First Return

Q&A and discussion on Sidereal Solar Returns.
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sotonye
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First Return

Post by sotonye » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:41 am

I'm very interested in the practical applications of sidereal astrology and have recently taken up the task of predictive work. I'm going to attempt an interpretation of my solar return chart for 2018 and I'm hoping someone might be able to step in where I've missed the mark, since I no doubt will.
(birth info: May 2nd 1995, 8:03am, Hollywood, CA.
birthday location: Burbank, CA.
Solar return time: May 2nd, 5:44:19am)

To begin I have to say that it's very difficult to become aware of the interplay of themes in a year, they aren't as explicit as you'd expect, though I do believe, from reading the experiences of others on here, that they absolutely can be.

Foreground Planets:
Pluto conjunct MC 0°
Mars conjunct MC 3°
Uranus widely conjunct ASC 5°

Since Mr. Eshelman in his SSR resource on the forum says to give special attention to angular return planets, Im certain it's safe to say that Pluto and Mars (and to a lesser extent Uranus), as well as the Sun and Jupiter, since they're in angular houses, present the most significant symbolism for the year, and maybe it could even be said that any interpretation could begin and end here.

The conjunction between Pluto and Mars on an angle I believe is an overriding force in the chart and might suggest the manifestation of extremes of Mars/Pluto symbolism; aggression is an important behavior to curtail and to defend against this year. But taking what these planets normally symbolize, this year could be one of alienation and perhaps significant change. An incredible amount of energy and effort might be expended in pursuit of goals, the desire for personal elevation coming before anything else, but what this all might mean for the fruition of goals I'm not certain. At any rate it's likely that this same energy might come off as abrasive and repellant to others, might manifest as unruly behavior which rubs everyone the wrong way.

Sun in an angular house and approaching the ascendant only further consolidates the theme of desire for recognition precipitated by a closely angular Pluto on the MC, and Jupiter also present in an angular house and in soft aspect to Pluto might smooth out some difficulties which would have otherwise been overwhelming.

Venus and the moon are on the borders of angular houses and making a close opposition to one another, but I'm not sure how to interpret this symbolism or if the themes present within it would stand out from the more angular configurations in the chart.

(I hope I did better this time around)
Last edited by sotonye on Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: First Return

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:25 am

There is a calculation error of some sort here.

For your previously stated birth data of May 2, 1995, 8:03 AM PDT, Hollywood, CA, your Sun is 17°04'20" Aries. Your most recent Sidereal Solar Return is May 2, 2018, 5:44:19 AM, Burbank, CA with Ascendant 9°27' Aries, which is about 5° different than the chart you calculated.

Want to try it again before we jump in?

It may help you to have the mundane angularities of the SSR positions (these can differ, a little or a lot, from how close to an angle the planet looks ecliptically). You have:

Pluto just past MC 0°30'
Uranus just past Asc 2°35'
Sun approaching Asc 4°43'
Mars approaching MC 5°18'
Mercury past Asc 8°23'
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Jupiter Sets at Dawn
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Re: First Return

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:58 am

We try not to post images to this forum. Mr. E pays for the space out of his own pocket, and images take up a lot of space. There are lots of free image sites where you can post, and just link to the image here or enclose the URL in the image tags ("insert image" - the button that looks like a dot and a mountain)

On Astrodienst, just go to the extended chart selection, make sure the data you saved for your birth chart is selected, and choose the "solar return" option. If you want a chart for Burbank instead of your birthplace, you can create and save another set of birthdata exactly the same except choose Burbank for the birthplace. (Had you moved to a different time zone, you'd have to add or subtract from the birth time to get the Universal Time the same, but you didn't.)

sotonye
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Re: First Return

Post by sotonye » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:19 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:There is a calculation error of some sort here.

For your previously stated birth data of May 2, 1995, 8:03 AM PDT, Hollywood, CA, your Sun is 17°04'20" Aries. Your most recent Sidereal Solar Return is May 2, 2018, 5:44:19 AM, Burbank, CA with Ascendant 9°27' Aries, which is about 5° different than the chart you calculated.

