Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Danica wrote:look in Solar Fire for the icon-button "View chart in astro-mapping module", the button is a picture of the globe.

if you are calculating your charts online, there's an option on astro.com to calculate astro-map for a chart (I've used it long ago, can't remember where it is on the site, but I know it's easy to find if you have an account there)

here's the map from Solar Fire for your natal chart.
it shows along which longitudes & latitudes on Earth you have angular planets - of course, some of the lines go through cities and habitable areas, some not

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:Thanks Danica.

Looks like I had the general idea right. I was just doing it manually.

So, how does the new angularity mesh with your birth angles? Is it kind of like: move to angular Jupiter to be more jovial, move to angular Mercury to emphasize intellectual side, move to angular Sun to emphasize sense of destiny/purpose. And avoid angular Uranus if you don't want to feel like a perpetual outsider, etc??

muse9 wrote:As I've been told - you take your birth chart with you...but yes you'd be correct: move towards a jupiter line to be more jovial/lucky, move toward a venus line to be more creative/romantic etc...

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:As well, you may benefit from "The Psychology of AstroCartography" by Jim Lewis (with Kenneth Irving):

http://www.amazon.com/Psychology-Astro- ... 102&sr=8-1

Jim Eshelman wrote:Is that essentially the same as the book that used to come with Astro-Cartography maps from Jim? Or is it significantly different? (I still have that one around here somewhere, I think. SHold dig around for it. Nice book.)

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:Is that essentially the same as the book that used to come with Astro-Cartography maps from Jim? Or is it significantly different?

I think it is different. I never got an official ACG map, but it would make sense that it came with a basic interpretive booklet. Correct me if I assume incorrectly.

"The Psychology of AstroCartography" here was published by Arkana, runs over 300 pages, and includes interps for natal paran crossings.

Had to look through it to answer your question, Jim. Had forgotten how much information was in there. I need to re-read it, pronto! (For general knowledge, mind you, as I am very happy here under natal Jupiter at relocated MC).

D.Donovan Kinsolving

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:Thanks for the extra tips. After reviewing, I don't think there are any places that would make things drastically different. Yeah, Saturn's a bit close to an angle, but eh...

Compounded when I tried to figure out what might be good based on my wife's chart too. Narrowed things down to Saint Petersburg Russia, and Anchorage Alaska. No thanks.

Has the makings for some cool vacation ideas though.

Freya wrote:do fixed stars apply in astrocartography or should I just look at the planets?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:do fixed stars apply in astrocartography or should I just look at the planets?

Honest answer: I don't know that anyone has investigated it. (I have Regulus rising in LA, but I don't know if that makes me seem more solar, or I just grew up <g>.)

Stick with the planets. They're solid. if you want to look at the fixed stars in this context, do that as an add-on after you've come to your primary conclusons.

Freya wrote:I have been trying to figure this out for some time now, and that is why I have never felt at home where I was born, and I always wanted to get away, which I managed to do after much struggle. In astrocatrtography, I cannot see anything negative except Algol descending in the location where I was born, which would explain everything.

Jim Eshelman wrote:There may not be anything wrong with where you are living. It may just be that there is someplace else calling out for you where you "need" to be.

Freya wrote:can that be seen through astrocartography?

Jim Eshelman wrote:Sure. That's what it's for. Search the world for the right place.

Freya wrote:if a country has a mars, saturn, neptune or pluto line running through it, should the whole country be avoided?

Jim Eshelman wrote:Well, don't include Pluto in that list unless it's afflicted.

No, not whole country. Just within orb of the lines.

Freya wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:Well, don't include Pluto in that list unless it's afflicted.

can I apply the same principle for any other planet, including the sun and moon, if the planet is afflicted in the natal chart?

Thanks for clarifying about the country

Jim Eshelman wrote:Yes. The broad principle is that people are happiest living where natal Sundays, Venus, Jupiter, or Uranus is on the angles, provided the planet isn't afflicted. Or you can pick a specific planet for a particular goal.

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim. Would Jupiter conjunct Neptune and sextile saturn in the natal chart make Jupiter afflicted in some way?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim. Would Jupiter conjunct Neptune and sextile saturn in the natal chart make Jupiter afflicted in some way?

Yes, it's aspects by two malefics. That's the basic definition of 'afflicted.' Besides, any place where the Jupiter is on an angle, Neptune would by angular also, right?

Venus_Daily wrote:I have Uranus/Mars on the DSC, cnj!
would Uranus alone be good, because I've felt that where I live at, currently, I've always been miserable, kind of like I've always been attacked.

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Venus_Daily wrote:I have Uranus/Mars on the DSC, cnj!
would Uranus alone be good, because I've felt that where I live at, currently, I've always been miserable, kind of like I've always been attacked.

If you can separate them, it would be better - together, they are accident prone etc. All of this depends on how close the aspect, how close one can be to an angle without the other being on an angle, etc.

Post your birthdata in this thread and I'll take a fast look.

