Page 1 of 1
Mitigating Influences
Posted: Sat May 06, 2023 3:42 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Jul 23, 2012
Freya wrote:When interpreting a natal chart, what are the principal mitigating influences to look for when a someone has difficult aspects such as Mars cnj Saturn, Moon cnj pluto etc, which both point to "murdered rape victim"? I have a friend with this chart and I find myself at a loss as to what to say to her. Thanks
Re: Mitigating Influences
Posted: Sat May 06, 2023 3:44 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Every energy in the chart must manifest fully. Failure in this leads to undesirable effects, such as health problems, internal conflicts, etc. So, first off: We want every aspect to manifest fully.
Now, that doesn't mean we want a particular manifestation. So the first rule is: Intend to manifest the energy fully but, when possible, pick the manifestation. (For example, a friend with Sun, Mars, and Saturn in the immediate foreground of her recent Lunar Return could have been vulnerable to harsh treatment by her employer. She elected to manifest it by proactively working harder and more attentively. Nicer outcome!)
Don't take the statistics as saying "this will happen." Rather, the correct way to use them is to say, "Given that one particular manifestation of this aspect was in Certain Life Experiences, what can we learn about the root, underlying meaning of the aspect?" For example, having a certain set of aspects doesn't mean you will be a "murdered rape victim" - but it probably does mean that you have some set of character traits that also distinguish rape victims who were murdered from those who were not. It sometimes takes considerable reflection to discern exactly what those are. Using the Mars-Saturn as an example, this aspect tends to mean a life of struggle and conflict, and while it shows quite commonly in the charts of both murdered and not-murdered rape victims, it also is extremely rare in the charts of suicides: The key distinction there is likely the persistent struggling in the face of hardships.
Re: Mitigating Influences
Posted: Sat May 06, 2023 3:45 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Freya wrote:Thank you for this explanation. I have never heard of this before.
Character is destiny. The chart shows the patterns of character. Any destiny arises from that.
Is this a Sidereal chart? (Data isn't listed so I have to guess. It looks like about July 5, 1984.)
The main chart features: Gemini Sun, Virgo Moon. Sun is distantly conjunct Venus and more closely trine a close Mars-Saturn conjunction in Libra (especially close to the Mars). Moon-Venus square is close. Mercury exactly squares Pluto. Nothing in the immediate foreground.
What especially jumps out is that this person is mentally quick, agile, with significant curiosity and dominant intellect. Yet also there is acute sensitivity - almost too much of it - a feeling of vulnerability, of feeling others' emotions and intentions very acutely.
From this point, a lot depends on the early upbringing, because a core issue in this chart is TRUST: If there is a basic distrust of the world (and the people in it), then there is going to be a persistent effort to shield oneself, pull back, develop nervous habits and self-doubts - use a basically acerbic or conflictual personality style to keep people at a distance. OTOH if there IS basic trust of the world and its people, then the mind is capable of shrewd, strategic accomplishment, much hard work. and some distinctive area of genius.
The Uranus-Pluto square in space is dancing around this person's Jupiter, so there are significant changes in status, esteem, relationship to prosperity, perhaps vocation all occurring now. Neptune has been squaring the Ascendant which tends to exacerbate the sensitivity and vulnerability for a year or two, etc. - see the section on TRANSITS on this forum for something more detailed.
Re: Mitigating Influences
Posted: Sat May 06, 2023 3:46 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Freya wrote:THANK YOU SO MUCH JIM!!!!!!
Yes, this chart is Sidereal, fagan-Bradley anaymasa I would not touch tropical with a bargepole. I did not put my friend's details to respect her privacy, but yes, you are close. Your description to me fits, as she is a member of Mensa. So the Mars-Saturn in this case would manifest more as insecurity rather than being the victim of violence. Where do you see "trust", in which planets? And prosperity? My friend has been really broke throughout her life but now she seems to be doing better. I assume when you said nothing in the immediate foreground it means that there is nothing particularly good or bad about this chart? I see Uranus near the IC as well as an interesting feature, as well as the fact that 2013 is her Saturn return, that is why you say "changes happening now"?
Re: Mitigating Influences
Posted: Sat May 06, 2023 3:46 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Freya wrote:So the Mars- Saturn in this case would manifest more as insecurity rather than being the victim of violence.
Partly, although was also seeing it (in the untrusting context) as a consequence of a primarily mental person (and a double-Spoke) with specifically the Virgo Moon (hyper-sensitive) and the close Moon-Venus major aspect (strong, vulnerable-feeling emotional responses).
Where do you see "trust", in which planets?
It's not in the chart - it's in the life. An astrologer needs to understand developmental psychology. I was saying that, depending on whether a basic trust of people and the world is present (from early development) will be the factor that primarily determines how this chart unfolds.
I assume when you said nothing in the immediate foreground it means that there is nothing particularly good or bad about this chart? I see Uranus near the IC as well as an interesting feature
I meant that nothing is proximate to the angles. Uranus isn't near the IC - you drew this in Equal House, so it looks closer. The IC is actually 1 Scorpio, and Uranus is about half a house away, too far to be considered close to the angles. (Think 7-10 degrees max.)
Re: Mitigating Influences
Posted: Sat May 06, 2023 3:47 pm
by Jim Eshelman
Freya wrote:aha! Now it makes sense. Would the topocentric house system be best to use, or Campanus rather than equal? I like to experiment to see which one works best.
The following is probably a much better chart than the previous one. For this other friend's natal chart I used the Campanus house system (always sidereal, fagan/bradley anaymasa). What jumps out here is that she has not got many aspects (at least not compared to the previous chart), and Saturn is fairly close to the ascendant, as well as the part of fortune on the descendant. My friend was telling me the other day how nothing in her life came easily to her,and that she had to struggle for everything in her life and that her life has been constant uphill battle with depression, eating disorders, unlucky love relationships etc. Can this kind of hardship be seen in the saturn-pluto conjunction? I am not sure whether this shows anywhere else in the chart, but I am a novice so chances are that I am wrong in my findings. To me this one appears to be a much "luckier" chart than the previous one, despite of what my friend says
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1889 ... 3at235.png
Re: Mitigating Influences
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:04 am
by KatyMayStrong
Natally, I have both Moon/Pluto in Virgo 6* above the ascendant square Mars/Saturn in Gemini on the MC. Feeling a bit twitchy now
