Transiting Planets to Natal Angles in SSR

[LeiLei]

According to Astrodienst, t Uranus will be partile conjunct my natal IC and t Saturn will be in almost exact square to my natal MC at the time of my 2022 SSR. This will be the second of three passes for t. Uranus with my natal IC. I'm confused about t Saturn however, as I thought it had already passed my natal EP (unless I'm missing something?). But my question is, even though both t Ura & t Sat are not foreground in my SSR, will they carry more significance due to their placements with my natal angles?

For instance, for my son's SSR, t Mars is deeply background but is also in partile conjunction with his natal MC. Should this simply be observed as a transit or an aspect that will color his year?

I hope I'm being clear, I have allergy head pretty bad right now.

[Jim Eshelman]

...even though both t Ura & t Sat are not foreground in my SSR, will they carry more significance due to their placements with my natal angles?

The simple answer is yes, but in a slightly different way than you might be thinking.

At the time of your SSR for Morgantown, you will have:

23°06' Ari - t Uranus
23°34' Lib - r MC
23°43' Cap - t Saturn

If nothing else were going on, you'd be experiencing the transits about that time - and the transits are valid in their own right (for that period of time). The question is whether there is something that locks in for the entire period of the SSR - and there is.

It's the wrong approach to think of them as if they were foreground in the SSR. They aren't. They have importance only because they are transits to your natal chart. In the same sense that SSR Neptune is 0°33' from square natal Moon - a transit that would be valid (because partile) even if it weren't

And that's the key: They are partile transits to your natal chart at the time of your Solar Return. Don't interpret as "Uranus and Saturn are foreground at the time of my SSR." Interpret them as "Uranus and Saturn transit my MC in my SSR." (Different set of interpretations here on the forum and slightly different nuance.

For instance, for my son's SSR, t Mars is deeply background but is also in partile conjunction with his natal MC. Should this simply be observed as a transit or an aspect that will color his year?

It should be interpreted as a transit that exists in his SSR and is valid for the year.

[Jim Eshelman]

Nos that you brought this chart up, can we talk about it a bit?

Speaking bluntly, this is a quite miserable solar return! Because of the partile transits, not all of it can be bypassed, but the worst parts of it are unique to your geographic location. Here is a breakdown from TMSA (but adding the two transits to your natal MC). The focus is that Mars-Neptune tightly afflicts BOTH Moons exactly on angles.

r Moon on Dsc -5°14'
t Neptune on Z -0°36'
---------------------------
t Mars on Asc +0°05'
t Moon on Z +0°46'
r Neptune on Dsc +3°34'

t Moon-Mars sq. 0°12'
t Neptune sq. r Moon 0°33'
t Mars-Neptune sq. 1°10'
t Moon-Neptune co. 1°14' M
t Mars op. r Moon 1°43'
t Moon sq. r Moon 1°56'

t Moon-Mercury op. 2°06' M

Other partile aspects:
r Venus-Mars co. 0°08'
t Saturn sq. r MC 0°09'
-- t Uranus op. r MC 0°28'
-- t Saturn-Uranus sq. 0°38'
r Mars-Pluto 0°38' M
r Venus-Pluto 0°45' M
r Mercury-Jupiter sq. 0°49' M
t Mercury-Pluto sq. 0°55'

I would definitely advise getting away from the part of the world (any part of Virginia and adjacent parts of North Carolina and West Virginia) where that Mars-Neptune is angular.

The one area with a natal benefic in the eastern U.S. is New England (and a corner of upstate NY). For example, Jupiter square Asc cuts through the center of Rhode Island, so it is exactly angular for the whole state (or central Massachusetts, or southern Vermont). For example, for Providence, t Jupiter is on Zenith 0°18'. - Oops, that's not ideal, since natal Saturn is in IC and natal Moon is in the immediate foreground: Mars and Neptune aren't angular, but you're apt to feel it through the Moon. - You still get some of these aspects wherever you go, but not as strongly as if right on the angle. But we can find someplace.

