Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Danica suggested I salvage my posts from Solunars.net, but I will only salvage the most important ones. I will not report everything but rather refresh the topic anew with some new ideas.

I once wrote about how traditional astrologers described Sidereal Scorpio with many negative terms. The constellation itself was considered unlucky from the dawn of astrology and its ruler, Mars, was often associated with violence, bloodshed, insurrections, plagues from venomous "reptiles" and "insects" of all sorts etc. I find it interesting observing tropical astrologers, though, as they describe Tropical Sagittarius as very positive and beneficial to other people, ruled by joyous benefic Jupiter and all that. The modern interpretation of Sidereal Scorpio is much more positive. Fagan says Sidereal Scorpio rarely has malice while Gleadow says Sidereal Scorpios today are "more fun than they used to be".

I find an interesting contrast with Sidereal Libra and Tropical Scorpio. Tropical astrologers seem to have taken Scorpio's old bad reputation to heart and then try their hardest to compensate for it. They will acknowledge Tropical Scorpio as being violent, treacherous, amoral, domineering etc. but then will effuse praise for it being so mysterious and deep, turning it into a New Age Mary Sue of sorts. I find an interesting dissonance with the theory of Tropical Scorpio versus my own experience of Sidereal Libra. I find Sidereal Libras to actually be very moral people, conscientious, with strong principles, placing a lot of emphasis on integrity, and tending to be rather mild in their behavior. The only "shadow sides" I see in Sidereal Libra is a tendency to be very judgmental towards people who don't meet their high rigid moral standards and a too strong adherence to karma (the whole what goes round comes around mentality).

By contrast my experiences with Sidereal Scorpios ("happy go lucky Sagittarians") has been volatile and tricky, especially with Scorpio Moons. Women who have Scorpio Moons are, IMO, massive drama queens, quick to strike with harsh criticisms and "truth bombs", while living turbulent and unhappy lives. On the plus side these same Scorpio Moon women are very warm and have the largest hearts, often meaning well but using harsh methods to achieve their good intentions.

Sidereal Scorpio Suns seem cold and distant by contrast. While a Scorpio Moon seems very out there with their inner turmoil a Scorpio Sun keeps their distance and takes great pains to mask their emotional life, to keep it private. Make no mistake, a Scorpio Sun will speak brutally about things like their opinions on politics and will act as much, but when it comes to more private things in their life and more vulnerable emotions they are very cagey. Scorpio women, in my experience, tend to more coldly ignore or rebuff you than other women if they don't want your advances. Thankfully, being with Scorpio Suns is at least easier but they are harder to read.

by Jim Eshelman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:00 pm
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Yes, something I didn't mention yesterday... The value judgments here are, I think, primarily mass mind response to certain ideas. We have the cultural idea that being a Mars person, and especially being a powerful Mars person, is bad, (There is ambivalency: People want to be powerful, don't trust themselves if they were powerful, and certainly don't trust other people who are powerful.)

The Judeo-Christian snake mythology doesn't help. (Other cultures' snake mythologies are different.)

Even kindly Scorpios like Woody Allen and Danny DeVito are regarded weirdly (and, in fact, built their shtick on it). Bruce Lee held people in awe at his power, and his gracious Libra Moon probably is what made it easiest for him to become a cultural icon of admired masculinity or unstoppable power, rather than primarily feared. Jim Morrison is admired and yet simultaneously minimized to the image of a weird, troubled, messed up guy who ended badly. The likes of Ted Bundy are rare among lists of Scorpios. Frank Sinatra built his image on an impression of gangster associations and "Rat Pack" tough guy (opposite his real character) almost as much as on his amazing musical gifts.

Part of this, I think, is that what flows through Scorpio - essentially unblemished purity of Mars - is something within which our culture has a very ambivalent relationship. People en masse are troubled by it (in fact, are troubled by anyone who "lets it all flow" dynamically in any area - but especially in terms of physical and sexual power).