Venus_Daily wrote:9/4/84 Kingsville Texas 11:44pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Venus_Daily wrote:9/4/84 Kingsville Texas 11:44pm

Actually, when I see how close it is, how strong it is, the sign it's in (where both are dignified), and its relation to your Sun, I'm not nearly as turned off to the Mars-Uranus idea. It could be a place of enormous strength, power, and effectiveness, especially if you could get the Sun angular at the same time (and, perhaps, the Sun stronger).

I'm wary of the Jupiter-Neptune, although, with your close Venus-Jupiter square, if the goal is relaxation, comfort, blissful leisure, then you might to for the Venus-Jupiter being exactly on the angle and the Neptune tagging along. (You didn't mention the Venus square to Jupiter: This benefic aspect is closer - only half the orb - and outweighs the Neptune affliction.)

Notice that these two clusters give a significant choice in the kind of life you want to life: Primarily striving, competing, pushing, innovating vs. primarily comfortable, lesurely, relaxing, indulging.

So what do we come up with? (You don't say what geographical parameters you find acceptable, so I'll go hog wild and let you sort it out.)

In the U.S., your Mars-Uranus line slices through the middle of the country on a curve from eastern Montana down through Louisiana. (At least this suggests that, if you aren't the shy type, you should go to Mardi Gras, alone, at least once! ) I'd prefer the Sun being joined for a permanent location, as mentioned before. I'd avoid Montana where Pluto is also mundanely on the angles: you have a triple Mars-Uranus-Pluto conjunction on the Descendant there.

Your Sun is on the IC in Boston. You might feel quite strong and bright there. (It then drops off into the Atlantic Ocean.) Your Jupiter and Neptune descending lines cut through the northeast in general, with JUpiter passing through New York City, and Neptune farther west (Toronto, then curving down toward Washington, DC, catching the western tip of NY and the middle of Pennsylvania.)

Someplace between Boston and NYC balances the presence of the Sun on the IC and Jupiter setting - a nice paran. To give perspective: Manhattan has Jupiter exactly setting, Venus less than 2 degrees from square the horizon, Neptune a few degrees below the Descendant, and Sun about 3 degrees from the IC. Boston, in contrast, has the Sun exactly obn the IC, Jupiter less than three degrees from the Descendant, Venus still 2 degrees from square the horizon (from the other side), and Neptune backed off quite a bit (8 degees by ecliptic and 5 degrees mundanel from the horizon). I think you could find Boston to be an amazing place to life and thrive (all the lesurely Venus-Jupiter & touch of Neptune side, but with your Leo Sun bang on the IC - "feeling at home," and finding the roots and flowering of your individuality.)

Maybe that's all the information you need. But let me through some other (possibly quirky) ideas at you.

VIETNAM. Your Mars-Uranus rising with your Sun on the Midheaven. Whoa, you could rule that place! <g>

ROME. Sun rising, Uranus on the IC, Mars slightly off. I suggest a glorious vacation there.

SYRIA. Jupiter on the MC down through the middle of the country, Neptune a bit off to the side. With careful selection, you could have an aura of protection there amidst all the explosions and gun-fire and blood-splatter. (But avoid Afghanistan where there's a Pluto line.)

PERU. Mars-Uranus setting, Sun on the IC. (Better than Ecuador, and especially "Middle Americas" in general, where it's just Mars-Uranus.)

Freya wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim. Would Jupiter conjunct Neptune and sextile saturn in the natal chart make Jupiter afflicted in some way?

Yes, it's aspects by two malefics. That's the basic definition of 'afflicted.' Besides, any place where the Jupiter is on an angle, Neptune would by angular also, right?

that's right. Unfortunately I have such confguration. Does it incline to bad luck? By bad luck I mean not having favourable circumstances in life

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim. Would Jupiter conjunct Neptune and sextile saturn in the natal chart make Jupiter afflicted in some way?

Yes, it's aspects by two malefics. That's the basic definition of 'afflicted.' Besides, any place where the Jupiter is on an angle, Neptune would by angular also, right?

that's right. Unfortunately I have such confguration. Does it incline to bad luck? By bad luck I mean not having favourable circumstances in life

What do I have to bribe you with to get you stop thinking in terms of good luck and bad luck? <g>

It means you can't have natal Jupiter come into play without Saturn and Neptune ideas come into play. If the Jupiter were on an angle it wouldmore likely mean you're a crook. (Strong material desires + bent ethics and willingness to do all sorts of things to meet the Jupiter greed.)

Danica wrote:Jim, while we are at the subject - what you think is the worst, and what the best I can expect of my natal Sun-Saturn oppos. on angles (in relocation chart)?
here's the chart: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=631
(Pluto is there too, but Sun-Saturn aspect is much closer)

Freya wrote:luckily I have nothing in the foreground, except chiron but it is not a planet....

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:

It means you can't have natal Jupiter come into play without Saturn and Neptune ideas come into play. If the Jupiter were on an angle it wouldmore likely mean you're a crook. (Strong material desires + bent ethics and willingness to do all sorts of things to meet the Jupiter greed.)

Yikes. I have angular neptune/saturn/jupiter...

Jim Eshelman wrote:Crook!

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:That really shatters my ability to play innocent.

Venus_Daily wrote:Thanks so much for the reply Jim,
Like I've mentioned before I have Neptune cnj Mars by progression, and it's now active and partile on my pr DSC. When pr Jupiter comes to the DSC by pr in 2018, will it still be influenced by its conjunction to Neptune and square to Venus?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Venus_Daily wrote:Thanks so much for the reply Jim,
Like I've mentioned before I have Neptune cnj Mars by progression, and it's now active and partile on my pr DSC. When pr Jupiter comes to the DSC by pr in 2018, will it still be influenced by its conjunction to Neptune and square to Venus?

Progressed planets are only responsive to partile aspects. If those planets don't form partile aspects to it, then... no.

Freya wrote:can solar fire calculate primary directions?

I have calculated my astro cartography chart, but I still can't figure out where the best place is as my Jupiter is afflicted... can anyone help?

Danica wrote:

Freya wrote:
I have calculated my astro cartography chart, but I still can't figure out where the best place is as my Jupiter is afflicted... can anyone help?

I would suggest Sun or Uranus lines.

Freya wrote:thank you Danica...which angle is best?

Danica wrote:

Freya wrote:thank you Danica...which angle is best?

maybe the more practical approach would be to look at the places themselves where SO or UR are angular (whatever angle) and decide according to that (is there a city/inhabited area, is it a war territory, or jungle, desert etc. - not sayin' those are not good, just that practical concerns such as these can be useful ).

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:I just noticed that my wife and I both have angular Venus running through Argentina. Her's goes right through Buenos Aires, the capital. Mine goes through the country west about 100 miles or so, I think. We both have Venus in Leo.

I went to Argentina when I was 19 and really loved it. I'm getting the intuition like it would be a good country for the 2 of us to spend time in (i.e., extended working vacations), pursuing our own life passions. Does that make sense with the astrology, or am I misinterpreting?

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:

Freya wrote:I have calculated my astro cartography chart, but I still can't figure out where the best place is

One place you don't go anywhere near is Oaxaca, Mexico!

Am I seeing that right: Sun/Pluto in the middle of India, Madhya Pradesh region maybe? A spiritual illumation is possible there, but much worse also. Be careful about that (think male power and domination gone bad, you get my drift?). You may find something powerful in religious traditions emanating from that particular region, like a particular guru, or the Hindu/Sikh/Jain/Buddhist/Sufi traditions, without your having to go there.

The practical advice given by the others is correct. Look at the astrological possibilities, clarify what you want out of it, then do hard research on living conditions, job opportunities, weather and climate, politics, transportation, etc.

The best thing I ever did was move under my Jupiter/MC line. There were reasons why I chose one particular city, and it was overall a good choice, I think. There are places north and south of here, but there are practical, non-astrological issues that are of concern to me: To the north, overcrowding and pollution, excessive religious influences, too-small towns, wilderness, excessively long and cold winters, that sort of thing. South of here are cultural and language differences, and um, nothing but water.

Did you post your birthdata? If so, I missed it.

-Derek

Freya wrote:Hi Derek,
I find interesting what you have to say because Mexico is a place that I have never had any desire to go to, and when I was offered the trip I declined due to a really bad "gut feeling". India is another place that I am wary of and that I do not particularly wish to go to. I don't like following gurus, plus I find India very dangerous (I agree with male power and domination gone bad...I had enough of that where I was born), although I see what you mean, the only Eastern philosophy I can relate to is Theosophy and certain aspects of Buddhism. So far astrocartography hasn't impressed me very much (this is from what I could see for myself as well) because I have no desire to relocate to third world countries.
Thanks for your help

Danica wrote:Jim, what's your advice regarding relocation where one turns from Mars-closest-to-angle (9°in mundo to ASC; it's the place of birth) to a place with this situation: Pluto closest to angle (conj. MC 05°30' in mundo), and making a T-square with exact Moon-Uranus opposition (which does not exist in the birth-place loc.), orb 2°from Pluto (both are thus about 7°from AC-DC axis) ?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Danica wrote:Jim, what's your advice regarding relocation where one turns from Mars-closest-to-angle (9°in mundo to ASC; it's the place of birth) to a place with this situation: Pluto closest to angle (conj. MC 05°30' in mundo), and making a T-square with exact Moon-Uranus opposition (which does not exist in the birth-place loc.), orb 2°from Pluto (both are thus about 7°from AC-DC axis) ?

First of all, the really significant effects, natal planets moving to local angles should be within 1-2°. I've seen very broad, general effects (of the "yeah, you can tell it's more prominent, but not much" sort) out to maybe 5°, but generally we're looking for that tight 1-2° band.

So - mostly - I wouldn't consider that there are any planets at all on the local angles in the example you gave. Based on angularity to the locality, I would't consider that anything is there.