If you're interested in travel for your birthday and give an idea where or how far you might be up for, we can work on it.

[LeiLei]

Sorry Jim, I am in Morgantown, WV. And it doesn't look like I'll be able to travel. Even if I could, I'm not sure I would. My life has been incredibly stagnant for the past two years. This chart is unlike anything I've seen looking back at my SSR's from 16 years & up. I know it looks scary, I am in fact a little scared by it but I also wonder if it will bring the change I've been hoping for. Or maybe I'm just resigning myself to it.

[Jim Eshelman]

Sorry Jim, I am in Morgantown, WV.

Argh. I originally did it for WV by mistake and just went back and changed it. [I've now fixed it. The breakdown above is for WV.]

Without redoing the numbers... let me just say it's worse. The Mars-Neptune is much closer in WV.

And it doesn't look like I'll be able to travel. Even if I could, I'm not sure I would. My life has been incredibly stagnant for the past two years. This chart is unlike anything I've seen looking back at my SSR's from 16 years & up. I know it looks scary, I am in fact a little scared by it but I also wonder if it will bring the change I've been hoping for. Or maybe I'm just resigning myself to it.

Then let's help you optimize this one. I'm most concerned about your health (you're young enough that you can take most other things), so I do encourage taking unusually strong steps to protect yourself. (I might be more willing to take that chart if I were your age. Being farther along in life, I would be doubling up my life insurance, but you're probably better positioned to weather it.)

Who knows, with Uranus opposing natal Uranus and crossing your IC, you may find yourself moving to Iraq before October <rofl>.

[LeiLei]

Thought I posted this already but I must have done something wrong. I also looked at all my lunar returns, including demi's, for the year & they all look really positive for the most part. The main thing I worry about is having an accident or injury of some sort.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thought I posted this already but I must have done something wrong. I also looked at all my lunar returns, including demi's, for the year & they all look really positive for the most part. The main thing I worry about is having an accident or injury of some sort.

Excellent about the SLRs. It could just be strange emotional states or hurtful interpersonal drama. My main concerns for you were serious infectious disease or physical attack.

[LeiLei]

I originally planned to take a cross country trip to somewhere around Gold Beach, Oregon. I've never seen the Pacific Ocean & I'm hankering for a long road trip. But t Saturn on my n Jupiter for the year has definitely been limiting, in more ways than one, the means to travel most especially. So I'm hoping the long road trip takes place next birthday as my SSR here doesn't look great either.

[LeiLei]

I wonder if my son's SSR gives a clue as to how the year might turn out. Our birthdays are only 8 days apart. His natal Venus & natal Neptune are closely foreground & aspect each other. I want to think it's him falling madly in love but I do worry it could represent him caretaking me. He also has t Saturn & t Uranus closely foreground - constraints vs freedom? Or it could be something else altogether but we are close & I'm currently living in his house so who knows. His birth data if you would like to take a look is: September 29, 1997, 6:15 am, Decatur Ga. Current residence: Morgantown, WV

[LeiLei]

Barely talk & then I can't shut up.

Just wanted to thank you for your response to my initial question. I was really hoping you'd say I was wrong about Saturn squaring my MC. I think I desire the most to get out from under Saturn's weight. So basically these aspects are the same as any other partile (non-foreground) aspect in a SSR, background noise or supporting characters but not center stage.

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes, I think that's the case.

[SteveS]

LeiLei, for sure you have an ‘outstanding incident’ nasty 2022 SSR. My best guess read on all the main astrological factors: Emotional tormenting pain of some kind creating a-lot of confusing inhibited tensions. Please keep us informed for our learning purposes and my best to you for your next SSR. If this turns out to manifest as physical pain of some kind, let me know, I may have some ideas that may offer some relief. If only emotional pain, you have no choice but to live with it and handle it with your best individual strengths.

[SteveS]

LeiLei, your next SSR features your Natal Moon on your SSR DSC offering a double whammy of Moon-Mars-Neptune symbolism. According to Jim's SSR teachings you will react to your SSR symbolism through your Natal Moon with her aspects/set-up in your Natal. If you would like, I can analyze further with your Natal Moon which may offer some further clues to what may be timed for your life with your next SSR. I am sure Jim will be able to offer further in-depth analysis about your Natal Moon offering possible further life reactions.