You spoke of reputations and impressions, so I thought it didn't to be said that reputations and impressions are rarely based on the person themselves, but are more a reflection of everyone else's response to what that person represents to them. But maybe it does need to be said.

While there were four U.S. Presidents with a Scorpio Sun (two of whom died in office), it's really interesting to me how many unsuccessful presidential candidates there have been, especially in recent years when so many of the candidates have had Scorpio and/or Taurus luminaries. These people are powerful and amazing enough to catch the public imagination and get nominated, and then are not the people that people elect. From the start of the country, we have the likes of John Jay. Mid-century we had the obvious case (that never made it as far as an election) of Bobby Kennedy. More recently we have, for example, Howard Dean and John Kerry (plus VP Biden, who was a failed presidential nominee that then got the VP nod, and isn't expected to have any greater success in later campaigns). Dean and Biden are fabulous examples of speaking their mind boldly (a trait Kerry doesn't share) - add Gov. Christie to that list with his Scorpio Moon.

BTW, Scorpio Moon has similar patterns - much more so than we usually see in Sun-sign vs. Moon-sign for the same sign. Just some quick one-liners:

DeVito and Bundy - same as above
Nicole Kidman - in a woman, it shows as bristling sexuality & admiration mixed with a popular trend not to trust her personally, to hold back
Al Pacino - tough guy image like Sinatra
Albert Einstein - holds people in awe, lampooned for his appearance and mannerisms in almost a Woody Allen sense
Mozart - Much like Einstein, awe and admiration, and a popular sense that focuses more on his being wild and crazy and unpredictable
Beethoven - Like Mozart and Einstein but more withdrawn, reclusive - and almost impossible to find an extensive biography that doesn't insist on hinting he was some sort of pervert
Christopher Reeve - the world's Superman, made safe (and let into people's hearts) not by his strength but by his disability (he was 'safe' to mass mind then)
Donald Trump - an example of the public being very disparaging of someone both for his behavior, inability to ever say the right thing, and for having too damn much money (compared to other people with more money who are not disparaged at all)

Recent presidential candidates include Al Sharpton and Mitt Romney.

A friend of mine, who is one of the leading female litigators in the country, has a Scorpio Moon. Her professional biography pointedly cites that Corporate Board Member Magazine called her "The Meanest Woman Alive."

Bottom line: I think you are correctly identifying a mass-mind reaction to certain traits. These say more about the human acculturated mind in general than it says about the Scorpios.

And my modern response to Jim is one of general agreement. A lot of Mars traits are villainized in the modern world as it is dominated by hypocritical "slave morality". I do not mean to say that Scorpio Sun or Moon people are bad in any way. I think most care about other people a lot but it seems to come more from just feeling that way about someone as opposed from a moral standpoint. I think they are amoral at heart. - Do not confuse with immoral! - Even if they preach a moral code they can't help but act the way they want to, which other people may interpret as being hypocritical or flighty. As Nietzsche (Scorpio Moon and ASC) might put it, the individual's wants are stronger than society's laws and the body is far realer than any abstraction like philosophy, law, or morals."

Other people's comments in the old thread include...
by Veronica on Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:55 am
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While my sun is in Aquarius, and I have Gemini rising, I also have the moon, mars, Jupiter and Neptune in Scorpio.

In reading this thread here I wanted to say that in my own life, in how I relate with others and how others relate to me, I have had huge challenges because I am very forceful, strong willed, challenging, deep but seductive, attractive and captivating. I see these as fantastic qualities which have gifted me with deep insight into my own nature and human nature in general.

It does mean though that I also repel away anybody who is not willing, not capable of coping with my brutally honest ways of expressing myself and my perceptions. Which means I get a lot of men sniffing around but who won't be able to engage me in any type of a real relationship, one of depth and character.

It also means that females are for the most part either empowered by my friendship, gaining strength and embracing the feminine transformative nature; or they are threatened by my stark naked sexuality, my self empowered " I don't care what you think, I'm gonna be me", my aggressive nature to go after what I want, and my spiritual foundation that empowers my belief that my TrueWill guides me and not some priest/man.

