Therese Hamilton wrote:I will comment further on Lena's chart later today, but here are her initial responses. I think her chart is a good example of the astrologer needing to know the soul history of a person before he or she can accurately judge a chart. Any astrologer cannot function or "see" above his own level of spiritual development.
One initial comment: Lena's Sun is the same degree as Tiger Woods' Sun, and she has the same ability to focus 100 percent on what she's doing with no interference from emotional issues which she lacks anyway. I've never known a person with such focus and detachment. I've always felt that long ago she was trained in the ancient spiritual temples. She doesn't operate on the same plane as the majority of human beings.
More later, including her own personality sketch. Her comments below:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
The chart screams "explorer."
No, not an explorer, but did live far from birthplace for 20 years in India. I am allergic to going out and about discovering and exploring different places. Once I get somewhere, I like to stay put in one little stable area. Going from home to necessary shopping to workplace and back is my only 'exploring'.
(I'll rest on that as her single most outstanding theme.) I don't know whether that is physically true, or only metaphorically true - that depends on life conditions, means, etc., and (at least if she lived in birthplace for most of her growing up) the background Jupiter and Saturn make me think it more likely that she didn't feel she was given a lot of opportunity.
For most of my life, for the most part I did whatever I wanted. Though, I would have had more comfort had there been better financial means.
This is the chart of someone that, if she had the means, has spent much of her life physically exploring the world, reaching outside her original center even if careening back to it as a home base. If she didn't have the means for that, then she's been exploring intellectually, conceptually, ideologically, cracking codes, uncovering the covered, widening mental horizons.
Not true. Most of life was spent controlling the mind mentally and being stable in one place physically, and wouldn't have wanted otherwise.
First, in a counseling session, I would spend a lot of time focusing on what superficially seems a conflict between the Sagittarius Sun and the Moon-Pluto. The former is about form, institution, tradition; the latter is about extricating oneself from arbitrary tradition, and this comes across most of the time as rebellious, antiauthoritarian, outside the box.
Could be true, I respect old fashioned values and tradition; at the same time, wouldn't want to be tied down within the constraints of traditional female roles of the past.
Yet the angular Moon joins Sagittarius in being very connected to heritage.
[Note from Therese: Lena is quite passionate about tracing ancestry, especially to please the elders in the relationship. She spent a great deal of time tracking down evidence that an ancestor came to the U.S. on the Mayflower. She has spent much time, energy and money on obtaining official papers, letters from those who can help, and so forth. This is how her Sag energy has played out. She has put together beautiful and detailed ancestry books.]
Second, there are strong family themes. This is a variation of the heritage part above. Sagittarius needs her tribe, and this needn't end with original family, but it might. Against this, Moon-Pluto is the divergent one, the black sheep, the crazy cousin, the one that doesn't "behave." The thing is, while it may be her role in the family mix to be this character, heritage is also deeply, powerfully important to her, and Sanitarian themes are really important to her - she just needs to go deeper, to get them actually and authentically rather than accepting them like a peerage rule book. As part of the family issues, there is a strong (and probably ambivalent) relationship to the primary mother figure, and probably extending into other women in her life down the years - very likely a sharp, separative mother event that has significantly defined her.
True in that I completely embraced the 'tribe' of groups of elderly, traditional village ladies in India, meanwhile not caring too much about my own birth family. Also, always kept a close communication with birth mother, which has become stronger as I age.
Third, Moon-Pluto people's biographies are often marked by what seems like intense, fated circumstances - things that seem that in no way they, themselves, caused or originated. I don't think there is any such thing in life, and with Moon-Pluto the pattern - even in the most extreme cases - seems to be that their psyches need the sense that powerful, overwhelming, transformative things happened TO them, that they are the recipient of these things, reacting and responding to these things - and there is strong subconscious motivation both to set these overwhelming events in motion and (more often than not) to be "at effect" of them.
