Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

I hope this is the right place for this.

James (ODdOnLifeItself)
July 3, 1962
6:16:44 am CDT
Mt. Vernon, IL
Asc: 24° 18' Gemini

source: AA-rated time is 6:18 am, but using many different extremely birthtime-critical techniques, I am positive that 6:16:44 am is absolutely correct. Isaac Starkman has also analyzed dozens of events from my life and comes to the same conclusion. (admittedly more likely since my rectification techniques come 80% from him and Alexander Marr, but to me, measuring the quality of his work, his agreement is the cherry on top of my particular birthtime sundae) As always, the proof is in the pudding!

If you'll run my SSR (Munich), you'll see Uranus at the Descendant and Jupiter at the IC, seemingly correct for (as you noticed) my voluminous postings and attempt to teach out-of-the-mainstream astrological techniques/approaches for those that are interested. As Jupiter-Uranus is perfect for the dissemination of new ideas, teaching astrological technique, and positive advances in general; the timing seems spot on for my postings and I surely hope that all can accept them in the spirit that they are offered. (ie. "Hey, I've studied this...here's how well it seems to work...why don't you check it out if you're so inclined...and if you like it and/or see its usefulness potentially adopt it into your astro trick-bag...")

James, on another thread you invited comment on your chart, so I'll do one of my basic, semi-automated sets of notes.

Separate from that, though, I wanted to say that I had a happy, raucous laugh when I saw you have a nearly precise Sun-Eris square - your strongest Sun aspect. Sometime last year, I decided I had enough clear information on Eris to start including it routinely as an 11th Pluto. However, as you surely will anticipate, one is constantly checking and rechecking one's accuracy in interpretive elements of this sort. Here is the standardized paragraph I've been using for natal Sun-Eris aspects, which I think you might appreciate ).

A disruptor to the established order and conditions (curious, trickster, mischievous): Open to outlier possibilities. Navigates chaos with practical advantage (leaving a wake of chaos: has little native resistance to disorder).

You may also be interested in the following. This is part of the output of Mikestar13's TMSA software that is currently in development (and already does a whole lot). This is the tabular stuff that comes after the chart itself. (I've included the extra planets with which we're experimenting.)

These notes on your Sidereal Natal Horoscope are provided for your reference and study. They are not a full interpretation of your birth chart; rather, they are building blocks from which a full interpretation can be built. Each factor listed below contributes to your character. These paragraphs commonly repeat or contradict each other. (We all have contradictions.) Though it does not take an astrologer to fuse these factors into a balanced picture of you and your life, it does require knowledge of human behavior and the ways that people support and sabotage themselves.

The paragraphs are brief. I have sought to pack in everything essential, to use a few words to imply much more. Not every phrase will apply, of course. Some will be more important than others; but the gist of each section should clearly reflect truth about you.

ANGULAR PLANETS & FOREGROUND ASPECTS
Sun on Ascendant (7°58’)
Warm, friendly, welcoming, sharing light, planting seeds. Vital, bold, confident. Dignity, gives and expects respect, needs to shine. Impelled toward a distinctive purpose (role) to discover and fulfill. Urge to command (good leader; or bossy, entitled, controlling). Needs centricity (attracts satellites), flourishes as center of someone’s attention. Drawn to traditional institutions with heritage. Need for personal continuity, something that survives them.

SUN in GEMINI
Acute nervous system. Speed, rhythm, variety (dispersion). More reason than belief. Courageous. Egalitarian; rejects forced stratification: “What’s expected” often makes no sense to them. Play, youthful. Needs affection, connection; feels loneliness deeply, often alienated. Music, arts, business. Mechanical, technical.

Sun square Eris (0°14')
A disruptor to the established order and conditions (curious, trickster, mischievous): Open to outlier possibilities. Navigates chaos with practical advantage (leaving a wake of chaos: has little native resistance to disorder).

Sun trine Neptune (0°14')
Air of secrecy or mystery. Loves drama, music, fantasy, surrealism. Active imagination. Can move and inspire others if they gain focus and perseverance. Sensitive to impressions of people and places. Unrealistic (out of proportion) self-view.

Sun trine Jupiter (1°39')
Generous, kind, warm, amiable, tolerant; needs acceptance and friendship. General dislike of problems: Has difficulty persevering against real adversity (though most problems resolve easily). Prodigal, loves leisure, overly reliant on luck. Philosophical or religious mind.