Oh no! The difference is significant, thank you for pointing this out Mr. Eshelman.
Want to try it again before we jump in?
Yes I'm going to try again. I'm going to edit the first post.
Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:We try not to post images to this forum. Mr. E pays for the space out of his own pocket, and images take up a lot of space. There are lots of free image sites where you can post, and just link to the image here or enclose the URL in the image tags ("insert image" - the button that looks like a dot and a mountain)
Hi JSAD, thank you for telling me, I removed the image and will post only links to charts from now on :)

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Re: First Return

Post by Danica » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:48 pm

Always take into consideration the dynamic aspects (0*, 90*, 180*) that SSR Moon has with the planets in the Solar Return as well as with natal planets.
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=224
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=223
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

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Re: First Return

Post by sotonye » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:42 pm

by Danica »

Always take into consideration the dynamic aspects (0*, 90*, 180*) that SSR Moon has with the planets in the Solar Return as well as with natal planets.
Would the dynamic aspect between the Moon and Venus have any appreciable say in the year if other planets are more angular?

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Re: First Return

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:46 pm

Yes.
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Re: First Return

Post by sotonye » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:41 pm

Hm okay got it! And how does my revision look? I redid the first post

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Re: First Return

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:28 pm

sotonye wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:41 am
Im certain it's safe to say that Pluto and Mars (and to a lesser extent Uranus), as well as the Sun and Jupiter, since they're in angular houses
But Jupiter isn't foreground. Its house doesn't grant it strength. (Sun is foreground.) Transiting Mercury is widely foreground, might be overwhelmed by the rest so perhaps it's not a problem you skipped it.
Venus and the moon are on the borders of angular houses and making a close opposition to one another, but I'm not sure how to interpret this symbolism or if the themes present within it would stand out from the more angular configurations in the chart.
Moon aspects are always important, regardless of angularity. A standard interpretation of SSR Moon aspecting SSR Venus is: "Vivid feeling responses, intense emotional life (moodiness). Temperamentally hungry for affection (affection received, being in love); need for gentleness, tenderness, caressing, touching, holding; responding with full sensual vigor to another's enamored advances. Responding to beauty (aesthetics, art-minded). Marked predominance of female component in behavior (any problems arise from inability to accept full scope of feminine side); desire for children. High frustration tolerance, usually happy state of mind (shared happiness)."

SSR Moon is also aspecting your natal Moon and Jupiter. Interpretations of these are here: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=223
Regardless, Moon is triggering a strong Moon-Venus-Jupiter cluster.

You also need to include angularity of your natal planets. I'll give a full breakdown of active factors in the chart in the next post.
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Re: First Return

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:36 pm

I have some added advantage that I can calculate the mundane angularity more exactly, so we might as well start with that.

t Pluto on MC +0°22'
t Uranus on Asc +2°35'
-- t Uranus-Pluto sq. 2°13' in mundo
r/t Sun on Asc -4°43'
t Mars on MC -5°18'
r Neptune on MC -7°23'
-- t Mars sq. r Sun 0°34' in mundo
-- t Mars conj. r Neptune 1°43'
-- r Sun-Neptune sq. 2°40' in mundo
-- t Mars-Pluto conj. 2°53'
-- t Pluto conj. r Neptune 4°36'
t Mercury on Asc +8°23'

t Moon-Venus op. 1°35'
t Moon op. r Moon 2°38'
t Moon conj. r Jupiter 3°09'
t Moon-Neptune op. 4°48'

t Neptune sq. r Asc 0°27'
t Uranus sq. r Uranus 1°30'
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Re: First Return

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:46 pm

You correctly detected that the Moon aspects seem not to be telling the story as the rest of the chart. They are, however, as important as angularities, and have to fit - even if it ends up looking like two separate plotlines.

So, let's try to isolate the main threads: Transiting Pluto is within a degree of an angle (and has been close to an angle several years running - probably almost every year of your life, since you were born with it closely angular and, during your lifetime, transiting Pluto has advanced about 2°/year while SSR angles have rotated about 92° per year. Therefore, as strong as this Pluto is, by itself it is nothing in particular because it's just the way your life has always looked.