[LeiLei]

LeiLei, for sure you have an ‘outstanding incident’ nasty 2022 SSR. My best guess read on all the main astrological factors: Emotional tormenting pain of some kind creating a-lot of confusing inhibited tensions. Please keep us informed for our learning purposes and my best to you for your next SSR. If this turns out to manifest as physical pain of some kind, let me know, I may have some ideas that may offer some relief. If only emotional pain, you have no choice but to live with it and handle it with your best individual strengths.

Steve, how do you know "for sure" that it will be nasty? Have you experienced a chart exactly like this one or at least very similar? I am all ears if anyone has. Relying strictly on interpretations of individual aspects isn't enough for me.

Part of me wishes I had never found astrology. I've spent far more time worrying about an upcoming chart than actually experiencing something terrible from the chart itself! I can't find one chart strikingly similar to my upcoming SSR going back almost 30 years, there's no telling if this chart is indeed "nasty" or not. The only one slightly similar is the SSR that occurred roughly a week after my son was born (1997 Lawrenceville, GA). It also had both Moons foreground but t Mars was barely foreground & only my natal Neptune was foreground. There was some violence, from my ex-husband. I left him & obtained a restraining order that he ignored. But I survived, fell in love with my sweet baby boy, was able to enjoy my friends again, and by the end of the year fell madly in love with a man that would later turn my world upside down.

I had typed out a very long rant but I'll save everyone from that & try to keep this short. I've had my share of "outstanding" events happen in my life. I'll provide just a few: In 2003, my boyfriend (referenced above) died in a horrific fiery car crash a week before my 25 birthday (2002 SSR - Oriental, NC & 2003 SSR - Decatur, GA). When I was 32 (2010 SSR - Oriental, NC), my dad died suddenly a few days before Thanksgiving, even though I drove overnight to reach him, I wasn't able to say goodbye. Very interestingly both of those years (2002 & 2010) also included hurricanes that totaled two vehicles while I witnessed my houses become islands. While terrifying it was certainly exciting! During the 2010 SSR I also left my second husband. For an emotional betrayal example, one that hit closest to home resulted in cutting off all ties with my mother & by extension my sister as well (2015 SSR - Orlando, FL). This was a transformative year, unwinding much of the brainwashing on behalf of my mother while also being liberated from tyrannical views that were never truly my own.

There were still some bright spots across these years (the exception being 2003, which was very dark & I became quite monstrous, a person I never plan to revisit) but on the whole they were pretty freaking awful & look rather different from my 2022 SSR. I notice a good bit of Venus across the above referenced years & I'm pretty relieved to see a lack of Venus (especially my own) from my upcoming SSR. While I very much appreciate my foreground natal Venus, I think it's also from where I express most emotionally, for better or worse. I'm not sure if it works this way but since I never lose my natal Venus, when I also have it foreground in a return chart it's like a double whammy of emotional force. Looking back at SSR's, I've found this isn't always so great. OTOH I get the feeling that my natal Moon is actually a place of strength for me, both by being in Scorpio (pure Mars) & by midpoints ASC/MC 07' & Ma/Ju 26'. I'm also relieved to see my natal Mars & Uranus background. It might be nice to get to know other parts of myself that are often stuck in the background.

And if I get sick, well I'll recover won't I? And if I don't I can't see getting too upset about it...since I'll be gone after all. From my experience death hurts the living & right now the only person my passing would hurt would be my son. While it would definitely crush him for a while, it would liberate him in a sense as well. And if it's an accident or a physical attack of some sort, while I'd absolutely prefer to avoid either, it wouldn't be anything I haven't already faced & recovered from.

Well I have more to share so I guess I failed at keeping this short. To be continued...

[Jim Eshelman]

Have you experienced a chart exactly like this one or at least very similar? I am all ears if anyone has.