True that though I outwardly MADE things happen (going to India, returning to USA, etc) I felt pulled or drawn as it was 'meant to be' so acted, doing what I wanted but at the same time, feeling like a puppet of fate.
[Note from Therese: I don't see a Plutonian influence in her life as defined by Fagan and Bradley.]
I wonder about this in her particular case because, with everything else, the Pisces Moon certainly loves its drama and can get caught up in the drama of being a victim - so there may be a payoff in setting up something dramatic where she's the victim. If nothing that big and dramatic has marked the life, then I still stand by the basic character and motivational pattern I've outlined here.
Feel unattached from drama even if outwardly traumatic events happen. Play things down and tend toward denial of their intensity.
Fourth, I'll just repeat my standard paragraph on Moon-Pluto: Bold & forthright, questioning & challenging, maverick & alien; independent, marching to a different drummer,resisting authority. Avoids habitual conformity (rebellious?); resists conventional conditioning and being made to concur with others values and codes
.
Agree that I am unconventional compared to the majority.
Restless, unwilling to be still for long, can uproot or take to the road on little notice.
Not true.
[Note from Therese: Lena could win a world award for a calm, steady disposition. She has never been restless.]
Deeply inquiring into existential mysteries, often igniting remarkable intuitive insights.
Not very intuitive, however much of life spent questioning reality and the afterlife.
SUN - The moderately orbed Moon-Sun square makes me think she was more likely to "take the bull by the horns" in her life than be a passive passenger.
True.
MOON-MARS ...I think, in her chart, this boils down to the usual intense sexual needs running at odds with "the rule book," then probably with Moon-Pluto stirring the "in trouble with the family or the rules" pattern - but this is hard to pin down without knowing more about the original family circumstances. I've mentioned the dynamics, I'm not sure what life-context they had to fit into.
Hahaha, no interest in sex whatsoever, from young age till date!
[Note from Therese: Very true. Lena had no boyfriends her entire life (and didn't want any) until she married in her 40s to an Indian man, mainly because he wanted to marry her. To date most of their married life has been lived apart due to his IT work in different states. Her Mars aspect to the Moon externalizes in extreme efficiency and practicality. Mars exalted in Capricorn.]
MARS-URANUS is a moderate sesquisquare. This probably just adds to the rebelliousness, the tendency to "get into trouble" (in tension with the "follow protocol" Sagittarius). Mars is middleground and well-placed by sign, but probably works out mostly through that rising Moon."
Getting into trouble' only within the boundaries of a completely righteous existence. (Example, helping the elderly Indians when it was against the rules for foreigners to be friends with the natives.)
[Note from Therese: Lena never got into trouble growing up, but did fall apart when John Lennon was shot. At that time a Sidereal astrologer gave her a reading, and I remember that her natal Uranus/Pluto square to Mercury was angular in the solar return. Sometimes natal aspects only externalize for specific events.]
My basic nature is so-and-so, but it doesn't seem I have any opportunity to BE that, to experience that. How can I actualize what I am? What do I have to do to get a shot at being me?" (Or something like that. Playing with the dynamics here. The observable principles are: (1) Her Sun is in Sagittarius. (2) Jupiter has essentially no presence, no outlet, and no avenue of expression in her chart besides that.)
Too confusing and general to comment on. Could probably fit almost any human on the planet?
End of Lena's comments.
Lena has a very high moral code in all respects. That's why I believe she has temple training from the past. She's one of those rare people who go through life without accumulating karma. She has always been completely unattached to those in her life including family, and simply flows with whatever life happens to offer, giving her services where she sees they are needed. I'll add additional comments later.
Anyway, Jim, I feel vindicated. As astrologers we cannot know the soul of a person from a blind natal chart. In general, we cannot give accurate readings. Sadly, however, many astrologers
believe they are giving accurate readings. And these astrologers generally have no formal psychological training. A very sad situation in my view.