There are a couple of things that might make the shift seem more important, though.

For example, if the Pluto is in the immediate background at the birthplace, it's probably close enough to "stand out" and be a stronger, more defining characteristic in the life - perhaps nothing more complicated that it seeming that the life has totally reinvented itself by moving to the new location, and that one is exposed to things outside the range of the sorts of experience one had (or could have had) at the birthplace.

The other is the emergence of new parans within 1-2°. When you say the Moon-Uranus opposition doesn't exist at birthplace, do you mean it's a paran? Especially given the lack of closely angular planets at the new locale, I'd pay much attention to parans within 1-2° at the new latitude.

Freya wrote:Jim,
what puzzles my about astrocartography is that the location of birth does not show whether it is good or not for the native. I have known four people, including myself, who wanted to get out of their country of birth as soon as possible because it felt very "toxic" to be in. When I cast the astrocartography chart, the lines branch out from the location of birth, which always looks like the best place to live. How can one reconcile cases like mine and the results of astrocrtography? I realize I don't know much about the subject and if you know the answer to this question it would be very much appreciated.

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:what puzzles my about astrocartography is that the location of birth does not show whether it is good or not for the native.

What's "good or not" depends on so many factors (even ignoring the arbitrariness of "good" and "bad"). For example, whether or not one's original family relationships are "good" will have a lot to do with how that location feels - and how it affects most people for the first many years of their lives.

Mostly, I think the birth location registers (especially in the infant's psyche, where original decisions are made that affect us long after) as "this is the world - this is how things are"; which, really, is an experiencing of oneself as the real context of one's life. I tend to think of locality astrology as showing what might get added when one also goes somewhere else - expanding the range of experience in life. (American Astrology had an insightful article on Gerald Ford soon after his assuming the presidency, showing how - since he spent most of his "growing up" time in a location other than his birthplace - incorporated into his permanent character the traits of the planet angular in that second formative location.)

Every location won't necessarily have a particular "meaning" in terms of locality astrology. One's distinctive experiences there are based on other factors, such as how one's character relates to the physical and psychological climate, and what relationships one has there.

In addition to all of the above, if one is long away from the birthplace then it does take on more of a distinctive "locality - going elsewhere" quality. One never loses what the birthchart shows, just gains in the new location; but, being long away, you can see how certain things fade. Using myself as an example: I was born with an angular Moon. I still have that temperament, I'm quite the lunar person even having lived 2,000 miles away for almost 40 years - but, when I occassionally return to my home town, I can feel that return to the angular Moon zone as if it's something brand new. It's hard for me to shield - I'm hyper-sensitive physically and empathically - the psychologically environment feels instantly different, as if it's denser, more humid (like the air! <g>). Some of this effect is, of course, related to family relationships in that place, and old memories stirring and having unconscious effects, etc. - but I can start to feel the effects when I step off the plane in Chicago (still a couple of hours from my home town), and I have none of those associations with Chicago. It's definitely the Moon line.

I have known four people, including myself, who wanted to get out of their country of birth as soon as possible because it felt very "toxic" to be in. When I cast the astrocartography chart, the lines branch out from the location of birth, which always looks like the best place to live. How can one reconcile cases like mine and the results of astrocrtography? I realize I don't know much about the subject and if you know the answer to this question it would be very much appreciated.

Freya wrote:Jim, I understand what you are saying. What I still cannot explain is why my birth location makes me physically ill (not psychologically), the doctors said my condition was chronic and there was nothing they could do about it. As soon as I stepped out of that country and went to the UK, my heath returned with no medication whatsoever. The doctor here didn't even notice I ever suffered from that condition because it has disappeared. I was expecting to see this pattern indicated in astrocartography, but it is not able do this. I guess it is one of its limitations.

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Jim, I understand what you are saying. What I still cannot explain is why my birth location makes me physically ill (not psychologically), the doctors said my condition was chronic and there was nothing they could do about it. As soon as I stepped out of that country and went to the UK, my heath returned with no medication whatsoever. The doctor here didn't even notice I ever suffered from that condition because it has disappeared. I was expecting to see this pattern indicated in astrocartography, but it is not able do this. I guess it is one of its limitations.

I don't know. We don't have your full birth data yet, so I can't offer a full opinion. (I understand that not everyone wants to give their full data in public.) Some "maybe" scenarios:

-- There could be something in the chart not yet detected. (For example, are their parans at birthplace that disappear at the new location? Was something in the immediate background in Italy that moved out of the background in England? I ask that especially because strong dynamic aspects in the background are often the key to health issues as "unexpressed strong dynamics in the psyche.")
-- Is there a climate effect? Some health issues resolve just because of climate change, different allergen exposure, or any number of environmental things.
-- Was there a significant psychological change (from bad to good) that accompanied the move? That certainly could impact health signficantly.