Recognizing that this is entirely your choice to make, and emphasizing that my speaking up on the subject is only out of concern for your well-being (I'm not arguing with you!), I'm willing to answer the question.

While I don't remember every return chart I've seen over almost half a century, one dominated by Moon-Mars-Neptune that jumps to mind is Harvey Milk's lunar for his murder. (There was a lot of Mars-Neptune flying around most of the charts of that incident.) (I just looked it up, it was his immediate demi-lunar.) - For a more purely emotional example, Nixon's various charts for the collapse of his presidency and his forced resignation were strongly marked by Mars-Neptune.

Generally, Mars-Neptune contacts are probably the most noxious and hurtful of the 45 planetary pairings. I think I've never seen one that wasn't at least a little hurtful (often worse). I consider it getting off lightly when I have a Mars-Neptune aspect on angles if I got a mild spot of food poisoning or a bad reaction to a medicine. Most of the (few) charts I could get of people who died in the first, bad, pre-vax year of Covid had charts dominated by Mars-Neptune, though some had Saturn-Neptune. The aspect deserves its fame for being toxic and inflammatory - emotionally if not physically. With Moon, physical vulnerability is amped up considerably, the vulnerability being magnified considerably.

That having been said... a good rule of thumb in astrology is that most people do not have extraordinary, out-of-the-usual events in their lives very often, so incredibly good charts are rarely quite as good as we may fantasize while incredibly bad charts are rarely quite as bad as we might fear. I would have felt negligent if I didn't raise an alarm on what might be the single worst solar return I've ever seen; nonetheless, you're the driver, and sometimes it's perfectly OK to ignore those bothersome dashboard alarm lights.

[SteveS]

LeiLei asked:

Steve, how do you know "for sure" that it will be nasty?

Because Donald Bradley & Cyril Fagan (fathers of Sidereal Astrology) did enough research with Solar Returns to “know” with high probability that Mars-Neptune combos were malefic. But an important clue for me is the transits of Saturn & Uranus to your Natal angles timed at the time of your next SSR. Saturn-Uranus combos are mostly inhibiting “tension” aspects with changing circumstances. But no astrologer knows exactly what is going to happen with ‘outstanding incident’ SSR, its guess work with probabilities. Both your SSR Moon & Natal Moon are involved with the angular SSR Mars-Neptune. I have had enough experience with Jim’s SSR teachings to “know” you will “react” to your angular SSR Mars-Neptune in a Moon symbolic effect. Moon symbolism can mean many things pertaining to one’s ‘soul’ and one’s immediate family. What kind of relationship does your son have with your Mother, since you have broken-off your relationship with your Mother?
LeiLei asked:

Have you experienced a chart exactly like this one or at least very similar?

I have never see two SSR’s with two different people “exactly” alike. Solar Returns are read as a stand- alone chart and then read with the Natal, everyone’s natal is different. But my wife’s current SSR emphasized angular ‘outstanding’ Mars-Neptune and it manifested tormenting physical pain for weeks with Plantar Fasciitis. She went to 4 different Doctors with no relief—but finally found a tremendous amount of relief with acupuncture.
LeiLei wrote:

Part of me wishes I had never found astrology.

Me too! It can be a curse at times. When I saw my current SSR along with my wife’s current SSR, I thought—o no, my wife is in serious jeopardy. Instead, my best friend of 53 years suddenly died. No matter what we astrologers think may happen—most of the time we are wrong.
LeiLei wrote:

OTOH I get the feeling that my natal Moon is actually a place of strength for me, both by being in Scorpio (pure Mars) & by midpoints ASC/MC 07' & Ma/Ju 26'.

Excellent observation! I am most interested in how your ASC/MC direct midpoint to your Moon is actually manifesting in your life. Along with mundo aspects to your Moon, I think somehow this is the key for your reaction to your next SSR, its a most interesting SSR---most SSR's are not that interesting. Is it ok we investigate this together with some other interpretations from my books?
Also, your Son has a most interesting next SSR. I am curious—is your son involved in a love affair? Is it ok we discuss your Son’s next SSR?

