Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:49 pm**

[A long thread grew, with hundreds of posts from a recent two years or so of watching this chart. I'm not migrating them all to the new site. I will get her chart here and the most important sections helping discern her birth time. The first post is from June 30, 2014.]

Despite her long and visible presence in the public eye, Hillary Clinton's birth time is not at all certain. It's pretty clear that the time is about 8:00, but it's unclear whether this is AM or PM. I'm convinced the even-hour birth is very close - her Midheaven is either 11° Aquarius or 11° Leo, and transits to 11° Leo-Aquarius marked nearly every critical turning point of her 2008 campaign (primarily Saturn's recurring transits across this and numerous key events in her life). - It also marks her (actual or strategic) uncertainty about running while Neptune has been at that degree, and her likelihood of a decision as Neptune leaves it.

The AM vs. PM is difference changes the Moon sign from Aquarius to Pisces. Depending on your view of her, you might be more inclined to the "never so much herself as in being something else" view of the Pisces Moon, or the idea that Libra-Aquarius makes her cut from exactly the same cloth as Warren Christopher. I do note that if she is a Libra-Aquarius, then both her Sun and Moon are in signs opposite Bill's complementary luminaries (he a Leo-Aries, she a Libra-Aquarius).

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:49 pm**

We'll never get AA quality data for her birth, probably. Unless something well hidden emerges, we'll never have better than C or D. Here is a summary of what the Rodden collection at Astro.com has on the birth question:

ARGUEMENT FOR 8:00 PM BIRTH

One astrologer quoted Hillary directly for 8:00 PM.

Another claimed to have "confirmed" this by having "used this data for years (since before Bill became the presidential candidate the first time)," having "received it from a very dear friend and good client who knew them well..."

Our old Spica colleague Alexander Marr rectified this to 7:58 PM.

An anonymous source claimed to have asked Hillary "whether she was born at 8 PM." Hillary reportedly replied, "I think so." This was after asking her an open-ended question about her birth time previously, to which Hillary "kept mum." [Didn't really know? Distracted?]

ARGUEMENT FOR 8:00 AM BIRTH

An article from Chicago Sun Times stated, "Her mother went into Edgewater hospital after midnight and Hillary was born early on the morning of October 26th." [No evident source for this. Sounds biographical, not contemporary to the birth.]

Another astrologer wrote, "Mother states in article to Chicago Sun Times in 1992 that Hillary was "born in time for breakfast." [NOTE: If this is true, it has high credibility. Hillary is the eldest. Mothers usually remember their firstborn's birth very well.]

Another reports that Hillary said (apparently her exact words), "I know it was very close to 8 AM, 4-5 minutes before or after."

Another reports that she called Hillary''s NY office and was told "by a helpful associate" that Hillary Clinton was born at a recorded (!) 8:02 AM. [Somebody should tell Hillary! <g>]

There are a few other reports and claims. You can look them up yourself if interested. However, the 11° Leo-Aquarius axis is so sensitive to events, that I would find it hard to doubt the "8 AM or PM" time in exchange for undocumented, unsubstantiated, mixed other times.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:50 pm**

The strongest sign yet for an 8:00 AM time:

At the time of the Benghazi attack (probably the worst day of her tenure as Secretary of State, including the death of a friend), she had:

20°00' Cancer r. Mars
20°32' Cancer p. Pluto
20°44' Cancer p. Moon
20°51' Cancer r. Pluto

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:50 pm**

Chelsea's wedding was July 31, 2010 in Rhinebeck, NY. On that day, reportedly an enormously happy one for Hillary, we have (at noon):

t. Uranus 5°26' Pisces
t. Saturn 5°48' Virgo
t. Mars 6°08' Virgo

(Jupiter is on hand, too, but outside the orbs of the following.)

Given the above, I find it highly unlikely that she the following from 8:00 PM chart:

r. Moon 5°11' Pisces
r. Asc 5°49' Gemini

The Moon was in mid-Pisces for the wedding, so an immediate SLR occurred for her. Using the 8:00 AM time, we get a July 30 SLR:

t. Venus 26°54' Leo
r. Moon 28°50' Aquarius
MC 29°06' Aquarius
(Venus-Moon mundane opposition is 0°09'.)

EP 0°03' Gemini
r. Uranus 1°55' Gemini

Using the 8:00 PM time, later July 30 SLR that misses this entirely. It not only has the Mars-Saturn-Uranus triplet on her natal Moon and square natal Ascendant, but it makes them almost the most angular part of the SLR. (The closest is Neptune near the MC.)

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:51 pm**

SteveS wrote:So--neither the 8:00 AM or 8:00 PM is valid???. It appears we must work with the 8:00 AM--do you agree?

The examples above both suggest that AM is valid and PM can't be.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:51 pm**

SteveS wrote:OK, for now its 8:00 AM. Excellent work Jim,--will probably be very important to us siderealist for the future.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:52 pm**

Hillary and Bill were married October 11, 1975 in Fayettesville, AR.