Sun octile Mars (0°05')
Action, drive, accomplishment, courage. Restless, forthright, (hasty, impatient, temperamental). Physical aggression, strong sexual needs. Industrious, instinctive leader.

MOON in CANCER
Feelings close to surface, comfortably expressed (sometimes overwhelm). When safe: tender, openly sensitive; otherwise, cocky arrogance, moody. Generous, hospitable, loves easily, draws affection. Sympathetic listener (trusted). Exudes optimism, outward confidence. Thrives within imagination. Expressive actor (treasures privacy). Conscientious shepherd.

Moon sextile Mars (2°39')
Active-reactive; temper. Detests idleness. Driven, competent, ambitious. Impatient, acerbic, irritable. Frank, sharp-tongued (friction in relationships), sharp mind. Needs physical, emotional, and mental room to breathe. Possible substance abuse. Sexual needs strong.

Moon octile Jupiter (0°56')
Good-humored, entertaining, kind, generous (natural host). Ambitious, desires success. Drawn to quality, desires the best. Strong beliefs (religious or patriotic intensity, morality, judgment). Social elitism (feigned superiority).

MARS in TAURUS
Artists, musicians. Tender, responsive, humane. Mystic instincts attuned to love. Sexually attractive, romantic soul, sensual (sexually popular?). Men often second-guess themselves, perhaps a little lost, ambivalent about aggression.

Mars square Uranus (1°57')
Uncompromisingly individualist (but rarely ungraciously so). Bold, often stand out as highly distinctive characters in their circles. Rebel, challenges prevailing thinking, brutally honest. Always into something new, often offbeat. Takes risks psychologically (sometimes physically). Industrious, resourceful, shows initiative. Mentally quick (not necessarily intellectual); knack for astute assessment of situations, analytical, mechanical instincts. Sexually uninhibited, enthusiastic (lifestyle may challenge social standards; actions may challenge the world to try to stop them). Trusts own instincts more than outside advice.

Mars octile Eris (0°09')
Disruptors carving new paths (sometimes zealously). Breakout creativity and effectiveness. Highly sex-motivated (sexual-social outlier).

MERCURY in TAURUS
Speech is harmonious, gracious, calming, poetic. Light-hearted, pleasant, good-humored, entertaining. Deep and curious mind, given to study, curious about life’s mysteries (Eros dominates the thinking). Strong on artistic expression and making beautiful things (more fine craft than fine art).

Mercury square Jupiter (1°31' mundo)
Love of ideas and learning. Easy “way with words,” comfortable speaking, reassuring in speech and manner. Well-formed speech has marks of a good education (whether true or not). Good-tempered, kind; may seem shallower than they are. Optimistic, religious style of thinking, e.g., “gambler’s roll” (don’t disturb their “hope and vision” with contradictory facts!). Good business potential (perhaps from raw luck more than skill) and always looking for the next opportunity or lucky break. Poorly suited to fixed schedule or routine.

Mercury sextile Venus (0°29')
Gracious charmer, persuasive, sweet talker. Light-hearted, pleasant. Pleasure in learning. Probably a happy childhood; retains a playful, childlike sense, a charm of immaturity.

VENUS in CANCER
Abundant feeling (heart rules head). Generous with affection, warm, nurturing (touching, holding). Needs to BE or HAVE a mother in relationships. Charming due to sexual charisma; requires adoration; loyal and devoted to friends. Home is an important sanctuary (appreciates luxury).

OUTER PLANET ASPECTS
Saturn square Neptune (0°47')
Bridges the practical and material with the idealistic and immaterial. (Most bridge it well.) Can render a vision concrete and believable, make something solid from an idea (creativity realized, plans executed; visual or music artist, counselor, problem solver). Frequently indifferent to material security. Devotion, loyalty (possible intrigue, deception, suspicion, betrayal). Many withdraw, enter seclusion, asylum, exile. Chronic (disabling?) physical or psychological afflictions (can include dark, troubled states, depression, disappointment, distrust, struggling with demons).

Saturn sextile Eris (0°47')
Gains control of the uncertain (manages to control chaos). Inspires (clings to) certainty in times of uncertainty.

Jupiter trine Neptune (1°52')
Idealist (social idealist), dreams of “something better” (impressionable; wants worthy idols). Optimism, faith (hungers for “too good to be true”). Generous (unwisely?). Compassionate, humanitarian, collective-minded. Strategically effective within a “big picture.” Religious, spiritual, mystical interests. Impractical (unrealistic, fantasy) relationship to money.

