Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

On the 21st of this month my lunar return looks pretty neat—a partile conjunction between t. Jupiter and t. Mercury occurs around 4° above the ascendant, and opposes a Moon, which conjoins the descendant exactly, by the same distance! The opposition might be too wide to matter but the partility of the former aspect and the partility of the moon with an angle are interesting, exciting. Is this an outstanding incident chart?

We tend to use that term for charts with partile aspects in partile or near-partile angularity. Nonetheless, this is probably a pretty good lunar.

I say "probably" because you overlooked the angular Mars, which is equally strong to (and aspecting) Mercury and Jupiter. There is also a closely angular Neptune. In fact, there are some pretty harsh aspects, and I think of it as mostly a harsh, threatening SLR with some Mercury-Jupiter "bail me out" salvation.

Calculating for Burbank, here is a breakdown of the SLR.

t Moon on Dsc +0°44' (r Moon +0°33')
r Jupiter on Asc -1°17'
t Neptune sq. Asc -1°28'
t Jupiter on Asc +3°12'
t Mercury on Asc +3°51'
t Mars on IC +3°55'
r Saturn on IC +4°26'
t Sun on EP -2°28'

t Mercury-Mars sq. 0°05' in mundo
t Mercury-Jupiter conj. 0°10'
t Neptune sq. r Moon 0°10'
t Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°21'
t Mars conj. r Saturn 0°31' in mundo
t Mercury sq. r Saturn 0°31' in mundo
t Mars-Jupiter sq. 0°43' in mundo
r Moon-Jupiter op. 0°44' in mund
t Jupiter sq. r Saturn 1°14' in mundo
t Jupiter op. r Moon 2°39' in mundo
t Moon-Mercury op. 3°07' in mundo
---------------------------------------------------
t Moon-Mars sq. 3°11' in mundo
r Jupiter-Saturn sq. 3°53' in mundo
r Moon-Saturn sq. 3°53' in mundo
t Jupiter-Neptune sq. 4°21'
t Jupiter conj. r Jupiter 4°29' in mundo
t Mercury-Neptune sq. 4°32'

Jim Eshelman wrote: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:34 am We tend to use that term for charts with partile aspects in partile or near-partile angularity. Nonetheless, this is probably a pretty good lunar.

Oh that's rare, thank you for the correction

I say "probably" because you overlooked the angular Mars, which is equally strong to (and aspecting) Mercury and Jupiter. There is also a closely angular Neptune. In fact, there are some pretty harsh aspects, and I think of it as mostly a harsh, threatening SLR with some Mercury-Jupiter "bail me out" salvation.

Oh nooooo I did forget the Mars, I'm looking at it now, I wasn't on my computer at the time. Hoping for Jupiter to save me here just like in my daily life.

Calculating for Burbank, here is a breakdown of the SLR.

t Moon on Dsc +0°44' (r Moon +0°33')
r Jupiter on Asc -1°17'
t Neptune sq. Asc -1°28'
t Jupiter on Asc +3°12'
t Mercury on Asc +3°51'
t Mars on IC +3°55'
r Saturn on IC +4°26'
t Sun on EP -2°28'

t Mercury-Mars sq. 0°05' in mundo
t Mercury-Jupiter conj. 0°10'
t Neptune sq. r Moon 0°10'
t Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°21'
t Mars conj. r Saturn 0°31' in mundo
t Mercury sq. r Saturn 0°31' in mundo
t Mars-Jupiter sq. 0°43' in mundo
r Moon-Jupiter op. 0°44' in mund
t Jupiter sq. r Saturn 1°14' in mundo
t Jupiter op. r Moon 2°39' in mundo
t Moon-Mercury op. 3°07' in mundo
---------------------------------------------------
t Moon-Mars sq. 3°11' in mundo
r Jupiter-Saturn sq. 3°53' in mundo
r Moon-Saturn sq. 3°53' in mundo
t Jupiter-Neptune sq. 4°21'
t Jupiter conj. r Jupiter 4°29' in mundo
t Mercury-Neptune sq. 4°32'

How valid are Mundo aspects in SLRs? I didn't know that we considered them, this looks rough as heck Mr. E

Sotonye Dec 21 SLR:

https://imgur.com/a/ZjNcmG4

Indeed, an ‘outstanding incident’ SLR featuring Moon partile 90 Neptune as the main symbolic feature with Mundo Moon partile cnj DSC and Neptune 1,26 cnj Nadir, very potent. Also backed-up by a partile Me-Jup cnj in the immediate foreground as a secondary ‘outstanding incident’ symbolic feature. How will the native react to this SLR with any possible angular native planets? Below is Sotonye’s SLR (inside wheel) bi-wheeled with his Natal (outside wheel).