I personally think that I am obe of the kindest most selfless people around. I volunteer, do lots of community service, help my family all the time, actively participate in causes to help women and children and environmental issues. I am thoughtful and cobciderate of others feelings and often bit my tounge because I have an understanding that most people are wrapped up in themselves so much that they can't hear my insights and that it would be unsettling to them to receive my deep reflected analogies and metaphors....just wasted words.

I do have an aspect of my persoba though that is tough as nails, severe and some may say cruel. Death is a blessing for some I think, and some fools need to have there head wacked with the reality stick. I am not squeamish, and while I might look like a cute little innocent girlie girl I am profient in self defense and warfare tactics, weapons and strategy.

I don't know for sure how my scorpioness compares with someone who has it for a sun sign, and I am sure my ascendant has much to do with my childlike innocent nature, playful happy, kind, loving, hospitable.....

by FlorencedeZ. on Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:26 pm
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Veronica, this is very interesting what you wrote.
I tend to believe the more planets one has in Scorpio the stronger and assertive one is? While my sun is in Libra, moon in Scorpio and mars in Gemini I do identify much more with my Libra sun. But then I have aspects that hold my Scorpio moon energy back I think (close angular Mars/Sat opposition) and also because moon and sun are in adjacent signs I do struggle with the polarity of being a lover vs a fighter. The angular Jupiter is my savior I think . In general my friends tell me that I am strong but that it would benefit me to be more assertive. That is indeed how it feels. (e.g. the energy builts up underneath and can erupt like a volcano)

by jamescondor on Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:52 pm
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Scorpio luminary people I know well:
My older brother Sean (by 2 yrs 8 months) has Scorpio moon.
My closest friend Alex of 12 yrs has Scorpio moon
My last two serious girlfriends-Erika-Scorpio moon; Meredith Scorpio Sun
My closest friend from high school ,Matt, has Scorpio Sun
My newest guy friend Eric of 2 yrs has both Scorpio Sun and moon
(Side note: all are double hub constellations of sun/moon)

Characteristics I notice:
soft spoken voices but only in public places. Introverted but only in public. Not extroverted at all unless comfortable

They all talk down about people they know and don't know. They have all said things directly to my face usually along the lines of a "you don't know how to....or you can't.. in a mean way. Always subjective though. And they all have interrupted me consistently during conversations usually rudely and especially with woman. They are all jealous types. They don't share emotions much and when they do it seems unemotional but very deeply real to them. Big on experiences.

The men don't try pick up woman, at least apparently, or even initiate flirtation. Shy. Its almost like they're waiting to get hit on or the right time/opportunity. Calculative. Selective in practice but they all obsess and crush on the same person for extended periods of time. The woman aren't exactly feminine stereotypically or masculine but usually sexy in movement and voice. Maybe come off as teases but mostly just competitive and jealous or trying to make one jealous. Direct in bed, assume the position types. Handcuffs. Controlling, dominance. Foreplay. But not anything goes. From my experience anyways. Hot skin to the touch.

They all explode at times directly at me about past built up things. They all hold things in until red in the face. They haven't held grudges against me at least. They need space when they need it and you will know.
They are all assertive if they want something. Strong willed. Actions are easy but they aren't terribly athletic or physically enduring. Not in good physical shape. More sprinters than marathon runners. More specialized with a specific area like shot put, discuss, pitching, quarterback, golf, dancing, yoga. They all say things like social or political aphorisms and come off as experts while doing so but when you contradict them they aren't good at a follow up response. Not objective more subjective. Not intellectuals but don't need to be to get where they're going. More scientific- Biology, Genetics, physical therapy. Artistic- drawing, painting, arts and crafts but not really original or creative. Bad at theory and concepts. Uninterested?

Strong tolerance of drugs. Can drink forever almost without changing them. Can all eat allot too but get full fast. Binge eaters and drinkers. Gain and loose weight easily. Not sympathetic or compassionate but can be generous with giving- but not sharing.