Freya wrote:thank you Jim.
To answer your questions as best as I can

-- There could be something in the chart not yet detected. (For example, are their parans at birthplace that disappear at the new location? Was something in the immediate background in Italy that moved out of the background in England? I ask that especially because strong dynamic aspects in the background are often the key to health issues as "unexpressed strong dynamics in the psyche.")

I am not sure about this. Neptune trine the ascendant disappears here (Andover, Hampshire UK), but as you told me, trines to the ascendant don't count. It looks pretty much the same

-- Is there a climate effect? Some health issues resolve just because of climate change, different allergen exposure, or any number of environmental things.
The climate here was supposed to make my condition worse. When I lived in New Jersey, especially in the winter, I still was very ill.

-- Was there a significant psychological change (from bad to good) that accompanied the move? That certainly could impact health signficantly.

No, it went from bad to worse, then it changed to good after my health was restored. I can't explain it, it feels like Saturn has finally released its grip on my health here, and I have been given a second chance to study and grow which was denied to me before (I won't go into detail here but I am not exaggerating).

Thank you for all your help Jim

Jim Eshelman wrote:Without inquiring unnecessarily into the exact health issues (but acknowledging that I might make a wrong call because of not knowing about them) - let's see what your chart says in that regard.

Natally, you have a close Mars-Saturn conjunction (being flared up this week BTW with Mars' transit) - in the sign of Saturn's exaltation and Mars' detriment. You also have a partile (11') Mercury-Pluto square, and a partile (19;) Moon-Venus square. I pick these out because all are in the background. Therefore, they represent strong, dynamic parts of your character demanding expression, but not likely to get expression because they are background.

One might estimate, in advance, that your greatest tendency to serious health issues would be described by Mercury-Pluto, Moon-Venus, and/or Mars-Saturn.

Movbing to Andover, the Mars-Saturn (especially the Mars) came right to the angle. Your Moon-Venus OTOH moves even more precisely into the immediate background. If your health issues were Moon-Venus, I would not expect it to get better (and possibly to get worse). OTOH, if your health issues are caused by your natal Mars-Saturn conjunction being suppressed and unexpressed, then I would expect that it would resolve as you owned, expressed, and finally gave serious voice to this very strong, long-resisted side of yourself.

Birthplace Parans
For your birthplace, you have the following parans. (Don't worry about what angles are involved. I list them just for reference.)

Jupiter (Asc) square Pluto (67')

Sun (Dsc) square Saturn (67') and Mars (68')
(The Mars and Saturn are not, themselves, within orb for this purpose, but the Sun sets just as they cross the Midheaven and actually hits their midpoint within 1' or less.)

Sun (IC) square Moon (Dsc) (13')

Venus (IC) square Mars (Dsc) (95')

Current Residence Parans

Jupiter (Asc) square Mars (MC) [16'], Saturn (MC) [119']

Sun (IC) square Moon (Dsc) [65'], Mars (Dsc) [65']
Moon (Dsc) conjunct Mars (Dsc) [130']
(The Moon-Mars paran-conjunction is probably too wide to count; except that, once more, the Sun is squaring into it, hitting the midpoint to the minute of arc!)

Venus (IC) square Saturn (Dsc) (23')

Uranus (Dsc) conjunct Pluto (Dsc) (33')

Freya wrote:Thank you so much Jim for taking the time to look into this. The health problems you mentioned, can they be found in the combination of stellar influences by Ebertin? I have it here but cannot find anything for mercury-pluto, so I can't tell you if it has changed or not.
According to this book, Mars-Saturn is bone problems, and moon venus is femminine problems, is that right?

Thanks

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:I see now that it's Pluto and Mercury (not the Sun) in paran in India, This puts a very different flavor on the matter, in the direction of intellectual attraction and repulsion, and lessens the threat of personal danger that could come with the Sun. But yes I know what you mean about living in a First World versus Third World country. If you're considering the whole world, then that's the kind of broad stroke many might apply immediately.

Trouble is, the most heavily popuated areas are on your malefic lines. Your benefic lines are in sparsely popualted areas. You have probably noticed this. Some exceptions: The Moon in southern California, Venus in Salt Lake City, and Uranus setting from Milwaukee through South Carolina. If you take any stock in Chiron, its rising line closely tracks Uranus setting, so we have - what? - alternative medicine, energy healing, teaching philosophy counter the prevailing paradigm?

Uranus on IC runs the Greece and the Slavic countries to the North. Perhaps you have no attraction to this area, either.

In Western Europe, your astrocartography is fairly quiet until you get to the UK, Spain and Portugal. Mars-Saturn-Pluto: forget it.

Another place to consider is Australia. For the 10AM birthtime, Mercury on the Decendent runs right along the whole eastern coast of Australia making it strongly angular in such major cities as Sydney and Newcastle and angular enough in Brisbane, Canberra and Melbourne. Education, teaching and writing (think: internet) would be highly favored here.

Venus on Desc is close to Adelaide, and while Sun-Desc and Jup-Asc don't hit any major cities on the southern coast, you could be a big fish in a small pond there. Look at the corresponding coastal hits on the north side; I don't know whether the climate there is agreeable, as I understand it's a lot more tropical.