At noon on that day (estimated time), Venus was at 10°08' Leo, on her MC of the 8 AM chart or IC of the 8 PM chart. Neptune is separating from conjunction with her 8 AM Eastpoint. Venus just before and Neptune just after means that their average orb is close to zero.

Her SNQ has progressed Sun within a degree of the Ascendant. This progressed sun was a mere 0°07' from conjunct her natal Jupiter, which also was on the SNQ Ascendant. This is common symbolism for a woman at her marriage. For the 8 AM time, progressed Moon was 0°24' from trine natal Jupiter and 0°19' from trine progressed Sun. It doesn't get much better!

Her September 19 SLR has Mars exactly rising and Venus a couple of degrees from the IC. Natal Uranus more widely rises. (This is all for the 8 AM chart, the only one I'm checking at the moment.) It's good (but not flawless) symbolism.

Her October 3 Demi-SLR has Moon on Descendant square Mars on IC only 0°32' from conjunct her Uranus - not a classic wedding chart, but acceptable.

The progressions, to my thinking, confirm the chart as accurate to within less than an hour and (by the Venus transit) to within 5 minutes. If we are only choosing between 8 AM and 8 PM, it's easy: The key splendid progressions only exist for the morning birth.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:53 pm**

Chelsea was born in Little Rock on February 27, 1980, at 11:24 PM.

Transits again strongly confirm the MC/IC axis common to both the AM and PM times: Jupiter and Mars are exactly conjoined at 10° Leo. This is seriously appropriate. Also, Neptune squares natal Moon < 1°, which could be appropriate or not (depending on circumstances).

Progressions make it look pretty rough. There is an exact Moon-Mars square (0°16') and natal Saturn square SNQ Ascendant. OTOH her Lunar Return is exactly on the expected target with Venus smack on Descendant.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:53 pm**

Hillary learned of the Lewinsky affair August 13, 1998 in Washington, hour unknown.

A transiting Sun-Mercury conjunction at 26° Cancer is just shy of squaring her Ascendant for the 8 AM time (doesn't exist for the PM time), and the Mercury at least is in orb of square her natal Mercury, and they conjoin her natal Saturn.

Of great significant IMO is that transiting Pluto was 10°35' Scorpio, meaning that it squares her meridian (for either time). For exactly 8:00 AM, it is square her Midheaven to the minute of arc. This is the strongest of many reinforcements of my opinion that we do know the longitude of her meridian, we just have to remain agnostic about which end is up!

Her progressions show that she was going to have a very bad day with a shock! Her SNQ for noon has progressed Saturn 0°04' from Midheaven and progressed Pluto 0°45' from square Ascendant. (She also had a progressed Sun-Uranus opposition in orb, though its effect wasn't immediate to the day.) Additionally, progressed Mars was 10°32' Leo (!!!), meaning 0°03' from her MC for 8 AM and exactly squared by transiting Pluto (0°03').

Her August 10 SLR has Pluto square Midheaven (and only about 3° below Ascendant in mundo). Natal Mercury is rising.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:54 pm**

Bill's inauguration doesn't necessarily make a great test event because it's mandated by law. That is, even if aspects peaked a couple of days early or late, the effect was going to be on January 20, 1993, at noon in Washington, DC.

No particular transits showed relevant to the issue of birth time.

Her main secondary progression is Venus square Neptune 0°01'! However, her natal Mars-Pluto conjunction squares SNQ Ascendant. I'm not at all sure what that might mean.

Her December 30 SLR is quite appropriate, having Jupiter a couple of degrees from Descendant, conjunct natal Neptune. Sun is at Midheaven. Her January 12 Demi-SLR is strange with Mercury-Mars on the angles, but also still has transiting Jupiter within about 3° of IC.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:54 pm**

Hillary announced her Senate candidacy February 6, 2000, 4:07 PM, in Purchase, NY.

None of the transits refer to the issue of birth time. (The main transit is Mars square her Uranus within a few minutes).

Progressions are strange for this one. She has a Moon-Saturn opposition exactly on the quotidian MC. Sure, Moon is at the MC and Mercury setting... but I'm not going to waste time claiming that this Moon-Saturn angular opposition seems typical for the event.

Her announcement came a day or so before a new Lunar Return. Therefore, her then-current SLR was January 12, had had Saturn-Uranus on the angles (with her Mercury-Saturn-Pluto). Her Demi-SLR had a Sun-Neptune partile conjunction on Descendant, plus natal Neptune near the IC and natal Sun closely square Ascendant. Her SLR on February 8, less than two days later, had Pluto minutes from Midheaven.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:56 pm**

I believe this must be Hillary's chart to within, at most, a 4-minute leeway either side. Examples I have seen do not seem to be biased toward it being slightly earlier vs. slightly later, so the even hour time must be essentially correct IMO.

