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Understanding Venus' Fundamental Needs (meditation)

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:36 am
by Jim Eshelman
The proposal is that everybody spend about one week on the following meditation, keeping a record of your results and sharing them here. Enjoy!


Fundamental Need of VENUS: Affection needs: loving and being loved, giving and receiving nurturing. Affiliation (including separation and rejection), sex, shared play.
  • Ensure that you understand the words of the definition.
  • Identify this specified need in yourself. Recognize that you have it. Reflect on how it manifests in you at a simple, basic level, and then as secondary motivations and behaviors that arise from the simpler ones.
  • How strong is this need in you compared to other needs? Compared to its strength in other people? How has it expressed itself in you at various stages of your life (from earliest memories through later life stages)?
  • Have you been able to satisfy this need? Or has it gone largely unsatisfied?
  • What are the worst things in your personality and behavior that arise from this need (and from succeeding or failing at satisfying it)? What are the best things?
  • As far as possible, answer these questions about other people you know well.
  • For this week or longer, as you meet and interact with other people, observe the presence of this specific need in yourself and in the other(s) during the interaction. What can you observe in terms of both how you share the need with them and how differences in the need’s intensity, your psychological maturity, and other factors produce different expressions.
  • Please share the results of this exploration on this thread and feel free to engage in such discussion as arises.
  • Was this exercise valuable to you? If so, what made it valuable? If not, what would have made it more valuable?

Re: Understanding Venus' Fundamental Needs (meditation)

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:20 am
by Veronica
I've been really struggling with this one.

I had the thought that Venus is my weakest need.
every other planet in my chart has either an angular strong need for expression...Sun, moon, Jupiter, Neptune, Pluto...Mundane Saturn Aspect seems to ride behind this but still finds easier expression
or find expression via sign....My Gemini Asc (plus an Angular Pluto in Virgo) lends to my Mercury needs. My MC and Aquarius Sun lends to Uranus needs getting expression . Even Mars gets a boost with a Scorpio Stellium.
Even though my Venus is in Jupiters sign Saggitarius and part of an important midpoint structure of Angular planets I find it hard to prioritize Venus needs and meet them.

It's almost as if I am saying to myself, there is too much hard work to do, too little time in the day, to many people whose lives are utter hell....how dare you need a new pair of sneakers, your old ones still fit and if you just give them a super cleaning they will do the job.

After musing about my personal neglect of expressing/giving affection, and receiving affection I felt as if my Venus needs get better expression when I am acting young, being totally self expressive (ie singing and dancing in my own way) in stead of the serious adult who needs to grind and work and make money and do a million chores a day. That adult ignores my need for hugs, and hand holding and cuddling.
This past week Venus transited in Aquarius and I felt much better about receiving affection from others, my cousin came over and gave me a pretty best and fleece and it was so nice to be thought of.

When I went back to work on Monday after being out a whole week, one of my students whispered in my ear how happy she was to see me and how she missed me. She is a beautiful lil girl, venus to the max and I was so touched, I told her. I was sorry I got sick and was out and that I had missed her too. I had. I missed all 16 of those crazy hyper 4 year olds who wont lay down and take a nap promptly at 130 to 245....

Re: Understanding Venus' Fundamental Needs (meditation)

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:11 am
by Veronica
I am really disappointed in my post on Venus. I thought that I had a fair groking but when I was done and hit submit I felt it was poorly explored, and even more poorly expressed.
I felt a part of me say....this is where "they" want to hear about about The Dove part of you, the sweet gentle loving caresses and kisses, what you like sexually to give and receive.....and well I do have an abundance of kindness and softness and loving affection to give and receive. Yet that is so deeply personal, so deeply intimate, sacred feeling in a real way that it's not something I am willing to share publicly. The moments when my Venus needs are expressed are in one on one situations, where I felt safe to let my guard down, and be vulnerable and open and receptive and honest.
Anywho....to help me get a better grasp on this lesson and truly work the meditation I found that I needed to back to the beginning and reread Taking the Kid Gloves Off again and see just where in my development Venus arose and how I attempted to integrate that ergie into my unfolding character.
I am still working this lesson and have a bit to go before I feel adequate to respond about it, but I thought if others were struggling with how to share thier Venus needs, that they too may benefit from tereading that tome as well.
I will add for now that at one point in exploring this need in me I was struck by the recollection of my father telling me to suppress my tomboy ways, to act like a lady, to be the embodiment of The Dove I was called, even saying that he was going to send me away to miss prissys school for ladys, or to the convent. As an old woman thinking of that childhood interaction, a story came to mind about how we humans have a choice between the dove and the serpent and to choose wisely...
and I thought that maybe there is not one right answer, that maybe there is a time to be a dove and a time to be a serpent and a big ol bugger off for trying to make me choose between two creatures who each have gifts and talents and wonderfulness, maybe I'm a serpent with wings, or a dove with scales.

