Solunars by Aldebaran Sidereal Academy

August 17, 1668 OS, late morning, North Anatolia, Ottoman Empire (Turkey), 49.9° N, 36.0° E
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1668_Nort ... earthquake

Estimated magnitude 7.8-8.0. There were 8,000 deaths. Bolu was almost completely destroyed, among other demolished or seriously damaged buildings along the fault line. Aftershocks for 6 months.

For "late morning" I'll use 11 AM as a working time. Turkey didn't adopt the Gregorian calendar until 1917, so I assume this date is given in OS (but I haven't been able to confirm that). The charts work really well for this being OS. (I reran for this being NS and the charts sucked.)

Year: Capsolar {+2}
Moon on Dsc 1°29'
Venus and Saturn more widely foreground
-- Venus-Saturn co 1°01'

Bridge (Silent.)

Quarter: Cansolar {-2 at least}
Jupiter on Asc 0°11'
Venus on N 0°30'
Mars widely foreground
-- Jupiter sq non-fore Uranus 0°57'
-- Venus sq non-fore Sun 1°37' M, op non-fore Uranus 2°04' M
-- Mars sq non-fore Mercury 2°38'

Month: Caplunar {+2 at least}
Saturn on N 0°42'
Mars on EP 1°46'
Sun & Uranus more widely angular
-- Sun-Mars sq 2°20'
-- Sun-Uraus op 3°27'
Moon-Neptune co 1°02' M

Week: Arilunar {+1}
(The angularities are great, but the dominant aspects are all wrong. I'll tip it to that exactly rising Saturn but not give full points.)
Sun on WP-a 0°07'
Saturn on Asc 0°21'
Mercury, Venus, Uranus, Neptune more widely angular
-- Sun-Uranus op 0°09' M
-- Venus-Jupiter sq 0°31' M
-- Sun Venus co 0°35' M
-- Venus-Uranus op 0°43' M
-- Sun-Jupiter sq 1°06' M
-- Mercury-Uranus op 1°10' M
-- Jupiter-Uranus sq 1°15' M
-- Sun-Mercury co 1°19' M
-- Mars-Uranus sq 1°49'
-- Mercury-Venus co 1°53' M
-- Mercury-Jupiter sq 2°24' M

Day: Capsolar Quotidian {+2}
p Asc co t Mars 0°15', sq t Uranus 0°32'
-- Mars-Uranus sq 0°43'

Day: Cansolar Quotidian & Transits {0}
p Asc co s Sun 1°15'
-------------------------
t Sun sq s Asc 0°10'

Jim wrote:

Bolu was almost completely destroyed…

As you have pointed out Jim, some earthquakes can cause such widespread damage over large land areas, sometimes it’s difficult to choose the exact location to strike our SMA charts. Since Bolu was “almost completely destroyed” I selected Bolu for my Capsolar suspecting this was where most of the people died? I immediately noticed the partile 90 of Mars-Neptune with PVP Mars partile conjunct Vx. Did I state this correctly with Mars on Vx? Anyway, a partile Mars-Neptune 90 would be par-excellent symbolism for the quake if we allow the Vx as sensitizing the Bolu location.

SteveS wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:43 pm As you have pointed out Jim, some earthquakes can cause such widespread damage over large land areas, sometimes it’s difficult to choose the exact location to strike our SMA charts. Since Bolu was “almost completely destroyed” I selected Bolu for my Capsolar suspecting this was where most of the people died? I immediately noticed the partile 90 of Mars-Neptune with PVP Mars partile conjunct Vx. Did I state this correctly with Mars on Vx? Anyway, a partile Mars-Neptune 90 would be par-excellent symbolism for the quake if we allow the Vx as sensitizing the Bolu location.

One thing that has been solidly proven is that the Vertex itself is worthless in these ingresses. I actually got (very low) statistical significance for Venus and Jupiter on Vx axis on devastating events, enough to - if anything - suggest that Vertex was suppressing the planet's manifestation. (But I chose not to go with this interpretation because the effect was weak at best, and case by case observation didn't support the Vertex having a suppressive effect.)

OTOH, planets that are on the Vertex axis (which really means that they are on the Prime Vertical) can make mundane aspects to planets on the horizon and meridian. This is a really unique situation: Being ON the Vx axis doesn't grant anything to the planet, but if it has the right geometric relationship to another planet on the horizon or meridian, the aspect is valid. (Like an aspect where one planet is exactly angular and the exact aspect it receives is from a non-angular planet.)

But you cite a Mars-Neptune PVP - I'll have to check that out. In the next post, I'll redo everything for Bolu. I don't think it had the highest fatalities, though: Wikipedia said that of the 8,000 fatalities, 1,800 occurred in Bolu and 6,000 occurred "between Merzifon and Niksar." Nonetheless, you found something so I should look at it.

PS - I couldn't figure out where you got the Mars-Neptune as a PVP square, then I saw what you were doing: You found Mars on Vertex, then took the ecliptical Mars-Neptune square. I would think that this was valid except I have two statistical studies showing me that Vertex contacts in ingresses either have no effect per se, or have an effect of suppressing the planet's nature (e.g., having close Venus and Jupiter contacts with Vx-Av for terrible events that show malefics clustered around the primary angles). Mars DOES have a PVP aspect, though, an opposition to Jupiter - and I'm looking further to see if there is anything more. (The math is a monster, I look forward to when TMSA does this. It takes me 10 minutes to calculate one aspect under current conditions.)

Jim Eshelman wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:04 am August 17, 1668 OS, late morning, North Anatolia, Ottoman Empire (Turkey), 49.9° N, 36.0° E

Redoing for Bolu, Turkey, which is quite a distance away from the epicenter. Using 11 AM North Anatolia time, or 8:36 UT.

The Capsolar becomes quite chaotic. The Cansolar, though (Quarter chart), which was terrible for the epicenter, is quite good for this outlying location. - Overall, the charts for this outlying location are quite poor.

I then worked up the Libsolar and Arisolar for daily showing, which I normally would do in the event of silent Capsolar showings for the day. For this secondary location, this is interesting! The Arisolar's transits and quotidian nails it - I'd give it a +3 score! But then the Libsolar is so contrary to the event, I'd call it a -3!

So I think we can say something did show for this distant, outlying area, but not like the clearer, more appropriate showing for the epicenter.

Year: Capsolar {+2}
(Though we still have the Venus-Saturn conjunction, which is important, this chart is much weakened compared to the epicenter because of the PVP aspects. Venus-Jupiter is closer than Venus-Saturn! But there is quite a mix. In the end, I'm not sure how to score this.)
Venus on MC 2°29'
Moon and Saturn more widely foreground
-- Venus-Jupiter sq 0°26' PVP
-- Jupiter-Saturn op 0°31' PVP
-- Venus-Saturn co 1°01' [PVP co is 0°57']
-- Venus-Mars sq 1°55' PVP
-- Mars-Jupiter op 2°21' PVP
-- Mars-Saturn sq 2°52' PVP

EXPLANATION: Azimuth positions:
177°43' Saturn
88°14' Jupiter
178°40' Venus
270°35' Mars

Bridge (Silent.)

Quarter: Cansolar {+2}
Moon on N 0°18'
Mars on WP-a 1°37'
Jupiter & Neptune barely foreground
-- Mars-Neptune sq 1°05' M
-- Ma/Ju on horizon 0°10'
-- Jupiter sq non-fore Venus 2°37', non-fore Uranus 0°57'
-- Mars sq non-fore Mercury 2°38'
Moon-Pluto sq 0°09' M

Month: Caplunar {0}
Mercury on IC 1°06'
Uranus widely foreground
-- Mercury-Mars sq. 0°13' PVP

Week: Arilunar {-1}
Venus on EP-a 0°13'
-- Mercury-Uranus sq 0°44' PVP
-- Venus-Uranus op 2°40' PVP

Day: Capsolar Quotidian & Transits (Silent.)
Day: Cansolar Quotidian & Transits (Silent.)

Day: Arisolar Quotidian & Transits {+3}
t Pluto sq p Moon 0°31'
p EP-a op s Sun
------------------------------
t Uranus co s MC 1°55'
t Mars sq s MC 1°12'
-- t Mars-Uranus sq 0°43'

Day: Libsolar Quotidian {-3}
t Jupiter sq p Moon 0°49'
p MC co t Venus 0°39'
p Asc op t Jupiter 1°48'

Jim wrote for the epicenter:

Day: Capsolar Quotidian {+2}
p Asc co t Mars 0°15', sq t Uranus 0°32'
-- Mars-Uranus sq 0°43'

I think our CapQ here is obviously the main daily par-excellent symbolism for the actual trigger of the force (Mars) with Uranus (sudden unaspected) which was unleased for this quake. Over the last two days with us looking at quakes it appears some type of Mars symbolism, mainly either with Uranus or Pluto is the signiture for these destructive quakes, but for sheer destruction we can't exclude Mars-Saturn symbolism. And of course their will be other important malefic symbolism symbolism for other psychological factors with the people living in the quake regions. Thanks Jim

SteveS wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:27 am Over the last two days with us looking at quakes it appears some type of Mars symbolism, mainly either with Uranus or Pluto is the signiture for these destructive quakes, but for sheer destruction we can't exclude Mars-Saturn symbolism. And of course their will be other important malefic symbolism symbolism for other psychological factors with the people living in the quake regions.

Yes, Mars is reliably a signal of destruction and force.

One surprise to me was when I had a chance to study the ten costliest disasters (dollar value of damages) vs. the ten deadliest (number of lives lost). Of the malefics, I expected Saturn for costliest and ether them but especially Mars for deadliest. Not true! It was just the opposite. Look at page 1,078 of the current version of SMA: For the ten costliest events, Mars ranked first (with Pluto coming close behind, then Saturn and Neptune following). For the ten deadliest (the next page), Saturn was the most angular. (For deadliest, when you combine angularity with Moon aspects, Saturn and Mars lead.

Obviously, they're both really big players in both scenarios.

The raw force of Mars shows in one kind of disaster after another, from the obvious fires and fiery explosions to hurricane, where raw force and destruction is the dominant experience. Hurricanes are an excellent example of your point above concerning daily timing, in fact: For hurricanes, Saturn and Neptune are the most common in the solar ingresses, with Mars being perfectly ordinary. However, the closer we get to the event, the more Mars plays a hand. For lunar ingresses, Mars is the most angular planet for hurricanes (though not statistically significant). For daily timing, Mars is again the champ (and, this time, statistically significant) - with Saturn a close second.

For earthquakes, Mars is definitely a part of the complex profile. Remember, there are three main types of earthquakes from an astrological perspective (though they often overlap): Straightforward "sake and break" seismic shift quakes, that are Saturn and Uranus; quakes (large or small) where the main character is that it makes people anxious or panic, and these are Neptune; and "raw destruction" quakes with lots of damage, which are Mars quakes.

Looking at Chapter 10 of SMA, last page (p 144), Saturn owns all three columns of angularity, Moon, and their combination. But Mars is one of the top three in the "combined" column, and Mars-Neptune is one of the two most common aspects on angles (Saturn-Pluto is the other).

Thanks Jim, I will pass these observations on to anybody I find who is interested at the conference.