We all get along relatively well for the most part. Easy to tolerate. Not loud, annoying or obnoxious to me. Not easy to fault or judge. Solid and steady but not terribly reliable. Fun but not entertaining. Don't make excuses or escape because they don't put themselves in that situation. Not deeply grounded but also heads not in the clouds. I don't think they're mysterious but it seems like they all have a deep secret. Don't know if they are sensitive or just self conscious especially about impressions and not exploding. I can go on but will stop here.

by Jim Eshelman on Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:08 pm
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LOL, James, that all boils down to: Lotsa Mars and nothing else.

And I think that does cover the basics. What we have to work with kn Scorpio attributes is that it is like Mars (no other planets dignified here - all Mars, all the time) and is unlike Moon and Venus (the planets dignified in Taurus). And it's a Hub.

The appearance of secretiveness is simply more Mars: That is, it is strategic. "Don't show your weaknesses, don't leave ammunition behind for someone to collect and use against you. Along the way, collect notes on others' weaknesses for when you need them.

It's all war. War and sex. All Mars, all the time.

by FlorencedeZ. on Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:01 pm
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I still have a hard time about some of the things that were written here in this post. It feels like when for example Nicole Kidman has the moon in Scorpio it shows as bristling sexuality & admiration mixed with a popular trend not to trust her personally, to hold back that this would be the case for all female moons in Scorpio. As if people are fearful of all Scorpio moons. Or the attorney friend with a Scorpio moon being voted the meanest person alive. As if every Scorpio moon is in fact mean or has it ingrained in their personality. Jim, you mentioned so often that it depends on the chart as a whole, the luminaries, the aspects, foreground, middleground, background and so on. Also I believe there is a lot of difference in personality between a Scorpio sun and moon. I have read before that the sun is your core personality, your character and the moon is who you would like to be, that which you show to the outside world but not necessarily who you are. This post makes it as if there are no core differences but all mars, unbridled mars. The famous persons with having Scorpio luminaries represent a non mainstream personality. Wouldn't it be fairer to compare notes with at least hundreds of people having Scorpio luminaries? I mean, I certainly do not see any similarities between the Scorpio moon of Donald Trump and my father, brother, many friends and neither myself with Scorpio moons.

by jamescondor on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:13 pm
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You sound like me in the past so i can relate. I will try to help. I am specifically focusing on the Scorpio constellation within the individual because that's what the post is about. And Mars rules Scorpio so you need to mention Mars when speaking Scorpio. My brother Sean for example has Sun in Taurus, Moon in Scorpio, Mars in Aries. His closest aspect is Sun-Uranus and off the top of my head don't remember his other closer aspects and I don't know if he has any planets foreground. But anyways, regardless, I will work with the info I have when analyzing his chart. So when looking at his chart as a whole, I look at the bigger picture- the forest. And I've known him for almost 30 years so I know him relatively well and am confident about his characteristics. Being around him for so long and knowing his chart, I am able to extract information. When looking at separate data which makes up a chart- like planets, aspects and signs, I look more at details- the trees in the forest. Its like adding and subtracting variables. At times extracting data. Other times i just meditate on the concepts while simultaneously focusing on reality and practice. The fixed variable in this case would be Scorpio.
Jim does explain it all very well on this forum on how to look at charts. I don't know where the post is exactly but look for it and then practice it. It can be difficult for sure and you will make mistakes but you will also get better at. It's still difficult for me. I continue learning and don't know it all if that were even possible.

Then the infamous Tina came along and gave her "interesting" two cents, seemingly justifying the old astrologers' opinion on Scorpio.
by Tina on Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:43 am
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If you approach them from a psychological perspective you realize that this is psychopathy.
The Profile of the Sociopath

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Scorpio is a very interesting constellation but when i see them in human perspectives, i cannot transfer them into an astrological study or say hey they're martian, that's why they're problematic. Hate in our world is problematic. Hateful scorpio shouldn't be the one who purges us. Still their intentions are so cruel that they manage to purge us under their weight. Mars is energy and they almost always use their energy wrong. Still not able to understand because aries the other mars sign can use their power for the finer things. I believe the opposite of that. Scorpio is actually old and decrepit, they are the ones that should be cleansed in the first place. Whatever their roots are.

by FlorencedeZ. on Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:18 pm
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The Scorpio people I have been friends with are one of the kindest, lovable, deep and human people I have known. They all are tireless, dynamic and smart with a heart of gold.
You may want to look at the following chart of one of my kindest friends, a very talented musician. He's a double Hub and has Venus emphasized as it is stationary.
(I am sorry I am unable to upload the chart from SF)
talented musician:
dec 4, 1962, 2.00am, Geleen, the Netherlands
Regards,
Florence

by Jim Eshelman on Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:38 pm
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Tina wrote:
I have a scorpio inside my family and let me tell you, they never reveal their true character in the outside world. They are scorpionic in private. A psychopath is someone that lives in psychopathy in every breath, not someone that falls on crisis every once in a while. This is the distinction that makes them sick. And the fact that in practice they are psychologically disturbed shouldn't be attributed to Mars. What are your opinions?

I might be misreading you... but it sounds like you are saying that this withholding characteristic of Scorpio is a pathology. Any character trait can become pathological if taken to sufficient extreme, but this trait pattern, by itself, isn't pathological.

I think the trait is very much Mars factor. It's a military tactic: learn everything you can about others, disclose as little as possible about yourself, be prepared if a battle arises. Those Scorpions who are most known for their kindness only feel comfortable being that way because they know they have themselves protected and ready should the situation become insecure.

One big key to Scorpio is: How safe do they feel in a particular environment, around particular people? They do become more extreme when around people they consider unsafe.

Tina wrote:
A Mars tactic? If you forget about Mars, how would you call that tactic? How would you feel towards a person that behaves like an agent eager to destroy you? *STING* you as they say. In private this family member rarely spits any kind words or feelings, everything about her is just dark enmity. And why wouldn't a fellow martian Aries plan to fok up your existance, or aim their spiteful words to shame you? No... Just NO.

First, why should I forget about Mars? We're talking about Scorpio. The only things we know a priori about Scorpio is that it is of the nature of Mars, is unlike the nature of Venus, and is unlike the nature of Moon. Mars is the starting point.''

Second, of course it's a tactic - a military tactic. No need to repeat how I described it above.

Third, you are describing one particular Scorpio and seem to be trying to lay that at the foot of all of them. I'm hardly ignorant of their nature, having (for example) lived with a double Scorpio for about 40 years.

Fourth we don't have the rest of the chart of that one particular Scorpio.

Fifth, Aries is different because it is inherently solar as well as martial. Scorpio is not. Aries also is un-Saturnian. Scorpio is not.

Sixth, a person wired to respond defensively to a perception of unsafely is surely going to feel less safe around an Aries than around most other people. (You probably recognize he same threat potential from the opposite side of that dynamic.)

Finally, Scorpio has not given a seemingly endless stream of mass murders and genocidal dictators. That would be Aries

by Bogdan574 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:45 am
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What is with Scorpio and the low statistic women of achievement? You once talked about how Libra is the full flowering of feminism, which is interesting and explains a lot. On the other hand, what "problem" does Scorpio have with women or feminism, if any?

I know Scorpio is ruled by Mars, which usually stereotypically associated with masculinity. But Scorpio was always considered a nocturnal or "female" sign. Furthermore, Mars is nocturnal and therefore "female" itself. There's also the loaded feminine symbolism the serpent has. That is weird and doesn't add up with the low statistic of women of achievement. How come?

by Jim Eshelman on Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:38 am
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Bogdan574 wrote:
What is with Scorpio and the low statistic women of achievement? You once talked about how Libra is the full flowering of feminism, which is interesting and explains a lot. On the other hand, what "problem" does Scorpio have with women or feminism, if any?

Scorpios - especially Scorpio women - don't play by the rules. They won't be fenced in by them. People who don't play by polite rules do not get sweet "promising youth" awards.