https://imgur.com/a/U3jttMA

We see Natal Jupiter angular with Natal Saturn angular 1,07 cnj SLR Mars, mixed symbolic action with the greater benefic Jupiter & greater malefic Saturn angular. A most interesting SLR Sotonye. Keep us informed as to how this SLR manifests, and thanks for posting to forum.

sotonye wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:08 am How valid are Mundo aspects in SLRs? I didn't know that we considered them, this looks rough as heck Mr. E

For foreground planets, they are exactly as valid as ecliptical aspects. Fagan made several remarks that boil down to mundane aspects being the only thing valid in solunars, but I won't go that far. Nothing suggests to me that ecliptical aspects are less important, so I treat them the same as I do in solar and lunar ingresses: I use them interchangeably, the smaller orb "wins."

In particular, Fagan emphasized the supreme importance of paranatellonta ("parans") aa THE most important aspects one can find and identify. As he used the term, it simply means that two planets come to angles at the same time and, thus, form an exactly mundane conjunction, opposition, or square. I don't use that term paran much anymore because I think there is more understanding simply to call it a mundane aspect in the immediate foreground, which fits it into a larger picture. Really, we're saying the same thing.

In the "Trump Watch" section of my monthly mundane forecasts, some of my best successes have been from this, including the fact that (because of the rotation of the earth putting the natal chart in different mundane orientation) new aspects form for the natal planets than exist in the natal chart itself. For example, though I have a 4° Mars-Jupiter-Uranus opposition at birth, there is one orientation of the sky where their aspect tightens to within minutes. Or, I have Sun on IC at this latitude when my Jupiter-Uranus rises, so when the roulette wheel spins around to that I suddenly have natal Sun-Jupiter and Sun-Uranus squares for two to four weeks.

In October, Trump had a Demi-SLR followed by a full SLR in which his natal Venus-Saturn conjunction was suddenly square Neptune in the return framework. News reports during and after these weeks described the increasingly brooding negative mental states that I had described weeks in advance, based on these charts. You can read my analysis in the Mundane Forecasts section as examples; these particular ones are here (Oct 1 Demi, Oct 14 SLR):
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2545#p18530

Getting all these details right does involve more work, and more careful work. However, most of the time one can get this more simply. In your case, if you had noticed the Mars (1°07' from your natal Saturn) you'd have gotten most of this. In a somewhat simplified point of view, you do, of course, still need to get the angularities right, but you can rely (for most work) on the ecliptical aspects and recognizing the paran principle. In your upcoming case, it boils down to this:

1. Natal & transiting Moon exactly angular (setting partile), natal Jupiter nearly as much, so your natal Moon-Jupiter opposition is the closest thing.

2. Transiting Mercury-Jupiter 0°10' conjunction, a few degrees above Ascendant, and transiting Mars paran them from a matched distance off the IC. Therefore, Mars square Mercury-Jupiter is main message from the world for this SLR. (If you miss a paran like this, you often miss the whole meat of the return chart.)

3. Also closely angular are transiting Neptune square Ascendant - highlighting its ongoing square to natal Moon-Jupiter (some of the strongest aspects in the whole chart, and easily the most angular).

4. More widely angular (filling in the gaps on details and making their aspects important are natal Saturn near IC and transiting Sun on EP.

So the planets you are working with are natal Moon-Jupiter and some Saturn, and transiting Mercury-Mars-Jupiter and Neptune, with some Sun.

Having identified the foreground planet and gotten a basic message from them, start concentrating on the aspects. Think of them in three groups: natal to natal (natal aspects, showing what you are bringing to the period either proactively or responsively), transit-to-transit (showing what the world is bringing into your life), and transit-to-natal (transits, showing the dynamic interaction of these).

So far, we would have identified the most important "clumps" as transiting Neptune square natal Moon-Jupiter (the most angular, most important, biggest deal) and transiting Mercury-Mars-Jupiter. These already give you most of the biggest details.

Then start looking for aspects you've missed. In case your eyes didn't catch it along the way, this is where you are going to discover the close foreground transit of Mars to your Saturn, barely more than a degree apart ecliptically. (The fact that it is only 0°31' mundanely isn't that important to know when it's already 1°07' ecliptically.)

