Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Regarding natal background planets and people's ways of dealing with them,

Jim Eshelman wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:39 amThere is usually an overcompensating element much as there can be with a Saturn aspect, as a reaction to the sense of suppression or denial; others just accept the absence of that theme in their life and move on.

Is either of those approaches healthy?

Even if accepting the absence and moving on could be considered a good idea for dealing with the backgrounds planets themselves, I've gathered that the presence of close hard aspects among such planets severely complicates the matter. Attempt at framing this: the root needs of the involved planets are weak or absent, but the needs arising from their being mingled are very strong. Yes?

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:33 pmOne could, perhaps, be awareness and effort and the right kind of information start acting contrary to their chart in this. However, at that point they would be a fake, acting at odds with how they naturally are. I think there is nothin that determines life health and mental health so much as living in accordance with your actual nature rather than at odds with your real nature.

Could it be said that both the strong, dynamic needs of a close hard background aspect, and its supression are part of one's actual nature? Or, at least, its supression in certain times and places.

Given that acting at odds with one's nature is unhealthy, and that having a supressed strong aspect can be unhealthy, if one is at a time and place in which such an aspect can't be expressed, could it be that one (theoretically) can't help but be unhealthy in that context? Perhaps one is being unauthentic to themselves by being in the "wrong" place. (Rambling, sorta.)

Jim Eshelman wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:21 amWhenever I see a strong hard-aspect structure in the background, I think there's a significant chance it's going to work its way out in health issues if a person doesn't find a way to give it expression (one of the best ways being to move to where it's angular - but not the only way).

What is another way?

Parto wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:19 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:39 amThere is usually an overcompensating element much as there can be with a Saturn aspect, as a reaction to the sense of suppression or denial; others just accept the absence of that theme in their life and move on.

Is either of those approaches healthy?

I think it's situational. Sure, you could easily get me say that it's not healthy but there are degrees of unhealthy. You may need to suddenly have a certain character trait for something urgent; I don't see anything wrong, in general, with pushing it unnaturally.

Ultimately, we need to be whole. We all have all 10 needs sets in us, in different proportions and wired in different ways. Part of being whole is to develop each of these to a certain extent. You might think of systems of initiation that have the goal of someone being fully themselves but, along the way, having to develop every planetary (or elemental, or whatever) kind of expression and pass examination in them because you never know when you'll need them. After the course of developing them and bringing them into an integrated balance, one isn't expected to be what would be unnatural or unfitting for oneself; but at least you have a full toolbox.

Even if accepting the absence and moving on could be considered a good idea for dealing with the backgrounds planets themselves, I've gathered that the presence of close hard aspects among such planets severely complicates the matter. Attempt at framing this: the root needs of the involved planets are weak or absent, but the needs arising from their being mingled are very strong. Yes?

More or less. The hard aspect itself has a high pressure need to express and, in the background, a tendency not to. This creates a difficulty to be resolved.

Sometimes the nature of the aspect reinforces the background quality. For example, Donald Trump has a close Venus-Saturn conjunction in the immediate background. One easy way to read this is "two ways that his Venus is shut down" (which is a tough thing for a Taurus). But while he can ride easily on the "denying Venus" side, focusing on things like love of the material and mistaking loved things for purchased things, the trio of background Venus, background Saturn, and background Venus-Saturn make it unlikely he'd develop traits like devotion, duty, and love of work.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:33 pmOne could, perhaps, be awareness and effort and the right kind of information start acting contrary to their chart in this. However, at that point they would be a fake, acting at odds with how they naturally are. I think there is nothin that determines life health and mental health so much as living in accordance with your actual nature rather than at odds with your real nature.

Could it be said that both the strong, dynamic needs of a close hard background aspect, and its supression are part of one's actual nature? Or, at least, its supression in certain times and places.[/quote]
In a sense, that's true. It still doesn't contribute to overall wholeness but, sure, to some extent it's true. (I don't think one should use that to justify keeping any part of oneself shut down.)

Given that acting at odds with one's nature is unhealthy, and that having a supressed strong aspect can be unhealthy, if one is at a time and place in which such an aspect can't be expressed, could it be that one (theoretically) can't help but be unhealthy in that context? Perhaps one is being unauthentic to themselves by being in the "wrong" place. (Rambling, sorta.)

You are leaving out the option of finding healthy ways to express all of that.

There is, of course, the point of view that one should assume that whatever is is right. But don't confuse the planes. That probably is true in an abstract sense, at some level within oneself, but usually not true in the way one has to engage the world in a practical way. What's true in Atziyluth rarely seems true in the same way in Assiah.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:21 amWhenever I see a strong hard-aspect structure in the background, I think there's a significant chance it's going to work its way out in health issues if a person doesn't find a way to give it expression (one of the best ways being to move to where it's angular - but not the only way).

What is another way?[/quote]
One can force it with drills, as mentioned above - intentional practical engineering of one's experience and circumstances. One can put oneself in situations where one continually comes up against the planet's behavior so that one has to engage it.

Look for parallels to: What would you say to someone who has one leg damaged or weakened to the point that they can't rely on it as fully as someone else (e.g., maybe it's 2" shorter or has damaged ligaments or whatever). What's the path to their gaining greater day-to-day use of that leg? In principle, it's no different than the path of, say, someone with underdeveloped empathy who, for practical life circumstances, has to engage in close, communicating, connecting interaction with other people.

Another way to say this is: That's what therapists are for, to guide us through healing, wholing, maturing, and reconstituting ourselves.

Thanks. What made me wonder about your thoughts on this was what I quoted from you regarding acting fake, at odds with one's nature. I wasn't sure, especially taking astrology into account, where you drew the line between that and drilling, exploring, healing etc. It's much clear now.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:09 pm I don't think one should use that to justify keeping any part of oneself shut down.

Me either. That's perhaps the main takeaway from this.

Parto wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:32 pm Thanks. What made me wonder about your thoughts on this was what I quoted from you regarding acting fake, at odds with one's nature. I wasn't sure, especially taking astrology into account, where you drew the line between that and drilling, exploring, healing etc. It's much clear now.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:09 pm I don't think one should use that to justify keeping any part of oneself shut down.

Me either. That's perhaps the main takeaway from this.

Drilling is a drill. It's not pretending to be anything false.

And sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do something hard and wrong. For example, suppose you just aren't nice - have no particular social graces, aren't thought charming, people tend not to be drawn to you at parties - but you're going for a job interview. Whatever you do has consequences, and probably in the job interview that means acting like you're nice even if you aren't and acting like you give a shit about people and want to get along with folks. Maybe you don't really... and you could be unemployed and authentic or you could start dishing some social {bs} and get a job.

Whatever you choose has consequences. It's not Heaven and Hell good vs. evil. It just has consequences. Inside consequences and outside consequences.

I think you're look for absolute answers. There aren't any. Anything I say on the matter will squeeze the cracks of one or another situation I couldn't possibly imagine. These are basic principles. I don't think they're a mystery to you. I bet you already understand it.

Yeah. I was looking for, I'd rather say, an exact answer. Though I am predisposed to that in general, what triggered it in this case was that I've been perceiving such an exactness in astrology (which I guess is a good thing) that I felt compelled to take that to an extreme.

I feel I do understand it. Thanks again.