Jeffrey Epstein

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Jim Eshelman
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Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:36 am

Jeffrey Epstein is dead from hanging. While his life was surely at risk the moment he set foot in a Manhattan jail, it's being treated as a suicide.

He was born January 20 1953 in Brooklyn, NY, time unknown. Most of the lurid details revealed about him in recent months are evident even in the untimed birth chart with its Capricorn Sun, Pisces Moon, and partile Venus-Mars conjunction in Aquarius.

He was found dead this morning (8/10/19) at 6:30 AM, according to The Guardian, in his Manhattan cell.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:41 am

Transiting Neptune has been in partile conjunction with his natal Venus-Mars conjunction, most suitable for the sex scandal of the century (so far) - among other twistings of his psychological state, no doubt.

With everything impacting him, and now the suicide, one wonders if transiting Saturn (currently 20° Sagittarius) is square his Moon (which was at 16°33' Pisces at noon on his birth date) - that would imply an evening birth, perhaps around 8 PM give or take a couple of hours.It would be a really good fit.

One transit we know he did have today was Mercury square his Saturn.

Switching to progressions.... I'm really starting to like that give-or-take 8 PM time that would push natal Moon 4° later, because I now see (for a noon birth) progressed Moon at 18° Leo. Add 4° to that and it's opposite natal Venus-Mars and transiting Neptune. Transiting Neptune to progressed Moon is one of the most common aspect for suicide, and it brings the whole main sex scandal matter to a head.

So, for the record and calculating carefully rather than estimating, a birth time of 8 PM gives a natal Moon 21°16' Pisces (partile square Uranus), not quite in partile orb of transiting Saturn, and progressed Moon 22°14' Leo, almost to the minute opposite natal Mars, and within a degree of opposite transiting Neptune. It's solid enough that I'd be at least mildly surprised if we got a birth record showing something wildly different from it.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:03 am

His lunar returns for death for an approximately 8 PM time initially look boring until I notice the natal planets. Shazam! Understanding this is only a single event, his final SLR showed ab existential confrontation with the impact of events on his wealth, status, etc. His final Demi-SLR showed a deeply morbid state of mind consistent with self-harm. Specifically:

July 23 SLR
MC 30° Cancer
-- r Pluto 28°28' Cancer
Asc 20° Libra
-- r Jupiter 17°19' Aries

Transiting Saturn was within 0°04' of square natal Moon, among other aspects.


August 5 Demi-SLR
Asc 2° Libra
-- r Neptune 29°48' Virgo
-- r Saturn 3°01' Libra
MC 7° Cancer
-- r Sun 6°37' Capricorn

Transiting Saturn was still in partile (0°55') square to natal Moon. Transiting Neptune, of course, was conjoining his Venus-Mars, with Neptune to Venus 0°01' (I suppose related to "betrayal by friends" and the outing of more and more information about his circles and activities). Other partile transits fill in details, but the angles seem to tell the story.

So... as far as we can go with a single event... this approximate time looks really, really good!
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:30 am

His progressed Ascendant, for an 8 PM birth time, is 2° from opposite progressed Mars, a fact that is made more interesting because in 2008 when he plead guilty and was convicted, progressed Ascendant was approximately 2° shy of progressed and natal Saturn. (Just taking mental notes.)

When he tried to pull his scores of millions out of Zwirm in November 2006 (and likely lost everything in the fund's implosion), progressed Asc was just over 2° shy of progressed Saturn, which was in partile opposition to progressed Mars - that would likely be a very close hit! He also had been under federal investigation since spring 2006. He was also under investigation for the first round of sex-related charges throughout 2006.

[But for 8 PM exactly, the Zwirm event gives progressed Neptune and natal Saturn on progressed angles, so it's great without modification. Either Saturn + Neptune for 8 PM or Mars to Saturn on angles for 2° later, about 8:08 PM.]
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:37 am

Switching from Secondary Progressions to Solar Arcs with primary attention on hits to and by Moon and the angles...

The first hits I see here are a better argument for not bumping the time up a few minutes. For example, when it all hit the fan in 2006 on multiple levels, directed MC squared natal Saturn for an 8 PM time. (It also did this with Primary/Secondary Progressions, but the horizon seemed to hold more attention in that case, given progressed Mars' opposition to natal Saturn near or on progressed Ascendant.)

Looking through a list of events, I'm not convinced these are helpful, though. Several seem just off, or just slightly wrong symbolism. I'm not persuaded that Solar Arcs pop out life events with the same clarity and precision as Secondaries.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:40 am

I think there is no need to refine this further, especially since it's all speculative. I would suggest a birth time of 8 PM, possibly bumped about 8 minutes later.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Veronica » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:51 pm

I feel that mean people, like shooters and !$@% should get as little press as possible.
It plants bad seeds IMO

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Venus_Daily » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:14 pm

Veronica, I was just about to post about this. Compare Epstein to serial child rapist and cult founder David Berg. They both have a Mars/Venus conjunction in Aquarius. Mars/Venus is quite lecherous and libidinal unto itself (no offense to these types of people), but when posited in Aquarius, it directs the libido toward Youth or Young children. David Berg was born on Feb/18/1919.