This covers most of the stuff in the list. There are only a few other things to catch up on, as we widen orbs out to the 5° that seems appropriate for solunars aspects. Moon opposes the transiting Mercury-Jupiter as well, though at a less-acute (wider) orb. Here are the things still left to notice and "fill in the gaps," mostly from ecliptical aspects:

1. Transiting Mercury-Jupiter squares transiting Neptune, taking orbs out to 5° for angular planets (which I do in solunars). Notice this means that they are thus aspecting both Neptune and Mars, the former more widely and the latter closely.

2. Since (1) t Mars is exactly on your Saturn, (2) t Neptune is exactly on your Moon-Jupiter, (3) transiting Mercury-Jupiter is more widely on your Moon-Jupiter, and (4) t Mars is in exact paran to t Mercury-Jupiter, you can be pretty sure that all the cross-aspects are there: Mars also squares your Moon-Jupiter, Mercury-Jupiter squares your Saturn, etc.

It does take paying attention and thinking this through but, once you get the angularities right, the rest falls into patterns pretty easily.

Finally - especially transiting Neptune is square an exactly angular natal Moon! - it's important to remember the wisest afterthought astrologers routinely have about their charts:

The good stuff is almost never quite as good, nor the bad stuff quite as bad, as they seem on paper. Life is mostly ordinary and goes on the way it is. The charts general direction and "tip" of conditions will be accurate, but most people's lives only rarely have extreme events. Therefore, don't assume that what the chart shows will be an extreme event, good or bad.

SteveS wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:00 am Sotonye Dec 21 SLR:

https://imgur.com/a/ZjNcmG4

Indeed, an ‘outstanding incident’ SLR featuring Moon partile 90 Neptune as the main symbolic feature with Mundo Moon partile cnj DSC and Neptune 1,26 cnj Nadir, very potent. Also backed-up by a partile Me-Jup cnj in the immediate foreground as a secondary ‘outstanding incident’ symbolic feature. How will the native react to this SLR with any possible angular native planets? Below is Sotonye’s SLR (inside wheel) bi-wheeled with his Natal (outside wheel).

Does the transit by Neptune take on different meaning since it's angular in my SLR?

https://imgur.com/a/U3jttMA

We see Natal Jupiter angular with Natal Saturn angular 1,07 cnj SLR Mars, mixed symbolic action with the greater benefic Jupiter & greater malefic Saturn angular. A most interesting SLR Sotonye. Keep us informed as to how this SLR manifests, and thanks for posting to forum.

I have natal Saturn angular too!! Oh no! I will keep you informed, thank you for all of these useful pieces of information! This is going to be interesting lol

Jim Eshelman wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:13 am For foreground planets, they are exactly as valid as ecliptical aspects. Fagan made several remarks that boil down to mundane aspects being the only thing valid in solunars, but I won't go that far. Nothing suggests to me that ecliptical aspects are less important, so I treat them the same as I do in solar and lunar ingresses: I use them interchangeably, the smaller orb "wins."

In particular, Fagan emphasized the supreme importance of paranatellonta ("parans") aa THE most important aspects one can find and identify. As he used the term, it simply means that two planets come to angles at the same time and, thus, form an exactly mundane conjunction, opposition, or square. I don't use that term paran much anymore because I think there is more understanding simply to call it a mundane aspect in the immediate foreground, which fits it into a larger picture. Really, we're saying the same thing.

Ah once again my understanding has been revolutionized, thank you

In the "Trump Watch" section of my monthly mundane forecasts, some of my best successes have been from this, including the fact that (because of the rotation of the earth putting the natal chart in different mundane orientation) new aspects form for the natal planets than exist in the natal chart itself.
For example, though I have a 4° Mars-Jupiter-Uranus opposition at birth, there is one orientation of the sky where their aspect tightens to within minutes. Or, I have Sun on IC at this latitude when my Jupiter-Uranus rises, so when the roulette wheel spins around to that I suddenly have natal Sun-Jupiter and Sun-Uranus squares for two to four weeks.

This is cool as hell????? I didn't know any of this

In October, Trump had a Demi-SLR followed by a full SLR in which his natal Venus-Saturn conjunction was suddenly square Neptune in the return framework. News reports during and after these weeks described the increasingly brooding negative mental states that I had described weeks in advance, based on these charts. You can read my analysis in the Mundane Forecasts section as examples; these particular ones are here (Oct 1 Demi, Oct 14 SLR):
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2545#p18530

Im going to check this out, I feel like my horizons are expanding as I type this

Getting all these details right does involve more work, and more careful work. However, most of the time one can get this more simply. In your case, if you had noticed the Mars (1°07' from your natal Saturn) you'd have gotten most of this. In a somewhat simplified point of view, you do, of course, still need to get the angularities right, but you can rely (for most work) on the ecliptical aspects and recognizing the paran principle. In your upcoming case, it boils down to this:

1. Natal & transiting Moon exactly angular (setting partile), natal Jupiter nearly as much, so your natal Moon-Jupiter opposition is the closest thing.

2. Transiting Mercury-Jupiter 0°10' conjunction, a few degrees above Ascendant, and transiting Mars paran them from a matched distance off the IC. Therefore, Mars square Mercury-Jupiter is main message from the world for this SLR. (If you miss a paran like this, you often miss the whole meat of the return chart.)

3. Also closely angular are transiting Neptune square Ascendant - highlighting its ongoing square to natal Moon-Jupiter (some of the strongest aspects in the whole chart, and easily the most angular).

4. More widely angular (filling in the gaps on details and making their aspects important are natal Saturn near IC and transiting Sun on EP.

So the planets you are working with are natal Moon-Jupiter and some Saturn, and transiting Mercury-Mars-Jupiter and Neptune, with some Sun.

Having identified the foreground planet and gotten a basic message from them, start concentrating on the aspects. Think of them in three groups: natal to natal (natal aspects, showing what you are bringing to the period either proactively or responsively), transit-to-transit (showing what the world is bringing into your life), and transit-to-natal (transits, showing the dynamic interaction of these).

So far, we would have identified the most important "clumps" as transiting Neptune square natal Moon-Jupiter (the most angular, most important, biggest deal) and transiting Mercury-Mars-Jupiter. These already give you most of the biggest details.

Then start looking for aspects you've missed. In case your eyes didn't catch it along the way, this is where you are going to discover the close foreground transit of Mars to your Saturn, barely more than a degree apart ecliptically. (The fact that it is only 0°31' mundanely isn't that important to know when it's already 1°07' ecliptically.)

This covers most of the stuff in the list. There are only a few other things to catch up on, as we widen orbs out to the 5° that seems appropriate for solunars aspects. Moon opposes the transiting Mercury-Jupiter as well, though at a less-acute (wider) orb. Here are the things still left to notice and "fill in the gaps," mostly from ecliptical aspects:

1. Transiting Mercury-Jupiter squares transiting Neptune, taking orbs out to 5° for angular planets (which I do in solunars). Notice this means that they are thus aspecting both Neptune and Mars, the former more widely and the latter closely.

2. Since (1) t Mars is exactly on your Saturn, (2) t Neptune is exactly on your Moon-Jupiter, (3) transiting Mercury-Jupiter is more widely on your Moon-Jupiter, and (4) t Mars is in exact paran to t Mercury-Jupiter, you can be pretty sure that all the cross-aspects are there: Mars also squares your Moon-Jupiter, Mercury-Jupiter squares your Saturn, etc.

It does take paying attention and thinking this through but, once you get the angularities right, the rest falls into patterns pretty easily.

Thank you for laying this out for me, I'm going to use this as a template for future returns!

Jim Eshelman wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:43 am Finally - especially transiting Neptune is square an exactly angular natal Moon! - it's important to remember the wisest afterthought astrologers routinely have about their charts:

The good stuff is almost never quite as good, nor the bad stuff quite as bad, as they seem on paper. Life is mostly ordinary and goes on the way it is. The charts general direction and "tip" of conditions will be accurate, but most people's lives only rarely have extreme events. Therefore, don't assume that what the chart shows will be an extreme event, good or bad.

Absolutely great advice, very important for us to all keep in mind. I thought this month's SLR was going to be devastating due to an angular Saturn but things aren't that bad at all, a little rocky here and there, maybe a bit more than usual, but not as bad I thought at first!

Sotonye asked:

Does the transit by Neptune take on different meaning since it's angular in my SLR?

No, only a more pronounced ‘themed’ meaning (whatever that may be) since it is on an auxiliary angle (the nadir) and is partile 90 your moon which is on an angle, the Dsc. Somewhat rare to see two planets on the angles of a SLR partile 90 each other. Ebertin offers for the ‘Principle’ (theme) of Moon-Neptune:

Subconscious phenomena, a refined sense of feeling.

And then as an important sub-theme is the foreground partile cnj of Mercury-Jupiter which Ebertin offers as the ‘Principle for this combo:’

Sound common sense, the intellect.

Again, offering lots to do with mental activity with Mercury involved angular in the SLR.
I think Jim offers great counsel by saying ‘things are seldom as good or as bad as you think they will be.’ This probably applies more so since there is high probability this has to do with ‘subconscious phenomena,’ or more so with mental activity, instead of an outward incident/event. But still, this SLR is classified as an ‘outstanding incident’ SLR. My best guess something happens with your mental thoughts which becomes important to you relative to the circumstances in your immediate environment. This SLR could manifest as an important mental realization covering a wide range of experiences going on with your life, only TIME knows for sure.

SteveS wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:40 am No, only a more pronounced ‘themed’ meaning (whatever that may be) since it is on an auxiliary angle (the nadir) and is partile 90 your moon which is on an angle, the Dsc. Somewhat rare to see two planets on the angles of a SLR partile 90 each other. Ebertin offers for the ‘Principle’ (theme) of Moon-Neptune:

Subconscious phenomena, a refined sense of feeling.

Hmmm JSAD mentioned once that she really feels transits when the transiting planets are angular in an SLR, is this an example of what she meant? Also, how important are auxiliary angles in solunar returns? And is the Ebertin quote from the combination of stellar influences? I really like that guy and his book

And then as an important sub-theme is the foreground partile cnj of Mercury-Jupiter which Ebertin offers as the ‘Principle for this combo:’

Sound common sense, the intellect.

Again, offering lots to do with mental activity with Mercury involved angular in the SLR.

This is going to be interesting, two partile aspects forming, both of which are angular. I've never observed an SLR like this before since I'm still pretty new to this all, so I'm going to pay special attention

I think Jim offers great counsel by saying ‘things are seldom as good or as bad as you think they will be.’ This probably applies more so since there is high probability this has to do with ‘subconscious phenomena,’ or more so with mental activity, instead of an outward incident/event.

I really like your understanding of Solunars being mostly mental. States of mind that would otherwise appear a bit rough become easier when you frame it like that, and this has helped me a lot this month, I've had Saturn rather close to an angle

But still, this SLR is classified as an ‘outstanding incident’ SLR. My best guess something happens with your mental thoughts which becomes important to you relative to the circumstances in your immediate environment. This SLR could manifest as an important mental realization covering a wide range of experiences going on with your life, only TIME knows for sure.

Oof, I'm excited

sotonye wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:46 pm

SteveS wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:40 am Ebertin offers for the ‘Principle’ (theme) of Moon-Neptune:

Subconscious phenomena, a refined sense of feeling.

FWIW my Principle for Moon-Neptune is "Sensitive, vulnerable, instinct to lose oneself in others."

Also, how important are auxiliary angles in solunar returns?

Zenith, Nadir, EP, and WP are essentially as important as Asc, MC, Dsc, IC, except they have tigher, more concentrated orb. Within their orbs, no difference in effect.

...Mercury-Jupiter which Ebertin offers as the ‘Principle for this combo:’

Sound common sense, the intellect.

FWIW my Principle for Mercury-Jupiter is "Advantage of intellect, quality mind, success with words."

Jim wrote:

FWIW my Principle for Moon-Neptune is "Sensitive, vulnerable,

Indeed! Ebertin says for 'Psychological Correspondence:'

Sensitivity...

Ebertin says for a possible tone of Moon-Neptune:

The danger of being exposed to peculiar and strange influences or being exploited by other people.

sotonye wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:46 pm Hmmm JSAD mentioned once that she really feels transits when the transiting planets are angular in an SLR, is this an example of what she meant?

Yup. Angular planets only change the ease with which they are expressed in your life. They mean the same, but it's like turning up the volume so you can hear the melody as well as the beat.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:28 pm Zenith, Nadir, EP, and WP are essentially as important as Asc, MC, Dsc, IC, except they have tigher, more concentrated orb. Within their orbs, no difference in effect.

Ah okay thank you. The maximum allowable orb is 2° for those angles yes? Also is there a way to get them to appear in solar fire?

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:30 pm Yup. Angular planets only change the ease with which they are expressed in your life. They mean the same, but it's like turning up the volume so you can hear the melody as well as the beat.

Hello there, I see hmm, I like the sound of this thank you. I'm not sure I've really been able to distinguish the feeling of Neptune's square to my Moon since it began but, since it will be angular, I'll be able to feel it plainly, and this is interesting and a bit scary too. I'm excited to use this method to determin special transits in the future

sotonye wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:20 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:28 pm Zenith, Nadir, EP, and WP are essentially as important as Asc, MC, Dsc, IC, except they have tigher, more concentrated orb. Within their orbs, no difference in effect.

Ah okay thank you. The maximum allowable orb is 2° for those angles yes? Also is there a way to get them to appear in solar fire?

2° is preferred, but EP/WP + squares to Asc can go as far as 3° (those are just weaker angularities: mundane work confirms that within 2° for these angles is about equal to 3° for horizon and meridian, then the curve is a steep drop, so 3° for them is in the 7-10° range of strength for horizon and meridian.

Squares to MC seem only to go to 2°. They're quite potent in 1-2° range, but seem to fall off a cliff after that.

So far this SLR seems to have sensitized me to stellar influences in particular, and to everything else in general, which seems to be the work of the partile conjuntion of the Moon with the Dsc. Transits have been more palpable, more thoroughly felt, and I've also been more vulnerable to the words of others, both positive and otherwise. Additionally I've been far more irritable, which I attribute to Mars being angular. At first, on the day my SLR began, I had felt a very deep impatience which I thought was due maybe to being tired or hungry, or that maybe I just needed to work out, all of which I promptly executed, but all to no effect interestingly! This persisted for several days until I recalled the influences I'm dealing with for the month. What's most interesting to me is that the influences described above are some that I have natally, so I get to see what they really feel like, and I'm thinking now that the aspects I have to the Moon really help mitigate what would otherwise be an oversensitivity and a deep, intolerable impatience. "You seem a little aggrevated today, like you don't have any patience," my mom noted on Christmas Eve. She was right, and I was just glad that I'm not that way all of the time, and in order not to be that way now I've decided to go on a fast to improve mood, which so far has helped more than anything. At any rate, the Mercury-Jupiter conjunction I was initially excited about seems to be a small part of this SLR, only manifesting so far as an easier time conjuring up the words needed to make progress on a new short story. And this all more or less sums everything up

Thanks for the feedback sotonye.

SteveS wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:33 pm Thanks for the feedback sotonye.

Of course!

Sense of wellbeing is very low as of right now. Currently in the ER because of persistent dizziness and troubles with cognition. This SLR isn't going well

I had previous cognitive troubles which I finally recovered from recently, and it's really sad to go through something similar again. It was definitely the worst thing to ever happen to me, and it's a crushing weight to lose what I've regained. Last time it was due to a simple b12 deficiency, I couldn't remember anything and couldn't make out the meaning of words, I almost failed my classes then. This time similar symptoms are due to sudden heart issues and I wish more than anything that this didn't happen

sotonye wrote:

Currently in the ER because of persistent dizziness and troubles with cognition. This SLR isn't going well

Sotonye, fwiw, Ebertin offers for the "Biological Correspondence" for Moon-Neptune, which was the 'outstanding incident' theme in your SLR:

A paralyzed blood-circulation, an over-balance or an over accumulation of water in the tissues of the body, a deficiency of the osmotic functions relating to the utilization of the cell- salts (a disturbance of consciousness or awareness, also a break in consciousness; eye-diseases).

sotonye wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:05 am I had previous cognitive troubles which I finally recovered from recently, and it's really sad to go through something similar again. It was definitely the worst thing to ever happen to me, and it's a crushing weight to lose what I've regained. Last time it was due to a simple b12 deficiency, I couldn't remember anything and couldn't make out the meaning of words, I almost failed my classes then. This time similar symptoms are due to sudden heart issues and I wish more than anything that this didn't happen

Really sorry to hear you have to go through this

You knew from early on that this wouldn't be the kindest of SLRs. At the same time, I don't thin you can lay everything on that. A lot of stuff is hitting simultaneously and (for example) the Mars progression to your natal Mercury-Pluto is exactly descriptive of cognitive or neurological afflictions and a lot of the secondary phenomena you describe. Having this at the same time Neptune transits exactly square your Moon is quite consistent with debilitating conditions, especially of the sort your described.

Take Neptune square your Jupiter as "deflated hopes, unreasonable optimism," etc. Also be aware that Jupiter-Neptune combinations are traditionally "false diagnosis." I'm dealing with one of those myself - important test results due Friday when I have a splendidly upbeat SLR with Venus joining Jupiter-Neptune. My one concern in the whole matter is that I'll get really good news that later turns out to be wrong. I'm not going to worry about it too much, though - I'll take the good news from one of the best doctors at what is probably the best hospital in the world, and deal with any "oops" moments later if they show up.

You'll also have Saturn transiting square your Venus right now. This is likely the "heart-sick" feeling you are reporting with your disappointment.

Overall, the good news I can give you is that all of this is happening like clockwork - it's not mysterious, not out of synch with the most obvious chart factors. That means that it will play out its course in a predictable time frame as part of the general unfolding of your life. Being aligned with the universe is a good thing!

SteveS wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:08 am Sotonye, fwiw, Ebertin offers for the "Biological Correspondence" for Moon-Neptune, which was the 'outstanding incident' theme in your SLR:

A paralyzed blood-circulation, an over-balance or an over accumulation of water in the tissues of the body, a deficiency of the osmotic functions relating to the utilization of the cell- salts (a disturbance of consciousness or awareness, also a break in consciousness; eye-diseases).

This is rough, but also very accurate. I was hoping the other positive chart symbolism would balance all of this out but it definitely hasn't!

Sotonye wrote:

This is rough, but also very accurate. I was hoping the other positive chart symbolism would balance all of this out but it definitely hasn't!

Also, it should be noted, even more so now with hindsight, SLR Mars 1,07 cnj your foreground natal Saturn. Jim teaches our tight foreground natal planets clues us in on how we will "react" to the influences in the return chart itself, and we can now obviously see a clear Mars-Saturn reaction. But with your partile 180 Moon-Jupiter on the horizon of your natal, whenever you have a SLR Moon on a SLR angles as in this 'outstanding incident' SLR, you will always carry that protected Jupiter symbolism with you and your angular Moon SLR'S. Let's look for improvement in your immediate environment, once you clear this current SLR.

As a reminder, here is the full breakdown of your SLR.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:34 am t Moon on Dsc +0°44' (r Moon +0°33')
r Jupiter on Asc -1°17'
t Neptune sq. Asc -1°28'
t Jupiter on Asc +3°12'
t Mercury on Asc +3°51'
t Mars on IC +3°55'
r Saturn on IC +4°26'
t Sun on EP -2°28'

t Mercury-Mars sq. 0°05' in mundo
t Mercury-Jupiter conj. 0°10'
t Neptune sq. r Moon 0°10'
t Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°21'
t Mars conj. r Saturn 0°31' in mundo
t Mercury sq. r Saturn 0°31' in mundo
t Mars-Jupiter sq. 0°43' in mundo
r Moon-Jupiter op. 0°44' in mund
t Jupiter sq. r Saturn 1°14' in mundo
t Jupiter op. r Moon 2°39' in mundo
t Moon-Mercury op. 3°07' in mundo
---------------------------------------------------
t Moon-Mars sq. 3°11' in mundo
r Jupiter-Saturn sq. 3°53' in mundo
r Moon-Saturn sq. 3°53' in mundo
t Jupiter-Neptune sq. 4°21'
t Jupiter conj. r Jupiter 4°29' in mundo
t Mercury-Neptune sq. 4°32'

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:58 am You knew from early on that this wouldn't be the kindest of SLRs. At the same time, I don't thin you can lay everything on that. A lot of stuff is hitting simultaneously and (for example) the Mars progression to your natal Mercury-Pluto is exactly descriptive of cognitive or neurological afflictions and a lot of the secondary phenomena you describe. Having this at the same time Neptune transits exactly square your Moon is quite consistent with debilitating conditions, especially of the sort your described.

I knew there'd be some rough points in this SLR but had hoped that the Mercury-Jupiter presence would save me a bit, and things did seem good for a few weeks, there was a subtlety of mind that I hadn't experienced for years present during that time, and I made great progress on a deeply challenging short story then as well. But I suppose I underestimated the Malefic symbolism

Take Neptune square your Jupiter as "deflated hopes, unreasonable optimism," etc. Also be aware that Jupiter-Neptune combinations are traditionally "false diagnosis." I'm dealing with one of those myself - important test results due Friday when I have a splendidly upbeat SLR with Venus joining Jupiter-Neptune. My one concern in the whole matter is that I'll get really good news that later turns out to be wrong. I'm not going to worry about it too much, though - I'll take the good news from one of the best doctors at what is probably the best hospital in the world, and deal with any "oops" moments later if they show up.

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through a Jupiter-Neptune experience as well, but I am happy that you have the best doctor, and since you seem confident I feel confident that everything will be alright, I feel that things are under control. Also the addition of Venus in your case might cause the whole thing to run out better than expected

You'll also have Saturn transiting square your Venus right now. This is likely the "heart-sick" feeling you are reporting with your disappointment.

