Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Hello members.
Thought I'd make a thread to keep track of my next few lunar returns to see if they describe what is happening as I am stepping the first steps on a whole new path after my breakup.

I've always said that they've rarely told me much of what's going on in my life. To me it is amazing to see that the current lunar return that started on June 1st did not describe what happened; breaking up a family and a relationship of 12 yrs. It does show up in transits, transits to natal and directed chart and in the SSR and in the TSR, which are both very separative. But it didn't show up in the sidereal lunar return. However the tropical return gives a hint with Uranus at 3,04° from DSC.

The next lunar return starts tomorrow.
SLR: Double Venus
SLR Venus at 27,27°, within 3° from ASC. Moon at 2° from EP.
No other planet within the 5° angularity... but Sun within 6° from ASC and Jup within 6°from DSC.
POF partile conj. IC and Snode partile conj. Saturn.
Natal Venus-Jup fall onto the SLR ASC-DSC.

TLR:
Uranus 1,48° from EP
Moon 2,13° from ASC
Jupiter 4,09 from DSC

Jup is partile opp n. Saturn and t. Saturn and t. nodes are partile n. MC.

Wow, it's been a month already (or, well, almost...).

I agree, the June 1 SLR was not what I would have expected, or normally would see. It's primary virtue seems to be that it does show a focus on relationship matters more than anything else which, of course, is exactly right but, then, doesn't seem to get the main point.

You do get the Uranus-Dsc in the SLR also. The three angularities (mundanely) are Moon 3°06' above Dsc, Venus 6°13' above, Uranus 7°06' below. Generally, though, you'd expect Moon-Venus-Uranus to be a lot more fun than you were having at the time, though, at the same time, it does have the right symbols for the event.

I've been noticing, too, that you seem pretty responsive to exact midpoints to angles formed by foreground planets. While Moon is the most angular planet, Venus 6°13' above and Uranus 7°06' have their midpoint 0°26' from Dsc. In some ways this is primarily a Moon-Venus chart (conj. 1°03' in eclipto), but in this other way it is primarily a Venus-Uranus chart.

I've also never settled into how important non-foreground Sun aspects are in SLRs. I went a long time saying (after Fagan) that the Sun in the SLR is as important as the Moon in an SSR - that Lunar Returns are read from "angles and Sun." But I eventually decided that I was putting way too much attention on Sun, that it really wasn't in the same level as angles. I think the balance is somewhere between the two extremes. I mention this because the June 1 SLR has an important middleground mundane aspect, Sun square Neptune 2°39' (from 7th to 4th FWIW).

Two other angular planets (natal planets) need mention. I could make cases for both of them, but they aren't so sharp that I could have told the exact event. Your Sun squares SLR Asc 0°51' and your Neptune squares SLR MC 1°08'.

I suppose (I think) that if I'd examined this in advance, I'd have forecast a much more fun time than you experienced. I would have correctly seen that it was primarily a relationship chart, with a Venus-Uranus basic nature, that you would have felt everything going on intensely (a characteristic of angular Moon solunars), that there would have been something of a maelstrom of emotions and a little chaos (which I probably would have misinterpreted in a more fun way, in an amusement park sort of way), and that you, while responding to circumstances powerfully were still primarily in the driver's seat.

That's probably all too vague to call it a hit. This won't get filed as one of my favorite SLR examples

The new June 29 SLR reminds me of my own current one. On first impression, it seems quite positive and happy-leaning.

Angular SLR planets are:
t Moon on EP 0°48'
t Venus 2°32' above Asc
t Sun 5°14' below Asc
t Jupiter 5°42' below Dsc

Moon and Venus are closest, Venus and Jupiter (or, rather, a nicely-aspected Venus) dominate with their 3°10' mundane opposition.

Natal planets are much more complex. Your Venus looks stronger ecliptically than it is (your natal Venus has some latitude so it's never quite as angular as it first looks), but the strongest factors are easily positive - but with a great deal of 'transformative' shift. In addition to the natal Moon on EP:

r Jupiter on Dsc 0°20' above
r Mercury on IC 2°20' west
r Pluto sq. Asc 1°11'
r Saturn on Asc 4°10' above
r Venus on Asc 5°07' below

Notice that t Sun is 5°14' below Asc and natal Venus 5°07' below - a 0°07' mundane conjunction that is quite nice.

While the emphasis on your natal Jupiter-Pluto probably shows some significant shifts in Jupiter matters, the whole seems civil, pleasurable, friendly, interesting, and (other than the natal Pluto) social. The exactly angular natal Jupiter and the "discovered" natal Mercury-Jupiter aspect (a 2°00' mundane square closely angular), it might even be a good business month; at least, a Mercury-Jupiter theme will be big.

So, transiting Moon and Venus backed by Sun and Jupiter with a big Venus-Jupiter aspect; then natal Moon, Mercury, Jupiter, Pluto (backed by Saturn and Venus) with natal Jupiter-Pluto and Mercury-Jupiter aspects highlighted. Transiting Sun conjoins natal Venus in mundo, transiting Venus opposes natal Jupiter as well as transiting Jupiter mundanely (half a degree from their midpoint).

As a final step, we check all partile aspects not mentioned. If not foreground, they are "background influences" that hang in the air a bit. You have four, one of which is crazy-making, one of which is weighty, one of which is relieving, and one of which is neutral. These should be expected not to dominate the SLR but to express within the general tone and framework established by the foreground planets.

t Saturn conj. r. MC 0°31'
t Neptune sq. r Saturn 0°35'
t Jupiter op. r Saturn 0°55'
t Mercury op. L MC 0°21'

Thanks Jim.
There is something that I will need to do now within days and I will inform this thread. I know that I will need to choose a day, preferably this week, for deep and authentic expression of true love to the core of my heart and being. It will not come easy, but it needs to be done. I was shown very clearly this weekend.