Neptune sextile Pluto (2°48')
Open to shifting viewpoint, alternative perspectives, variant possibilities: Potential to forge a new worldview and enroll others. Uncertainty feeds desire for certainty, regarding things a certain way and not other.

Thank you.

For a "cut-and-paste" style interpretation, the respective passages are mostly spot on, Jim. While reading them, I felt mostly celebrated, so job well done.

I'm not sure how it got in there, but you've listed "Saturn square Uranus"... which I don't see zodiacally or mundanely.

On the other hand, when I read "A disruptor to the established order and conditions (curious, trickster, mischievous): Open to outlier possibilities. Navigates chaos with practical advantage (leaving a wake of chaos: has little native resistance to disorder)." the spotlight felt a little warm!

Since you're still refining your meanings for this aspect, I'll take this moment to comment, point for point...

"A disruptor to the established order and conditions..." Yes, this has always been the case. Whether we start at my Dad getting my under-aged Mom pregnant and "having to marry her" or if we jump forward to me landing at my (infinitely beloved) Grandparents for them to raise me, I'm often the catalyst for a new situation! Established order implies routine and routine (when fixed) implies a lack of progress...so on some level everything should be in flux.

"...curious, trickster, mischievous..." Yes, this is by-and-large true. At first I was a little uncomfortable with "trickster," but upon thinking back to setting up my Wife (reeling her in, yet again!) for some coming pun or somesuch and I suppose I'll have to own that one a bit, as well. [Example...my Wife was reading the paper and there was some article about Dizzy Gellespie (famous American jazz trumpeter). I said to her, "you know, Dizzy Gellespie is about the only famous Egyptian I can think of in the moment." She said, "I didn't know he was Egyptian." I said, "yeah, isn't he a toot-uncommon." (Tutankhamun)]

"open to outlier possibilities..." Correct, as I've always both befriended mostly outcasts as well as found interest in out of the way subjects, I'd agree. More specifically; in bell curves, I tend to be quite displaced from the median! (Life's also more interesting out there)

"Navigates chaos with practical advantage..." It's happened repetitively that something is amiss, everyone dealing with the problem is in some kind of ineffective, chaotic swirl and someone (me) has to come in as the completely emotionally detached, voice of reason.

"...has little native resistance to disorder..." True. And no matter how much disorder there might be, I still know where all of my important stuff is... always. For me, a house that looks LIVED-IN feels like a home. If they could come in and take pictures for a home-magazine spread as is, that's not where I'd want to be living...ever.

James, if memory is serving me I think you posted somewhere on this forum how important you hold your close family members. Could you post here your quoted words what you posted? Maybe had to do with a "disrupted" family life? Thanks

ODdOnLifeItself wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:36 am I'm not sure how it got in there, but you've listed "Saturn square Uranus"... which I don't see zodiacally or mundanely.

Dammit, my eye slipped a line from Saturn square Neptune. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll put the proper paragraph in. - Glad you found the overall interesting, though

On the other hand, when I read "A disruptor to the established order and conditions (curious, trickster, mischievous): Open to outlier possibilities. Navigates chaos with practical advantage (leaving a wake of chaos: has little native resistance to disorder)." the spotlight felt a little warm!

I promise I didn't custom write that for you LOL. It's been the standard paragraph for a year or two. (Thanks for the feedback on the Sun-Eris paragraph.)

"...curious, trickster, mischievous..." Yes, this is by-and-large true.

Admittedly, this could be true of Gemini Sun (in some charts) also; but it's minor enough in Gemini I wouldn't have mentioned it in basic notes like this.

Re: "Could you post here your quoted words what you posted? Maybe had to do with a "disrupted" family life? "

Not sure exactly what you are referring to, Steve.

I did mention being born into a family, where my Father (due to my Mom's age) *had* to marry my Mom. (suprising that it didn't last... )

Later, I was raised by my Grandparents (lucky me!), but they surely didn't expect to start raising another kid, when they were already that age.

Once I was with the Grandparents, I felt safe and loved; HOWEVER, fearing that I could somehow end up back with Mom, I felt a lot of pressure (while young, at least) to always, always do the right thing (and not just 99%). They would have loved me anyway, but at the time, internally there was a fear that my actions were determining if I could even stay. I was probably 17, before I really deviated at all from what was expected of me. I've never gotten into any real trouble, but the pressure to be perfect subsided and that itself was a great development.

Re: "Dammit, my eye slipped a line from Saturn square Neptune. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll put the proper paragraph in. - Glad you found the overall interesting, though..."

