is serving me. I have looked at a few more Fire examples in Chapter 16 SMA and there were no hits for the PSSR AriQ. I have out of town company visiting for the next few days but I have a tag on my monitor to finish all of your examples in Chapter 16. BTW, I now know how to calculate Sidereal Ingresses in Janus which helps for flip flopping back and forth from SF to Janus. If you ever have time to download the the free 30 day trial and/or decide it would help speed-up your research work with the PSSR--let me know. In the meantime if you ever need me to do batches of PSSR's to help your work, I will be glad to calculate with Janus.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:56 am**

Thanks on all counts. - I really really really don't want to flip-flop between programs if possible, but it if were to turn out that the PSSI is genuinely necessary for this work, I'll have to change my mind.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:05 am**

I understand Jim--if you do change your mind let me know.

Posted: **Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:46 pm**

Jim, an AriQ Fire hit but actually not needed over all the Mars hits in your SMA book example for this fire.
Jim wrote:

OUR LADY OF THE ANGELS SCHOOL FIRE 1958 Dec 1, 2:10 PM, Chicago, IL
The event quickly flared into a national(and even international) news story.

Par -excellent symbolism for this ‘national/international’ sad ‘news story:
PSSR Chart for 1958 Arisolar:

https://imgur.com/a/wKYuWkT

t. Mercury 1,19 Sag
t. Saturn 1,45 Sag
AriQ Saturn 1,27 Sag
AriQ MC 29,54 Scorpio

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:28 pm**

Jim, sorry about the PSSR’S delay here with this thread. Mercury stationed on my Zenith square my natal Jupiter a couple of weeks ago sidetracked me into some unexpected business which will probably/hopefully go on to the end of the year. I have looked at a few more of your examples in your ‘Fires’ chapter in your book SMA, isolating only the PSSR’s with the Arisolar Ingresses and found another decent example for a PSSR:

The L’ INNOVATION DEPARTMENT STORE FIRE, 1967 May 22 , 1:30 PM CET, Brussels, Belgium:

PSSR Moon 26,41 Tau exact 90 PSSR Uranus
t. Neptune partile cnj PSSR MC (for the hysterics with this tragic fire)
Also note in Brussels 1967 Arisolar, Arisolar Mars partile 180 Sun. And, as you noted in SMA Arisolar Saturn 1,59 cnj Arisolar IC.

This does add some fairly good supporting symbolism for this fire, but not as good as the symbolism with your noted SMA work on this fire, imo.
So far, by looking at about 20 examples, I have noted 2 Arisolar’s projecting good symbolism with the PSSR, the 1666 London Fire and this Brussels 1967 Fire, both these Arisolar’s showing Arisolar Saturn on IC.

Sorry for the delay in completing this project but been very busy writing a proposed Franchise Manual for a Concept Community Theater, with a deadline and much travel.

Again, if you ever desire to do any extensive work with the PSSR’s with your great SMA work, I am sure I can secure at a discount purchased by me the Janus Program for your own individual research for possible forum learning, but so far, I think your Fire examples are showing better symbolism than the Arisolar PSSR’s. Only you are the best Judge for this when I slowly finish all the examples. Thanks.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:53 pm**

I wrote a very long answer to this, cross referencing several things - then, when I went to save it, I was told that the post I was answering didn't exist any longer and my answer was dumped. (I'd cross referenced several SMA data bases to give comparative data and things you might want to compare going forward, and answered several small things in your post.)

Since it had a different title, I suspect you decided you'd put it in the wrong thread, reposted here, then deleted the other one. Sorry, I don't have time to research and write the answer again. (There went my e tire lunch period

)

One thing important to repeat: In the Arisolar, don't give any emphasis to the Sun-Mars opposition. It doesn't matter how exact or fitting it is. Early on, statistics confirmed that, though Moon aspects are valid no matter where in the ingress they fall, Sun aspects have no similar special value. They're the same as other planets, meaning, their aspects effectively don't exist if they aren't angular. The best way to think of it is that Sun and Mars don't even exist in that Arisolar.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:23 pm**

Sun aspects have no similar special value.

For all cardinal solar ingresses?