Possibly since you are not from the U.S., this term "young women of achievement" [you left out the word "young"] doesn't have a cultural context. (I'm not sure if this sort of thing is done in your part of the world.) It is common for civics organizations - such as a local chamber of commerce, a Rotary Club or similar civics club - top take late teens or early '20s young men and women and give a annual award for the one in their community that they think has the most promising future - "future business leader in our community," etc. It is from these groups, and this type of award, that the data was gathered for the "young men and women of achievement" statistics.

The people who win these awards, on average, do indeed have excellent abilities and promise. Of at least equal importance is that they are clean cut, sharp, well-mannered, "play by the rules," "fit right in," to give these local business and civics organizations a sense that these are future members for their own groups, and that the groups will not likely be embarrassed by the future behavior of the young person.

And... as I said... Scorpio women just don't fit in! (The men fit in a bit better because it's OK for them to be jocks and jokesters and "attaboy" team players, etc. - just like a big sports team moved into the business world.)

I know Scorpio is ruled by Mars, which usually stereotypically associated with masculinity. But Scorpio was always considered a nocturnal or "female" sign. Furthermore, Mars is nocturnal and therefore "female" itself. There's also the loaded feminine symbolism the serpent has. That is weird and doesn't add up with the low statistic of women of achievement. How come?

As mentioned in another thread, I think it a really serious mistake to use these gender categorizations for the signs. Scorpio is Mars - plain and simple - and mars is cock and balls, bustling muscles, competition, adrenaline. Scorpio women, ultimately, have characters just as much driven by their metaphorical cock and balls as Scorpio men.

by Jupiter Sets At Dawn on Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:13 am
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Bogdan, go to wikipedia, type in the date, say for instance November 16th, and click the list of people born on that date. Then do the same for the 17th and so on. You can then go through and make lists of traits each of them have, and make your own study of What Scorpio Is Like and report back with the facts, and how they match up with your speculations.

I can see you're trying to do this, but you're going on anecdotal evidence. You need something bigger to work with than a few people you know and a few a couple other people know.

Don't make up a list of traits and then try to check each personality off against them. Let the biographies tell you what the traits you're looking at are. Somebody with venus foreground might be described as sweet. That's a trait you'd have to list and count up how many times it shows up in descriptions of other people born while the Sun is in Scorpio. I doubt you'll find it a trait most of the Scorpios have in common, but you need to work from the evidence, taking care not to make the evidence fit what you want to find.

Jim is right, this kind of thing has been done before. But not, I think, with this particular source of data. You might actually add something to our understanding of Sun in Scorpio. Some depth, maybe rather than breadth.

What do you think? Are you up to the challenge?

Regarding Tina, I of course don't think Scorpios are psychopaths. But I understand what she is responding to. I have seen a lot of tropical astrology threads where people complained about dating different signs. I do see a common thread in their complaints about Tropical Sagittarius. What they're reacting to is Mars taken to its worst extremes as follows:

Generally, the planet Mars is strong-willed and egotistical, not afraid to get dirty to achieve a result. The intellect is sharp of course but rashness and a pragmatic worldview with little regard to abstract concepts like peace and altruism is common. A lack of self control, manipulative behavior, and abusiveness are Mars taken to its worst extreme. Generally Mars has little romantic and intimate feeling so sex to Mars is more about releasing sexual tension and overpowering another person than anything lovey-dovey. And while Mars is bold it can get full of itself, full of bluster but with little substance underneath.

So while Mars gifts its avatars with many strong traits it also bears them with many difficulties, as it is a malefic after all. It is similar to how one tropical astrologer described Jupiter as giving Tropical Sagittarius many gifts but requiring it to pass many trails to benefit from them. More mainstream tropical astrologers will often associate Tropical Sagittarius with concepts like creative force and victory in a mighty struggle, which is all Mars really.

So in conclusion. No, Sidereal Scorpio Sun and Moon people tend to be far from bad. They're just a little hot to handle, even for themselves.