Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

The other night I played music with a person for the first time, and over the course of the evening we uncovered some interesting coincidences that made me think this is more than the average musical acquaintance.

So here goes an analysis; please free to add your insights.

Info

Me, (O)
October 8, 1980, 12:00pm El Cajon, California

Her, (K)
October 17, 1977, 5:50am Ketchikan, Alaska

LAYER ONE
O Sun conjunct K Pluto
O Mars square K Saturn
O Jupiter conjunct K AC, Square K MC/IC, Opposite K DC
O Saturn conjunct K AC, Opposite K DC
O Mars trine K DC
O Mars trine K Mars

K Sun conjunct O Pluto
K Moon square O Jupiter and Saturn
K Mars trine O Mars
K Jupiter square O MC
K Jupiter square O Saturn

SUN-PLUTO
Pluto is ever something of an enigma to the Sun, shielded by a barrier which cannot be entirely by-passed. This is the only planet which can awe the Sun; for within the Pluto person is some element of innate strength which the Sun can never understand, a situation Pluto promotes. Sun may stay in Pluto's life for a while, then suddenly depart, perhaps not to be heard from again.
[ADD: In most relationships, Sun departs. What's behind this is that Pluto's mere presence has a transforming effect on the Sun, stimulating the Sun to undergo change - without Pluto taking any particular actions in the matter. Most people are unwilling to accept this in a relationship, so they leave. But others...]

MOON-JUPITER
Jupiter gives the Moon the red carpet treatment, wining and dining him or otherwise giving him a good time. Much congeniality here, and Moon comes to regard Jupiter as a person of importance, in many ways a superior being.
[ADD: My current notebooks especially confirm that Jupiter extends hospitality to Moon in diverse ways and shows many kindnesses. Both tend to look after each other as friends.]

MOON-SATURN
Saturn somehow inhibits the Moon from fully expressing her emotions, or remains unresponsive to the latter's sensuous solicitations. Though often present among lifelong friends, it is not particularly conducive to domestic happiness together.
[ADD: Moon wants to "settle in" with Saturn.]
[NOTE: Rather than Saturn inhibiting Moon's emotional expression per se, I'm more inclined to read my current notebooks as showing that Saturn tends to be somewhat removed without being cold. For example (but only one variation), Saturn may be quite affectionate but already committed and "unavailable," or simply not interested except in a casual contact.]

MARS-MARS
Very passionate and forceful, demanding physical outlets. At worst, it can indicate terrible enemies, fighting tooth and nail. However, contests can also exist on the football field or as healthy competition in the world of business. It can be a strongly sexual aspect, providing physical expression in erotic escapades.
[NOTE: I no longer would call these "very passionate and forceful." The aspect in non-sexual relationships - say in business, friends, etc. - primarily plays ego confrontation, competition, all the anthropological rituals around that. In sexual relationships I don't see this aspect very often, and, when present, I'm inclined to call it "perfectly serviceable" rather than "passionate and forceful." There is also an expression of team mates, fighting together in common cause as on a sports team or battle field.]

MARS-SATURN
This is often considered the most unfortunate of interchanges, considered a hatred combination, but it is not always apparent in the extreme. At the very least, Saturn somehow debilitates Mars' feelings of strength and confidence, and eventually loses respect for him. Depending on other conditions in the charts, Mars may retaliate such that it becomes survival of the fittest! Mars is too often held back in his growth for this to be a comfortable interchange between business or marriage partners, or child and parent or teacher.
[ADD: Mars doesn't go away from this relationship feeling he got his due.]
[ADD: Somehow I missed using the phrase "power struggles," which certainly can describe these. Even in positive relationships, there is an inequity in power distribution, and an instinct to set it aright. Often, this is exactly what causes the conflicts..]