But it's not alone. Uranus is nearly as angular (2°35' from Ascendant), and this puts them in roughly 2° mundane square (paran). Uranus square Pluto, then, is the loudest single note of the chart. This should be a year of significant change and rearranging the pieces of important areas of your life. That transiting Uranus squares your natal Uranus closely (and, therefore, has been doing so by ordinary transit) reinforces this: Time to rotate yourself into a different segment of life.

So... what else is involved with Uranus-Pluto? That should tell us something about this change.

Transiting Mars is moderately foreground, and moderately conjunct Pluto, so this is a pretty important aspect (as you detected). There are numerous Mars themes possible but, with it conjunct Pluto, they all likely indicate a great release of force. This could be violence or exertion or stress or unprecedented physical effort, etc. The most important thing about the Mars, though, is that it closely conjoins your foreground natal Neptune. Harder to see unless you can calculate a mundoscope, is that it is in partile (0°34') square to both natal and SSR Sun. This gives a Sun-Mars square to the SSR itself (masculine, vital, sexually aggressive, competitive) but also gives you a natal Sun-Neptune mundane square that you don't have in your ecliptical natal chart. It only exists mundanely, and when the wheel is oriented in this particular way. Read about a natal Sun-Neptune aspect to see what you're bringing into the mix this year.

So... building up to it... this means you have an angular Mars transit to natal Sun-Neptune. That doesn't sound particularly pleasant. (Mars transit to natal Neptune is probably my least favorite transit.) Your reality is challenged, your vulnerabilities are up, something aggressive (and perhaps threatening) is challenging your way of having pieced the world together. (Read Mars transits to natal Sun and natal Neptune in the Transits section for a bit more.) Furthermore, transiting Pluto is within 5° of conjunct your natal Neptune on the angles, so, again, your reality - your belief system, how you've constructed that the world is - is being shaken, challenged, invited to reinvent itself.

By itself, this sounds rough. The Uranus-Pluto is neutral, the rest so far sounds rough. There are a couple of things to balance it, though.

For one, you are in a phase of life where your Sun is foreground. This tends to put one a bit more "in the driver's seat." Even if attacked (which isn't the only possibility, believe me!), it gives you an upper hand.

The other thing is those Moon aspects. Moon aspects transiting Venus and natal Moon-Jupiter. The Moon aspects are extremely positive. (There's a little Neptune, too, but it's wider). This gives a protective element to the year, and suggests other possibilities than violent attack are affront. For example, if the Moon aspects are collaborating with the angular planets, then the vulnerability, trembling, and having your world shaken could be through a remarkable and eye-opening new sexual relationship (or new dimension to your sexuality). Or, instead of the common Mars-Pluto "working too hard, stress builds, get stress related injuries or illnesses," the Moon aspects show taking time to enjoy yourself, refresh, and regenerate: work hard / play hard.

There are many ways these things can go together, but those are the main players, I think.
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Re: First Return

Post by sotonye » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:08 pm

You correctly detected that the Moon aspects seem not to be telling the story as the rest of the chart. They are, however, as important as angularities

Are moon aspects also as important as angularities in a natal chart?
So, let's try to isolate the main threads: Transiting Pluto is within a degree of an angle (and has been close to an angle several years running - probably almost every year of your life, since you were born with it closely angular and, during your lifetime, transiting Pluto has advanced about 2°/year while SSR angles have rotated about 92° per year. Therefore, as strong as this Pluto is, by itself it is nothing in particular because it's just the way your life has always looked.
This is hilarious, I thought something new was impeding but a boundlessly weird experience has just been the norm this entire. This sounds about right
Transiting Mars is moderately foreground, and moderately conjunct Pluto, so this is a pretty important aspect (as you detected). There are numerous Mars themes possible but, with it conjunct Pluto, they all likely indicate a great release of force. This could be violence or exertion or stress or unprecedented physical effort, etc