The Sun and Venus lines bracket the Spencer Gulf region and it looks fairly well citified and modern. You may find the region empowering and congenial.

Avoid New Zealand much as you would Mexico. There's that pesky Mars-Saturn-Pluto combination again.

Ju-MC hits Vancouver Island, but there's just National Forests on that side.

By all means, get the astrocartography book mentioned earlier in this thread in order to fill out the interpretations, and use Google Maps, Wikipedia and tourist bureau web sites.

-Derek
[edit April 7, 2014]

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:

Freya wrote:When I cast the astrocartography chart, the lines branch out from the location of birth

Freya, I'm puzzled by this statement. If you're saying what I think, then be sure that you have Local Space Lines - Planet Directions unchecked, and instead check each of teh four Planet/Angle Lines options and click the In Mundo radio button.

-Derek

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Thank you so much Jim for taking the time to look into this. The health problems you mentioned, can they be found in the combination of stellar influences by Ebertin?

Don't know. That's good, but hardly comprehensive.

I have it here but cannot find anything for mercury-pluto, so I can't tell you if it has changed or not.

For that, I would suspect neurological or other nervous system (including cognitive) issues, if it came out as a health issue.

According to this book, Mars-Saturn is bone problems, and moon venus is femminine problems, is that right?

That's too narrow. You need a wide breadth of astrology and understanding health, body functioning, psyche-soma interaction, the way the body enacts metaphors of the psyche, etc.

For Moon-Venus, yes, I'd suspect something related to 'female' issues or, more broadly, hormonal imbalance issues.

For Mars-Saturn, it could be far more than that. Anything suppressing Mars, anything inflaming Saturn, bone functions for sure, inflammation profile issues in the broadest sense for sure, some cardio-vascular issues such as hypertension, stroke, etc., plus anything that puts you in a state of intense struggle (so, in theory, anything that is an abnormal exacerbation of the immune system, though I haven't seen examples of this or statistics on it, other than examples of inflammation-related diseases).

I'm not saying you'll have these. I'm saying that, whatever your health issue was (which you know, and I don't), these are the symbols that would enact it.

Freya wrote:Thank you for clarifying Jim. Yes, the Mars Saturn issues definitely have showed up throughout my life, although one of them is getting better since I have come here.

Jim Eshelman wrote:(so, in theory, anything that is an abnormal exacerbation of the immune system, though I haven't seen examples of this or statistics on it, other than examples of inflammation-related diseases).

if you are interested I can give you my example in a PM, four doctors here, including the specialist, had never seen it before because it is so rare.

Mercury pluto comes out as mild dyslexia.

Moon Venus....that's the odd one, it's the problem that has disappeared entirely, although I suspect to still have some vitamin/mineral deficiency.

Jim Eshelman wrote:I'm guessing your temperament has changed since you moved, and you are expressing your Mars-Saturn conjunction in behavior - at a level you haven't historically done in your life.

Moon-Venus: I almost mentioned that these are write on the Vertex (Antivertex & Northpoint). I wouldn't think this would undo the background effect, but possibly it does.

Freya wrote:

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:

Freya wrote:When I cast the astrocartography chart, the lines branch out from the location of birth

Freya, I'm puzzled by this statement. If you're saying what I think, then be sure that you have Local Space Lines - Planet Directions unchecked, and instead check each of teh four Planet/Angle Lines options and click the In Mundo radio button.

-Derek

Thank you Derek, I had a feeling I was doing something wrong.

I will definitely avoid the areas you mentioned, that is Mexico and New Zealand. As soon as I saw them I recognized why I never wanted to go there in the first place. I think I may have to endure the proximity of a Mars line if I want to live in Europe and in civilized countries. I did a lot of travelling to third world countries for humanitarian purposes, and after what I saw I swore to myself never to move to any of those places ever again. I got really ill in Burkina Faso with typhoid fever...that's when I stopped going.

Freya wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:I'm guessing your temperament has changed since you moved, and you are expressing your Mars-Saturn conjunction in behavior - at a level you haven't historically done in your life.

Yes, it has, including for the moon-venus issues. I have deliberately done this thanks to the study of astrology, which I have begun since I moved here.

Danica wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote: When you say the Moon-Uranus opposition doesn't exist at birthplace, do you mean it's a paran? Especially given the lack of closely angular planets at the new locale, I'd pay much attention to parans within 1-2° at the new latitude.

not sure if it's a paran.
this is the situation: I'm considering (as a long-term plan) Windsor, Ontario (Canada) as a place to relocate with my family.
the birth data given above are my daughter's. here is the natal chart:



and here's the relocated chart:


then I've looked at it in mundo, and noticed the mentioned factors (PL proximity to MC in mundo, and the Moon-Uranus opps.).
I calculate in mundo using the "Z-Analoque Prim. Vert." SF option, and can not make the prettier chart form (having the Gold version of SF); here's that chart:

Jim Eshelman wrote:There's an error in the relocation map, it seems. You have the same time on both charts, but in different time zones. Ther 10:38 AM CET would be 4:38 AM EST, with a Midheaven of 3 Virgo 10. Pluto is just within three degrees of the Eastpoint, and Uranus is exactly square the 13 Sco 47 Ascendant.