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:33 pm**

Since it had a different title, I suspect you decided you'd put it in the wrong thread, reposted here, then deleted the other one. Sorry, I don't have time to research and write the answer again. (There went my e tire lunch period )

Yes, posted it in wrong thread, sorry I spoiled your lunch. Tell me your favorite delivery food service with your address and I will buy you lunch.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:45 pm**

Not to worry. I had lunch, I just lost 45 minutes work that I was doing during lunch. I wrote you a very nice answer, too - long and packed with data.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:06 pm**

long and packed with data.

Sorry, I missed this.

What I really need to further my studies is all the AA articles by the early Siderealist's, asking you further questions. I am hoping Ken B gets these articles in book form.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:08 pm**

Ken's only doing the Fagan material, right? That's what he has the rights to. That wouldn't include the voluminous Bradley material or the several articles by Firebrace, Gleadow, Murakami...

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:42 pm**

I think you are right, only Fagan stuff. We/I need it all. Will PM Ken to see about me getting the rest of the material giving you copyrights if that is ok with you. Who is Murakami

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:50 pm**

SteveS wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:42 pm I think you are right, only Fagan stuff. We/I need it all. Will PM Ken to see about me getting the rest of the material giving you copyrights if that is ok with you. Who is Murakami

Richard Murakami was a Siderealist with a gift for data research and an instinct for mundane prediction in the '50s and '60s. He wrote the American Astrology U.S. forecast for a while. Fagan and Bradley both cite him from time to time. He was completely sold on the importance of the U.S. president's administration chart (inauguration).

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:16 pm**

He was completely sold on the importance of the U.S. president's administration chart (inauguration).

Are you "completely" sold on it ?

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:22 pm**

I think it has value. I have an old thread around here somewhere showing that it's responsive to transits for major events. But, like national charts, it's nothing like the ingresses!

Murakami especially used it for predicting presidential elections, and he was never wrong. That makes sense because it has to do with the viability of the existing administration.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:27 pm**

Murakami especially used it for predicting presidential elections, and he was never wrong. That makes sense because it has to do with the viability of the existing administration.

Were both real busy now, but let's try to look into this matter latter.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:22 pm**

Here's the thread on administration charts used as "natals" for events during the term of the administration:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=359

Posted: **Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:01 pm**

Steve, could you please run the PSSI of the Capsolar (not Arisolar) for this event:

Earthquake August 5, 2018, 11:46:37 UT, 8S17'14'', 116E27'06''

My "mean rate" estimate shows an exactly angular Pluto - I'd like to know if that's actual. (The quake, which was qute severe and deadly, showed very poorly, even though it's somewhat milder, no-casualty predecessor quake showed quite dramatically. I'm curious about the PSSI Capsolar.)

Also the PSSI Cansolar, please? My estimate chart shows the transiting Mars-Uranus square on the angles (but transiting Venus conjunct PSSI Moon).

The PSSI Arisolar is potentially interesting as well. It looks like it might have ingress Mars square Ascendant.

Thanks in advance.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 am**

1: Jim asked:

Steve, could you please run the PSSI of the Capsolar (not Arisolar) for this event: Earthquake August 5, 2018, 11:46:37 UT, 8S17'14'', 116E27'06''

Jim, Janus calculates the Capsolar PSSI (Mean Rate) Asc 24,02 Sag for the Earthquake.

2: Jim asked:

Also the PSSI Cansolar, please? My estimate chart shows the transiting Mars-Uranus square on the angles (but transiting Venus conjunct PSSI Moon).

Yes! Janus CanPSSI MC (Mean) 5,27 Cap. CanPSSI Asc 8,00 Ari. CanPSSI Moon 3,16 Virgo. Impressive for the t. Mars-Uranus square on the ASC-MC!

3: Jim wrote:

The PSSI Arisolar is potentially interesting as well. It looks like it might have ingress Mars square Ascendant.

Yes! AriPSSI Asc 20,11 Virgo. *Also AriPSSI Moon 21,43 Pi partile 90 Ingress Mars. Solid hits here Jim.

When you need to check PSSI’s for future/past events, ask anytime, and as long as I am not traveling will be glad to calculate with Janus.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:34 am**

Thanks much, Steve!