[LeiLei]

I'm sorry Steve, I have no idea how to split up your response to quote you. It's totally fine to discuss my son's SSR, I welcome it. He's not involved in a love affair, he ended an 8 year long relationship just over a year ago. But I think he's coming around to being ready for new love. When I looked at his SSR coming up I thought that could be a part of it, at least I'm very hopeful it is.

To answer your other question, my son was never very close to my mother & was absolutely instrumental in opening my eyes to her behavior. If it hadn't been for him, I may have never truly seen her for who she really was. He broke off contact with her at the same time I did of his own free will.

Fagan says this about Mars & Neptune combos: "To be involved in a mad scramble of the multitudes, to be caught up in a riot or baton-charge, to have the clothes torn off your back by hundreds of adoring fans, are some of the effects when Mars and Neptune transit together. While most people are terrified by such an experience, others appear to actually enjoy it. Neptune always seems to involve crowds or at least many people in a high degree of emotional excitement and the native invariably seems to be the victim or center of attraction. He is one against a multitude."

I don't think that sounds altogether bad. I also don't want to go hide in a corner or run away from every scary thing. The more people want me to be afraid of something the less afraid I become & the more head-on I want to face it.

[Jim Eshelman]

I think (relying more on Bradley as edited over the years to match charts I saw) it's more like this:

Toxic either to the body or psyche. Most commonly magnified emotions (from dread to terror), amplified perception of threat: anxious, fearful, anticipating danger or misfortune (often fantasized). Feeling vulnerable to abuse, attack, betrayal; one's soft spots are exposed (any neurotic tendencies amplified); feeling the ground fall out from under one’s feet. Increasing risk of treachery, sabotage, other betrayal, poisoned relationships, public ridicule, scandal. Possibly health-debilitating: extreme reactions to drugs, chemicals, tainted food, or other toxins. Enthusiastic surrender to temptation (e.g. heightened holiday spirits and indulgence) have stronger consequences than usual. (Common for fires with consequent terror or injury.)

There's always room for enthusiastic surrender to temptation

[LeiLei]

I think (relying more on Bradley as edited over the years to match charts I saw) it's more like this:

Toxic either to the body or psyche. Most commonly magnified emotions (from dread to terror), amplified perception of threat: anxious, fearful, anticipating danger or misfortune (often fantasized). Feeling vulnerable to abuse, attack, betrayal; one's soft spots are exposed (any neurotic tendencies amplified); feeling the ground fall out from under one’s feet. Increasing risk of treachery, sabotage, other betrayal, poisoned relationships, public ridicule, scandal. Possibly health-debilitating: extreme reactions to drugs, chemicals, tainted food, or other toxins. Enthusiastic surrender to temptation (e.g. heightened holiday spirits and indulgence) have stronger consequences than usual. (Common for fires with consequent terror or injury.)

There's always room for enthusiastic surrender to temptation

I find both over the top dramatic actually. I have a document of all of your T to N interpretations saved just so I don't have to see Fagan's notes in pink below them. I'm not denying their genius by any means but I do find their interpretations anxiety inducing. Almost as if just by reading their notes would manifest the result.

[Jim Eshelman]

I understand - hence the guidance that things are never quite as bad as one might think or quite as good as one might think.

But in writing the interpretations, one wants to say something that isn't "everyday." If astrology isn't to be a joke, things have to stand out starkly in contrast to unmolested conditions - something not quite a caricature which, nonetheless, points in the right direction. (It used to be commonly said that one could be a brilliant mundane astrologer by always predicting war in the Middle East, trouble for the president, concerns about the economy, and news about Atlantis; but then Atlantis became less popular.)

When I wrote commercial forecasts in the past, there was always expectations that life would sound good, which of course also had it mostly always sound the same (or just make things up). It's much more gratifying (and usually more accurate) candidly representing that Venus, Jupiter, and (usually) Uranus tend to feel really good (with some chance of spoilage) while Mars, Saturn, and (usually) Neptune feel really bad (with some chance of redemption); that Uranus and Pluto means that things break loose and change in really big ways, while Sun and Moon mean that you are more personally singled out.