In any case, what you showed in the PV chart above might be termed a "mundane aspect." It looks like it might also be a paran, though, so we can check:

Pluto MC 265°19'
Uranus Asc 258°43'
Moon Dsc 256°33'

Pluto doesn't really make the T, but there is a slightly wide Moon-Uranus paran opposition at that latitude.

While I have the chart up, here are the other parans for Windsor:

Venus conj. Sun (setting together, 87')
Mars opposite Jupiter (in RA, thus MC and IC: 24')
Mercury conjunct Venus (in RA, thus MC and IC: 43')
Sun (MC) sq. Jupiter (Dsc), 11'
Uranus (MC) sq. Pluto (Dsc), 1'

Freya wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:Moving to Andover, the Mars-Saturn (especially the Mars) came right to the angle. Your Moon-Venus OTOH moves even more precisely into the immediate background.

Jim, did you see this with a relocation chart? Do you think it is dangerous to travel this week, since my mars-saturn conjunction is affected by Mars transit?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:Moving to Andover, the Mars-Saturn (especially the Mars) came right to the angle. Your Moon-Venus OTOH moves even more precisely into the immediate background.

Jim, did you see this with a relocation chart? Do you think it is dangerous to travel this week, since my mars-saturn conjunction is affected by Mars transit?

"Dangerous" might be too strong a word. Just be careful. Hiding from such things just limits life too much IMHO.

How does your lunar return look?

Freya wrote:I think it looks awful.... however so far nothing major has happened, I have been very stressed, but nothing else, that is why I asked about travelling. I am worried about the mars- saturn conjunction near the midheaven. It looks horrible

Danica wrote:Jim, thank you for doing the analysis for me.

Jim Eshelman wrote:There's an error in the relocation map, it seems. You have the same time on both charts, but in different time zones. Ther 10:38 AM CET would be 4:38 AM EST, with a Midheaven of 3 Virgo 10.

it seems that I was doing it all wrong, then!
thinking more on this gets me into metaphysics of Time-Space continuum...

so, in practice, for calculating reloc. chart, what I'm doing is this: translating the time-of-birth for the birth location into UT, and then translating it into 'another' time (differently quantified/expressed time) for another location and stating which 'language' i.e. time-zone I use now. is that correct?

Jim Eshelman wrote:Unless this doesn't work on your version of SF, you shold just be able to pick the chart in the Calculated Charts list, press Shift+F12 (or click Locality on the first drop-down menu), enter a new city, and be done. It will take care of the time adjustments.

Or, manually, yes: Keep the same UT but the new place. OR just put in the birth time and birth time zone along with the new locality longitude and latitude.

Danica wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:Unless this doesn't work on your version of SF, you shold just be able to pick the chart in the Calculated Charts list, press Shift+F12 (or click Locality on the first drop-down menu), enter a new city, and be done. It will take care of the time adjustments.

Eureka! it works!!
praise be the Lords of Solar Fire!

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:I ran a chart for NYC (I loved living there), and got Uranus about 2 degrees from MC, and Mars about 6 degrees. Should the Mars angularity be a concern? I was a little crazy when I lived there, but then again, I was in a cult. I also overindulged in alcohol a few times, but then again, I was in my early 20s...

Jim Eshelman wrote:

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:I ran a chart for NYC (I loved living there), and got Uranus about 2 degrees from MC, and Mars about 6 degrees. Should the Mars angularity be a concern? I was a little crazy when I lived there, but then again, I was in a cult. I also overindulged in alcohol a few times, but then again, I was in my early 20s...

I think it just means "wild and crazy." Uranus is the main issue. I really haven't noticed local angle contacts showing effects - even "thin" ones - past 5 degrees.

Freya wrote:How effective is a relocation chart to determine the suitability of a place, as opposed to astrocartography?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:How effective is a relocation chart to determine the suitability of a place, as opposed to astrocartography?

They're exactly the same thing. Just different ways of portraying the same information. (Astro-Cartography is like laying out a thousand or so separate locality charts and being able to see it all at a glance.)

Freya wrote:thank you

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote:I think it just means "wild and crazy." Uranus is the main issue. I really haven't noticed local angle contacts showing effects - even "thin" ones - past 5 degrees.

Thanks. My main motivation here (though this is just long-term fantasizing/planning) is my wife. She has angular Neptune near her IC based on her birth in Florida. On the west coast, it's angular Saturn near the MC. I recently realized that moving to Portland placed Saturn in direct conjunction with my wife's MC. It's still tough for her here after 4 years--feeling "on her own", eking out an existence etc.

She has no strong angularity in NYC--her Venus moves to about 6 degrees of Asc.