I've seen this in action already. And moreover it seems that this configuration is rearing its head in more ways than one. I've been more aggressive this return year, more so than ever before, and I've also put more effort into creative productions than I ever have in my life. I also got chased by a coyote for the first time and I think this falls under Mars themes too, this was an interesting little thing. On a further note I'm wondering if the descriptions for angular planets in a solar return can also apply to lunar returns too?
(Mars transit to natal Neptune is probably my least favorite transit.)
What have your experiences been like with this transit? I kind of like the way it sounds but I might have it all wrong. It sounds very interesting and I'm interested to see how this all might manifest, any shaking up of my notions isn't usually due to exogenous causes and so this has got me a bit excited you know.
For one, you are in a phase of life where your Sun is foreground. This tends to put one a bit more "in the driver's seat." Even if attacked (which isn't the only possibility, believe me!), it gives you an upper hand.
I'm not sure if you mean that I will literally be attacked but this reminds again of the coyote incident, there were three of them but I felt more or less in control of the situation. Somehow ended up back home without much of a hassle, but I am pretty lucky sometimes.
The other thing is those Moon aspects. Moon aspects transiting Venus and natal Moon-Jupiter. The Moon aspects are extremely positive. (There's a little Neptune, too, but it's wider). This gives a protective element to the year, and suggests other possibilities than violent attack are affront. For example, if the Moon aspects are collaborating with the angular planets, then the vulnerability, trembling, and having your world shaken could be through a remarkable and eye-opening new sexual relationship (or new dimension to your sexuality). Or, instead of the common Mars-Pluto "working too hard, stress builds, get stress related injuries or illnesses," the Moon aspects show taking time to enjoy yourself, refresh, and regenerate: work hard / play hard.
Again with respect to the application of descriptions, I'm wondering if the moon aspect descriptions for solar returns apply to lunar returns as well?

And it's nice that I'm seeing all of these themes play out at once, I didn't really notice until after you'd drawn them all out. I'm really thankful for the moon aspects this year, I'd prefer not to get attacked and what you're describing now sounds really cool and amazing, it sounds like things have a chance to turn out alright. Thank you Mr. E

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Re: First Return

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:24 pm

sotonye wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:08 pm
Are moon aspects also as important as angularities in a natal chart?
Luminary hard aspects are comparably strong to angularities in a natal chart. They are the lead factors that show what primary planetary themes are most active in a natal chrt (in addition to luminary signs, of course).

In a solar return, this is a bigger deal: Moon aspects, if sufficiently close, can entirely take the lead away from angular planets.
On a further note I'm wondering if the descriptions for angular planets in a solar return can also apply to lunar returns too?
Similar but different. The interpretations I wrote for Interpreting Solar Returns were specifically, intentionally written to blend the simple symbolism of a planet on an angle (e.g., transiting Mars means "aggression coming from the outside") with the symbolism of the planet being conjunct Sun. They also consider that these interpretations have to apply to the longer stretch of a year, with many subtleties, rather than be quick, terse, event-driven interpretations.

Had I written interpreting Lunar Returns, I would have written entirely new angular planet interpretations. I would have started with the same core "planet on an angle" meanings and then blended them, instead, with interpretations of the planet conjunct Moon. Finally, I would have framed these interpretations in a way that had little "across time development" but, rather, were terse, punchy - something that would hit within a few days to a fortnight. This would have made them read differently,
(Mars transit to natal Neptune is probably my least favorite transit.)
What have your experiences been like with this transit?
Read the standard interpretation of Mars transits to Neptune in the Transits section. I actually soft-peddled the worst of it there. Much of the time it just means that your most unprotected vulnerabilities are laid open and directly subject to psychologically painful assault against which you have no defense, and which your imagination and reactivity then amplify like a funhouse mirror. This isn't the only form, but it's a common one, and explains one sentence in the standard interpretation that is a softer version.
I'm wondering if the moon aspect descriptions for solar returns apply to lunar returns as well?
Ah, I misunderstood your inquiry above. (I thought it was about natals. Moon aspects do not have the same level of importance in a Lunar Return as in a Solar Return. In a much-reduced way, Sun tends to have that role in a Lunar Return (but, again, not so intently).

Remember, you don't really have a Sun in the solar return - you have your natal Sun, but transiting Sun is mostly irrelevant. Sun aspects in a solar return are only important in that they are transits to natal Sun and strong enough for such a transit to have its own voice in the chart. the same is true in a lunar return, except that you don't have a transiting Moon (i.e., you don't have a Moon of the lunar return, only your natal Moon). All Moon aspects are interpreted not as transit-to-transit but as transit-to-natal, which makes a significant difference.
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