October 26, 1947, 8:00 AM CST, Chicago, IL

Signs: Sun Libra, Moon Aquarius, Mars Cancer

Angularity:
Saturn square Asc (0°26')
Mercury rises (1°15'), stationary
Venus rises (5°33')
Jupiter rises (7°45')
Sun & Neptune background

Aspects:
1. Mo-120-Me (1°27'), Me-90-Sa (0°05'), Ve-90-Ma (2°13'), Ve-90-Pl (2°13'), Ma-60-Ne, Ma-0-Pl (0°51')

2. Mo-90-Ur (3°05'), Sa-60-Ur, Sa-0-Pl, Ne-60-Pl

Sun unaspected.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:56 pm**

SteveS wrote:After further reflections of Hillary’s 8:00 AM Birth, I can see WHY she ran into very rough times as Sec. of State with a Mars 20,00 Can, Pluto 20,51 Can, Saturn 27,18 Can. When we consider these placements in her Natal 9th House of foreign lands, we can further see her position as Sec. of State wore her down both mentally and physically. A most difficult astro configuration for her on the World Stage if she becomes 2016 Pres.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:57 pm**

I don't think we need this though, to show why the job wore her down. (It does, as you hint, correspond to adverse health effect of stress, especially because the person truly pushes themselves with enormous force).

But here's something the general public doesn't appreciate: Secretary of State is the single most arduous job in U.S. government. Look up how many miles she flew, how many countries she visited. They are constantly on the move, living much of the time in international air transit, living "always under the gun," so to speak.(Remember, I knew one former secretary of state for years, saw him nearly every day, talked to him often, talked to his assistant often, and the assistant already had front row insight on Washington. It's widely known inside government and by close observers that Secretary of State takes enormous physical and psychological stamina.) They all go through it. That's the main reason nobody keeps the job more than 4 years.

One thing I know for sure: Hillary is physically and psychologically up to the arduousness of the presidency, because she's already done a much harder, more demanding job.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:59 pm**

Your example intrigued me, so I thought I'd take a look for myself.

StarAgeWiz wrote:Here the LR's just prior to Hillary's hospitalization for a blood clot 12/30/12 Calculated for her residence: Chappaqua, NY.

First think I wanted to check were the transits for the day and, first out of the gates, I get what seems to be a confirmation of the 8:00 AM chart's Moon (positions are for noon on the event day):
-- t. Neptune -90- r. Jupiter (23')
-- t. Saturn -135- r. Moon (41')
-- t. Mars -90- r. Sun (27')

But back to the SLR. Indeed, t. Jupiter is 2°42' below Ascendant, t. Venus 0°03' from Descendant, Mercury 4°50' above Descendant. Also her natal Mars-Pluto conjunction is just off the IC. Not an ideal accident chart, but a clear enough accident chart that would normally be interpreted as having some built-in protection, care, pampering, etc.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:01 pm**

(Sep 15 2014)

There's a serious test of Hillary's chart coming up. Last campaign, her meridian kept getting criss-crossed by Saturn. This time we have a rearrangement of some similar pieces.

First, Neptune is sitting right on her IC. Depending on the exact time, it's perhaps within just a few minutes right now.

Coming up, though, is Saturn transiting across her Ascendant, at which point it also will square her Saturn exactly. Both of these are transits of life-assessment and making decisions with long-term consequences, though Saturn to the Ascendant is potentially a lot rougher, the kind of thing that bruised her badly before. Concurrently, Saturn will conjoin her Mercury.

Saturn will cross her 8:00 AM Ascendant October 20, a week before her birthday. It squares her Saturn October 16 and conjoins her Mercury on the 17th. Mid-October will be pretty rough.

Oh, and did I mention? (No, I didn't.) Saturn is conjunct her Ascendant exactly with Neptune exactly on her IC. This is... despairing and dispiriting. In a person so inclined (which she is not), these aspects are outright suicidal.

Using New York City as a base of operations, her current SSR has Saturn closely rising. All of these exact transits occur in that context. In fact, both natal and transiting Saturn are closely angular in the SSR.

It occurs to me that the mid-October events may have something to do with her own campaign, or with Democratic campaigns in general. Also, this all occurs roughly coincidental with the Libsolar, which is quite severe. It's hard to read because, for example, a serious blow to the economy or a military escalation or other large impact could force a serious reassessment on whether she wants to tackle what's ahead.

And it gets only a little better with her next birthday. Transiting Saturn is closely conjunct MC of her new SSR, offset by Jupiter on WP, but her natal Saturn is closer. There is a pretty close Moon-Neptune square. The usual themes all get kicked up a notch.

Her charts (and, even more, Bill's charts) look fabulous for later. First, though, she has to get through 2014-15, and that's looking challenging.

Oh curse! Curse curse curse! Another possibility... Chelsea is due to deliver when, October or November? (I couldn't pin it down just now.) That's another possible context for whatever is about to happen.

OTOH there is one really positive indicator cooking: Progressed Moon is about to trine progressed Jupiter. That will be exact October 10.