I'm still trying to decide which one I want, Saturn square Uranus or Saturn square Neptune.

With Saturn square Uranus, I'm caught always between the traditional way and overturning that for some new method. With Saturn square Neptune, I'm alone, really alone (at least in feelings), but money becomes unimportant and the "hamster wheel" element of life would fall by the wayside.

Okay...I've decided...I'll keep my Saturn-Neptune square, it'll leave me at least with the hope that all my important dreams (Nep) will potentially come true (Sat).

Besides... Saturn square Uranus, sounds like controlling-reigns on my pecadillos, and other unpleasant limitations to exaggerated liberties, as well as a limited (Sat) Astrology (Ura) and we already know I'm not going there. (I just had a humorous image pop into my mind of people sitting, as if in a restaurant, and choosing their natal aspects from a menu. Wouldn't you know it, they're all out of Sun trine Jupiter!)

Oddon wrote:

I did mention being born into a family, where my Father (due to my Mom's age) *had* to marry my Mom. (suprising that it didn't last... )Later, I was raised by my Grandparents (lucky me!), but they surely didn't expect to start raising another kid, when they were already that age. Once I was with the Grandparents, I felt safe and loved;

Yes, that was what I was trying to remember, thanks. What kind of relationship did you have with Father? Did he die or seperared from you causing you to move in with Grandparents? I ask because I see this disruption in family life mainly with T-Square of Saturn-Node-Neptune. In the Hamburg School of Astrology the Node can have a -lot to do with "blood ties, kindered and related people."

Re: Relationship with my Dad

There are two major elements at play. One, Dad wanted to be a playboy. Our family had money, he had a very nice car and was good looking. However, since he has a taste for younger women, he ended up getting my Mom pregnant before she turned 18 and was basically forced to marry her. The second thing is my Dad thought he was the apple of my Grandmother's eye, but Grandma and I formed a special bond and she had no problem later stating it basically as it was, "Jimmy [my Dad] used to be my favorite...he was the best kid ever...until Tony [nickname, based on my middle name] came along."

I always wondered, when I was young, why it felt like I was in competition with my Dad and not supported by him emotionally. Later, it was to understand in his (and even our) psychology...and through astrology doubly so.

Interesting that you mentioned the Hamburg School... I have long been a fan of midpoints (both natally and transitory) and planetary pictures. Are you aware of cemalcicek? His work is extremely scholarly and he works extensively with midpoints / planetary-pictures with high harmonics, in the sidereal system.

ODdOnLifeItself wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:23 pm Interesting that you mentioned the Hamburg School... I have long been a fan of midpoints (both natally and transitory) and planetary pictures. Are you aware of cemalcicek? His work is extremely scholarly and he works extensively with midpoints / planetary-pictures with high harmonics, in the sidereal system.

Please do not drag discussion of the Hamberg school over into discussing your own horoscope. That's widely available on other boards and even in some of Steve's long threads here. While it's fine to use it occsionally in the context of basic discussion of midpoints in your chart, it's not ok to discuss it repeatedly or at length in detail. This is not the Hamburg school.

JSAD, Steve started it with an innocent reference to a Saturn-Neptune-Node T-square for which he gave a Hamburg standard interpretation.

OddOn, it remains a continuing slippery slope as we endeavor to keep the site on focused on "the study and growth of Sidereal Astrology."

BTW, in case you have stumbled on it, my long thread on Uranian (that I originally started mostly to build up to one semi-complicated point I wanted to make on midpoints aspecting midpoints, but also to tip my hat to semi-closeted Siderealist Roger Jacobson) is in the Experimental, Speculative, Exploring forum here:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4276

Thanks, Jim, for noting I was merely replying to someone else's comment. (and only with the name of a sidereal researcher) I truly hope there's no unstated (or stated, for that matter) goal of limiting out sidereal research, because to me that's counter-productive to the stated motto, "For the Study and Growth of Sidereal Astrology."

I did take a look at your long thread (your description) on Uranian astrology and find it to be a great primer of key points of the Uranian approach. All contemporary studies of midpoints seem to owe some debt of gratitude to Witte, later Ebertin, and others that tirelessly researched these methods, at a time when they were virtually nowhere on the astrological horizon, or at least were a long distance from being mainstream. Your detailed descriptions in that thread could be taken as a "foundation primer" in Uranian astrology.

For the purposes of the forum, are midpoints generally considered chaff/questionables that belong in the Experimental section?