Yes, these three are quite an interesting set. So far, we've had a hard time finding sufficient positive examples of the PSSI - so much so that strikingly good examples look random, "luck of the draw." I'm also aware that using examples where nothing showed well by other methods increases the odds of finding something (randomly, by chance) when you try another technique. (To explain: If the angles don't hit a "right planet" by one technique, putting them somewhere else is more likely to hit that right planet.)

But in this case it isn't just one chart but three different PSSI charts for the same event. That's a sobering example.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:49 am**

Steve wrote:

SteveS wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 am Yes! Janus CanPSSI MC (Mean) 5,27 Cap. CanPSSI Asc 8,00 Ari. CanPSSI Moon 3,16 Virgo. Impressive for the t. Mars-Uranus square on the ASC-MC!

Steve, does "(Mean)" mean that this is calculated by mean solar rate? I thought Janus calculated with apparent solar rate as Fagan taught - isn't that the whole point? Or does it allow you to choose?

If these are indeed mean solar rate, then they are even more interesting because the hits are so clean even though they are a different chart theory than Fagan and Bradley used. If possible (and if these were indeed for mean solar rate), could you redo these for apparent solar rate for comparison?

Thanks.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:45 am**

Jim, Janus offers 3 options for the "Progressed MC Method" for progressing Solar Returns/Ingresses.

1: SSQ
2: PSSR True
3: PSSR Mean

Progressing the Capsolar Asc for the Earthquake Event, Janus calculates for:

PSSR True: 23,05 Sag
SSQ 6,05 Scorpio

What does this tell you Jim? Remember Matthew said Janus had some of these progressed rates miss-labeled, but I don't have the mathematical knowledge to determine what Janus is actually doing with these different p. rates.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:51 am**

SteveS wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:45 am Progressing the Capsolar Asc for the Earthquake Event, Janus calculates for:

PSSR True: 23,05 Sag
SSQ 6,05 Scorpio

What does this tell you Jim? Remember Matthew said Janus had some of these progressed rates miss-labeled, but I don't have the mathematical knowledge to determine what Janus is actually doing with these different p. rates.

Well, at least one mislabelling is the use of "SSQ" which is no term Fagan ever used and likely means SQ or Neo-SQ.

As for the two PSSR optons, the "true" rate is the one Fagan taught. I've raised questions as to whether this was a correct move - should it be a mean rate instead? (That would solve enormous problems and make tne PSSR more easily trackable on Solar Fire, but we can't decide which technique is better based on which is more convenient for us

) In this case, the "true" Ascendant varies by over a degree from the "mean," which puts it still in orb of Pluto for the quake, but on the outer edge of its 2° orb.

If you could give the True rate angles for the other two ingreses, we can easily compare, for this example, which is better.

Also (I hate to suggest this double work) for the PSSI study you've been doing in this thread, eventually all events should be done twice, once for mean rate and one for true rate. The difference can be several degrees.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:55 am**

If you could give the True rate angles for the other two ingreses, we can easily compare, for this example, which is better.

Will get back with you on this later this afternoon---got to make a couple of imp business calls before they get away for lunch.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:42 am**

Jim wrote:

If you could give the True rate angles for the other two ingresses, we can easily compare, for this example, which is better.

CanPSSR (True): MC 5,23 Cap, ASC 7,23 Ari
AriPSSI (True): MC 18,45 Gem, ASC 22,17 Vir
Maybe when you have time and/or feel a need, give me a test sampling of events from your SMA work where the Q charts show no hits, and I will run the PSSR’s to check if they are picking-up the daily hits with statistical satisfaction?

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:00 pm**

SMA catalogue of events with dormant CapQ (nothing to show, good / bad / indifferent):