Her SLRs are hard to assess because we don't know where she'll be; but, once again using NYC as a general home base center, we see Saturn setting in the October 6 SLR (Mercury on WP), Sun-Venus square MC and Saturn setting in the October 20 Demi (right when the Saturn transits are exact), Mars exactly on IC for the November 3 SLR, and Pluto rising closely in the November 30 SLR. Her own Mars-Pluto sets in the demi following.

Looks like a really tough rest of 2014.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:04 pm**

(Mar 9, 2015)

Jim Eshelman wrote:It's pretty clear that the time is about 8:00, but it's unclear whether this is AM or PM. I'm convinced the even-hour birth is very close - her Midheaven is either 11° Aquarius or 11° Leo, and transits to 11° Leo-Aquarius marked nearly every critical turning point of her 2008 campaign (primarily Saturn's recurring transits across this and numerous key events in her life). - It also marks her (actual or strategic) uncertainty about running while Neptune has been at that degree, and her likelihood of a decision as Neptune leaves it.

And... here we go again. With Neptune past this degree a little, sitting at 12°+ Aquarius, Saturn is now 10° Scorpio and, hey, guess what's happening? A version of the same stuff that happened when Saturn was at 11° Leo seven years ago. Just not so noisy quite yet.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:05 pm**

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:
Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:Although the due date hasn't been announced, most people seem to think Chelsea's baby is due this month.
Charlotte Clinton Mezvinsky was born at 7:03 PM, September 26, 2014 at the Lenox Hill Hospital on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, NYC. Since it was a pretty big deal to both maternal grandparents, perhaps it's an event that might cast light on an AM or PM timing for her grandmother.

ETA: Info from announcement made by Chelsea Clinton Mezvinsky on her Twitter account about 1AM on the 27th. I guess that makes it an A rating, since it's not an "official" source.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:05 pm**

For granddaughter's birth...

TRANSITS
AM:
t. Neptune conj. r. IC (0°05')
t. Jupiter conj. r. Mars (0°16'), r. Pluto (0°35'), Ma/Pl (0°10')
t. Mars conj. r. EP (< 1°)
PM:
t. Neptune conj. r. MC (0°36')
t. Jupiter conj. r. Mars (0°01'), r. Pluto (0°35'), Ma/Pl (0°17')
t. Mars conj. r. WP (< 1°)
Conclusion:
Not much difference, but Neptune orb is closer for AM and IC is symbolically better than MC.

Transits to SSR
AM:
t. Saturn sq. MC (0°13')
PM:
t. Saturn sq. MC (0°41')
Conclusion:
No difference worth mentioning, especially for an even-hours birth time. Neither fits, suggesting time a few minutes displaced from the round hour.

SLR
AM:
(Nothing in particular)
PM:
r. Moon rises
Conclusion:
Preference to PM (which has something valid while AM is quiet).

Demi-SLR
AM:
r. Jupiter rising
PM:
t. Pluto setting, t. Venus on IC (both nearly partile), r. Neptune sq Asc
Conclusion:
Both are good. PM may have a slight edge for the power of the indications, but is mixed in the indications.

ENNEAD
AM:
t. Pluto setting (2°), t. Sun on IC (5°), a little Moon & Venus
Sun-Moon sq. (1°12')
t. Moon sq. r. Moon (0°40'), t. Sun op. r. Moon (0°32'), midpoint (0°04')
PM:
t. Sun at MC (partile), t. Neptune sq. Asc
Conclusion:
AM is decisively better, partly for the power of Pluto, partly for the Moon aspects

SNQ
AM:
p. Moon -90- t. Jupiter (0°32')
p. Moon -30- r. Pluto (13'), p. Pluto (9'), r. Mars (42')
t. Pluto -0- p. Sun (0°04')
PM:
p. Venus conj. Dsc (< 1°)
Conclusion:
Both are sufficient, but the lunar aspects for AM are decisively better.

SQ
AM:
SQ Asc sq. s. Jupiter (just outside 1° orb, suggests birth a few minutes after 8:00)
PM:
p. Moon conj. r. Mars (0°15'), r. Pluto (0°51')
Conclusion:
PM aspects are grossly inappropriate. Clear tip to AM.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:06 pm**

In conclusion...

Some of the core techniques not no particular differences (none that mattered), so let's focus on those that did.

TRANSITS had not much difference (no ultimate difference, perhaps), but the relevant-seeming Neptune transit is closer for AM, and also on a more symbolically relevant angle for this event (private family matter rather than personal outreach, career, public identity, etc.).

LUNAR RETURNS are ambiguous. One could argue a slight preference for the PM birth, but the AM Demi-Lunar was perfectly sufficient by itself (and the PM one might even be overkill).I'm consider them a tie. Similarly, the ENNEAD seems strongly waited to the AM birth - more personal, intimate, while still show a turning-point event in her life, and the PM doesn't squarely hit (for what we can surmise about her reaction). To keep things balanced, let's call this a tie also.