Based on your recent posts in the Club thread, it looks like this SLR is clicking right along

Yes indeed, this one seems to click for me

Ok, so now I've had this talk with authentic expression from the heart. I did my part and it happened on the solar eclipse day on July 2nd. Now he simply needs to either receive or reject that. I think he is in the digestive stage now. In the last couple of days I've also expressed to him that even though I asked him to move out and think we reached a bottom, that I am still ready to make a last attempt through some counselling. I simply think that is a better way to see if there is any common ground to work with or to make the separative path easier and I would also very much like to help him open is heart up a little bit. If a couple does not try to their fullest, I think there will be more regret in the future, lots of maybe we should have done this or that. So I simply think it is worth making that effort, no matter what the result will be.

So I am really trying my best to be honest and authentic in my expression and I try to do it lovingly so he understands that it is coming from the heart. He has so far reacted with his usual approach - and he has also said he thinks we already tried everything and it didn't work. He just thinks we need to be more active together and I don't think he fully gets what I am saying about the heart and expression of love. I don't think he will really get it in a deep way until he does a medicine retreat with me - which I've asked him to again and he says he will think about it but might never do. Nobody really understands the power of it before they actually experience it.

Also worth mentioning about this lunar return is the Jup-Nep square with Jup as an angular planet (although not partile) is that yesterday I called my father to tell him about this separation and his reaction was to put money (3000$) into my account cos he doesn't want me worrying about money. I did not ask for it, did not mention money because I don't really need it... but it is Jup-Nep symbolism "gain without effort".

Arena wrote:

Nobody really understands the power of it before they actually experience it.

It is very difficult to put into words where someone else truly understands. The understanding comes from one's own personal experience, only in the rigth set-setting. Back in the late 60's with my personal experience on LSD and Magic Mushrooms---it was the most powerful transformative experience in my entire life.

I think going to a marriage counselor is a fantastic idea! I actually wanted to suggest it before. In my marriage we went to counseling at two different points and both times it helped enormously. The first time was around 2006 and we went weekly for about half a year. I will admit that at that time I had very little children (both under 5) and was focused on him...ie.why are you drinking an 18pack everyday when we cant afford food?
The therapist gave us several assignments and many ideas and books to read and practices to do. She also recommended that I go to Al-anon meetings. I did everything she suggested for years.
The last time we went was after some utterly terrible revelations and behaviors that were.....to stressful for me to cope with on my own....after 6 weeks there and I thought progress and communication and efforts were being achieved....he in the middle of a sessions breaks out laughing and says he cant do this anymore, that its all a lie that he hasnt stopped using that he doesnt care to work anything out and he not only has been lying the whole time but secretly doing other things to sabatoge me.
And that was when I walked away, poker faced, went home, worked out an escape plan and then in a few months when the Universe provided the timing, We locked the door and told him to go do what he wanted to do and to not worry one bit about us.
Using a third party gives a way to not play psychological warfare on each other and let things air and fall as they may.
Its a two way street though. Its not a bitch session for one party to throw up all over the other, nor a time for one to drag kicking and screaming all the demons the other has out into the light.
Good luck and the best to you!!

No matter the result, I believe this counselor will be able to help us with communicating the issues that need attention in the upcoming months.

Lunar eclipse happens tonight. Just want to add it in here to keep a track of it, even though I am not sure lunar eclipses actually have an impact on our lives - this one might have an impact on mine since the Moon-Sun opposition falls onto my n. nodes and is accompanied by Pluto symbolising the loss/break/separation and then the Venus-Saturn opposition falls onto my MC/IC axis also symbolising the loss of love/separation. But the Venus-Saturn has my Uranus and his Mercury at its midpoint indicating that even though the separation will happen, he will perhaps go through the necessary communication. The Sun-Moon opposition has his n. Pluto at the midpoint ecliptically as well, a further indication of the split.

However, if I look at the lunar eclipse chart with its angles in Edinburgh I can also see a positive, I get help from Jupiter and double Mercury. The lunar eclipse Mercury partile conjunct l. IC and n. Mercury partile conj the lunar eclipse DSC with the POF conjunct as well. Lunar eclipse Jupiter is close to the MC of the chart and opposing my n. Saturn, but it is also sextile my Uranus and his Mercury.

Ebertin about Ven-Sat=Uranus:

A very tense love relationship, the desire to overcome inhibitions or obstacles in love suddenly. A very strong temporary infatuation, a quarrel between lovers, a sudden separation.

Ebertin about Sun-Moon=Nodes:

Associative and joint qualities, adaption. The commencement of an association, a contact, an association for the purpose of marriage.

IF lunar eclipses do really impact us (especially those whose angles are involved) then all in all this lunar eclipse chart in interaction with our natal chart seems to indicate the separation becoming permanent (at least for the next 6 months), but also that communication will take place and some benefic help from Jupiter.

Arena wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:58 am IF lunar eclipses do really impact us (especially those whose angles are involved) then all in all this lunar eclipse chart in interaction with our natal chart seems to indicate the separation becoming permanent (at least for the next 6 months), but also that communication will take place and some benefic help from Jupiter.

New Moons and Full Moons are (from the point of view of transits) simply extra-strong Sun transits. Eclipses (which are special-case New Moons or Full Moons) are then extra-extra-strong versions of the same, perhaps (many believe and it sometimes seems) with longer duration (weeks or longer instead of just a day or so).

So, tonight's lunar eclipse conjoins my Mars, which is an extra-extra-strong version of the annual transiting Sun opposite my Mars. Tomorrow might be an unusually marsy day for me. This may be hard to discern (in terms of the eclipse), though, since tomorrow is also when transiting Mars squares the exact conjunction of SSR Moon with my Saturn.