Nevada del Ruiz Volcano
Sylmar earthquake Earthquake
Nepal Earthquake Earthquake
Mitsubishi Hojyo Mine disaster
Okeechobee Hurricane Hurricane
Hurricane Andrew Hurricane
Typhoon Haiyan Hurricane
Hurricane Maria Hurricane
Niteroi Circus Fire Fire
Apollo 1 fire Fire
Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire
Durunkah fire Fire
Friendship Theater Fire Fire
Boston Marathon explosion Bomb
Chualar Bus Crash Vehicular
USS Thresher sank Vehicular
Trigana Flight 257 Vehicular
EgyptAir Flight 804 Vehicular
Hodges meteorite Impact
Bush v. Gore Pres crisis
RFK murder WASHINGTON Murder
Prince William birth Royals
USA for VJ Day War & Peace
Hiroshima (Washington) War & Peace
San Ysidro McDonald's Mass Murder
Red Lake shpotings Mass Murder
Charleston AME Mass Murder
Mandalay Bay Mass Murder
Jallianwala Bagh Massacre Massacre
Ghouta Sarin attack Massacre
SCOTUS Gay Marriage Uprising &c.
Apollo 8 - 1st Moon orbit Space
1873 Panic - Vienna Financial Panic
1931 Berlin Bank Run Financial Panic
1987 stock market crash - NY Financial Panic
1987 stock market crash - DC Financial Panic
2008 subprime mortgage crisis - DC Financial Panic

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:05 pm**

Of these, there are charts where there SQ of other solar ingresses showed well. Here is a list of all dormant CapQ events with the corresponding Q scores from the CanQ, AriQ, and LibQ. - The only event where the CapQ was dormant and at least one of the other three didn't provide +1 or better is the San Ysidro McDonald's shooting

Code: Select all

CapQ	AriQ	CanQ	LibQ
D	2	-2	2
D	1	2	2
D	D	2	D
D	1	1	1
D	2	2	2
D	2	2	1
D	2	2	0
D	3	2	0
D	0	1	2
D	2	-2	2
D	0	2	1
D	2	2	D
D	2	D	D
D	2	2	3
D	-2	2	1
D	1	2	-2
D	2	1	1
D	D	2	D
D	1	1	D
D	1	1	1
D	D	2	0
D	D	2	0
D	2	0	2
D	3	D	D
D	-2	0	-2
D	2	1	1
D	2	0	3
D	2	1	0
D	2	2	1
D	0	2	1
D	2	-2	D
D	-2	D	2
D	1	2	2
D	2	2	0
D	2	-2	1
D	2	-1	2
D	2	1	2

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:42 pm**

Got it! Give me some time and will run these PSSR's down. Have you ever formulated any type of solid opinion about the PSSR's with all the work you have done in your life with Sidereal Astrology? If you have already stated this opinion--I have forgotten.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:15 pm**

SteveS wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:42 pm Got it! Give me some time and will run these PSSR's down. Have you ever formulated any type of solid opinion about the PSSR's with all the work you have done in your life with Sidereal Astrology? If you have already stated this opinion--I have forgotten.

Not a clear one. It was awkward enough to calculate in the best of times that I'd use it sparingly an mostly took my elders' word about it.

When I compared four different quotidians for a few months, day by day, I had poor results overall, but the PSSR did work out better than the others. The SNQ1 and SQ rarely produced solid hit for describing a day, but the SNQ2 and PSSR did better.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:20 pm**

For the three PSSIs for the quake, notice that the angular hits were closer - and exceptionally close at that! - for all the Mean Rate examples, and less so for the Apparent Rate examples.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:32 pm**

Jim wrote:

For the three PSSIs for the quake, notice that the angular hits were closer - and exceptionally close at that! - for all the Mean Rate examples, and less so for the Apparent Rate examples.

Indeed, which prompted my question to you about the PSSR's. By your Sidereal Astrology experience: Have you always favored the Mean rate over Apparent rate?

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:11 pm**

SteveS wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:32 pm Jim wrote:
For the three PSSIs for the quake, notice that the angular hits were closer - and exceptionally close at that! - for all the Mean Rate examples, and less so for the Apparent Rate examples.
Indeed, which prompted my question to you about the PSSR's. By your Sidereal Astrology experience: Have you always favored the Mean rate over Apparent rate?

Quite the contrary: The PSSR has always been defined as an Apparent Sun technique, with Mean Rate viewed (by Fagan, Firebrace, Bradley) as sloppy work. In this way, the PSSR is different from the SNQ and SQ.

So we have to check Apparent as we go (or, on the fires, do a second pass later).

Only recently, with my "user rate" way of estimating PSSRs with Solar Fire, have I seen any Mean Rate PSSRs and a few caused me to state that we need to reopen the question of which rate works better (if at all). For those who may have forgotten, a User Progression rate of 0.003430114 will create a mean-rate PSSR accurate for the average year. (It might be "close enough for gov'ment work.") But that's useless (except as a crude hint) if the Apparent Rate should be used.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:10 pm**

Just saw your above post which is damn interesting but somewhat confusing taking the Mean rate as best rate over Apparent. 10 Minutes ago I did some work (my first after earthquake work) on Invasion of Pearl Harbor--best time of hour I can find for dropping of bombs was 12:48 EST DC time, Dec 7th, 1941.

DC 's 1941 Arisolar:
Mundo Saturn 00,27 cnj IC

DC's Dec 7th 12:48 PM ARIPSSI (Mean):
DSC 00,08 Tau
UR 00,26 Tau
t. Saturn 29,34 Aries

CANPSSI for same time (Mean):
IC 5,42 Vir
t. Nep 5,46 Vir
Zenith 23,35 Pi
t. Mars 21,36 Pi

Are we to label all PSSR Solar Ingress Progressions as Bradley's PSSI, or only the ARIPSSI?

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:51 pm**

SteveS wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:10 pm Just saw your above post which is damn interesting but somewhat confusing taking the Mean rate as best rate over Apparent.

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. The historic rate has always been Apparent. That's been the single biggest barrier to Solar Fire doing PSSRs. But when I found an easy way to approximate it (give or take 10° or so

) I started seeing some remarkable hits for the Mean rate, which raised the question of whether we'd been wrong all along and the mean rate was better. (I'm not saying it is. I'm saying we have to ask the question IMHO.)

10 Minutes ago I did some work (my first after earthquake work) on Invasion of Pearl Harbor--best time of hour I can find for dropping of bombs was 12:48 EST DC time, Dec 7th, 1941.

I think you're an hour off. The attack began at 7:48 AM HST (which is 1:18 PM EST) at Pearl Harbor Naval Station, 21N21, 157W56.

DC 's 1941 Arisolar:
Mundo Saturn 00,27 cnj IC

One thing I want to emphasize is that the fact we are consulting an Arisolar-based quotidian doesn't mean we're consulting the Arisolar itself. The Libsolar was the prevailing Quarter chart for Washington (but it was dormant for Hawaii). Though the above is quite good, there is no statistical basis for consulting the Arisolar itself for events in December unless the Cansolar and Libsolar are both dormant.

For the current catalogue of 354 events, if you exclude the Arisolar's own quarter (and of course exclude dormant charts) the Arisolar scored at least a +1 ("fits the event more than not") 115 times out of 151, or 76% of the time, which is a poor score. In comparison, for the Arisolar's own quarter, it was +1 or better 88% of the time.

DC's Dec 7th 12:48 PM ARIPSSI (Mean):
DSC 00,08 Tau
UR 00,26 Tau
t. Saturn 29,34 Aries

CANPSSI for same time (Mean):
IC 5,42 Vir
t. Nep 5,46 Vir
Zenith 23,35 Pi
t. Mars 21,36 Pi

Thanks

These are both Mean. Did you calculate the Apparent for comparison?

These are pretty good, especially the Cansolar. They give a very different side of the event than the Washington CapQ and CanQ.

You didn't give the Capsolar, I'm guessing because it didn't show anything. My estimation method (of the mean rate) gives Asc 2° Aquarius, MC 17° Scorpio, which hits nothing.

Are we to label all PSSR Solar Ingress Progressions as Bradley's PSSI, or only the ARIPSSI?

I suppose we need to find language. If we said the name in full, it would be "Capsolar PSSI" (or possibly the words flipped). I propose PSSI-Cap, PSSI-Ari, PSSI-Can, and PSSI-Lib. Letting my playful side out, I recommend the letters PSSI be pronounced "pussy" so that these are pronounced "Pussy-Cap, Pussy-Can," etc.

I suppose we should distinguish whether it is mean or apparent rate until we settle onto a standard. This could be -A or -M at the end. So the apparent rate PSSI of the Capsolar would be the PSSI-Cap-A.

Does that work?

Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

PSSI of the Arisolar

PSSI of the Arisolar

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