SNQ (Secondary Progressions give this hands down to the AM birth. In an AM vs. PM trade-off, usually nothing matters more than progressed Moon aspects (or similar Moon factors, e.g., transits to natal or SSR Moon). Despite the perfectly appropriate one-day Venus quotidian passing for the PM birth, these quotidian angularities are really weak. The real stand-out is the progressed Moon-Jupiter square. (The SQ was ambiguous at best.)

Therefore, on things that I think matter most, this is a slam-dunk for the AM time.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:07 pm**

Based on her horoscope, who does Hillary Clinton most resemble among former Presidents?

SUN in LIBRA
Four U.S. Presidents have had Libra Suns: John Adams, James K. Polk, Theodore Roosevelt, and Warren G. Harding. (Libra ties for second place, behind Aries and Cancer.)

MOON in AQUARIUS
No person with Moon in Aquarius has ever been elected U.S. President, despite the fact that the United States was born with an Aquarius Moon.

If I happen to be wrong about her AM birth time, her Moon would be in Pisces. This is a match to only John Adams (who also had Sun in Libra).

MARS in CANCER
Ten U.S. Presidents have had Mars in Cancer, the most of any Mars sign by far (the next closest is 6): Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, Franklin Pierce, Grover Cleveland, William Howard Taft, Herbert Hoover, and Harry S Truman.

Foreground Planets
For an 8:00 AM birth time, Hillary has Saturn sq. Asc (0°26'), Mercury rising (1°15', stationary), and wider angularities of Venus (5°33') and Jupiter (7°45').

Angular Mercury: Eight presidents have had Mercury closely angular, given the best birth data we have on each (which, admittedly, is sometime thinly documented): George Washington, James Monroe, William Henry Harrison, Millard Fillmore, Woodrow Wilson, Gerald R. Ford, Ronald Reagan, and George W. Bush.

Angular Saturn: Ten presidents have had Saturn closely angular: James Madison, James Monroe, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Abraham Lincoln, William Howard Taft, Woodrow Wilson, John F. Kennedy, and Jimmy Carter.

Of the Saturn angular presidents, those who have also had Jupiter angular are Buchanan and Taft. (None had Venus angular.) Of the Mercury angular presidents, those who had Venus or Jupiter angular are Harrison, Fillmore, and Bush. Perhaps the best angular fits are James Monroe and Woodrow Wilson, both of whom had Mercury and Saturn tightly angular.

MOON-URANUS aspect
Square, 3°05'. The strongest Moon-Uranus presidents have been Taft and Harding. Add John Adams, William Henry Harrison, Jerry Ford, and George W. Bush.

MERCURY-SATURN aspect
Square, 0°05', tightly angular. Compare this to John Adams, Rutherford B. Hayes, and, in to a lesser extent, Jerry Ford.

MARS-PLUTO aspect
Conjunction 0°51'. Strong hard aspects were in the charts of Jefferson, Van Buren, William Henry Harrison, Harding, and Nixon. (Add Buchanan as a lesser expression.)

VENUS-MARS aspect
Square 2°13'. Madison, William Henry Harrison, Woodrow Wilson, Jimmy Carter (with lesser expressions of Hayes and Reagan).

VENUS-PLUTO aspect
Square 1°22'. Jefferson, Jackson, William Henry Harrison, Fillmore, Benjamin Harrison, and Eisenhower. Lesser expressions were Van Buren and Bill Clinton.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:08 pm**

Astrologically, Hillary has two things going against her. First, she still will have Saturn come back across the square to her MC over the course of the campaign. In the past, she has suffered significantly from similar transits. To her advantage is that this time it will be swift, occurring November 2015 if her 8:00 AM (or even 8:00 PM) birth time is accurate.

The other is that her Sun and Moon signs do not place her for a reasonable successorship in the flow of U.S. presidents. If you don't know what I'm talking about, review this essay, where I discuss a very strong pattern across the centuries: http://www.solunars.com/essays/presidents.htm

Barack Obama is a Cancer-Taurus. George W. Bush is a Gemini-Virgo with a Cancer stellium. We would, therefore, expect the next president to have at least one luminary in Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Virgo, or their opposites - which takes up eight of the 12 signs! - and yet, Hillary has none of these. Despite being labelled as (and struggling with perceptions of being) a continuity of Obama, none of these appears. In fact, if by chance i'm wrong about her birth time and she has a Pisces Moon, the one fit is that her Moon-sign is opposite that of George W. Bush. She would, in that sense, be a Bush successor much more than an Obama successor.

But I don't think she has that Pisces Moon.

To find a match or polarity for her Libra-Aquarius luminaries, we have to go back - not entirely surprising - to her husband, Bill Clinton, who is a Leo-Aries. Each of them has their Moon in the sign opposite their own Sun-sign. For spouses and, in so many other respects, lifelong partners, this is hardly a surprise.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:08 pm**

Hillary held her first major post-announcement campaign event today (6/13/15) on Roosevelt Island in New York City. Press reporting was occurring before 9:30 AM PDT, so I'm guessing the event started at noon in NYC. (It was at least in motion at that time.)