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:32 pm

FWIW I agree completely where mas shooters are concerned, but perhaps for a different reason.

Mass shooters (at least, the largest class of them) are known to commit their crimes specifically to get attention and be glorified. Every time one of them gets significant press attention, it helps reinforce this "road to glory" in other potential mass shooters.

Sexual predators aren't like that. They don't want to be known. They want to pass invisibly among us. We need to shine a light on them.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Veronica » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:14 am

If you say that the light needs to be shined on them then shine I will. Even though it hurts.

Venus my exhusband had Mars venus conjunct. He abused his daughter for years, right under my nose. My own daughter was still too young. When the police came and took him I couldnt believe it and at first thought it was just my step daughter lashing out. After the initial shock and I paused and looked at his behavior and his language I knew I had to get him away from her.

A very big part of me does not understand or cannot accept the synastry in that relationship. To admit that I had feelings for a man who would hurt his own daughter....makes me feel like a monster inside.

I dont understand the purpose for their existance and in looking at nature I dont see any other living creature who hurts babies. I have long thought that this one aspect of human culture is intimately tied up with humanity's feeling of powerlessness and hopelessness.
Those were words my ex used very often.

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Veronica » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:16 am

In looking at a few charts of people.....

I am concidering that it is not just a mars venus conjunction that gives rise to sexual abuses against children. I think that the midpoint between mars and venus is an indicator and aspects to this that fall in aquarius are triggers.

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:31 pm

Veronica wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:16 am
In looking at a few charts of people.....

I am concidering that it is not just a mars venus conjunction that gives rise to sexual abuses against children. I think that the midpoint between mars and venus is an indicator and aspects to this that fall in aquarius are triggers.
There are a lot of factors that converge in his chart. We have to be careful not to imply that anyone with these factors would have the same details of behavior.

The very powerful Venus-Mars conjunction is in Aquarius and closely trine Uranus. As they said about J.S. Bach, "there were no stops on his organ" and no real social or cultural constraints on its application. He's a Capricorn, known for really extreme sexual needs, with Sun square Saturn intensifying the selfish and cut-offside of Capricorn. His Moon is in Pisces, and historic Pisceans (especially those with luminaries and a stellium in Pisces) are well-documented for pleasure extremes and out of the ordinary variants and excesses.

I also say, but cautiously and with concern how it will be taken: We may also need to consider that sex with children is only a problem in modern times. It may be that it is completely natural and we shouldn't look at it as an aberration. (For the record, no, not where I'm personally drawn.) It may be only a problem in recent centuries because children are raised more isolated from sexuality and there are entirely different trust and expectation issues. It may be that all that is required in a chart is that one feels unleashed from social constraints and has a little less empathy and conscience so as not to get the impact on the individuals.

His traits are probably hypersexuality, need to spit in society's face, no particular boundaries he respects, and lack of empathy.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Veronica » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:18 pm

I hear you.
I agree it is a modern moral issue. Ive long thought about this whole topic.

Maybe though...
by implying that there is a seemingly common aspect such as mars venus connection and possibly ruffling a few feathers of people who have a similar trait (myself included) with some deep introspection on the mechanics of the impulse and drive and power behind it
Society can move past the behaviors that are physically and emotionally harming others with out there consent or understanding.

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:33 pm

I decided to use my semi-automated way of generating chart notes - to keep the outcome independent of my own projections. Here's what I got. Remember, these aren't a real, full chart interpretation, and they are written to be upbeat and show the best side of a thing. Nonetheless, some of the wording is incredibly telling about the person who ended up. -- NOTE: I used 8 PM but didn't include anything other than one Moon aspect that is dependent on a time.

MOON
Moon in Pisces

Most truly themselves when being someone else. Dramatizes a personal fiction; “big fish” confidence (self-important, airs?). Love having a “secret side.” Divas. Emotionally driven (haunted). Fascinated with the unknown. Religious thinking style. Faith, commitment to beliefs or vision. Judgmental. Hardened personal reality (stuck patterns).

Moon square Uranus (0°28')
A specie of genius (intellectually rebellious, roving, curious, investigative) is bursting to express itself – not wholly comfortable accepting outside guidance, often wondering why others don’t recognize its nature. Inquisitive, original, futuristic, seeking novelty & needing variety (“will try anything twice”). Free-spirited: psychologically lives outside of convention; but subject to tensions and stiffness from emotional stress.

SUN
Sun in Capricorn

Survival and autonomy needs foremost. Sociable; not self-disclosing. Humor, storyteller, prankish, music. Good resource manager. Struggles against tough odds. Discontent, combative, resists persuasion and conformity. Values past; defies status quo. Emotions cautious initially. Extreme libido.