Re: Understanding Venus' Fundamental Needs (meditation)

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:20 am
by Jim Eshelman
Knowing details of my horoscope make this task very difficult (It's better if someone isn't yet familiar with their own chart and isn't trying to relate it to their chart, just to themselves.) After this many years of familiarity with my chart, and especially with having thought through this process deeply during the writing process, it's impossible not to already have most of these thoughts framed.

So, regrettably, everything I write in this post is written already knowing that Venus is my weakest planet. It's precisely on a cadent cusp under the earth and in the sign of its detriment. Of all of my background planets, it represents the weakest needs not only because of its 0% angularity score but because, as a Virgo, my basic template is non-venereal (unless something else in the chart contradicts that, which it does not).

This is a fitting, accurate assessment of me. While I have all the same basic needs that everybody else has, my affection needs are pretty much the least demanding of the standard needs stack.
Fundamental Need of VENUS: Affection needs: loving and being loved, giving and receiving nurturing. Affiliation (including separation and rejection), sex, shared play.
The question of this suggested medication is pretty simple. Regardless of any other idea I might have about Venus or anything else I might think I know about it (put all that aside!), how strong and demanding in me are those various human needs that psychologists collate under the title, "affection needs." These are primarily the need to love and be loved, to give and receive nurturing, and to affiliate with others for its own sake.

These needs are close to non-existent. They are made much stronger with specific people - for example, my Venus is on the angle of both of my wives and I always felt strong needs to love, be loved, nurture, be nurtured, and simply be with them. More life experiences supportive of affection needs came (flooded!) into my life when I moved to an area where my Venus was closely angular. I've learned to navigate social processes and employ social tactics the way every high-functioning adult has to (I suppose because my Venus is interestingly and mostly supportively aspected), but the need for these things has always been low.

In fact, one fruit of this meditation has been clarifying for me just how much what passes for social needs is mercurial - one of my strongest need sets. Much of social exploration stems from curiosity, from thinking there may be something I don't know that would be interesting to learn. It's also task-driven (or, perhaps, project driven): For example, one might argue against the above observations that I've created various systems and organized various teachings to benefit people. However, from "inside" that process, I'm pretty sure it was never for other people at all. Rather, there was a sense that the universe needed such-and-so a thing and I was in the place (and perhaps called) to provide it. "Yes," one might think, "but why did the universe need it if not for other people? Who was going to benefit?" My answer would be that, mostly, that was never a question. It wasn't for anybody or for any particular reason other than a conviction that it had to be forged and shaped.

I think I don't take human beings all that seriously. (I mean: I do and I don't.) When I look at the thoughts and processes my mind actually navigates in considering them (in general, which I contrast with specific other people such as my wife), I realize that I've never felt compelled to decide whether other human beings actually exist. Perhaps they are all my projections and other dream objects. Or if they exist, I don't really differentiate human beings that much from any other living thing. "Human" just happens to be the species into which I was born at the moment, but, for example, I don't justify eating meat because humans are superior to other life forms: Rather, I just think we're all one organism, one interconnected network of life-objects, and there is a marvelous system whereby all of eat each other - each part of the single living organism helping build and sustain other parts.

And stuff like that.