[NOTE: Some further remarks based on a very important personal relationship where we had a partile Mars-Saturn square. As I've seen in other Mars-Saturn interchanges, there was no shortage of sexual energy, but all seem to have a bit of the forbidden, dangerous, or defiant about them. Despite good intentions and good skills, over the years there was an increased element of inequality manifest. Communication withholds were increased in a misguided effort to avoid unhappiness and conflict; and these withholds, in turn, hurt the relationship. Perhaps most importantly, when we weren't fighting with each other, our conjoint presence seemed to cause conflict around us, and to stir people to discomfort and upset - probably because, if we were denying that expression ourselves, then it was going to find another avenue to express itself in our lives. For best effect, in such a relationship one must keep communication absurdly clean and open despite any seeming short-term costs; be sensitive to the fact that there is a tendency for both of you to hurt, both of you to force your way through it, and one or both of you to come out of it thinking you "didn't get your due." Maybe find something to fight against or fight for as a team.]

MARS-ANGLE
There is a tremendous energy flow between these two people, usually involving overt physical aggression. This can be either sexual or in the form of Mars attacking the Angle. In some cases, the angle may see Mars' masculinity strongly highlighted, leading to intense admiration or physical arousal.

JUPITER-ANGLE
Jupiter desires a continuing friendship and thinks highly of the Angle. They are likely to share much laughter and many good times. Jupiter may even raise the Angle to a higher lifestyle.
[NOTE: To put it simply: These relationships are good for you!]

SATURN-ANGLE
Saturn represents a burden to the Angle, but not always an unwanted one. Saturn is a limitation or frustration, and may find that he cannot entirely respect the Angle.
[ADD: Saturn in some fashion keeps distance or draws a line. The relationship may be a valued one, but, due to Saturn's limits, it will not likely be what it might have been.]

SUN-NEPTUNE
Neptune exaggerates both the good and the bad of this situation. In general, Neptune feels confused, embarrassed, and inadequate in the Sun's presence, making it difficult for either to communicate sensibly with the other. The Sun can easily humble or awe Neptune, perhaps having some secret or quality which makes the Sun appear Neptune's superior.
[ADD: I've seen the above work out in work or general non-romantic situations. In situations that could be romantic or sexual, each finds the other to be a temptation that it is appropriate to indulge in, as if ordering desert. In many cases, temporary circumstances setup the "appropriateness."]

Summary:

I notice both charts have Virgo stellia. The mutual Sun-Pluto conjunctions stand out. We blow each others minds. Mars-Mars says to me that we could be competitively good as bandmates. The mutual Jupiter-Angle aspects mean we want to be friends. But then there's an odd Moon-Saturn and Mars-Saturn interchange, that sounds pretty awful. On the other hand, it intuitively feels to me that a power struggle, where neither feels they get their full say, could be very interesting musically--if harnessed well.

LAYER TWO

K transits to O

Pluto - Sun
Uranus - Mercury
Saturn - Mars
Jupiter - MC
Mars - Jupiter (sextile)
Mercury - Pluto
Mercury - Neptune

PLUTO aspecting Natal SUN
Your total experience of yourself, of who you are, is changing, evolving, perhaps bringing significant outer changes in the structure of your life as well. New phases begin while others are brought to a close. Major goals become even more major, and near a climax. A dominating, inconsiderate side of you may emerge as you pay, for a while, less attention to what others feel, think, and say than to what you inwardly know to be true. Of primary importance, though, is your increasingly in-turned self-awareness, and clearer perception of your inner identity, goals, and life-purposes. Old illusions cannot be maintained as easily as before, so this "recreation of self" may demand some hard confrontation of reality.
IN BRIEF: Self-redefinition. Separation from old elements of your life. Awareness turns inward, perceiving selfhood more directly and reverently. Old doors close, as new ones open. Requires alone time to get acquainted with transformed identity and goals.

URANUS aspecting Natal MERCURY
During this acutely mental time, your mind is awakened to a wide range of new concepts and subject areas, and a flood of new ideas. Both creative and a little eccentric in your views, unhesitant to change your mind on long-held opinions, you overthrow the rigidity of standard belief. Your mental originality has a practical, technical quality. New discoveries are important in key areas of your life and work. Variety of interests can, however, lead to dispersion of energy. Major gambles should be avoided as your "revelations" display a nearly religious obstinacy, sometimes unrealistic. Yet in your toppling of personal idols a new mental freedom emerges, a species of intellectual enlightenment, opening the way to a more powerful, fulfilled life.
IN BRIEF: Very mental period. Key realizations, enlightenment; flood of ideas. Mind open to new concepts; opinions change. Practical or technical discoveries. Possible dispersion of interests.

SATURN aspecting Natal MARS
Potentially high accomplishments, but probably against heavy odds. The fighter in you butts heads with elements of restriction and control, both in your environment and within yourself. Your independent, spirited, creative will seeks to express itself freely and chafes at any bit placed upon it. Clear-headed evaluation works best now. Where blind struggle and impulsive action fail (thus reinforcing a sense of inadequacy), careful planning and realistic appraisal may win the day. Few competitive ventures thrive now, so work should be done for its own sake. Exercise caution regarding physical health and well-being. Endurance is considerable, but psychological pressures and the constant tendency to drive oneself may deplete physical resources. Consideration for others' rights and feelings is vitally important now, and wins you support in your battle with your own personal limits.
IN BRIEF: Fighting one's limits. Struggle. Poor for competition. Industrious, accomplishment possible; but against stern odds. Possible injury, confidence loss, sexual barriers. Conflict of wills.

JUPITER square Natal MIDHEAVEN
IN BRIEF: Advance, growth; fortunate period. Clearer view of life direction. Prosperity likely. Ambitious. Desire for greater importance. Possible respect, esteem, honor, recognition. Avoid over- bearing egoism and arrogance.

T MARS - N JUPITER
High spirits, joy of life. You are more permissive with yourself. Leisure activities are pursued liberally, perhaps aggressively. Money burns a hole in your pocket (or is otherwise hastened in its departure).

T MERCURY - N NEPTUNE
Mind deals with fantasy better than fact. Foggy thinking, strange perceptions, fascination with the surreal, confused communications, metaphysical thought.

T MERCURY - N PLUTO
Confrontation. Decisions are called due, perhaps commitments made. Need for unambiguous answers. Stress, irritability.

So it sounds like I experience her as a period of dramatic redefinition of life goals, and intense creativity, but also one of butting heads and feeling restricted. In the context of that, it is a period of growth, prosperity, joy. Ultimately, it comes down to clear communication, even though I'll feel foggy and metaphysical about it all.

O transits to K

Uranus - Mercury, Sun (semi-sextile)
Saturn - Venus
Jupiter - Mars, MC/IC,
Mars - Saturn, AC
Mercury - Uranus
Sun - Pluto

URANUS aspecting Natal SUN
A new lease on life is in store for you! Your self-perspective and sense of life-purpose are clarified and your vital creative spirit awakened. Professional limelight, and even advance, is possible, as others become aware of your talents. Freedom (from anything that has previously held you back) becomes very important to you now, which may lead to rebelliousness or intolerance of authority. Individuality runs more strongly in you than cooperation. Relationships thrive, though, if based on excitement, color, and renewal of aliveness. Tension or obstinacy is a signal that you are resisting appropriate change. Do not let old habits and ways of viewing yourself hold back the originality, creativity, and thrill of life which is natural to you.
IN BRIEF: Self-expressive, progressive, maybe rebellious. Creativity, ingenuity. Love of freedom; intolerance of authority. Life seems more interesting, exciting. Tension, if self-renewal is resisted.

URANUS aspecting Natal MERCURY
During this acutely mental time, your mind is awakened to a wide range of new concepts and subject areas, and a flood of new ideas. Both creative and a little eccentric in your views, unhesitant to change your mind on long-held opinions, you overthrow the rigidity of standard belief. Your mental originality has a practical, technical quality. New discoveries are important in key areas of your life and work. Variety of interests can, however, lead to dispersion of energy. Major gambles should be avoided as your "revelations" display a nearly religious obstinacy, sometimes unrealistic. Yet in your toppling of personal idols a new mental freedom emerges, a species of intellectual enlightenment, opening the way to a more powerful, fulfilled life.
IN BRIEF: Very mental period. Key realizations, enlightenment; flood of ideas. Mind open to new concepts; opinions change. Practical or technical discoveries. Possible dispersion of interests.

SATURN aspecting Natal VENUS
An increased desire for secure affection and a narrowing of your range of social and romantic contacts probably takes one of two forms: (a) settling into a close, solid relationship with a bias toward commitment; or (b) feeling isolated, shy, alone, left "out of the game," and perhaps self-conscious about your appearance. The latter is likely if you maintain walls of self-doubt and caution about your affections; the former if your increased self-interest with your own pleasure needs coexists with a warm, open approach. This applies to all love relationships, including those with children, parents, and friends, as well as romantic bonds. At times like these, relationships seem put to a serious test, their quality determining the outcome: many separations and disappointments occur, but also many weddings! Love and pleasure seem identified with duty and devotion now, such that caring for loved ones tends to be immensely satisfying.
IN BRIEF: Needing more security in love. Pleasure limited. Feeling alone, excluded, neglected; or pleasure in new emotional commitments. Love and pleasure may = duty and devotion. Vanity concerns.

JUPITER aspecting Natal MARS
Your physical, aggressive, and competitive traits prosper during this favorable period for sexual, athletic, military, and similar aggressive activities. Business activities tend to succeed, and earning power is enhanced, as you are able to compete professionally more effectively. Filled with energy and enthusiasm, self-assured and enterprising, you delight in victory. Ego-strength is enhanced, leading to greater confidence and sureness - but perhaps also to aggressive self-righteousness and "coming on too strong." In your bold indulgence, any immoderation is possible including arrogance and self-will. Endurance is particularly good, and health generally improves unless you severely over-extend yourself in your newfound feelings of strength.
IN BRIEF: Excellence in physical, aggressive, or competitive matters: sex, sports, war, business, etc. Energy, enthusiasm, immoderation, self-will. Enterprising, self-assured.

JUPITER square Natal MIDHEAVEN
IN BRIEF: Advance, growth; fortunate period. Clearer view of life direction. Prosperity likely. Ambitious. Desire for greater importance. Possible respect, esteem, honor, recognition. Avoid over- bearing egoism and arrogance.

T MARS – N SATURN
Rigid, stagnant patterns break up. Stressful; but can feel very good about constructive labor, of struggling for rather than against. Debts are called due and skeletons dragged out of closets: a great time to resolve things that are incomplete or unresolved. Health may be strained. Give yourself a break!

T MERCURY - N URANUS
Mentally quick, clever, investigative. Wants to break with routine. Discovery. Possible tension.

T SUN - N PLUTO
Impactful events, somewhat critical in nature, perhaps confrontive, seem to force a decision. Possible turning point. Tendency to withdraw, pull back emotionally, perhaps flee.

T SUN - N NEPTUNE
Mostly passive, inactive. More vulnerability, sensitivity, receptivity. Emotionally excitable; perhaps reactive or introverted. Imaginative, theatrical, surrealistic, self-indulgent.

So, from her perspective, it seems I represent a time of excitement and new ideas, increased creativity. But also a period where she is interested in settling into more stable relationships. That sets a context for a period of growth, enthusiasm.

LAYER THREE

Less central variables:

O Sun sextile K Neptune
O Moon sextile K Neptune
O Venus sextile K Jupiter
O Mars sextile K AC

K Sun sextile O Neptune
K Venus sextile O Mars
K Mars sextile O Jupiter

O Moon semi-sextile K Uranus
O Venus semi-sextile K Venus
O Jupiter semi-sextile K Saturn

K Sun semi-sextile O Jupiter Uranus and Mars
K Moon semi-sextile O Mars

SUN-NEPTUNE
Neptune exaggerates both the good and the bad of this situation. In general, Neptune feels confused, embarrassed, and inadequate in the Sun's presence, making it difficult for either to communicate sensibly with the other. The Sun can easily humble or awe Neptune, perhaps having some secret or quality which makes the Sun appear Neptune's superior.
[ADD: I've seen the above work out in work or general non-romantic situations. In situations that could be romantic or sexual, each finds the other to be a temptation that it is appropriate to indulge in, as if ordering desert. In many cases, temporary circumstances setup the "appropriateness."]

