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Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:00 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Over time, I've moved more toward reading mundane aspects in Lunar Returns much the same as I do in ingresses. This is obvious enough when it is a tight mundane aspect on the angles - a paran, in other words - which would be possible to interpret as not necessarily important as a mundane aspect per se; but including others, too.
I'm taking time out to run through a bunch of charts, starting with U.S. presidents who have died in office (and similar leaders) to see what pops up. I'll post examples here of the better examples I come across.
First one up: President WIlliam McKinley for his murder by gunshot. His August 27, 1901 shows death (or something like it) well enough with Pluto precisely setting opposite a rising Uranus. It's complicated by Jupiter on EP, opposite Neptune on WP, both square Venus near MC. There is death, surprise, upset, overthrowing (and perhaps honoring?), but no violence as such. (Venus-Neptune aspects are common for murders.)
Except the mundoscope shows Moon square Mars 0°41' in the middleground. Moon-Mars aspects are stand-outs in mundane charts for such shootings and on-target for being the recipient of this kind of violence. It's a clean score.
BTW, this chart is a good example of why I think trines and sextiles are worthless in SLRs (besides my recent formal study of aspects in Joe Louis' SLRs for his winning fights). Just going by angular planets, we do have some Jupiter-Venus on angles but it's not the strongest thing - it's lesser than the partile angular Pluto opposite nearly-partile angular Uranus. But if we counted trines as important, we'd have Sun and Mercury partile trine Jupiter while Moon was in 2° trine to culminating Venus. These would have surely tipped the scales toward this being a mostly benefic chart, albeit surprising. I don't think Pres. McKinley saw it that way.
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:32 pm
by Jim Eshelman
President Garfield was shot under similar angularities and an equally impressive Moon mundane aspect (though this time foreground). In his June 22, 1881 SLR 10 days before being shot, the mundoscope shows:
Uranus 1°48' past MC
--------------------------
Pluto 6°51' past Dsc
Moon 7°21' past Dsc
Interestingly, he had several of the McKinley aspects, but background so not really worth attention. They are Venus conjunct Jupiter, square Neptune (partile or nearly so in mundo). Though background, they are in reasonable orb (3-5°) of conjunct Moon. (The chart has other violence indicators, like t Saturn op. r Mars 0°51'). Setting Pluto opposes his rising natal Sun-Mercury closely, and natal Saturn is on MC. (I haven't calculated it, but there likely is a mundane Sun-Saturn square on MC-Asc.)
When he died two and a half months later, the new SLR had Mars partile conj. Descendant. BTW, I've looked at four president deaths in the last few minutes and three of the SLRs had 9th house Suns. At first I thought that (if anything) this showed that McKinley and Harding died while travelling but, more simply, these are all cases of very classicbackground Sun behavior, i.e., their deaths were partly a consequence of their vitality and resiliency giving out, especially with Harding and Garfield.
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:41 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Another interesting mundane Moon aspect: In Harvey Milk's SLR before his murder, Moon opposed Saturn 2°40' in mundo even though they are 6° apart ecliptically. There is plenty else in the chart to show the event, but does anyone doubt the Moon-Saturn opposition is seriously descriptive?
The Dei-SLR was more severe with Moon square Mars-Neptune on the angles. Moon-Mars is 1°56', Moon-Neptune 0°46' ecliptically - which is great! - but they're even closer in mundo, 1°03' and 0°18' respectively.
George Moscone didn't need a mundane aspect for this: His SLR four days before he and Milk were shot has a 0°02' Moon-Saturn conjunction ecliptically, and it squares Mars-Neptune 3-4°. This is important despite the fact hat it is background. These are the most important things in the chart, since nothing is foreground (except Venus, which is not close).
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:45 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Similarly, FDR's death from natural causes occurred with a 3°04' Moon-Saturn square - like Moscone's it is background, in the 6th house, and also square Neptune closely (like Moscone). However, as this was not a murder, there is no Mars in the mix.
The mundane Moon-Saturn conjunction is almost exactly the same orb, 3°00', but Moon is also square Venus. (Venus squares Saturn 0°10' in mundo.)