Sun octile Mars (0°34')
Action, drive, accomplishment, courage. Restless, forthright, (perhaps hasty, impatient, temperamental). Physical aggression, strong sexual needs. Industrious, instinctive leader.

Sun square Saturn (3°37')
Effective survivors, self-sufficient, hard-working, accomplishing. Few luxuries; prefers private, modest accommodations. Authority issues to overcome (paternal). Serious, yet good sense of humor! Childhood hardships common, circumstances force early maturation.

MARS
Mars in Aquarius

Powerful pragmatic mind is progressive, non-dogmatic. Analytical, innovative, resourceful. Visionaries (yet pragmatic first). Bold individual. Avoids automatic herd compliance. Honest, unpretentious. Follows own instincts, not advice. Gregarious, loves life, vested in friendship, helpful to friends (helper in general). Understands people. Sexually uninhibited.

Venus conjunct Mars (1°01')
Passion (in all senses), feels powerfully about things. Strong sexual passions mature early, continue late, rarely encumbered by too many conditions. Broadly fun-loving, socially active, loves romance: interesting, likable, sociable, horny people. Relationships, often picked for ferocity, easily hit conflict, strain, or burnout.

Mars trine Uranus (0°23')
Uncompromisingly individualist. Bold, distinctive characters. Brutally honest, takes risks, challenges accepted ideas (actions may challenge the world to try to stop them). Always into something new, often offbeat. Resourceful (quick astute assessment of situations), shows initiative. Sexually uninhibited, enthusiastic. Trusts own instincts more than outside advice.

MERCURY
Mercury in Sagittarius

Easy speech seems cultured, educated, authoritative, refined. Way with words, oratorical. Optimistic. Good-tempered, tactful, quiet (stubborn). Conscious of the architecture of thought & language. Does well in business world, commercially ambitious. Traveling.

Mercury square Neptune (1°36')
Hyper-responsive to environment and perceptions, extreme sensitivity to sensory impressions (may include psychism). Magnifies trivialities, fixates on particulars (often perfectionists); thus, often uncanny memories. Loves puzzle- or problem-solving, often in fantasy modelling; gets much pleasure and psychological relief from fantasied problem solving. However, commonly avoids own real problems by obsessing over fantasy problems. Dreamers, story-tellers, can enthuse-enroll others and convince someone of almost anything. Many adapt readily to systematized thought-modes of math and science.

VENUS
Venus in Aquarius

Realists in relationships: take others as they find them. Cool, aloof; often disinterested, dismissive. Will not surrender autonomy or “get lost in someone.” Pragmatic in relationships; okay with (desires?) many variations. Many identify with purposeful community (often idealistic). Private about their personal lives. Not prone to marry. (Moody, depressed.)

Venus trine Uranus (1°24')
Pleasure needs are free from social convention or taboo; enjoys diverse social & sexual experiences. Approach friendship, love, & sex impersonally, on their own terms (deep instinct for flexibility & freedom). Popular, friendly, flirtatious, roguish.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Soft Alpaca » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:28 am

As someone who has Mars square Venus (Mars in Aquarius venus in Scorpio) I can't say that I'm surprised liking youth comes out of these people. If other Mars-Venus people who have it associated with Mars(Uranus) signs are foremost looking for sexual freedom and expression, it is easy to see why they would aim to control younger more mentally malleable children. [In no way I am saying this is morally ok].

I am curious as well [maybe this should be set up as a seperate thread] do the people who pushed for adding pedophilia to the LGBT letters or people who were found guilty doing such acts commonly have Mars with Venus (especially in association with Aquarius]?

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:49 am

We'd have to have birth data on such people to know.

And, of course, this isn't common of Mars in Aquarius per se, i.e., the majority of people with Mars in Aquarius don't have that specific expression. I'm willing to say of them that they avoid automatic herd compliance, follows their own instincts, and are sexually uninhibited, just as Venus in Aquarius people are okay with (and often actively desire) many sexual variations; but that's a long way from saying that have any specific variation foremost. I have a few Mars in Aquarius celebs that have been especially protective of very young people - Elizabeth Taylor and Elton John, for example - and none besides Epstein who are outright known (to me) to have been pedophiles.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Arena » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:16 am

We may also need to consider that sex with children is only a problem in modern times.
There is no such thing as "sex" with children. It is always rape, abuse, violence. It is not the same thing as sex between two consenting adults and we all know that. No need to talk about "modern culture" or modern times". Even though it has existed for a long time in the history of mankind does not make it any less abusive and violent and neither does torture or killing another human being.

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:30 am

I agree with you.
Read up on the age of consent sometime.
It goes younger the more heavily paternalistic the society. As women gain in wealth, power and esteem the age rises. Like rape, it's about control, not sex. Some people get those confused.

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