I know we keep our birth chart wherever we go. But if a place doesn't have strong angularity, would it be more of a "clean slate" effect, or would her natal angular Neptune be "strengthened" or back to "original levels"? I.e., is relocation angularity an "additive" effect, or is there also a "neutralizing/subtractive" effect?

Jim Eshelman wrote:If there is nothing on the angles in a place, it doesn't mean anything in and of itself - in fact, that's the point! It just doesn't add anythng in that way.

She does, though, probably have different parans at that latitude.

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:Parans are a new topic for me. I'm definitely going to have to get myself fully educated in astrology.

Jim Eshelman wrote:

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:Parans are a new topic for me. I'm definitely going to have to get myself fully educated in astrology.

In Solar Fire, do a natal chart for the location, and open it up. On Reports, pick Star Parans. Set the orb at 0. This will leave a list if the rising, setting, culminating, and anticulminating RAMCs for each planet.

Click Copy, then paste into an Excel spread sheet and massage it to get a sorted table.

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:Thanks! I'll have to get solar fire first.

Freya wrote:Parans is something that I need to look into as well. I am not sure how to read them yet. I recall seeing an excel spreadsheet template on this forum, but I have forgotten where it is exactly.

Just to make sure we are on the same page with the definition of paran; would the following be correct?

Paranatellonta are stars or star groups that fall upon angles at the same time that a significant constellation or planet is also upon the angles. They are viewed as attendants. In ancient astrology the term was also applied to the constellations that ascended with the zodiacal decans.

In modern astrology the term Paran (short for Paranatellonta) is generally used to describe stars or planets that are angular as a planet hits the ascendant, MC, Descendant or IC. For example, the parans of Mercury would be those stars or planets that were rising, culminating, descending of located upon the IC at the same time that Mercury is in any or those positions. Thus if the fixed star Regulus culminates on the Midheaven as Mercury rises on the ascendant it is referred to as a paran of Mercury and considered to have an influence upon its meaning.

SteveS wrote:I have done no research with star parans—only parans with planets. Quoting from the book ‘Primer of Sidereal Astrology’:

When two or more planets are simultaneously on the same, adjacent, or opposite angles they are said to be in paranatellonta (paran). This is the most powerful of all astrological configurations. Natal planets may enjoy no mutual zodiacal aspect but may be in paranatellonta at certain times of the day. Such natal configurations are particularly important when they fall on the angles of a return map whether cast for the birthplace or for the place of residence. A change in residence can alter the formation of paranatellonta.

One of the best detailed explanations of Parans I have read comes from Jim’s book ‘Interpreting Solar Returns’. My individual research with Parans has definitely proven to my mind they are indeed ‘the most powerful of all astrological configurations’, and in several cases a natal chart will have hidden or ‘potential’ parans not recognized because they are not in a standard zodiacal aspect, the same would apply to return charts. From a relocational standpoint, ‘potential’ parans in a natal chart presents a most intriguing field of possibilities for desired planetary manifestations pertaining to one’s personal psychological attitude, but one must definitely use practical business applications before making a bold re-locational move to test a ‘potential’ paran. I was born with Jupiter rising and my astrograph Jupiter line dissected Atlanta Georgia where I did most of my business for my career, before I knew anything about astrology. The industry from which I earned my living later closed all of their Atlanta branches and relocated their branches to Dallas TX which just so happened to place my Natal conjunction of Saturn-Pluto into a MC Paran in Dallas. When this major corporate business relocation occurred-- it marked in my life the end of my career—my career business Jupiter line over Atlanta was taken away by corporate forces outside my control and it completely changed my entire business attitude from a strong Jupiter attitude to a powerful Saturn attitude. So- by my limited experiences with relocational astrology and planetary psychological manifestations-- I do indeed believe—‘A change in latitude can/could change your attitude.’

Freya wrote:

When two or more planets are simultaneously on the same, adjacent, or opposite angles they are said to be in paranatellonta (paran). This is the most powerful of all astrological configurations. Natal planets may enjoy no mutual zodiacal aspect but may be in paranatellonta at certain times of the day

Hi Steve, thank you for clarifying that. Are planetary parans aspects in mundo?

Jim Eshelman wrote:

Freya wrote:Are planetary parans aspects in mundo?

They could be called that - as one variety of in mundo aspect. (And I'm sure I've used it that way on occassion.)

However, it might be confusing to call them that. (And, in any case, they're only one type of theoretical in mundo aspect, and not the one most often meant historically, especially with the literature on classic Placidus-based primary directions.)

Freya wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote: (And, in any case, they're only one type of theoretical in mundo aspect, and not the one most often meant historically, especially with the literature on classic Placidus-based primary directions.)

Thank you Jim. what is the traditional definition of an aspect in mundo?

cesatio nulus wrote:Here's a link to the handy Jim Lewis interpretive booklet:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48191491/Dona ... artoGraphy

UmeFlower wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:02 pm Do the moon's nodes have an effect in relocation astrology?