MOON-NEPTUNE
Madness is in the air! Neptune in particular is totally flustered or embarrassed by the Moon's presence, and in his desire to set things aright and hide his insecurity be babbles on to his utter mortification. This causes nothing but confusion between the two involved.
[ADD: Much sensitivity between them, easy empathy.]
[NOTE: The most deeply shaming sexual experience of my life was with someone where each of us had Moon exactly opposite the other's Neptune. In other cases, as the Moon person, I've never felt I really knew where I stood in the relationship or, alternately, it was obvious I stood nowhere! I suspect I gave something of the same impression in the few situations where roles were reversed and my Neptune aspected the other's Moon.]

VENUS-JUPITER
Each benefits from the other. Jupiter is always conscious of public images, and wants to be seen with the most beautiful and charming people. He lavishes affection and gifts upon Venus, the Fairest of the Fair in his eyes. Venus, quite pleased, turns her affections toward the Jupiterian, possibly with the feeling that she is consorting with royalty.

MARS-ANGLE
There is a tremendous energy flow between these two people, usually involving overt physical aggression. This can be either sexual or in the form of Mars attacking the Angle. In some cases, the angle may see Mars' masculinity strongly highlighted, leading to intense admiration or physical arousal.

VENUS-MARS
The most sexual of all interchanges. Mars takes delight in making physical advances towards Venus (whether something mild, such as teasing and pestering, or a definite erotic advance). Mars excites Venus' passionate devotion.
[NOTE: The main point here is that this is a passionate, sensuous, sexy aspect in and of itself - not much more than that, and rarely less than that. Generally a good time is had by all!]
[CASUAL OBSERVATION: I'm starting to look at these in nonromantic relationships where I can find them (e.g., business). I don't yet have a solid handle on it - though it does seem that Mars wants something from Venus, and can sometimes hover or pester if he or she isn't getting the attention or response sought - almost as if in a "crush."]

MARS-JUPITER
Jupiter does much to enhance, compliment, and improve the physical expression of Mars. In romance, that can mean giving Mars confidence in his sexuality; in business, giving him every opportunity to improve his station. Jupiter may be overly generous with the opportunistic Mars, and unless the relationship is amiable, Mars will be continually demand or borrowing money from Jupiter to the latter's discomfort. Jupiter can take offense from Mars' bad manners and refuse to be seen with him in public.
[NOTE: The above is over-stated. Yes, Mars can cost Jupiter money, but usually isn't hitting him up hard for it. (Jupiter is very willing to do Mars a favor.) The first sentence makes the main point, plus these relationships are simply fun!]

So, to the other side of things--what I've learned about our chemistry so far:

1. When I first became acquainted with K a year or two ago, I immediately found her attractive, and initially--in the dim light of the milonga venue where I often dance tango--thought she was an an ex girlfriend (someone we'll call A). She found me intimidating and avoided my cabeceo (non-verbal invitation to dance).

2. Eventually, we began dancing, and I was struck by her intelligence, and her strongly analytical mind. I learned she had played flute classically (and ambitiously, until a friend supplanted her as first chair in the orchestra and she lost her drive to excel) and bass in some punk bands.

3. Last month, she came to the concerts at the end of my week at the Reed college tango program. We found each other sitting next to each other. There is a physical magnetism between us. While we listened to one amazing performance by world class tango musician trio consisting of piano, bass, and flute, I found myself pointing out the flautist and bassist, lifelong musical collaborators, and telling her--completely unexpectedly--that that would be she and I in 20 years.

4. Wednesday night, she came over to play music, and it was a great creative fit. Our working styles meshed, and we were both energized. We also talked, and I learned that she had been the original bassist for band that A (my ex-gf who I mentioned at the outset) had taken me to see--though this happened after she had just been replaced by a bassist that my ex-gf was friends with. I also learned that she is a student in a yet-unnamed Mystery School initiatory system, and we spend a great part of the evening talking astrology and mysticism.

There is attraction on my side, of a sexual and somehow taboo nature--with all the Virgo going around between us, and the potential to be musical partners, it feels kind of incestuously familial as opposed to a long-term close romantic partnership. And the super close Saturn-Mars square has me wanting to be extra cautious.

Plus, I have a gf (who I have told all of this to, as we're both open and non-jealous with each other), and I have no idea what this person's views on polyamory are. We haven't said or done anything of an explicitly sexual or romantic nature--though dancing tango is quite intimate, and we have found ourselves sitting next to each other and touching arms in a casually affectionate way. So I think before long I will choose to share all of this info and thoughts with her, so that we can be crystal clear with each other.