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:50 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Abraham Lincoln keeps the Moon-Saturn trend going: His final SLR has a 1°04' Moon-Saturn square, once more in the background (Moon on 9th cusp) - the Sidereal founders' assertion that background afflicted luminaries are bad for health seemed to know what they are talking about. The key angularity is Pluto square MC 0°26' and conjunct Asc 0°13'. Famously, his natal Saturn-Neptune conjunction is exactly setting. (If I calculated that carefully, I imagine t Pluto would be op. r Saturn within minutes, in mundo.)
In the Demi-SLR, Moon-Saturn was only 0°12' wide (ecliptical).
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:29 pm
by Jim Eshelman
I guess this thread isn't staying so concentrated on it subject line as I thought, because I'm wandering around a lot. One thing that's jumped out is the frequency of Moon with malefics - and, actually, with Saturn most of all - for death. Moving away from political leaders, I found another.
Gus Grissom died in the Apollo 1 fire under a January 8, 1967 SLR. A rising Sun partile square Mars (Sun-Mars is 0°00' wide - exact to the minute! - though Sun is 4° off Ascendant and Mars isn't angular at all). Additionally, though, we again have a background Moon (12th cusp) square Saturn (4°), Uranus (4°), and Pluto (0°11'). Mundane does not make it closer.
There's also a seemingly unfitting close Venus-Jupiter opposition foreground.
The Demi-SLR has Neptune exactly angular and a little Venus. Neptune is on natal Saturn on IC. - Moon squares Pluto 0°00' and Uranus 4° ecliptically. Mundane is roughly the same (not quite as close). - The rest is a mixture of the same planets in the natal, with natal Neptune rising (square transiting Neptune 1°15'), natal Venus-Saturn square on angles (seemingly much like the transiting equivalent for fires), etc.
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:34 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Roger Chaffee died in the same fire. His SLR two days earlier has Uranus-Pluto near MC opposite Saturn near IC, but none of them closer than about 7°. The aspects are closer mundane than ecliptical. - Moon squares Mars 2°08' ecliptically and 2°10' mundanely.
In pretty much all of these charts where death occurred as something happening to the person, Moon aspects are quite important, while Sun aspects are of little interest (often absent).
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Edward White died in the same fire. His SLR nearly a month earlier had Mars square Asc. (1°31'). There's not much else, certainly not much that's close. A widely foreground Sun conjoins his Saturn 0°47' and these widely tie into the Mars, but it doesn't really look like a big event month.
The Demi is of no help whatsoever. These are a bit weak, though the SLR is accurate as far as it goes. Nor is the new SLR less than 24 hours later the key (Neptune on natal Sun rising, but that's about it).
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:53 pm
by Jim Eshelman
So the next question in my mind is whether those who create death as an act-of-self (murderers) show more Sun involvement and less Moon involvement, compared to those on whom death is visited.
Richard Speck's night of murder and other despicable deeds seems to say "yes" to this question. His SLR almost an entire month before has a surprisingly positive (overbearing?) Moon-Jupiter conjunction at MC but the background (9th house) Sun is 1°15' from square Saturn. Also background, but excruciatingly close, a 0°09' Uranus-Pluto conjunction squares Mars within half a degree - we're not used to seeing SLRs force even partile aspects to operate this strongly when so extremely background.
The SLR has several Saturn partile transits to the natal, opposing his Neptune 0°44' and within minutes of his natal Descendant and Westpoint, and square his MC. Therefore, that exact Saturn to his Neptune (on natal angles) is squared by Sun. (Aha! It's background in the SLR but foreground in his natal. Does this hold up? We'll watch for it.) Also, natal Mars is exactly setting (partile). There's a lot going on in this chart.
His Demi-SLR is not impressive. A partile Full Moon falls in the immediate background, Moon on 3rd cusp, Sun and Jupiter on 9th. They don't really aspect anything. Mercury is widely angular.
Saturn is still in partile opposition to his Neptune and on his natal angles. Uranus and Pluto partile square his Jupiter (morals a little out of whack with convention>?). Mercury conjoins his Pluto 0°08' - what intimate communication did he have with his victims?
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:08 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Charles Whitman committed the Austin tower murders under a two-week old SLR with Mars on IC (0°56') square Saturn on Asc (1°05'). Their ecliptical square is about 4°, their mundane square half that at 2°01.Pluto is also 1°19' from Descendant, square Mars 0°23' and opposite Saturn 2°24' mundanely - these aspects don't even exist ecliptically.
The SLR is filled with ore than a little horror.
Moon (distantly foreground) is widely tied into it by square to Saturn 3°. Moon also squares Uranus 0°51' mundanely.
Whitman had been watching himself go insane. He was able to witness the compulsions taking over him due (it was learned after his death) to a brain tumor. He brutally murdered his mother and wife the night before the Austin tower shootings to save them from having to face the consequences of his actions and to put them outside of life's problems. (He was insane.) We see the pressures and the violence in the Mars-Saturn-Pluto, but the ripening sense of insanity I think is seen in another mundane aspect in the SLR: Middleground Sun squares Neptune 1°01', an aspect that doesn't exist in the horoscope.
In the SLR, Mars conjoins his Sun 0°43', tightly conjunct IC. (This means that Saturn and Pluto are closely mundane square natal Sun, though I haven't worked it out finely.)
His Demi-SLR occurred three days before all of these events. Venus and Mars are conjoined, straddling Descendant. (Venus is 2°27' below Dsc, Mars 1°14' above it. Here is both the gentle love for mother and wife and the knife that stabbed their hearts until they died, with Mars closer to the angle than Venus.)
Moon, not Sun, has the key ecliptical aspect: Moon is background (12th) square background Saturn 2°42'.
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:15 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Jim Jones' SLR a week before he led a thousand people to their deaths in Jonestown has a Sun-Uranus conjunction just below Descendant, Sun and Mars being the only planets technically foreground (and both are wide). Moon is widely (almost 5°) opposite Pluto. There's not that much in the SLR as a stand-alone chart besides a picture of Jones as a leader (angular Sun conjunct Uranus, mundanely square Jupiter).
His natal Jupiter-Uranus are important, too: Transiting Pluto squares them, 0°14' and 1°51', respectively. They are all quite background, but the aspect is quite strong.
Ah, here it is - his "act of self" aspect: Natal Mars was on SLR IC squared by t Uranus 0°04' and t Sun 2°14'. The "self taking affirmative action" of the SLR was this commanding, barely foreground Sun accentuating the exact Uranus square to his Mars on IC.
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:53 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Going back to the original title of this thread, I'm now going to do the rather tedious donkey work of checking something where I don't think we know the answer.
We do know that partile ecliptical transits in a lunar return are "live" and valid. They matter even if they are not foreground. Their meaning may change according to how angular they are, but not their efficacy.
As a critical test of the validity of mundane aspects in lunar returns, I'm now going to check partile in mundo conjunctions, oppositions, and squares from SLR (transiting) planets to natal planets when they are NOT foreground. It's the parallel or SLR partile transits aspects ecliptically. I'll exclude any aspects that are also partile ecliptically. Let's see if they work.
By pure chance there should be almost 2 such non-foreground mundane conjunctions, oppositions, or squares at any time. I already see that there are a lot of charts that don't have any. The burden, as always, is on the accuracy of the planetary symbolism.
Charts with no partile mundane transits
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:02 pm
by Jim Eshelman
William McKinley for murder - none
Bobby Kennedy for murder - none
Martin Luther King, Jr. - murder - none (though several exact, striking foreground ones)
John Kennedy - none (though Uranus on r Moon exactly on Dsc is impressive)
Lee Harvey Oswald - JFK murdered - none
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:07 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Warren G. Harding, death
t Jupiter conj. r Sun 0°09'
LOL, leave it to Harding, whose death is one of the worst all-round astrological events natally and mundanely, to have a totally ill-fitting aspect!
Richard Nixon - resignation
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:14 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Uranus sq. r Pluto 0°44'
This is entirely fitting.
Mohandas Gandhi - murder
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:22 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Neptune sq. r Uranus 0°03'
Though very exact, it isn't clear what this transit means or how it fits the event.
Though outside the present study, there is a noteworthy mundane square to t Pluto to r Pluto about 1° and a Moon-Saturn conjunction opposite Mercury - all foreground. But there are no aspects other than Neptune-Uranus that fit the current inquiry.
James Garfield shot & killed
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:44 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR (shot):
t Saturn op. r Mars 0°17'
Exactly right!
SLR (died):
t Sun sq. r Sun 0°27' (exactly on cadent cusps)
t Venus op. r Uranus 0°07' [also ecliptical]
t Venus sq. r Mars 0°36'
t Pluto sq. r Saturn 0°57'
I accept these as descriptive.
Harvey Milk - murdered
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:50 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Saturn sq. r Saturn 0°08'
I take this as an adequate hit. (It could mean many other things, but it certainly can mean what happened.)
George Moscone - murdered
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:55 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Sun conj. r Sun 1°01'
t Sun conj. r Mercury 0°54'
t Pluto sq. r Pluto 0°03'
These are at least adequate and, with the last one, are fitting.
Franklin D. Roosevelt - died
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:59 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Mars conj. r Mercury 0°22'
t Mars sq. r Pluto 0°20'
r Mercury-Mars sq. 0°42'
Considering that he died of a cerebral hemorrhage, this is spectacular!
Abraham Lincoln - murdered
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:04 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Mercury conj. r Venus 0°16'
As a supplemental aspect, it probably refers to the theater. I accept this as, at the very least, not contradictory. (The foreground mundane aspects were quite stunning with t Pluto rising op. r Saturn-Neptune straddling Descendant.)
Gus Grisson - APollo 1 fire
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:10 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°16'
t Saturn op. r Uranus 0°55'
t Mercury op. r Pluto 0°48' [borderline foreground, maybe shouldn't use]
I have no idea if the first one fits, but the second one does, and the one borderline aspect.
There is also a Demi-SLR. At the moment, I'm only doing full lunars.
Roger Chaffee - Apollo 1 fire
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:18 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Mars sq. r Moon 0°07'
t Mars conj. r Mars 0°10' [also partile ecliptically, but part of a pattern here]
r Moon-Mars sq. 0°17'
t Neptune sq. r Saturn 0°18'
t Jupiter sq. r Uranus 0°36' [also partile ecliptically]
t Moon conj. r Pluto 0°35'
These are awesome!
Richard Speck - the murders
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:36 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Pluto sq. r Jupiter 0°30' [exactly on cadent cusps]
t Saturn op. r Neptune 0°58' [also partile ecliptically]
Nothing distinctive to this study is sufficiently persuasive, though neither is it contradictory. (I just don't know if Pluto to his Jupiter is fitting.)
There was an intervening Demi-SLR that should be checked at some point.
Neil Armstrong - Moon launch
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:46 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Mercury conj. r Mars 0°25' [Also partile ecliptically]
t Uranus sq. r Mars 0°10'
t Mercury-Uranus sq. 0°15'
t Sun op. r Saturn 0°45' [Also partile ecliptically]
Although the Mercury transit to Mars also exists ecliptically, the whole pattern, especially the identified Mercury-Uranus mundane square to his natal planet, is more complex and quite excellent. This is quite good.
There was an intervening Demi-SLR.
John Glenn - Friendship 7 launch
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:54 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Sun op. r Neptune 0°12' [Also partile ecliptically]
Nothing shows. (I'll mention that the foreground planets in aspect are quite exceptional; but that's something we already know to expect.)
There was an intervening Demi-SLR
Jim Jones - Jonestown
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:59 pm
by Jim Eshelman
SLR:
t Pluto sq. r Saturn 0°00'
t Mercury sq. r Neptune 0°40'
These are perfect! (In addition to the key aspect being 00'.)
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:00 am
by Jim Eshelman
Many more to check, but I'm running down for tonight. Picking this up tomorrow.
So far, they're doing pretty well!
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:45 am
by Jupiter Sets at Dawn
Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:08 pm
Whitman had been watching himself go insane. He was able to witness the compulsions taking over him due (it was learned after his death) to a brain tumor.
Oddly, the tumor, a form of glioblastoma, was called an astrocytoma because it was formed out of star shaped glial cells called astrocytes.
Re: Mundane Aspects in Lunar Returns
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:07 am
by Jim Eshelman