[LeiLei]

My lunars & demi lunars tell a different story from my SSR I think. I looked over every single one, physically writing them out on paper & I felt much calmer about my SSR. I also wrote out every single midpoint as well. Just by going by angularity scores alone I have (from 10/15/22 thru 10/04/23):

T Uranus - 1296 (14)
T Jupiter - 1116 (12)
T Sun - 848 (9)
T Mercury - 846 (9)
T Venus - 844 (9)
T Pluto - 737 (8)
T Neptune - 468 (5)
T Mars - 463 (5)
T Saturn - 462 (5)
T Moon - 355 (4)

N Uranus - 1307 (14)
N Venus - 1147 (12)
N Mars - 961 (10)
N Saturn - 823 (9)
N Neptune - 739 (8)
N Jupiter - 722 (8)
N Moon - 626 (7)
N Pluto - 475 (5)
N Sun - 250 (3)
N Mercury - 185 (2)

This is of course if I even stay where I'm currently living.

[Jim Eshelman]

That's great! As I meant to say before, that does significantly change the picture. If a bad SSR is like a falling stock market, positive lunars are shorter-term upturns on that trend. The SSR drives the overall pattern of the year while the lunars modulate it during the year. The rules of thumb I find useful:

• Our best times are when the Solar Return and Lunar Return are both clearly positive.
• Our worst times are when the Solar Return and Lunar Return are both clearly negative.
• A bad SLR under a good SSR will be not so bad.
• A good SLR under a bad SSR will be not quite as good.

A run of upbeat lunar returns makes the best out of what otherwise might be a rough year.

It does look like you're in for a lot of change this year.

[LeiLei]

It does look like you're in for a lot of change this year.

And change is something I've really been wanting. And here's a SSR that looks entirely different from anything I've ever experienced before. I almost feel like I'd be slapping it in the face if I tried to change it to something happy & pleasant. It's like it's speaking to me: "you might very well go through something terrible but if you can just hold on & keep going, there's sweetness on the other side."

I also find it very interesting that right around Valentine's Day (I could give a flip about the holiday but maybe someone will change my mind) Neptune will be squaring my Moon for it's third & final pass. T Venus is in close conjunction with t Neptune. I haven't been in a romantic relationship for 11 years now & something tells me all this anxiety & vulnerability could be tied directly to that. Which seems only natural given how long I've been alone. We shall see bumblebees!

[Jim Eshelman]

That IS a remarkable run of natal Venus during the year - along with BOTH Uranuses. I would not steer you away from your present home for your lunars!

And you're gearing up for Pluto transit across your Ascendant. That's definitely a life-changing event. In April-May, it overlaps Uranus crossing your IC. Not sure if this will show well (large enough) posted here:

[LeiLei]

Thanks Jim. Took me a minute to understand what I was looking at it. It's very helpful!

[LeiLei]

LeiLei wrote:

Part of me wishes I had never found astrology.

Me too! It can be a curse at times. When I saw my current SSR along with my wife’s current SSR, I thought—o no, my wife is in serious jeopardy. Instead, my best friend of 53 years suddenly died. No matter what we astrologers think may happen—most of the time we are wrong.

I'm very sorry you lost your best friend, Steve. No doubt it was absolutely heart breaking & the grief overwhelming but I am very glad you were able to be by his bedside. You may not see it yet but I bet you've grown a mile or even a hundred. And while I know the grief never really goes away, I hope your days are feeling a little bit lighter.

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote:

And while I know the grief never really goes away, I hope your days are feeling a little bit lighter.

Thanks LeiLei, the days are feeling a bit lighter, but as all deaths of our love ones it leaves pains in our souls. But--life goes on and we have to make the best of it.

If you want to open-up your most interesting next SSR for more discussion post in the SSR topic. And I agree with you about your Son's next SSR---something maybe to do with a new love relationship.