Transits to Natal
t. Mercury sq. r. MC (0°52') - another meaningful hit to 10° Leo MC!
t. Mercury conj. L (NYC) Dsc (0°39')
t. Sun-Mars conj. (0°16') < 1° from NYC WP

Transits to SSR
First, the SSR for this location has a Sun-Venus conj. (0°22') square Ascendant (7' Venus, 19' Sun) for the even hour birth. Saturn is 2° from MC, but Jupiter is 1° from WP. As for its transits... They're a little strange and unhelpful.
t. Uranus -45- s. Neptune (0°09')
t. Mercury -90- s. Neptune (0°15')

SNQ
No progressed Moon aspects. (Not quite yet. It's about to move into orb of square natal Uranus.)
p. Asc conj. r. Neptune (0°01'), p. Neptune (1°36')
t. Pluto conj. p. IC (0°43')
I'm not sure if these are descriptive of the event or not.

The SQ had nothing sufficiently sharp to mention.

Current SLR
Well, it's a bold chart, and that's what she was trying to project. I don't know if it's descriptive of the event.

Natal Moon is exactly square Ascendant - that's the strongest factor - somewhat widely squared by Sun and, especially, Mars near Descendant. Transiting Pluto is exactly on EP (and partile square MC), which does sound quite appropriate, and is square her culminating natal Neptune (which does sound appropriate). Natal Uranus (part of her Moon-Uranus square) is setting. Sounds about right, nothing overwhelmingly obvious one way or the other.

Really, I think all we got out of this was another transit to the 10° Leo-Aquarius meridian, which is the most sure thing we have about her birth time. She gave her first big speech of the declared campaign with Mercury transiting the angle! <g>

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:09 pm**

The 8 AM vs. 8 PM time has continued to work so spectacularly, and private communications leaking out of the Clinton offices seem to support them (though goodness knows if those could be trusted in the absence of astrological support).

The main question remaining is whether we can trust the round-hour birth time, especially in the face of some reports centered about 5 minutes later.

With room to change my mind later, I'm inclined to trust the 8:00 AM time down to the minute. I just did some charts for Hillary's speech ending her 2008 campaign - it began at 12:30 PM June 7, 2008, in Washington, DC. For fine-tuning, here are some quotidian results for this event.

SNQ
4°47' Sagittarius p. Mercury
5°13' Gem MC
5°18' Virgo Asc
5°18' Sagittarius t. Pluto

The Pluto hit is 0' from SNQ Nadir and 5' from IC. If we were to move the time 5 minutes of time later (about a degree and a quarter), this moves it too far from progressed Mercury; and this was, foremost, a speech and, at that, a concession "face the music" speech in the classic fashion of Pluto's partile conjunction with her Mercury.

SQ
7°24' Scorpio
7°54' Leo t. Saturn

Saturn's exact hit to the Zenith is a clear mark of "I lost." A minor factor (only reflecting the broad time, not the precise time) is that SQ Moon had moved to within 1° of SSR Ascendant.

PSSR
26°50' Libra
27°18' Cancer r. Saturn
27°23' Libra r. Mercury

Again, a clear mark of a speech, and a loss speech.

The last two would allow for a birth time a few minutes later, but don't require it. The first one, though, could not edge much later and still capture one of the two key planets.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:15 pm**

(Apr 4 2016)

randallnyc wrote:Has Hilary's birthdata been nailed down? Is 8 AM the consensus?

I'm convinced it's 8:00 AM, give or take maybe three minutes either way at most.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:18 pm**

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:The State Department issued an IG report stating Mrs. Clinton "violated email rules." But it also states they knew about the private server, and the last four secretaries of state had the same problems, and Mrs. Clinton's set-up duplicated Colin Powell's. Nobody would be looking at this if it wasn't for Republican fueled hatred of the Clintons and fear of Mrs. C's getting the presidency. Nobody is looking at former secretaries of state who also had email problems.

I had to work with the government IT people myself during that time period, and I chose to set up my own server (not just for email) rather than try to figure out where they hid the hoops they wanted me to jump through this time. It was a mess, with a bunch of self-important jerks running it, who didn't seem to understand their job was to help other people do their jobs, not get underfoot and impede basic communications. This was not security related impeding. This was looking for ways to make themselves more important impeding.

These people actually wanted me to run a public access database driven website off Lotus Notes.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:18 pm**

Yeah, they were kind of a mess. I also thought that if I were here I'd have done the same thing.

Government IT has been historically horrid, especially since at least half a dozen different agents running independent systems through the White House and not allowed to communicate with each other due to security walls. One of Obama's quiet and significant legacies will be a complete overhaul of White House IT under a single master. They found literally TONS of cut cables going nowhere that, in past updates, have simply been snipped and left in place - this is now removed and new cabling. Hardware, OS, and software has been updated.