I was hoping that the simultaneous opposition of Jupiter to my Moon and conjunction with natal Jupiter would attenuate the effects of Saturn, but all I've really felt is Saturn. I think the symbolism here characterizes what I'm feeling perfectly, my joy has taken a hit. I'm suspicious that Malefic transits are more easily felt that anything else, and it would make sense at least evolutionarily, since we've evolved to have a negativity bias. I hope the Jupiter symbolism presents itself soon though, I need it

Overall, the good news I can give you is that all of this is happening like clockwork - it's not mysterious, not out of synch with the most obvious chart factors. That means that it will play out its course in a predictable time frame as part of the general unfolding of your life. Being aligned with the universe is a good thing!

Yes I agree with you here, there has never been a time when chart symbolism did not correspond with events and that's useful

SteveS wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:11 pm Also, it should be noted, even more so now with hindsight, SLR Mars 1,07 cnj your foreground natal Saturn. Jim teaches our tight foreground natal planets clues us in on how we will "react" to the influences in the return chart itself, and we can now obviously see a clear Mars-Saturn reaction. But with your partile 180 Moon-Jupiter on the horizon of your natal, whenever you have a SLR Moon on a SLR angles as in this 'outstanding incident' SLR, you will always carry that protected Jupiter symbolism with you and your angular Moon SLR'S. Let's look for improvement in your immediate environment, once you clear this current SLR.

This is the best example I possibly could have had of how Natal planets factor into returns, I'm surprised at how potent this turned out to be, I wasn't expecting much here and that was wrong. And as with Jupiter transit I'm currently experiencing right now, I haven't really felt the Moon-Jupiter presence in this return unfortunately, I think the symbolism has been eclipsed

My next SLR looks worse with both transiting Saturn and Mars in the foreground and squaring one another. Without any benefic influences im not sure how I'll survive that one

My next SLR looks worse with both transiting Saturn and Mars in the foreground and squaring one another. Without any benefic influences im not sure how I'll survive that one

yes, I did not look at your next SLR, and a double whammy of Mars-Venus, keep us informed and you will survive. Excellent SLR examples sotonye, unfortunately some harsh symbolism.

One planet doesn't cancel another. Rather, symbolusm of both needs expression.

Here's another way to find the primary "voice" of the SLR: Below, I list all foreground aspects, cutting them off at 3° to prioritize the strongest factors over smaller details. They are more or less listed strongest-to-weakest, but emphasizing natural groupings. Read them from top to bottom, building your case as you go, i.e., draw your first impression from the first aspect, then add the whole first group and make it fit within that first impression, and so on. This kind of orderly approach helps us keep a sense of priority, of what factors are strongest and, therefore, shape the main narrative.

t Mercury-Mars sq. 0°05'
t Mercury-Jupiter conj. 0°10'
t Mars-Jupiter sq. 0°43'

r Moon-Jupiter op. 0°44'

t Neptune sq. r Moon 0°10', r Jupiter 0°21'
t Mars conj. r Saturn 0°31'
-- t Mercury sq. r Saturn 0°31' (r Moon 3°07')
t Jupiter sq. r Saturn 1°14', op. r Moon 2°39'

sotonye wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:31 pm ...in this SLR ...things did seem good for a few weeks, there was a subtlety of mind that I hadn't experienced for years present during that time, and I made great progress on a deeply challenging short story then as well.

What does "for a few week" mean? Does it, perhaps, mean for two weeks? Because we then have to consider your January 3 Demi-SLR, which would have been felt by the wee hours of January 2.

Its strongest features are"
1. t Venus conj. r Pluto (partile) very close to Asc
2. r Mars sq. Asc (near-partile)

Here is the full breakdown:

r Mars sq. Asc +1°06'
r Pluto on Asc -2°06'
t Venus on Asc -2°23'
-- t Pluto conj. r Pluto 0°17' in mundo
r Mercury on Dsc -9°01'

t Moon-Jupiter conj. 0°06' in mundo
t Moon-Neptune sq. 0°24'

Background influences
r Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°07'
t Neptune sq. r Moon 0°24'
t Sun sq. r Venus 0°11'

SteveS wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:41 pm yes, I did not look at your next SLR, and a double whammy of Mars-Venus, keep us informed and you will survive. Excellent SLR examples sotonye, unfortunately some harsh symbolism.

Will keep you informed, and hopefully I will survive lol

I survived I guess. Fasted for around 18 days to get back to feeling like myself. These last two SLRs were brutal and the consecutive transits by Saturn did not help one bit. I really hate that planet, I would like him to leave me alone

I understand completely Sotonye. Good to see you back and surviving.

SteveS wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:18 am I understand completely Sotonye. Good to see you back and surviving.

Haha thank you Steve, good to be back