[LeiLei]

If you want to open-up your most interesting next SSR for more discussion post in the SSR topic. And I agree with you about your Son's next SSR---something maybe to do with a new love relationship.

This is the SSR topic subforum. I didn't intend for this thread to become about my SSR necessarily but I knew I was opening it up for discussion by asking my question. Now that Jim's given his breakdown I don't think it warrants a new thread. And I can't edit the topic heading either so...

I do think I'll open a thread for my son's SSR though now that you've mentioned it.

[LeiLei]

I'm probably going to take a break from astrology for a while. My son & I had a huge argument tonight. He thinks I'm taking all of this way too seriously. He said I'm obsessed & I can't really disagree with him. Anyways there's nothing that feels worse than fighting with my son & after I just posted about his upcoming SSR & it's connections to mine maybe it is better if I step away.

But first I wanted to post my SSR's midpoints, I meant to post these last night but never got around to it. I'm including Mercury because of it's aspect with the Moon as well as Pluto, Uranus, & Saturn.

ASC = Mo/Ne 05' + Ur/Pl 44' + Su/MC 50'
MC = Ju/Pl 06'
Moon = Su/MC 03' + Ur/Pl 03' + Ma/AC 29'
Mars = Ur/Pl 10' + Su/MC 16' + Mo/Ne 29'
Neptune = Ma/AC 53'
Mercury = Mo/Ju 15' + Ju/Ne 56'
Saturn = Su/AC 03' + Su/Ma 14'
Uranus = Su/Ma 24' + Su/AC 41'
Pluto = AC/MC 03' + Ma/MC 20' + Ju/Ur 56'

And just because it's exact: Jupiter = Ve/Ne 00' (also Mo/Ve 42')

I don't know how much they matter or what they even mean exactly. I know my chart is probably loud enough without the added noise of midpoints. There's a lot of them that's for sure.

I planned to update my 2021 SSR but I'll put that off for now. I'll definitely keep you informed if I have a major accident/injury/attack as long as I'm able. Right now I am very, very sad & not at all enthused about this so-called life I'm living. Wishing everyone a better day/month/year than I am having.

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote:

I don't know how much they matter or what they even mean exactly. I know my chart is probably loud enough without the added noise of midpoints. There's a lot of them that's for sure.

FWIW, I will only pay some attention to close foreground planets in a SSR forming direct midpoints to SSR angles. But I really pay a-lot of attention to direct midpoints to angles in a Natal. For example: Your main planetary theme in your life is your direct midpoint of Venus/Uranus =MC, structuring your Natal MC as very important for your life. Breaking down the direct midpoint structures of your Natal Venus, Uranus, & MC: these three chart factors are loaded with Direct Midpoints. In fact, as long as I have been doing direct midpoints, I have never seen another Natal so loaded down with direct midpoints for a direct planetary midpoint theme involving a Natal angle as your Natal Chart. I think these direct midpoints certainly help better explain the truer structure of your stand-alone Venus/Uranus=MC direct midpoint. When you get back from your break with astrology, you may want to take a closer look at all of your direct midpoints involving your Natal Venus, Uranus, & MC. These combined with other direct midpoints in your Natal involving other personal points may help explain more of the happenings in your life with their psychological impacts than your stand-alone Natal Chart. Wishing you the best for you and your Son.

[LeiLei]

But I really pay a-lot of attention to direct midpoints to angles in a Natal. For example: Your main planetary theme in your life is your direct midpoint of Venus/Uranus =MC, structuring your Natal MC as very important for your life. Breaking down the direct midpoint structures of your Natal Venus, Uranus, & MC: these three chart factors are loaded with Direct Midpoints. In fact, as long as I have been doing direct midpoints, I have never seen another Natal so loaded down with direct midpoints for a direct planetary midpoint theme involving a Natal angle as your Natal Chart. I think these direct midpoints certainly help better explain the truer structure of your stand-alone Venus/Uranus=MC direct midpoint. When you get back from your break with astrology, you may want to take a closer look at all of your direct midpoints involving your Natal Venus, Uranus, & MC. These combined with other direct midpoints in your Natal involving other personal points may help explain more of the happenings in your life with their psychological impacts than your stand-alone Natal Chart. Wishing you the best for you and your Son.