Because of the social structure of human society (society being necessarily social, of course), one can't get along very well or be effective without learning and executing social rituals (Jupiter) and games (Venus). I'm long accustomed to this reality though, at one point, I think I found it a tiny bit of a bother - a nuisance. While I'm not eager for people to dislike me (though I know many do, and have to consider that their view of me isn't necessarily any of my business), I also have no innate need for them to like me. I have secondary needs for them to like me, but these secondary needs (besides the survival implications) are primarily tied to Mercury and perhaps Jupiter. That is, the real compelling need for me is to learn and teach, to organize systems that give a framework to knowledge I consider vital, and to produce something based on all of this that likely will have persistence and consequences. But to do that, it is (perhaps unfortunately?) necessary that people like you (or rabidly dislike you - the ideas are likely to have persistence either way). So one uses tools that nature provides and get the job done.
Identify this specified need in yourself. Recognize that you have it. Reflect on how it manifests in you at a simple, basic level, and then as secondary motivations and behaviors that arise from the simpler ones.
Yes, the need is there. I recognize it. I recognize it more easily with particular people (doing my Venus-Pluto thing of "few yet special connections"), but I also realize the need abides, often quietly. (Marion is leaving town for a few days, while will leave a significant hole in my sense of the universe being right. I'll likely respond to this by a combination of throwing myself into work and doting on my cat.)

The most obvious secondary manifestations of this need are those that have furthered my connection to the most important women across my life.
How strong is this need in you compared to other needs? Compared to its strength in other people? How has it expressed itself in you at various stages of your life (from earliest memories through later life stages)?
It is surely the weakest in me of the ten fundamental needs. Even as weak as my Saturn is, the instinct to make something is stronger.

Compared to other people? I think most people have this need much stronger than I have it. (That's mathematically necessary. It's also seemingly confirmed by the fact that we have the social structure that we have.)

At different stages? Through adolescence, living still at my birthplace, this created more chaos and confusion (though I think a majority of people are chaotic and confused in Venus matters during adolescence). At a time when developmentally I should have been exploring this more (by human averages), its expression had so little energy that it felt blocked. Some combination of moving to where it was angular and simply getting older (entering my 20s) broke it loose, provided different opportunities, allowed me to mature and develop skills and confidence, etc. These became resources, or tools in my toolbox.
Have you been able to satisfy this need? Or has it gone largely unsatisfied?
I have definitely satisfied it to the extent it has demanded, and far more. My adult life (again, I think this is because of where I live astrologically) has been filled with loving relationships.
What are the worst things in your personality and behavior that arise from this need (and from succeeding or failing at satisfying it)? What are the best things?
Not a lot that can be attributed to this need specifically. (I see interweaving patterns, e.g., confusing this with the hungers natural to my lunar needs.) Whenever I find myself caring seriously whether anybody actually likes me (and there isn't an immediate practical necessity for it), I know something is off, I'm responding to some old reactivity that isn't related to the present events. I have been excessively mild to retain a connection when the managerial task really required being stern and negatively decisive.
For this week or longer, as you meet and interact with other people, observe the presence of this specific need in yourself and in the other(s) during the interaction. What can you observe in terms of both how you share the need with them and how differences in the need’s intensity, your psychological maturity, and other factors produce different expressions.
Social connection - most of which for me is at work - does seem to boil down to both of us having a need to just make things a little nicer for both of us by our enacting gracious, positive social behaviors. It's part of what makes the world work (a big part). Even people who don't have a strong personal need for this sort of thing do usually practice it for practical reasons.

Re: Understanding Venus' Fundamental Needs (meditation)

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:14 am
by Veronica
my Venus needs part 3

How strong is this need in you compared to other needs?

After much back and forth I think this might be my strongest need instead of my weakest.
I say this because while it feels like my lunar and solar and Pluto needs inside me are oh so strong and in charge, it is my Venus needs that I actually purposely act upon and manifest into the outer world. It is as if the other needs all are internally competing for the number one spot (and sometimes one of them appears to have the blue ribbon) but how I actually interact and dance if you will, comes from Venus popping up and saying " well, that's all good and well, but how do we take that and turn it into a loving, nurturing expression and make things better?, how can I take that Lunar need of hunger and not resort to primal savage murder just to feed or a Solar need of me me me, or Plutos need to isolate?"
if I cant figure out a way to act with love and kindness to others, to act from my Venus needs, then I find I just dont act or participate or engage.

.....

Compared to its strength in other people?

I think some people's Venus needs are much stronger then mine, and I think so people's Venus need are much weaker.

.....

How has it expressed itself in you at various stages of your life (from earliest memories through later life stages)?