Anyway, any advice about how to proceed with this musical connection in a way that benefits the parties involved is quite welcome.

You've given some wonderful descriptions of pieces of this that should help anyone who reads this thoughtfully.

The Virgo pile-ups are an interesting similarity with its own dynamic. What I first noticed, though, is that you each have Pluto conjunct the other's Sun. There is a tendency for you to each push each other to evolve and confront and rearrange yourself (not necessarily consciously - its arises from your being with each other more than anything. You will each find this challenging and powerful and valuable unless (for one or both of you) it hits the level of feeling like "the other person is trying to change me" too much.

Actually, the first thing I noticed is her Moon-Venus square on the angles, so of course you found her attractive. (Everybody probably does.) In your case, though, it also falls on your angles, just as her Jupiter is on your WP. If her horoscope were your lunar return (on your angles), we'd read it as a having a great time - possibly a romance - at least a great party!

But her Venus exactly conjoins your Saturn. This usually means that you are inaccessible or spoil her fun. It might be as simple of your being partnered and her not being poly - certainly the Sag Moon (trine Saturn exactly) and Virgo Venus can do that way and, while her needs for physical expression (dance, sex, whatever) are probably considerable with Sun square Mars closely, Fortunately, the answer to this is easy since there are several levels at which you could see yourself having a relationship with her, from "occasional friend for great conversation" to dance partner to other kinds of playmate.

What's your history with Sagittarius Moons? With your Virgo Moon, they could be in the pool of people you commonly attract. Your history would be a good guide in this.

You may seem... institutional and paternal to her, with your Jupiter-Saturn straddling her Ascendant, sitting on her Venus etc. For example, this would be a good arrangement if you were her formal instructor or her employer.

The worst thing is the 25' Mars-Saturn square. This is struggle. I can imagine that as dance partners this can be brought to good use. In more personal areas it can quickly turn to power struggles, especially if she feels you have too much of the power balance in the relatonship and so has to "shoot you down." (LOL, she IS a Sag, after all.)

What's your history with Sagittarius Moons?

I have no idea.

The more I understand how to interpret these the more shocked I am at how well they tell the story.

I ended up sending her my write-up, and she called me and confessed that she's had a long-standing crush on me.

And that she had observed that particular Venus-Saturn energy at play. Part of my schtick tends to be about being a debbie downer--it's a bit sadistic, but I love spoiling fun with unpleasant facts.

So here she had this (fairly accurate) impression of me as a weird (Uranus), non-charming guy who always kept shutting down her advances (out of complete obliviousness on my part).

On my part, I observed the Mars-Saturn aspect as being an incompatibility between our relative mixes of good and evil. My Mars is strong and pervy. I can already tell that she hews much closer to the angelic/light side of things. She laughs at my endeavors with a bit of condescension.

Yes, the polyamory and current relationship is a limiting factor, long-term. She appreciated my transparency, and still wanted to commit to following the energy where it will take us. I think she wants a short-term affair, which I'm actually kind of meh on. I could be monogamous, but probably only with a poly person.

As we spoke on the phone, I told myself I would let her be the one to end this conversation, in an attempt to side-step the Venus-Saturn energy for a bit.

My phone battery ran out, and my phone hung up on her during a particularly vulnerable moment. (We laughed about it after).

Lesson: energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be changed in form.

After the call, I did find myself transformed in a plutonian way. The next day, my ex-wife called, demanding emotional support in an interpersonal conflict that had nothing to do with me (other than that it revolved around a cat that stayed with her when we divorced0, and I felt myself able to stay open hearted, and still maintain boundaries.

And now the cat in question, Adam, my favorite cat in the world, is living with me again.

So, good job calling this one, Jim and the other stars of the zodiac.

I'm going to Saturn this Venus as considerately as possible, while trying to preserve the helpful transformative aspects of this relationship.

I pent years sorta kinda getting synastry - all the right pieces, no perspective - until I came up with this present tactical approach. Since then.... yeah, I'm surprised when it doesn't nail the situation. (All the right pieces were already there and these tactics put them in perspective and right relation.)