Steve, you've inspired me to further research my natal midpoints. I've purchased Ebertin's "The Combination of Stellar Influences" & it should arrive on Tuesday. Thank you.

[Jim Eshelman]

Steve, you've inspired me to further research my natal midpoints. I've purchased Ebertin's "The Combination of Stellar Influences" & it should arrive on Tuesday. Thank you.

This might help: I have a custom Midpoint Report I created in TMSA. Here are all your midpoints within 1° orb down to 45° series. - So that it better matches where Steve will guide you, I've marked the 90° contacts as indirect instead of direct midpoints.

Code: Select all

Mo Sc-   |    As/Mc 07'd      Ma/Ju 26'i   
Su Vi    |    Ma/Ne 04'i      Mo/Ju 14'd      Sa/Mc 41'd      Ve/Sa 44'd   
Me Vi+   |    Mo/Ur 25'i   
Ve Li+   |    Mo/Me 37'd      Mo/Pl 53'd   
Ma Li    |    Ju/Mc 30'i      Sa/Pl 31'i      Su/Sa 38'i      Ve/Ju 55'i   
Ju Cn+   |    Ma/As 12'i      Me/Ve 15'i      Mo/Ne 44'i   
Sa Le    |    Me/As 17'i      Su/Ju 49'd   
Ur Li    |    Su/Ne 20'd      Ma/Mc 22'd      Me/Sa 30'i   
Ne Sc    |    Su/Mc 06'i      Me/Ma 08'i      Mo/Sa 12'i      Ur/Pl 22'i   
Pl Vi    |    Su/Me 20'd      Ne/Mc 30'i   
As Cp    |    Ma/Pl 19'i      Su/Ur 26'i      Su/Ma 50'i   
Mc Li    |    Ve/Ur 13'd      Me/Ne 16'd      Mo/Su 47'd

This is probably exactly what Steve would advise: Direct (conjunction/opposition) midpoints only with a 1°30' orb.

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Mo Sc-   |    As/Mc 07'd   
Su Vi    |    Mo/Ju 14'd      Sa/Mc 41'd      Ve/Sa 44'd   
Me Vi+   | 
Ve Li+   |    Mo/Me 37'd      Mo/Pl 53'd   
Ma Li    | 
Ju Cn+   |
Sa Le    |    Su/Ju 49'd   
Ur Li    |    Su/Ne 20'd      Ma/Mc 22'd      Ne/Pl 90'd   
Ne Sc    | 
Pl Vi    |    Su/Me 20'd   
Mc Li    |    Ve/Ur 13'd      Me/Ne 16'd      Mo/Su 47'd      Sa/As 61'd   
         |    Ve/Ma 88'd

[LeiLei]

Thank you Jim! I've only checked up to 1 degree & I've never looked at my 45°series. I never even considered them. Very helpful!

[Jim Eshelman]

I use a 1° orb; but since Steve likely will be guiding you through this, I know he uses a larger orb (and fewer midpoints).

Classically, only conj/op midpoints are called "direct." I find no discernible difference between these and the squares (and my model of how midpoints are formed explains this, since the squares are also "direct" - but that's a long story.) I only drop to 45° series when there is nothing at a higher level or I want a "next layer of subtlety" polish

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote:

Steve, you've inspired me to further research my natal midpoints. I've purchased Ebertin's "The Combination of Stellar Influences" & it should arrive on Tuesday. Thank you.

You are welcome LeiLei. From a standpoint of helping you to understand your Natal Chart better, I hope this book about midpoints with its written delineating tones helps you probe deeper into understanding your life happenings astrologically. Thank you for sharing your Natal and certain life happenings with us, it has helped me see and understand better with my work investigating Ebertin’s work with direct midpoints involving angles-- along with their planetary structures involving other direct midpoints. Thank you.