It seems to be the same type of expression but to different magnitudes. Soft, gentle, calm, steady, consistent, warm, relaxing, inviting, pleasant, ideal.
(noting here that I have yet to honestly explore my Angular Neptune needs, which I hold as a higher form of Love and Loving expression)


• Have you been able to satisfy this need? Or has it gone largely unsatisfied?

Yes, Skillfully sometimes and much less skillfully others, more indicative to the social situation I was in, ie in middle school and beginning High school I feel I lost connection and really struggled to be kind to some classmates, especially the super rich kids and girls who wore white shoes.

• What are the worst things in your personality and behavior that arise from this need (and from succeeding or failing at satisfying it)? What are the best things?

I need to treat each individual lifeform (bug, bud, bird, brother, parasite, microbe, virus, bacteria) as an individual emergence of a unique point of light, worthy of respect, admiration, value, love, and respect. The worst thing about that seems to be the pain I feel when someone snaps a branch off my friend tree without a care, the sadness of coming across brother bucks headless body while hiking, of wishing all the laboratory animals freedom.
It sucks watching our beautiful family be broken, and hurt and killed in a seemingly thoughtless careless senseless act of primal savagery.

The best? I get so filled up with loving nurturing thoughts that my hands tingle with warmth and feel like light is coming through me like an effervescent hot tub of pure love.

Re: Understanding Venus' Fundamental Needs (meditation)

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:05 am
by SteveS
8-)

Re: Understanding Venus' Fundamental Needs (meditation)

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 11:18 pm
by Venus_Daily
Jim Eshelman wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:36 am How strong is this need in you compared to other needs? Compared to its strength in other people? How has it expressed itself in you at various stages of your life (from earliest memories through later life stages)?
Have you been able to satisfy this need? Or has it gone largely unsatisfied?
I would say this need is extremely strong in myself, sometimes, overwhelming having a close Moon/Venus mundane square. I never ever went through that phase of "boys are gross eww". I remember having crushes as early as kindergarten. When I was a child, people used to comment how feminine I was in complete contrast to my mother, who is a double Capricorn with a rising Uranus. School didn't interest me much, although I am highly intelligent, I loved interacting with others a lot, lot more. Up until my mid 30s, I wanted to give birth to and raise a young boy.
I also can't completely discount my Jupiter/Venus square, which lends confidence to my feminity.

In other people, like my mother, who has Venus exact conjunct her Sagittarius Descending, I noticed she's a very artistic, and creative person. Very child like. She loves the Autumnal and Invernal holidays because she loves decorating and celebrating. As far as human interaction and nurturing spirit, my mother loves having friends and had extremely low and desperate standards when it came to men. It really felt as a child, she put those men ahead of me and was incredibly distant from me until she got older.
Jim Eshelman wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:36 am Have you been able to satisfy this need? Or has it gone largely unsatisfied?
Largely unsatisfied, my relationship with other women is extremely complicated. I've often found women to be needlessly antagonistic, except for the current group of women I'm working with right now. My relationships with men, at least friendship wise are fine. But in my romantic relationships with men, I've always attracted men with afflicted Venuses, and I have a feeling it's because I remind them of their mothers, even precognitively, when they haven't even gotten to know me yet. Either way, it always ends in heartbreak. Sometimes, I suspect it's because I'm just not attractive enough.
I'm not very artistic, but I am extremely nurturing.
Jim Eshelman wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:36 am What are the worst things in your personality and behavior that arise from this need (and from succeeding or failing at satisfying it)? What are the best things?
Jim Eshelman wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:36 am What are the worst things in your personality and behavior that arise from this need (and from succeeding or failing at satisfying it)? What are the best things?

What is the worse thing that arises from this need? Depression, anxiety, never feeling attractive enough for reciprocal love and romance. Horrible body dysmorphia. Having this extensive well of nurturing love and no one to share it with. Feeling inferior.

I do feel like my life would be different and this need could be fulfilled if I was just attractive.

Re: Understanding Venus' Fundamental Needs (meditation)

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:30 am
by Veronica
Interesting to me that I feel that woman are antagonistic because they need to be. I cant think of a time I was ever antagonistic without feeling a dire need to be so, and from what I've seen of the women in my local community in real life...peaceful as pie until you stick your thumb in it.
How interesting our different aspects and natal charts give such vastly different ideas and perspectives. Thanks for sharing your thought Venus, communication is the way we work through things and expand our knowledge.