And yes, they've finished or nearly finished the migration from Lotus Notes to Exchange/Outlook

Meanwhile, the government systems weren't as secure as most corporate systems. The State Department has two branched email systems, one for normal use (similar to a normal company email system) and one to which they divert classified matters - different email addresses, different domains, etc. The public one has been hacked many times in the last decade, and the secure one was hacked once that I know about. So far, I haven't heard that the Clinton residence server was ever penetrated.

So I'm not worried about anyone who seriously examines this concluding she took a less secure route.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:20 pm**

(Jul 12, 2016)

Around 11:30 AM Eastern Time this morning, Bernie Sanders ended his presidential run and endorsed Hillary Clinton. Here are her striking, straightforward transits:

t. Pluto -45- r. Jupiter -23'
t. Jupiter -45- r. Sun +30'

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:22 pm**

I just bothered to look for the first time: Hillary was born at Edgewater Hospital, which was at 5700 North Ashland Avenue in Chicago. I haven't gotten to Google maps yet, but the first source I found listed 41N59'07" 87W40'14". (Normal "central city" Chicago coordinates are 41N51, 87W39, so the longitude - the most important part - is within a minute.)

If we get to where we think we actually have a time down to a minute or less, this might be worth knowing.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:23 pm**

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:Mrs. Clinton had to be helped into her car after leaving the 911 ceremonies early today (abt 9:30 at World Trade Center) and left to spend time at her daughter's apartment before going home.
It was 84 degrees with high humidity and she was wearing a dark suit and high necked white blouse, and as nobody has managed to mention so far that I can see, a full suit of kevlar armor underneath (which is why she wears so many high necked blouses although that isn't her best look) She was standing in the middle of a crowd under the sun for at least an hour and a half before getting woozy. She has a history of getting dehydrated as well.

From Jim's list of transits:
t. Jupiter -45- r. Venus-Mars-Pluto 9/4-24 [exact MA 9/9, PL 9/13, VE 9/19]

Time confirmed to about 9:30 AM

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:24 pm**

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:It appears she went to see her doctor about that cough Friday, was diagnosed with pneumonia then and put on antibiotics, and told to take it easy. She didn't.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:29 pm**

Meanwhile, a little more detail on the 8:00 AM time (which I've said I think is right within plus-minus 3 minutes). Astrologer Larry Schwinmer write this to current ISAR President Ray Merriman this morning:

No disrespect meant, Ray Merriman...but this source does not win my confidence as making the case that Penfield knows Hillary's exact time of birth. I think my source is much better. I have known my source for Hillary's exact birth time for 20 years. I trust her as I would a brother/sister. (1) She had a client who worked on Hillary's campaign in 2008 come to her to pay to have Hillary's chart done; (2) The staffperson wasn't 100% positive of the time; (3) My astrologer friend at that moment had the staffperson telephone Hillary; (4) Hillary got on the phone and stated: "I was born at 8:02 AM." (4) The astrologer did the analysis in 2008 and told Hillary, you will not win in 2008. I promised not to reveal this astrologer's name. (So, I don't care whether anyone believes me or whether it results in a C- rating ). But I consider this source for Hillary's time far more credible than any other source I have heard cited thus far.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:30 pm**

I decided to let everyone draw their own conclusions, and not give an opinion on whether to trust Marc's source.

I will continue to use 8:00 AM or, more accurately, since I found it to be 8:00 AM plus-minus 3 minutes, in the wake of Schwimmer's more detailed description I'm to edit my file chart to 8:02 AM.

PS - Zayin Cohen, who claimed to have seen the record, originally published 2:18 and then later said this was a typo, it was 2:08. With this in mind, I find it fascinating that the two most asserted "I have this from a real source" times are 2:08 and 8:02. This makes me wonder if a dyslexic saw a real record (or someone saw it upside down).

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:32 pm**

Here is Hillary's new SSR for October 26, 2016, 2:37:10 AM EDT, Miami, FL. I'm not to crazy about it - the Moon aspects and some of the natal angularities (though her Jupiter is also pretty strong).

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:33 pm**

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:HRC's campaign team sent a "save the date" email to supporters and lawmakers this afternoon inviting them to join her from 6 p.m. to 11:30 p.m., Tuesday November 8th at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Cente, 655 W. 34th St. NYC.
The Javits Center is across the East River from her campaign headquarters in Brooklyn Heights.
So we know where she'll be as the polls close.

BTW: The Javits Center has the largest glass ceiling in the US.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:33 pm**

(Thanks.)

Polls close on the West Coast at 11:00 PM EST. Although the campaigns will have a lot of advanced news on how things are going (from their exit polls), that's the first time that networks are supposed to start broadcasting results. It's as good an estimated time as any for when election outcome will be known.

November 8, 2016, 11:00 PM EST, New York, NY. Here's how Hillary's chart looks (8:02 AM)...