If I reference my Mars-Uranus square and happen to mention that my Sun is directly in the middle of that square and mention the normal meaning of Sun=Mars/Uranus, would that comment need to be sandboxed? (official clarification sought, ie. I can't stay within the lines, without knowing where the lines even are)

Though cemalcicek's work is very likely NOT your particular cup of tea, I would actually like you to see just what he's doing and the enforced precision under which he works, as it is of a very high standard. An example (one out of MANY) would be his study of "people who were imprisoned," where he takes 53 cases of imprisonment and compares the thematically-relevant planetary pictures in order to assess if it's the True Node or the Mean Node that aligns in Node-relevant planetary pictures for "imprisonment." (spoiler: Mean Node, correctly configured and within orb: ALL 53 cases, True Node: 19 cases (36%)) Naturally, a 100% reliability of anything in astrology is worthy of note.

Gathering many instances of something and open-mindedly presenting whatever happens to be found; seems firmly rooted in the scientific method and at least approach-wise, is very similar to what you have done in SMA's various versions. ie. here are a collection of historical floods, let's see what astrology shows up in the "stack" relative to these events, doesn't seem that different to "let's take a group of people who were imprisoned and see if the planetary pictures that are expected are correct and within orb and how reliable this measurement appears to be, overall."

Damned scientists!!!

I realize this argument is separate from the question, "is it welcomed, here?!"

ODdOnLifeItself wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:11 am Thanks, Jim, for noting I was merely replying to someone else's comment. (and only with the name of a sidereal researcher)

As best I can tell, he's not a Siderealist at all. (Unless I missed who you meant.)

I truly hope there's no unstated (or stated, for that matter) goal of limiting out sidereal research, because to me that's counter-productive to the stated motto, "For the Study and Growth of Sidereal Astrology."

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "limiting out sidereal research." I do know it's been damnably hard to keep your posts on-topic for the site itself. For example, I don't want it to suddenly start appearing on search engines in a way that makes it seem "your destination on the Internet" for AH. (We've already been through a long phase of attracting people who learned we're a great site for discussing natal relocation, but they haven't a clue that they're on a Sidereal site.)

For the purposes of the forum, are midpoints generally considered chaff/questionables that belong in the Experimental section?

If I reference my Mars-Uranus square and happen to mention that my Sun is directly in the middle of that square and mention the normal meaning of Sun=Mars/Uranus, would that comment need to be sandboxed?

No problem with that. It's pretty conventional Ebertin-driven usage. (I'm sure we'd lose most of our audience if we dove deep into the Witte weeds, though.) I almost mentioned that Mars is at your Sun/Eris midpoint, octile both (but then thought, since it wouldn't give new information, there was no need.) There is still a lot of work that has to be done, I think, on the issue of isolating the few and focused midpoints that need attention, but second generation Siderealists have paid strong attention to Ebertin's work.

Though cemalcicek's work is very likely NOT your particular cup of tea, I would actually like you to see just what he's doing and the enforced precision under which he works, as it is of a very high standard. [etc.]

What does this have to do with Sidereal astrology?

ODdOnLifeItself wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:11 am I realize this argument is separate from the question, "is it welcomed, here?!"

And even a separate topic from the current thread, which is about the Sidereal examination of your birth chart, right?

ODdOnLifeItself wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:11 am Though cemalcicek's work is very likely NOT your particular cup of tea, I would actually like you to see just what he's doing and the enforced precision under which he works, as it is of a very high standard. [etc.]

Just noting Cemal Cicek's work has been well discussed on this site for years.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4377&start=150&hilit=linchi

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:43 am

ODdOnLifeItself wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:11 am Though cemalcicek's work is very likely NOT your particular cup of tea, I would actually like you to see just what he's doing and the enforced precision under which he works, as it is of a very high standard. [etc.]

Just noting Cemal Cicek's work has been well discussed on this site for years.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4377&start=150&hilit=linchi

Oh, Linchi, right. Didn't put it together. (Yeah, nothing even closely resembling Sidereal astrology there.)

Re: I almost mentioned that Mars is at your Sun/Eris midpoint, octile both (but then thought, since it wouldn't give new information, there was no need.)

Other than thinking that Mars there would add more energy/adrenaline to the Sun-Eris expression, fight before flight tendencies , and that the Sun/Eris "story" is likely learned from strong male role model(s), I'm not sure what I myself would read into Mars being at the midpoint of Sun/Eris. You have given me food for thought though, with this extra piece of the puzzle.