But you get the idea.

Those who think eclipses have extra-long duration have a couple of variations on how long that would be. There are old Ptolemy rules that I knew 40-50 years ago and haven't bothered to keep in my head - claiming months or years of effect, based on how long a total eclipse remains in totality. I have no confidence in these (and, in any case, they're pretty hard to confirm or disprove: if you can attribute anything for, say, the next three and a half years to one big shake-up transit, then you could make that mean anything at all). A more sensible standard was articulated by Bob Jansky who wrote the definitive book on solar eclipses in the 1970s: He said the effects of a solar eclipse last until the next solar eclipse, which usually is six months, and lunar eclipses have a shorter consequence of usually two weeks, in both cases the effect being limited to stirring up crisis in the natal house where the eclipse falls and any planet it partile conjoins or opposes. - I've often thought Bob's rule on duration was about right.

Traditional mundane astrologers use New Moon and Full Moon charts much as we use lunar and demi-lunar returns (or, for a better analogy, lunar ingesses). They generally take the duration of each to be two weeks, with some considering the New Moon has having a one-month effect and the Full Moon layering atop and gaining primacy for the second half of the month.

Anyway, I don't see this 29° Sagittarius eclipse hitting anything in your chart. The transit to the lunar nodes is outside partile range. If Jansky's basic premise is right (which I've thought it is, then other times doubted it), the main eclipse effect in your life right now is that the recent solar eclipse fell in your 1st house and therefore would be expect to stir up crisis - dramatically shifting conditions, prior decisions dismantled so they can be nade again, etc. - in 1st house matters.

Yes I do indeed hope there is nothing much to it. But I thought I'd make a record of it anyway.

The state I'm in right now is well described by Rumi:
"As you start to walk on the way, the way appears".

So what I am doing now is finding the next steps ahead into the planetary energies presented.
It will be interesting to see if our next counselling session will be more compassionate and understanding when the Sun with Ven-Mer will be around my rel. IC and Jupiter on the rel. DSC.

And it will be interesting to see how my next lunar return turns out with Venus partile on MC. Should be good.
But the tropical return does not have that, it shows Saturn about 5 from IC.

17 days to my birthday now.

Well, this lunar return is almost over... a new one is starting on Friday, the day after our next counselor session.

It certainly does not feel like this present one has t. Venus angular as in receiving love from other people - other than perhaps friendship and understanding from friends around me. However it fits with having Jupiter and Moon as in dealing with lots of emotions and doing so gracefully. My partner is still acting from anger and resentment - although he says he is not. Very fitting with the Mars-Mer that is better shown in the TLR. I am afraid that is going to continue since his next solar return has Mars-Neptune. However, I am still able to keep myself in the space of acting with love and compassion and understanding. I will do my best to keep myself there in order to have the least amount of regrets possible.

Friday 26th of July sidereal lunar return shows me a partile 0,40° angular Venus on MC. Venus is conjunct Mercury so hopefully some better communication is about to emerge. The other angular planet is the Sun which is 5,24° from MC on the other side.

However the tropical return shows no such thing. It simply has Saturn at 5,11° from the IC predicting a sad and difficult month ahead.

Both outcomes will still have the grace of t. Jupiter to help me get by since it is now moving closer to the rel. DSC and both of them have my natal Uranus close to the LR ASC. Maybe I will simply break free of even trying to help him. By the look of things right now if I speak realistically, the tropical LR Saturn sad outcome seems more likely. But I will keep my mind open and wait and see how things play out. My solar return will come into this lunar return. And by the look of things into both the sidereal SR and tropical SR it seems like it will be a pretty good year for me.

Arena wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:24 am It certainly does not feel like this present one has t. Venus angular as in receiving love from other people - other than perhaps friendship and understanding from friends around me.

And yet, a few posts back you said it was clicking along nicely. This was the month when you received that powerful prompting concerning communication and coming from love in its expression. As this was unfolding, I thought it was a magnificent example of a well-aspected transiting Venus rising and Sun's transit to natal Venus, yet with your natal Venus/Saturn midpoint on the angle (natal Saturn 4°10', natal Venus 5°07' below, midpoint 0°29' from Asc) and "background patterns" of Saturn to your MC, Neptune to your Saturn, etc.

The ongoing circumstances that form the backdrop of your surroundings are the drags. You, on the other hand, sounded like you were surging with positive Venus expression.

And then the Demi-SLR put a different cast on things for the second half of the month. Occurring late on July 11 (probably felt about a day earlier), it has Saturn-Pluto rising opposite Sun near Descendant, plus your Neptune exactly at MC (and some Mercury: the mundoscope makes clear that the Mercury is operating in aspect with Pluto).

Just taking the SLR planets (since adding your natal takes more time than I have at the moment):

Pluto on Asc 0°22'
Mercury on Dsc 0°43'
Sun on Dsc 2°04'
Saturn 3°32' above Asc
Mars on Dsc 5°20'
Venus on Dsc 6°35'

-- Mercury-Pluto op. 0°21' in mundo
-- Sun-Mercury conj. 1°21' in mundo
-- Sun-Saturn op. 1°29' in mundo
-- Sun-Pluto op. 1°42' in mundo
-- Mercury-Mars conj. 2°25'
-- Mercury-Saturn op. 2°50' in mundo
-- Venus-Mars op. 3°03' in mundo
-- Saturn-Pluto conj. 3°10' in mundo

I do like that Venus partile conjunct MC in the next one! There is still conflict, especially confronting communication (foreground Mercury-Pluto opposition, middleground Moon-Mars square that is partile mundanely). More later when I have time to address it properly.

Yes I was very much trying to keep myself in the space of good communication and I think I managed to do so for the most part. What I mean is that it didn't feel like I was the receiver of Venus, but rather the giver. I didn't look at the demi lunar. I was more optimistic in the beginning of the lunar return for sure ... but have just met his immature anger in response and am not as hopeful for a good understanding now. He needs to be ready to face himself and he has not been ready to do so this far. But I am doing my best to keep patient and not to join him in anger and resentment. I do not want to be there.

Am hoping things are slowly but surely going to be solved and get better.
I need that Saturn-Pluto out of my way now.

OMG, I would not have believed this kind of heaviness when I had a look at my lunar returns almost a month ago with the Venus and Jupiter energy. But of course the directed charts and the solar returns will weigh much heavier than a lunar return (imo)... so that lr energy was only to help me get by in the midst of all the heavy.

Three days to my next lunar return.
Ten days to my birthday.

Please get out of my way Saturn&Pluto!

Hang in there If Saturn-Pluto is good for anything pleasing, it's for endurance.

And in your case the angularity and the Saturn-Pluto aspect itself probably isn't as important as Sun's oppositions to both of them. There's a clue in that. Sun-Pluto is transformative, i.e., is demanding that things fundamentally and irreversibly change. (These aren't necessarily outer conditions. It could be inner shifts only.) OTOH Sun-Saturn digs in its heels to survive and hold things in place. Having both of these so strong (but Pluto much closer to the angle) means that there is a war going on, and the war is probably harder on you than the conditions.

Maybe you can use the remaining couple of days to find these competing needs inside yourself and begin (to use another Saturn-Pluto concept) deconstructing and dismantling them.

(I'll try to get a full breakdown of your next SLR today, so you have all the mundane minutia.)

The new SLR comes in at July 26, 2019, 1:00:53 PM BST in Edinburgh.

t Sun on MC -5°25'
t Pluto sq. Asc -1°08' (on IC +8°18')
t Venus on MC +0°40
r Uranus on Asc +4°33'
t Mercury on IC +5°28'

-- t Sun/Mercury on MC 0°01'
-- t Mercury sq. r Uranus 0°55' in mundo
-- t Mercury-Venus conj. 2°37'
-- t Mercury-Pluto op. 2°50' in mundo
-- t Sun sq. r Uranus 3°16'
-- t Pluto sq. r Uranus 3°45' in mundo
-- t Venus sq. r Uranus 3°57' in mundo

Other partile aspects:
t Neptune sq. r Saturn 0°17'
t Saturn sq. r Uranus 0°24'
t Moon-Mars sq. 0°29' in mundo
t Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°48' in mundo

It seems to me that the culminating Venus dominates everything, its only aspect being the conjunction with Mercury - which is generally quite pleasant. It's definitely a pro-communication and pro-discovery month, Mercury's aspects being positive on balance though quite dramatic and intensive. And it will be decisive in key areas, given Pluto's near-partile square to Asc.

I suspect the Sun/Mercury midpoint 0°01' from MC is business-related.

The foreground transiting and natal planets still show significant change, though within the context of the strong Venus. The non-foreground partile aspects show continuing backdrop conditions against which the foreground dynamics play, and these have tension and friction. (First impression is that the not-quite-foreground transiting Saturn exactly square foreground natal Uranus means that you want change - and especially freedom - much faster than it's coming, with usual "world's Saturn on my Uranus" sort of thing.) The Moon-Mars square is the most fiery - different possible expressions and one might hope you could find a Venus-themed one to use it for, though otherwise it means conflict. Neptune continues to depressively square your Saturn ecliptically, while mundanely it squares your Jupiter - seeming to contrast strong hopefullness against the concurrent Neptune-Saturn hopelessness.

Or something like that, since that was all of a minute of first impressions

Well I must say that I was pretty pleased to see that partile angular Venus. And a week into this LR I will shift into a new SR as well - so things are most definitely going to shift and the shift seems positive.

It's definitely a pro-communication and pro-discovery month, Mercury's aspects being positive on balance though quite dramatic and intensive. And it will be decisive in key areas, given Pluto's near-partile square to Asc.

Yes indeed - The Ven-Mer is promising for successful or good communication - although there is no telling (imo) which turn this relationship will take. I believe it is still hanging around on the crossroads, having not made the final decision yet. And although I know that we both need time apart, I will still have my heart open for a transformation in the name of love within the relationship IF I see there is a true will for that. The communication will need to take place in order to assess that - and it is good that it will be done with Ven-Mer. The Pluto interaction does make it seem like separative though. But the thing with Pluto is that you never know which way it will go because Pluto can mean final separation, but he also offers transformation for those who are willing to step onto that path.

It is good that Jupiter is aspecting Neptune and can at least give that hope within the hopelessness - because if I only had hopelessness I would be in a very bad place.

The conflict aspect of Moon-Mars is not surprising at all - that is the most certain thing in the upcoming weeks/months. Conflict is bound to be there. But on the other side of conflict there is sometimes intimacy - when people choose the path of leaning into the conflict to gain a better understanding of each other.

I like that Sun-Mercury midpoint as well. Whether it has to do with all the communication that needs to take place during our counselling, or whether it has to do with business opportunities it is good both ways. And maybe it means both, which is great because I really need both to happen.

But with partile Venus as the dominating influence joined by Sun-Mer midoint almost exact on the MC ... which will then be joined by the foreground Jupiter coming in my next SR - things seem a bit more promising.

We had a counselling session on Friday at noon. Just before this new SLR kicked in.
It was difficult. Oh my, oh my. I addressed a few issues and cried almost the whole time because it was so hard for me to even express it and then get all the rage and disrespect back from him. Kept my calm though and at one point tried to help him deal with his anger, told him to breathe and both the counsellor and myself had to tell him to show respect. It's as if there is an explosion inside him. And he shows his true immature colours now = he tries to belittle me and tries to get the counsellor to judge me! I had to be the more mature (as I am anyway) and state that I fully trusted expressing everything in that space within the confidence of the counsellor and that I fully trusted that he was not about to judge me.

Anyway, after the counselling session I went over to my friend's house crying and stayed there all day, chatting away.

In meditation yesterday I asked myself how I could evolve this "love and light" course of action that I've decided to take with this break-up. And the meditative answer was to express gratitude, perhaps in a poetic kind of way - in spite of all his resentment and anger I'm receiving from him, just express gratitude. I think I am going to cut that up in two session. Chapter one for the gratitude for the first half of our relationship when everything was good, and then chapter two for the second half when things turned downwards. In chapter one I will express gratitude for the love, eagerness and admiration he showed, the commitment to our children and family and his support for all that I was doing at the time, our good teamwork as parents and as partners in running a nice and welcoming home. In the second chapter it might get a little bit dark though, even though it will still be in gratitude, because I have to express my gratitude for the bad things. F.ex. such as "thank you for showing me your true dark colours and your low level of commitment and love during my period of low depression, thank you for kicking me (metaphorically) as I was at my lowest point because it helped me sink even deeper and it truly helped widening the void between us so that I could come to a bottom. That helped me put myself through great strides in order to heal myself in a way that I had never have thought of before and I've benefited enormously from already -but also helped me realise that we both need intense healing of our hearts - whether together or apart - so it gave me the compassion and love needed to reach my hand out to yours and offer you help to lift you up". So in our next session I think I will go through chapter one only... and then the session after that I will go through the second chapter. But maybe I will do chapter one and two in the same session. Next session is on Tuesday. May Venus be with me.

Added: BTW, I am now thinking seriously of only giving this counselling a couple of months of my time and energy and then going away, both to Portugal and Costa Rica. Portugal in October/November and Costa Rica maybe in January. It will be good for him to have a little/or a long taste of being all alone with the children and it will be good for both of us not to be around each other for a while.

Today I express my deep gratitude for the attitude of gratitude.

I've just decided to start every day from now until the last day of August by meditating shortly on my gratitude that day and truly feel it in my heart and soul and then express it.

This is going to be my way of healing myself and getting through this month which I know is going to be a challenge during the counselling.

I am getting ready to sit down and write chapter one for my gratitude counselling session tomorrow.

Attitude is everything.
Keep it positive.

One of my favorite all time quotes

"And now here is my secret, a very simple secret: It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.” la Petit Prince

I also try to remember to THINK before I speak
Is it True
Is it Helpful
Is it Inspiring
Is it Necessary
Is it Kind

Very wise words Veronica, and good rule to go by. Sometimes we go off track and it's not nice catching oneself in using mean words when trying to use the THINK approach However, having a conscious direction does make a difference I think.

I want to add his current SLR into this thread since it seems like things could possibly be shifting somewhat, hopefully towards better communication. His SLR just started yesterday and it was already a much better and more constructive communication. So now we both have Mercury-Venus on our angle in the lunar returns.

His SLR has the following foreground planets within 10°
POF partile conjunct ASC.
Mercury 1,02° above ASC
Venus 3,36° below ASC
Moon 6,17° below ASC
Sun 8,01° below ASC
Pluto 6,41°below DSC
Saturn 9,54° below DSC

This makes Mercury and Venus closest to the angle, just like in my LR.
His also has the Sun-Moon conjunction just next to Venus.
But the t. Uranus is also square to that Sun-Moon-Venus conjunction and the t. Uranus is opposite his n. Jupiter.
There is still the tension of the Mer-Pl opposition, but maybe all the benefics will help with our situation and communication this month. I already felt it change to the better yesterday.

Transiting Saturn just retrograded out of partile square to his natal Mercury. That's a good start. (Mercury-Pluto squares his natal Saturn - the opposite - but at least Pluto's exact square to Saturn takes a jackhammer to rigidities.)

I read his SLR as primarily Mercury-Pluto. It's at least good for confrontational (perhaps breakthrough) communication, which is what you've been wanting.

The most interesting feature, though. is the 0°12' foreground Moon-Sun conjunction. That's potentially a big game-changer. I'm not going to speculate on exactly which form it will take for him, but the most usual forms would stand everything happening recently on its head!

Thanks Jim
Yes there are still difficult aspects such as the Mer-Pluto, Puto-Saturn, Saturn-Mer ...
But I was a bit more hopeful to see this Sun, Moon, Venus conjunction.

The most interesting feature, though. is the 0°12' foreground Moon-Sun conjunction. That's potentially a big game-changer. I'm not going to speculate on exactly which form it will take for him, but the most usual forms would stand everything happening recently on its head!

Can you explain a bit more what you mean?

Moon-Sun aspects in solunars always show significant shifts - fundamental "phase changes" in life (if you want m best pun for it). The most straightforward reading of one this close is... husband + wife! Relationships are formed, bondings formed.

I don't want to cross the line of saying, "I don't suppose everything is going to stand on its head and you two are suddenly, miraculously going to turn around and get back together?" And I don't see enough to suggest, "Is he finding someone else this month, so soon?" So I was vague. But that's the feel of that aspect, this close and foreground.

My current "trying to fit all occasions" summary of Moon-Sun aspects in solunars is:

Crisis, i.e., a significant turning point, entering a new phase, reorientation. Major involvements with others (significant pairings established, marriage). Someone of singular importance takes a strong personal interest in the native. Exceedingly active and busy period. Self-assurance, pride. Enhanced self-assertion (emotional domination?).

The longer analysis of Moon-Sun aspects from my book Interpreting Solar Returns is here:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2805#p20723

The part that applies specifically to Moon-Sun conjunctions is this (I left out a paragraph that's more specific to solar returns than lunar returns):

In general, Sun-Moon aspects in a Solar Return represent crisis, i.e., significant turning points where the individual is most assuredly passing from one phase to another (just as the Moon is). Typically, there is a major involvement with other people. Significant pairings are established. The aspect may even indicate marriage, though in such a case a warning is in order: Because the life of the individual is coming to a transition point, it is important to examine relationship expectations and wants closely. A hasty pairing at such a time may meet with a premature end if the normal, healthy changes in one partner, accelerated by the Sun-Moon aspect, exceed the parameters of the original bonding.

Nonetheless, there is a natural inclination to get together with other people. Someone of singular importance may take a strong personal interest in an individual with this aspect in the current Solar Return. Self-assurance and pride are generally increased. Sun-Moon aspects are dynamic, so this will be an exceedingly active and busy period. [...]

More specifically, conjunctions of the Sun and Moon represent the birthing of a new cycle or emerging phase, while an old phase eases away. Doors can be ripped open and slammed shut! There is a refocusing upon the direction in which that life is proceeding. The individual is apt to acquire a new basic orientation to life. This conjunction seems heavily infused with a solar quality, with assertiveness strong and awareness of direction paramount for the life of the return chart.

Finally, here is the similar section from Bradley's Solar and Lunar Returns.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2805#p20724

I actually suspect that he might be dating someone. So this might be bonding with her and not me.

So now my demi lunar has just kicked in.
The angular Venus is gone (or maybe it's still active, but now with the added influence of the demi lunar) - it just manifested in loving support from friends around me and childhood friends who are far away as well.

The demi lunar has a Mer-Pluto opposition on angles and Neptune on MC.
A nice trine is shown from Jupiter to the Sun-Venus conjunction.

Arena, I looked back at the full technical breakdown I did of your July 26 SLR and noticed I had marked the closest angularities and aspects. Though five planets were foreground, transiting Venus and transiting Pluto were closest. Though there were several foreground aspects (plus that Sun/Mercury midpoint), the only partile foreground aspect was transiting Mercury square natal Uranus (only exists mundanely).

It seems to me that these describe the biggest part of the last two weeks: The biggest event seems to have been the disclosure of his new relationship (even though you suspected, it seems to have hit you as a discovery), and of course the ongoing relationship evolution/separation (even accelerating to your making a decision to get out of the country for a while - a very Plutonian abrupt decision).

Do you agree with this assessment? The partile angularities and aspects seem to have set the main theme (as we'd expect), and it's interesting that a foreground partile transiting aspect (not visible ecliptically) was such a key. (This also happened a month earlier with the foreground mundane conjunction of transiting Sun and natal Venus.)

I'm not sure what the Su/Me = MC 0°01' was. Is it clear to you? (What did I miss.)

The non-partile foreground aspects then seem to fill in more details - pretty obvious stuff, especially about you're trying to have confrontive, healing communications and keep things going in the transition. Obvious stuff like Mercury-Venus and Mercury-Pluto, Sun-Uranus, Uranus-Pluto, and Venus-Pluto.

I'm also curious about your perception of the partile NON-foreground aspects. Having thought for decades these must be important, I've settled in recent years into the phrasing that these background partile aspects form the backdrop against which the main action plays out. Does that seem right for your last two weeks? The non-foreground partile aspects were:

t Neptune sq. r Saturn 0°17'
t Saturn sq. r Uranus 0°24'
t Moon-Mars sq. 0°29' in mundo
t Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°48' in mundo

Arena wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:00 am So now my demi lunar has just kicked in.

I have a few minutes, so might as well do a technical work-up for you. Notice that no natal planets are foreground and there are a couple of interesting mundane aspects you probably didn't see - the most interesting of which is the close Neptune-Pluto square, but also Saturn square Neptune. I think a new layer of the emotional reality of the divorce will hit in these two weeks. The non-foreground partile aspects seem very severe (and this is about when Neptune exactly squares your Saturn), but I think they shouldn't be regarded as the "main event" but, rather, as (obvious seeming) backdrop conditions against which the "immediate action" of the play unfolds.

Another thing to notice is that nothing is partile to the angles and there are no partile foreground aspects (unless that Me/Pl midpoint acts as such). This likely means that this isn't a "life-altering" fortnight in the "big bonanza events" since (though, of course, every fortnight is a life-altering fortnight ).

t Mercury on Asc -3°21'
-- t Me/Pl on horizon 0°06'
t Pluto on Dsc +3°08'
t Neptune on MC +4°41'
t Saturn on Dsc +6°39'

-- t Neptune-Pluto sq. 1°33' in mundo
-- t Saturn-Neptune sq. 1°57' in mundo
-- t Saturn-Pluto conj. 3°31' in mundo
-- -- Ne = Sa/Pl 0°13'

Other partile:
t Neptune sq. r Saturn 0°02'
t Saturn sq. r Uranus 0°24'
t Mars conj. r Mars 0°35'
t Mars sq. r Uranus 0°41' in mundo

It seems to me that these describe the biggest part of the last two weeks: The biggest event seems to have been the disclosure of his new relationship (even though you suspected, it seems to have hit you as a discovery), and of course the ongoing relationship evolution/separation (even accelerating to your making a decision to get out of the country for a while - a very Plutonian abrupt decision).

Do you agree with this assessment?

I'm not sure what the Su/Me = MC 0°01' was. Is it clear to you? (What did I miss.)

What I can say is that I see truth in both the SLR and the TLR with the separative Saturn near the IC and the pain that came with all that discovery.
Yes the big thing has been this discovery as it revealed to me that he is not the man I thought he was, he had already shut off his love long before he left or he does not show this long term relationship the respect that I think is appropriate. It hit me hard, very hard. And yes I have been planning to get a way for a while.
I can see the partile angular Venus as simply the support and love from friends and then the Sun/Mer=MC is not clear in any other way than just being a time of lots of communication. No business yet. But I guess it is still active throughout the month though. So maybe something will unfold.

I'm also curious about your perception of the partile NON-foreground aspects. Having thought for decades these must be important, I've settled in recent years into the phrasing that these background partile aspects form the backdrop against which the main action plays out. Does that seem right for your last two weeks? The non-foreground partile aspects were:

t Neptune sq. r Saturn 0°17'
t Saturn sq. r Uranus 0°24'
t Moon-Mars sq. 0°29' in mundo
t Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°48' in mundo

I can most definitely see these aspects in play, but I am not sure I would categorise them as background even though they show up as background in the LR.
The Nep-Sat theme is very much angular in my solar arcs ... it will be a theme in my life for a long while - so I will feel that separative depressive theme for a while still.
The Saturn is squaring n. Uranus which is "angular" since it is on the WP or sq the n. MC.
The Moon-Mars does describe the heated arguments and loss of temper. I slapped him.
The Nep sq Jup is also brought to an angle since n. Jupiter is angular (although not locally).

So this is my view, that even though background in LR, they are actually very active on all kinds of angles

Speaking as someone who has been through divorce with children involved, and who has an amicable relationship with my daughter's mom and a kid who is pretty happy with her 50-50 schedule..

The sooner you can take your focus off what your ex is doing wrong, and get it on yourself and what you want to do right, the better you'll be.

I had to work hard, with a lawyer to get to 50-50 time, and you can bet it cooled my heart toward her mom. If she had hit me or threatened to fight to take custody, I probably would not have an amicable relationship with her, and my daughter would have suffered for the fact that her mom couldn't control her temper.

If you can't control your temper, leave.

And on to the demi lunar

I think a new layer of the emotional reality of the divorce will hit in these two weeks.

Yes I do think so too. It is hitting me hard and will continue to do so.

The Mer-Pluto seems like perhaps the most prominent in the demi LR.

MERCURY-PLUTO
(Individual/outlier thought, halted mind, nervous strain)
Collision of divergent ideas, information, or communication. Circumstances cause great nervous tension, tax one's patience, and force one to face the music and take a stand. Consequences of events stun the intellect, shifting an underlying paradigm, significantly reframing how someone thinks. Despite an underlying disrespect for the law, one may be backed up against a wall of convention or law and have to fight one's way out of the predicament. Under terrific nervous pressure, may be forced to sign one's name, as with a loyalty-oath or answer tough questions ("being given the third degree"). (Seems to show in SLRs for deaths of loved ones.)

It makes me wonder how he is planning to play his cards now.
Oh my, oh my.

Avshalom Binyamin wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:05 am Speaking as someone who has been through divorce with children involved, and who has an amicable relationship with my daughter's mom and a kid who is pretty happy with her 50-50 schedule..

The sooner you can take your focus off what your ex is doing wrong, and get it on yourself and what you want to do right, the better you'll be.

I had to work hard, with a lawyer to get to 50-50 time, and you can bet it cooled my heart toward her mom. If she had hit me or threatened to fight to take custody, I probably would not have an amicable relationship with her, and my daughter would have suffered for the fact that her mom couldn't control her temper.

If you can't control your temper, leave.

Yes this is what I've been trying to get across to him. To not have the fights, to try and have civil communication and approach this with respect for our family, kids and the love we had.
I wanted to do the counselling for both possible results. I offered to keep reconciliation open for a while and I also emphasized that it could keep the communication better throughout the process of a divorce to be able to cooperate with the schedule of the children. He simply didn't cooperate ... but I think he is coming to his senses (hopefully soon). The threats have been more from him than me and I tried to get him to stop that.

I would say that for the most part I've controlled my temper more than he has - but I did slap him when I found out he already started dating a few weeks after he was out of the house. It was too much disrespect for all these years and our love and also for our future as parents that need to cooperate. It felt like betrayal.

But I am indeed planning to leave because I feel he needs time to settle and to be able to control his rage. I can't be around it and need distance from him.

He's allowed to date.

Your best way to improve communication is to not hit.

I agree Av.

And as painful as it is to admit...I would lash out.
And that act of violence is what brought to me incredible pain and shame and a host of other yucky feelings tgat I gave been muddling through.

I grew up in a violent home and watched people brutalized each other.

When I got hurt by anothers actions....instead of being honest and clear about my feelings I just instinctual ly reacted...with patterns I had learned from others.

Avshalom Binyamin wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:22 am He's allowed to date.

Not while he's claiming to want to be working on his marriage he's not.

Your best way to improve communication is to not hit.

His best way to improve communication is not to be a lying two-faced scum-bag.
While she shouldn't have slapped him, she was certainly provoked to do so. I hope he didn't set it up on purpose to further his case for getting the house and custody of the children. I wouldn't be at all surprised, though.

The best way for her to communicate with him is to stop assuming any desire to save the marriage on his part and route everything through a lawyer before you end up with nothing.

Sorry Arena, but I think you should stay home, throw him out of the house and limit his contact with your children. I also think it would be worth while finding out how long he's been dating. I doubt very much from the behavior you've described over the last few months that he's been entirely faithful, although he may have waited till you were apart to actually bed her. "Oh, boo hoo, my wife is so mean to me" is almost always foreplay. A private detective who can chat up both his work friends and hers might seem expensive, but it might mean you get to keep the house.

You're welcome to your opinion. Somehow I doubt you'd feel the same if it was a man doing the hitting.

Avshalom Binyamin wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:02 am You're welcome to your opinion. Somehow I doubt you'd feel the same if it was a man doing the hitting.

FWIW I think the most important point here is that it takes two to tango. The interaction created this more than the individuals, then they silently picked their parts in the play.

Avshalom Binyamin wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:02 am You're welcome to your opinion. Somehow I doubt you'd feel the same if it was a man doing the hitting.

I've testified supporting men who hit under the same kind of duress. I don't condone hitting, but sometimes the fault isn't all on one side and that needs to be taken into account too.

Avshalom Binyamin wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:05 am The sooner you can take your focus off what your ex is doing wrong, and get it on yourself and what you want to do right, the better you'll be.

I completely agree with your advice here.

Ok, then it's a just a difference of opinion about violence, and not sexism at play here.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:54 am FWIW I think the most important point here is that it takes two to tango. The interaction created this more than the individuals, then they silently picked their parts in the play.

Sure, on a philosophical level, with us all connected through karma.

I'm not trying to demonize Arena or paint her as prone to violence. Some relationships will bring out our best, others will bring out our worst. I hope it's a one-off and that she is able to let go and move into a happier, healthier context.

Regardless, when a relationship escalates to violence, it is clearly not a context from which healing can take place. Separation and individual healing has to come first.

Transcendental truths can be taken as an excuse for bypassing mundane lessons. "Context can bring out the worst in all of us" vs "he or she was a scumbag who had it coming" are in some ways similar ideas. The later revolts me, because I mostly see it in the context of excusing personal responsibility, stirring contempt, and not doing our work to be healthier and less destructive. The former at least hints that we can work to choose better contexts as 1/2 of the equation of personal growth.

Avshalom Binyamin wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:29 am Ok, then it's a just a difference of opinion about violence, and not sexism at play here.

I edited my post (added to it) while you were posting this.

I don't think it's a difference of opinion about violence either. I don't condone hitting. I do think its appropriate to note when it's actually hitting back after being struck in the face verbally. Words can be every bit as painful and damaging as sticks and stones.

Just better to get the lawyers in sooner rather than after somebody gets hurt.

It's a difference of opinion.

Arena
Im so sorry you went through that.
It breaks my heart to know that you were in such a situation.
I was in those situations a lot...with my ex husband....screaming and yelling at me and saying the most hurtful mean things...Id run from room to room and hed knock down the doors.
It is an assult in a very real way and ut is hard to stay clear headed and not succumb to the pressure.
I comend you for only slapping him
And nit going ghetto and putting a blade in his thigh like I know many women will.

I agree with Jupiter though.
Don't deal with him anymore.
He will try to push buttons and get you to react to try and use that against you.
In his eyes you've disrespected him...in front of his male world.
You have no idea the depth of rage and revenge a man has in this regard.
I know a man whoes wife cheated on him and the whole block found out....he paid a hitman to beat and rape her but keep her alice bc she was the mother of his kids. I know another man who led on an ex for two years....telling her they would get tofether and had her sell all her stuff...give him the money...and he moced out of the country with another woman. He plotted for two years. Because of male pride and his loss of face in the circle of men he was with.
You never know.
Please watch yourself and take care you are a wonderful person and had noble intentions . most people it seems dont have any intentions let alone noble ones. Stay Gold.

Jupe wrote:

Sorry Arena, but I think you should stay home, throw him out of the house and limit his contact with your children. I also think it would be worth while finding out how long he's been dating. I doubt very much from the behavior you've described over the last few months that he's been entirely faithful, although he may have waited till you were apart to actually bed her. "Oh, boo hoo, my wife is so mean to me" is almost always foreplay. A private detective who can chat up both his work friends and hers might seem expensive, but it might mean you get to keep the house.

I generally agree with Jupe's above post—not because of a difference of philosophical issues between Arena and her Partner, but because of the the astrological factors with Arena's charts. I could be entirely wrong but I have always felt that Arena's Partner was doing a deceitful trip on her. Why? Because of Arena's Neptune-MC solar arc hit! And, I saw far more symbolic hurt/pain with Arena's charts than with her partner's charts. If there has been deceit by Arena's partner—the question is for how long??? The only way to answer this is with some type of legal investigation. I know this being an astrologer: If I had a Neptune-MC solar arc in my chart and was going through a separative/divorce crises with my partner, I would not entirely trust anything happening within my immediate environment.

I appreciate the astrological analysts.

However, one thing still is really bugging me:

Please people though don't suggest the awful thing of using kids as pawns in a divorce.

Kids do better when they have access to both parents, even if one cheated, or you think they're a jerk, or whatever.

Trying to limit parental contact because of your personal conflict is horrible.

Av wrote:

Trying to limit parental contact because of your personal conflict is horrible.

I agree Av. But, when it comes to financial settlements---thats entirely another matter. I believe Arena is not legally married to her partner, and I don't understand what the laws of her land says in a non legal marriage, particularly if it is known if one of the partners cheated, before the separation. I have lots of experience in this area, because my mom came to me one day and told me she deeply felt my father was cheating on her and asked me for my advice. No way my mom could afford the $ for a private investigator so I payed for a top notch investigator and sure enough he was cheating on my mom. The investigator provided plenty of juicy pictures and when my mother filed for divorce and got her lawyer my father was financially crucified in a court of law, which was the only way my mother could have supported herself as a single lady over the age of 50 with no job security.

I'm suggesting Arena protect herself financially and protect her children from her husband using them as pawns to gain financial advantage in their divorce. Once the divorce has been obtained, custody can be updated to give the children better access to their father.

Arena has shown herself to be more than willing to be fair, and has been dealt with in an underhanded and manipulative manner. We're telling her not to be naive and trusting with someone who has shown he will take advantage.

Jupe wrote:

Arena has shown herself to be more than willing to be fair, and has been dealt with in an underhanded and manipulative manner. We're telling her not to be naive and trusting with someone who has shown he will take advantage.

I 100% agree with Jupe's assessment!