TRANSITS
t. Pluto -90- p. Moon +18'
t. Jupiter -0- r. Neptune +30'
t. Jupiter -90- p. Sun -18' (p. Mercury -19')
t. Sun -0- r. Venus +00'
t. Moon sq. L Asc -59'

SECONDARY PROGRESSIONS
p. MC -90- p. Pluto +29', r. Pluto +05', r. Mars +56'
p. L MC -0- r. Jupiter -54'
p. Moon -60- p. Pluto -20', r. Pluto -44', r. Mars +07'
p. Sun -0- p. Mercury +02'
p. Sun -30- p. Venus +01'
p. Sun -90- p. Neptune -48', r. Neptune +48'
p. Mercury -30- p. Venus +01'
p. Mercury -90-0 p. Neptune -46', r. Neptune +50'
p. Venus -120- p. Neptune -47', r. Neptune +49'
p. Jupiter -120- r. Pluto +50'

SSR/ENNEAD (NYC)
s. Moon -90- s. Saturn (0°21')
s. Moon -180- s. Neptune (4°45')
s. Moon -90- s. Venus (4°30') (0°14' in mundo)
Asc op. s. Neptune (2°29'), conj. s. Moon (7°28')
MC op. r. Jupiter (0°50'), s. Venus (7°08')
-- s. Venus-Neptune sq. (0°14')
-- s. Moon-Saturn sq. (0°21')
-- s. Venus-Jupiter sex. (0°22')
-- s. Sun-Mercury conj. (0°55')
-- s. Moon-Pluto tr. (1°00')
-- s. Venus conj. r. EP (0°12')

TRANSITS to SSR
t. Neptune -90- s. Venus -23'
t. Mars -135- s. Moon +47'

SLR (NYC Oct 14)
t. Uranus on MC (3°47')
t. Sun on IC (5°27')
t. Sun-Uranus op. (1°17')
r. Sun on IC (about 7°), r. Pluto on Asc (about 4°), r. Mars rises (about 6°)
Background Mercury-Mars sq. to r. Neptune (partile)

Demi-SLR (NYC Oct 26)
t. Saturn sq. MC (0°54')
t. Pluto on Dsc (8°29'), t. Neptune on MC (7°08')

SLR (NYC next day, Nov 9)
t. Venus on Asc (3°17'), t. Pluto on Asc (7°21')
r. Sun on MC (about 5°)

SNQ
p. MC conj. p. Jupiter (1°05' applying), conj. t. Saturn (0°19' sep)
INTERESTING COINCIDENCE: The Q1 Asc is exactly the same as the Q2 MC.

SQ
p. MC op. t. Saturn (0°03')
NOTE: The SQ IC is precisely the same as the SNQ MC. Three quotidians so far have transiting Saturn within mere minutes of the meridian.

PSSR
MC 23°28' Taurus
Asc 25°03' Leo
EP 21°22' Leo
Nothing angular.

TERTIARY PROGRESSIONS
p. Moon -120- p. Sun -07'
p. Moon -90- p. Neptune +05'
p. Sun -90- p. Pluto -22'
p. Sun -180- r. Venus =51'
p. Venus -135- p. Pluto +01'
p. Venus -120- r. Jupiter +15'
p. Mars -60- r. Mercury +38'
p. Mars -180- r. Moon -50'

SOLAR ARC DIRECTIONS
(d. MC, Sun as above under Secondary Progressions)
d. Asc sq. r. Sun -25'
d. Jupiter -135- r. Uranus -34'
d. Uranus -0- r. MC +40'

Most technique speak to her victory. Unfortunately, those that do not are the ones most pioneered by Cyril Fagan: Negative marks for her quotidians (natal and solar), ambiguity in her SSR, strong negativity in her Demi-SLR. However, if I were to ignore these and go with transits to the natal, secondary progressions, solar arc directions, and (mostly) tertiary progressions, they would show decisive victory.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:34 pm**

RinTinTin wrote:"Most technique speak to her victory. Unfortunately, those that do not are the ones most pioneered by Cyril Fagan: Negative marks for her quotidians (natal and solar), ambiguity in her SSR, strong negativity in her Demi-SLR. However, if I were to ignore these and go with transits to the natal, secondary progressions, solar arc directions, and (mostly) tertiary progressions, they would show decisive victory."

In the context of how the election is going right now (not called as of this writing, but very close), I'm struck by Jim's phrasing.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:35 pm**

At 2:04 AM EST November 9, John Podesta came out (in the Manhattan site) to suggest Hillary's supporters go home since the final counting of votes wouldn't be finished until tomorrow.

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 2:36 pm**

(Nov 9, 2016, 12:45 AM PST)

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:Hillary called Trump "moments ago" to concede.

Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

Hillary Rodham Clinton

Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Benghazi

Chelsea's wedding

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

HRC's wedding

HRC gave birth to Chelsea

HRC & Monica

HRC & Bill's inauguration

HRC runs for Senate

Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton